So .... it seems the gubmint's gunna show us the plane that hit the pentag

[Stinky The Clown]

I just heard a blurb on MSNBC that, now that the Moussaoui trial is over, they're gunna release the tape of the plane hitting the Pentagram, in compliance with Judicial Watch's FOIA suit.

I'm glad we're gunna finally get the straight scoop. :::::coughbullshitcough:::::

[Clark2008]

1. Really?

When is this miraculous event supposed to take place? Did they say when we can expect to stream it across our PCs? Or when the corporate news media needed it to help rachet up the Bush cause for going to war in Iran?

[Stinky The Clown]

6. "When is this miraculous event supposed to take place?" Per MSNBC .....

.... today, sometime after 1.00 PM

[Clark2008]

9. Interesting

I will view it, of course, but I'm still suspicious of the timing of its release.

It bites having to be so suspicious of everything because of this administration.

Thanks.

[LeftNYC]

2. the day Karl gets indicted...nt

[donsu]

3. well, they may, show us a picture - they have had a long time to 'fix'

a picture

[partylessinOhio]

4. I want to see photos of the "plane" that evaporated into thin air.

[flobee1]

5. Is it going to be

video or cartoon drawings, like they brought to the UN

[Marnieworld]

7. Maybe pantomime or puppets

With someone making crashing noises with their mouth.

Grain of salt.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. I hear they ones who will be relasing the film are also the ones

who bought the Jackson Puppet Theater popsicle stick puppets from Olbermann on eBay.

I'm pretty sure I heard that.

Someplace.

[partylessinOhio]

8. If it was an inside bomb job they will show us nothing.

We have been living in the cartoon world of Bush for over five years now.

[rock]

10. And now, re-enacted by the bunnies n/t

[EminenceFront]

12. People are aware that numerous eyewitnesses on the freeway...

...that goes by the Pentagon said they saw the plane hit the building, aren't they?

Or are they?

:shrug:

[Tansy_Gold]

13. Welcome to DU, EF, and yes, and no.

Some are aware of the witnesses, some choose to dismiss/deny them.

DUers are no different from anyone else -- generally, we tend to believe what we want to believe and disregard the rest.


Tansy Gold, with a nod to S & G.

[EminenceFront]

15. Thanks

"...generally, we tend to believe what we want to believe and disregard the rest."

That's good to know. :hi:

[SteppingRazor]

24. Ain't that a Simon and Garfunkel reference? n/t

[Tansy_Gold]

30. Uh, yeah.

Which is why I signed myself,

"Tansy Gold, with a nod to S & G,"

their line being, iirc. . . .


"'Til a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest."

[Clark2008]

14. We are, but we're also aware that many said that it

wasn't large enough to be a commercial jet.

Some witnesses even said it was a much smaller jet with American Airlines markings - made them think it was some puddle-hopper rather than a transcontinental commerical airliner.

:hi: Welcome to DU.

PS - Cool name. Are you a Who fan? Pete Townshend fan, perhaps?

[alarimer]

22. I don't understand the conspiracy theories regarding this plane

The air traffic controllers who watched it disappear when it lost contact surely knew which plane it was, the size of it and which airline it belonged to. After all, only 4 planes disappeared that day. All the rest were accounted for. In addition to numerous eyewitness acounts (I even saw a video of a plane flying extremely low next to the freeway). Also, while I don't know exactly the model of the plane that hit the pentagon, if it was fairly large, it would have had probably over 100 passengers. Small commuter jets or turboprops can't carry that many, which would leave a whole lot of people who boarded a plane in the morning unaccounted for. What did they do, vanish into thin air? It makes no sense whatsoever. Airlines have pasenger manifests, as well as lists of the crew. Now, except for the terrorists, who presumably used assumed names, they accounted for everyone on those 4 planes.

This conspiracy theory is pure bunk. I can almost buy that Flight 93 was shot down. But I cannot buy any theory about the Pentagon plane as anything other than a deliberate crash.

[windbreeze]

21. Eyewitness accounts....

ARE always questionable...and on that note, it seems as though there was quite a bit of disagreement on WHAT EXACTLY those different eyewitnesses HAD seen that day...I wonder how many of them would have been aware, that there are missiles in existence, that with a clever little paint job, could have been made to look exactly like an airplane, and that those particular missiles, have wings and a tail section just like an airplane...

I know I heard or read accounts of people who said it looked more like a commuter plane (not a 757 or whateverthehellitwassupposedtohavebeen)....that are about the same size as some of those missiles I mentioned...weren't there also those witnesses who swore it WAS a missile? weren't there also witnesses that swore they smelled cordite? or explosives? How about the ones who disagreed about the way it sounded?....think of it this way...by the time "whateveritwas" went over the people traveling on the freeway, and hit the building itself...how could anyone have been so sure what they had seen, in the resulting confusion?? HOW?? Whateveritwas, was moving awful damned fast...and the sheer shock of the whole thing certainly could/would have the ability to distort a person's memory...HOW did the FBI get to those cameras and tapes so quickly, in several locations, from a gas station across the street, to hotels blocks away?? Like they had been pre positioned to confiscate them... What also strikes me, is that a plane that size, supposedly coming in that low...did NOT rip up the grounds in front of the building, or take out many light poles like it should have, for coming in as low as it did...in my book, the whole thing is awful damned strange...
wb

[NightOwwl]

16. Gotta get the sheeple back in line.

Get those poll numbers back up.

