An Army Rangers account of Iraq

[fun n serious]

Snip-

Jessie Macbeth blows the lid off that story. Macbeth is a former US Army Ranger, who served in Iraq for 16 months before being wounded and ultimately discharged. His squad did night raids, using the same techniques the Marines are accused of, 4 or 5 times a night for many months. Macbeth, who is now a member of "Iraq Veterans Against the War," was interviewed for the public access TV show "Indymedia Presents." His story is available here: www.peacefilms.org. In this interview Jessie describes killing children to make the parents talk. He describes one episode where his squad responded to the much-reported incident in Falluja where 4 US mercenaries were killed and hung from a bridge. Shortly after Iraqis killed the mercenaries, according to Macbeth, his squad of Rangers gunned down Iraqis praying inside a mosque on a holy day, then hung some of the bodies from rafters, and defaced the mosque with graffiti. Macbeth's hand held the smoking gun, and his testimony in this interview shows clearly that the Marines who are now in trouble for very similar actions are not the exception to US tactics in Iraq, but represent only one in many incidents of war crimes.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=20060521&articleId=2482

http://www.peacefilms.org/

[elehhhhna]

1. who killed children to make their parents talk? can he ID them?

[IndyOp]

7. Did you listen to the interview? He is saying it is standard procedure. nt

[fun n serious]

8. He says he did. He killed children.

NT

[IndyOp]

2. Welcome to DU - FNS - Your post is exactly the reason I would

like to have a 'pacificists' forum here at DU. There is no such thing as a good war -- any and all wars will result in atrocities like the one described by MacBeth.

Every soldier is a cog in a machine designed to kill - whether or not that soldier serves in combat.

Soldiers do not keep us safe, they put us in danger. What they do to the Iraqi's and Afghani's and Nicaraugan's and Panamanian's and Vietnamese -- it all blows back.

On Edit: Important! I fully understand that the leadership is to blame. And, if no one joined, then the leadership could not lead them into hell and turn them into cold-blooded killers.

[fun n serious]

5. Thank you.

I am in total agreement with you. I hope this young man does not get any backlash for speaking out.

[Doctor_J]

3. Is this the good news that the media never reports?

Someone should ask Smirk about this if he ever takes questions again.

[Sinti]

4. K&R - People need to watch this. War is too damn sanitized...

This is the hell we're putting both our soldiers and the Iraqi people through, for NOTHING. The only thing that's come of this is the enrichment of the already too rich.

[IndyOp]

6. MacBeth stutters through the whole video --

Below is a rough paraphrase of what he said - I just typed fast while he talked. I missed a lot and probably typed some things wrong. Most of what I have here, MacBeth said...

I got sh-sh-shipped off to Oson. Once I got there (Baghdad) the whole aspect of the country changed. Our job over there is to strike fear in the heart of Iraqis. Do whatever it takes to make them fear you. T-t-t-o be brutal. We have our own purpose. We aren't there for them. The Geneva Convention ain't nothing but crap. I thought we were going over the liberate the people. Operation Iraqi Freedom - it was more like Operation Iraqi Slaughter. Most of them were families hiding down there but we were told Saddam's forces were down there, a lot of them were dead, but a lot of them weren't dead. Smell of burnt flesh, people crying. They thought we were there for them. Seeing people lying around and rotting. S-s-s-some of them that weren't wounded very bad, we had to kill them. After witnessing that it changed me. I feel like I lost a lot of myself. W-w-we would go in, there would be an average of 5-6 people that were hurt just a little bit, they avoided the main blast because they hid behind something, a lot of time they knew there weren't insurgents in there, I think they said that to make it look like we were doing the right thing. The insurgents did a lot of jacked-up stuff to the American soldiers. People have a right to fight for their families. I don't blame them. I would do the same thing. By not speaking out I feel like I am betraying all my boys that died. We would do night raids, we would have them on their knees, if the man of the house did not answer we would shoot the youngest kid in the head. An average joe, trying to support his family. We would start killing off his family until he told us something. I didn't feel anything. I just wanted to do my job. I had to make myself hate them in order to do my job. I had to make myself not think of them as people, think of them as a target, so I could complete my job. I didn't keep counted, b-b-b-y my hand alone there were probably over 200 people taken out - that is a rough estimate. They'd be close enough they'd actually feel the hot from my rifle on their forehead. We did stuff that scared them first. A couple of guys would fondle their wife just to piss them off to get them to say something. We'd do that to several houses, slaughtering 30-40 people a night, women and children. I was trained in Ranger school. I wanted to fight other elite soldiers, but I had to fight women and kids and other people who don't know how to fight. I am disappointed in my government, but I didn't say anything because I would've been locked up, court-martialed. We'd go into a mosque (infiltrate ahead of time) a couple of hundred people would be praying and we'd start slaughtering them taking them out. We'd burn their bodies like they did to us, hang them by the rafters of the mosque and we'd write stuff like "Allah kiss my ass" and we'd leave a few bodies in the street. My country turned me into this very same thing that I'm fighting against. We were the terrorists, fighting a whole country that didn't do nothing wrong to us. I feel the death of my battle buddies and my suffering and of all the soldiers over there it was for crap. It was for nothing. I speak out to justify their deaths. But you know a lot of Iraqi's didn't want us there. We shot at protesters, we were told they had weapons, we took them out - we didn't find any weapons afterwards. Kids throwing rocks, people burning signs - OUR JOB WAS KILL, KILL, KILL. Red blood makes the green grass grow - we were there to make the green grass grow in the desert. I'm ashamed of being there. I'm ashamed of taking part in one of the hugest, most scandolous things of our government. Iraq is... a lot of people are dying, I lost a lot of buddies myself. A lot of people are coming home messed up in the head. THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS DOESN"T CARE. There's homeless Vietnam Veterans, homeless Gulf War veterans, homeless Iraq war veterans. The DEATH TOLL OF IRAQIS IS NOT WHAT THEY SAY IN THE NEWS - IT IS 100,000's OF PEOPLE. I've seen big old huge ground pits - how can they hide all them deaths, all of them innocent people. It is like MASS GENOCIDE. Our country has become terrorists, that is why people hate us. I'm tired of Iraq, I'm tired of turning on the news and seeing all the deaths of all these people because I took part in that. I remember this one time - it was after we raided a house, a lady was holding her 3 kids, one of them was about 1 year old, the others maybe 5 or 7 - she had blood on her hands. I saw the first one, she was begging me to save her, to save her kids, but I didn't you know. I killed her you know because that is what I had to do. Not a day goes by I don't regret that. I think of my own son, what if that was my own son. What we're doing over there is wrong. I can't say it enough. If you have dreams of serving your country, you can do it another way, you can do it by stopping the war. A lot of Vietnam people would tell me 'war is not what you think it is' - I didn't believe them. The military will lie to you, will manipulate you. Look at Iraq - we are terrorizing that nation and we are getting away with it. Don't fight for a war over money or a war to take over the whole middle east. The military isn't what it used to be. Find out everything - all the lies and stuff. The next thing you know there will be Iran Veterans Against the War, Syrian Veterans Against the War, China Veterans Against the War. The government is doing SO MUCH to keep us from being heard. The mainstream media will cut it out - I talk so much - they cut it out because they don't think people want to hear. I'm so dedicated to this - if it takes me holding up a flag, me getting killed to stop this I will do it. I want my family safe. Bring us home. Bring us home.

[fun n serious]

9. Thx Indy

That is a great help for some people who do not have audio or video on their computors. My canadian friend posted this at our LiberalCarriagehouse forum. I can't find it anywhere in USA media. Out of site out of mind, I guess.