9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11
Terra! Terra! Terra!
9/11 9/11 9/11 9/11
Terra! Terra! Terra!

God, these people are so transparent.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

29. yup.......This smells like a Rove.......

distract the media, make people remember 9/11 and thats why Bush is spying on you....so you dont end up like the "people" who died on 9/11

[cyberpj]

17. MSNBC says it's not full motion, a sequence of still frames -

And you don't clearly see the plane!

Why aren't they showing the real confiscated video?

commentators saying this won't satisfy conspiracy theorists - "nothing will".

[Clark2008]

19. Um - even the "official" version of 9/11 is a conspiracy

Do the talking heads not know what the word means?

The word conspiracy means a secret agreement between two or more people to perform an unlawful act - what do they think 9/11 was - even the "official" version concedes that point. Geesch.

[The Magistrate]

23. As You Are Doubtless Well Aware, Ma'am

Colloquial usage often differs from strict definition. That is one of the things that makes translation an art rather than a science, as any consultaion of the "Babelfish" programs will quickly demonstrate.

In colloquial usage, understood by everyone current in the usage of the language here, "conspiracy theory" conveys a meaning somewhat different than stating that something was a "conspiracy". All acknowledge, after all, that conspiracy is an element in human affairs, and people often conspire towards some particular end, with and without a successful outcome to their endeavors.

The usage "conspiracy theory" refers to claims of conspiracies of extravagant scope and scale, generally of a counter-intuitive nature, and generally involving a claim that what everyone knows or saw to occur is in fact a false front that a small band of initiates have managed somehow to penetrate behind and discover the "Truth" of the matter.

Thus, a claim that a band of religious fanatics plotted to execute an attack against the United States, and succeeded at it, falls far short of being a "conspiracy theory" as the term is colloquially used. It fails the test of extravagent scope and scale, of counter-intuitive nature, and of being false to the immediately evident facts of the occurance. It is, in short, a fairly normal sort of event, distinguished only by its degree of success from any number of embryonic plottings that fail of fruition.

A claim that no jetliner struck the Pentagon, and that in fact a U.S. military unit fired a missile at the building, for instance, meets every one of these tests. Any conspiracy that could produce such a result must be of extravagant scope and scale, for it must account for the disappearance of a jet-liner and its passengers, for the subornation of U.S. military and security personnel to the purpose of a deadly attack on the headquarters of the U.S. military, and for the continued loyalty and silence of all participants in the operation, among other items. It is certainly counter-intuitive, as the turning of a country's military and security assets to a deadly attack on the country's principal military headquarters is hardly what people would naturally expect to occur; there are no proved instances of such a thing in recorded human history. It is certainly a claim that what is immediately evident about the event is all a false front that a small band of initiates have managed to penetrate and discover a "Truth" concerning that no one but themselves can see.

[Clark2008]

31. Oh, I know what it's come to mean, believe me, I do.

It's just - even though I realize language is dynamic - hate it when words become misused from their original meaning when that meaning is still in use.

For example, the word, "anti-Semitic" and it's use against those Arabs against the government of Israel. The problem, of course, is that Arabs are ALSO Semitic, therefore, technically, you'd be hard-pressed to say the vast majority are against themselves. However, in the vernacular, the word anti-Semitic only applies to anyone who dislikes Jewish people.

The words "conspiracy" and "Semitic" are still in use in their original form and, therefore, makes the uses of "conspiracy theory" and "anti-Semitic" seem inappropriate from the prevailing context.

(BTW, you're always so polite. I guess that's why you're The Magistrate. :hi: )

[ElsewheresDaughter]

18. they deny that video exists from gas station and hotel roofs across ...

from the pentagon....absolutely dening their exsistance...i recall the people who worked at these establishments stating that with in minutes the FBI came and confiscated these videos .


so what we'll be seeing is doctored pentagon footage of the same tape in the parking lot that we have all seen already

[cyberpj]

20. Yep. newspeople said we've already seen this. nt

[ElsewheresDaughter]

27. they should just show this clip that was made on a PC...hahaha

[SpiralHawk]

25. Bush and Cronies couldn't even muster a pop gun to defend the Pentagon

when they had over an hour's notice.

What is Bush's excuse for that? No doubt he blames Bill Clinton, since all commander AWOL is capable of is whining and blaming others for his own failures.

[Vickers]

26. Is this the same sequence of photos that was leaked, like, 2 years ago?

:shrug:

You know, the ones where you can't see SHIT?

[ima_sinnic]

28. when they show the pieces that are supposedly laid out in a hangar

somewhere, then I will believe.
until then, I have smelled something very very fishy about the "Pentagon-hitting plane."
And this was before I learned the detail, today, that FBI confiscated all available videotapes WITHIN MINUTES. I knew they'd been confiscated, but not how quickly and that there were actually several.
If they're being so "generous" with the fake film, they could at least show fake pieces of plane in a hangar somewhere.