[bonito]

12. Ok all of you PNAC supporters

Not here, I know I'm preaching to the choir, does the end justify the means when we send our children out to stabilize the future of the world from conflict for our own interest to do such things? and die for your ideology? Killing for a future eliminating their present, where is the sanity? have you visited the future? did you find that true democracy did not work to further change the world? no, you have given up on the one thing that made this country that shining light on the hill, a world of hope in all of humanity, the efforts of peace loving people all over the world could have brought, I still have faith that we can, maybe not in my lifetime, I realize it is the slow cure that is the strongest, and it is the power of reason not killing that brings forth lasting change for our future, the future of the world, represented by the USA a collective of all nations under God. Peace

[Tom Joad]

30. Very few pnac supporters at DU. Maybe you should talk to the hillary

supporters, the joe supporters. or maybe we can talk to Kerry, who campaigned on the premise that he was going to put more troops in iraq. and even now, says that we must have "benchmarks for success" before we withdraw troops. Very few are even supporting murtha (but say he is a swell guy, but speaks for himself), who after all says that troops should stay in the Middle East, but be withdrawn very quickly from Iraq.

We must promote an immediate withdraw.

[linazelle]

31. Thanks for the transcript. I'm posting it to my email loops. n/t

[IndyOp]

10. Kick. Important. Truth. (nt)

:kick:

[fun n serious]

11. Another video

http://nobravery.cf.huffingtonpost.com/

[IndyOp]

13. I've seen 'No Bravery' a few dozen times. Powerful.

Don't be surprised if this post does not make it to the Greatest page -- even though it deserves to be there -- most DUers don't seem to have the willingness to face this much reality.

This is modern war. It is all it ever was and will be.

Once upon a time, if someone invaded our land, stole our food, we would defend ourselves chase them out of our territory. You knew the war was over when they were gone.

Now? War is all about who can inflict the most casualties in, God have mercy on us, typically urban settings.

I was just reading on another thread that Iran, Russia, and Venezuala are all opening oil bourses -- if they do the dollar will collapse and the US will be at the financial mercy of the international community. Perhaps it will end our war on the Third World.

America's Third World War: How 6,000,000 People have died at the hands of the CIA and US military
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4068.htm

What I've learned about US Foreign Policy
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3453261789658676035

[fun n serious]

15. Out of sight, out of mind

People don't want to see or know what we are doing in Iraq. The reality is too much, I agree. I'm sitting here thinking and absolutely sickened. Our military represents us, the people of America. I have to think there must be some serious brain washing going on in the military. I have a brother who spent 23 years in the Army and went to Iraq twice. He won't talk about it much. He just says... "We're not there to think, someone else does the thinkning for us. We're there to get a job done at all cost and to follow orders.

Brave are the children of Iraq.

I hate Bush. I hate him with all the passion in my heart.

[IndyOp]

17. Kick and rec this thread too - maybe one will make it to Greatest...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1253554

[IndyOp]

19. I am sorry to hear that your brother was sent to Iraq...

I hope he is able to get out soon.

:(

[fun n serious]

21. He home and retired now

He went and came.

[BOHICA06]

14. Check his Bona Fides three ways from Sunday

.... the smell test meter is moving.

I'll await further confirmation.

[IndyOp]

16. He is a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War - I respect the group.

Maybe he was able to pull the wool over the IVAW member's eyes - but I think they would be very concerned about the validity of his story.

:(

[fun n serious]

18. Have you checked?

I looked and didn't find anything. Tho... I think it;s easier to discredit someone than to believe what they say especially if it hurts. The freepers do it to Murtha. I'm willing to see any eveidence that discredits this man if you have it.

[BOHICA06]

27. 16 months ....

I cannot confirm that any of the Battalions were deployed for that extented a period. It raises questions on the face ... still checking. Dosen't sound right (the length) for the Rangers.

[BOHICA06]

44. Checked now ....

...the guy is a fraud. See below!

[Scoody Boo]

23. Tell me about it.

I served with 3rd Ranger Battalion, I don't jump in on accusations against my brother Rangers until something more substantial than an internet interview pops up somewhere.

[fun n serious]

24. Did you serve in Iraq?

[Scoody Boo]

26. I served two six month contracts

with a security company.

[fun n serious]

28. I would be interested in knowing..

What you saw.

[niyad]

20. welcome to DU and thank you so much for posting this--it is heartbreaking

appalling and sad. everyone should see it, especially those damned chickenhawks and their braindead supporters.

[fun n serious]

22. It's somewhat safe to speak out now

But early in the war there was pressure to keep quiet. BTW, how do you vote for a thread?

[IndyOp]

25. To vote for a thread - look in the bottom left corner of original post --

You can only vote to recommend other people's threads.

[fun n serious]

29. Thx I found it.

The other thread now has 8 votes. Awesome!

[BreweryYardRat]

32. Jesus.

We need to arrange for war crimes trials at the Hague. All the way from Bush-Cheney to the officers who sanctioned this shit and on down to the lowest grunt on the ground with evidence against him. One of the fundamental rules of civilized war-you do your fucking best to minimize civilian casualties.

There is no justification for actions like that, just as there was no justification for torturing people who'd done nothing terrorist-related and were locked up in Abu Ghraib for no reason. You want to torture someone captured shooting at US troops, or convicted of terrorism in a fair court, yeah, maybe. But you don't torture detainees, and you don't butcher innocent families trying to get information, and you don't massacre people praying on their knees in a fucking holy place. That fucking Nazis did that shit.

Edit: Just sent this to my worthless Bush-supporting half-wit of a mother. Let's see if this shakes her faith in *.

[Disturbed]

33. If what this guy said is true

why isn't he being charged with his crimes?

Confessing to crimes does not exempt one from being charged with those crimes.

Could it be that the Military is ignoring this man because they don't wish to admit to these deeds? Or maybe they don't feel that he is credible?

[Scoody Boo]

37. It isn't true.

The guy was not a Ranger. He may have been in the Army, but the picture of him in his uniform is all wrong. Wrong Flash on his beret. He has a Special Forces flash on his Ranger Beret. Simply not done in any way shape or form.

The date he gives for being with 3rd Battalion in Falujah is the date that 3rd Ranger Battalion was back in Ft. Benning getting awarded a campaign streamer for their Battalion Guidon.

Too many red flags here. I would stay away from promoting this guy or what he says as true. When he gets exposed, everyone who believed him gets the same egg on their faces.

[fun n serious]

34. I think he's been hushed!!

The site has been disabled.

[populistdriven]

35. Site is Down - Anyone got a mirror?

I have a local copy saved

[katinmn]

36. Mirrored here:

Mirrored here

[Ron Mexico]

38. If this guy was a Ranger, I'm next in line for the throne of England.

See if you vets can spot the problems regarding his uniform (three should jump out immeidately) and his military.com profile...



Answers:

Beret worn incorrectly
Black t-shirt under BDU
Sleeves rolled up Marine style, not Army style

Now for something that nobody could possibly believe...



I'm actually laughing at this profile as I write this.

I doubt this asshole even served - or if he did, he washed out of AIT or even boot camp. Military impostors really piss me off, and even if this guy was recounting a true story I wouldn't believe anything he said.

Now if someone credible comes out with a similar story, people might not listen to him. Fucking unbelievable. :mad:

[BOHICA06]

39. Thanks Ron ....

.... the Rambo story was smelling. Love an E-4 with an SF flash ..... happens everyday! Three combat jumps .... Wow but no V on the BS. Heck, a Chief of Naval Operations shot himself for less.

[Ron Mexico]

40. What really gets me is that

the guy was so blatant about it. If you were going to lie to get national attention, wouldn't you do research?

This reminds me of some of the assholes I met in bars who claimed to be former major-leaguers (you know, lame attempts to get laid). When I'd hear about it, I'd ask what MLB union dues cost annually. That usually shut them up (and no, I was never in the majors, but one of my best friends had a cup of coffee at the top).

At any rate, even if this guy's stories are based on the truth and should be investigated, he just fucked us by being such a bad liar. This infuriates me. I wouldn't be upset at all to see this guy do what the Naval Chief of Operations did - he's not fucking helping.

[fun n serious]

41. Hummm... I hope this guy is real, now I have doubts

Here is another story of his.

http://arizona.indymedia.org/mail.php?id=17198

[Scoody Boo]

42. The guy is a liar...

of this I have absolutely no doubt.

[BOHICA06]

43. APRIL 2004 .....getting kick out of a coffee joint

the same time this FRAUD was suppose to be killing civilians in Fallujah.

DORK FEMF WANNABE .... dollars to donuts, he never stepped off CONUS.