What's the Difference Between "English Only" and Whites Only? (jpg)

[radio4progressives]

for those with a modicum of common sense and Liberal morality, and who recognize the fascist and racist underpinnings of this so called "issue" ...

download this flyer and take it to the streets or make a bumper sticker out of it.

[sui generis]

1. the difference is if you can't tell the fireman what room your kid is in

or the police officer what happened or the doctor in the ER where the pain is.

There is a practical side to it but it's being hijacked by both sides for their own agendas.

[nashville_brook]

5. can you not point?

[blondeatlast]

29. This thread shouldn't be funny--but thanks for the laugh!

:rofl;

[unlawflcombatnt]

21. Amen

You're absolutely correct.

:applause:

[blondeatlast]

28. It's a reality in my neck o' the woods--er, cactus, and the police

and fire personnel receive bonuses for learning another language--as do I, another public servant.

That is a terribly weak argument--especially since so many crossers WON'T call the pd or fire out of fear.

Somehow I expected more from you, sg.

[sui generis]

64. Well, what on earth is a "crosser"?

That's an odd phrase. Guffawing at can't they just "point" is equally bizarre. I don't get this - it IS public safety I was talking about. Let's flip it around: what if only spanish (pick your language) speaking firement are sent into a fine white middle class neighborhood to go rescue kids and put out fires. I wonder if the pointing jokes are still so funny.

It's not a weak argument; I live in a district of the city where just a few blocks away there really ARE people who couldn't tell a fireman what room their kid was in. The reality is that the great majority of all law enforcement personnel only speak English, bonuses and incentives aside.

Anyway, I was offering up a middle of the road argument - as someone whose first language was German I can speak to this issue.

At least try to learn the local language - why is that something some of us are against? I know it's not instantaneous, but shouldn't we at least be encouraging it with valid reasons to learn it rather than political reasons NOT to?

[AtomicKitten]

31. excellent analysis, sir

the distinction you have drawn is a point well taken

[radio4progressives]

33. like i said... a modicum of common sense and rational thinking is

woefully lacking.

[sui generis]

68. I confess I'm having a hard time distinguishing

agreement from its sarcastic obverse.

I'm prepared to either agree with you or circumsize you with a rusty spork. After lunch. If I still feel like it.

:rofl:

[XemaSab]

71. My observation here in Southern California

is that most Spanish-speaking people CAN speak at least some English, but they're just happier conversing in their native tongue, so you just don't see it.

[King Coal]

2. One concerns language the other concerns race.

[radio4progressives]

34. Nope.

Both "issues" in the context of what is being passed off "debate" yet, legislated is nothing other than White Supremacy or White Nationalism -aka Neo-Nazi Fascism.

[Buzz Clik]

3. Your reaction was predicted and desired...

The GOP Senators who pushed that legislation went home giggling. They wanted a partisan fight and got it. Most people think the US already has English as the official language, so the legislation is lost on them. However, that 30-some Senators (all Dems) voted against it is worth noting to them: Why would true-blue Americans vote against having English as the official language? Why indeed. It would have been better to go home early and miss that vote.

Giving the knuckledraggers air time and blog time is bullshit. Reid did his opponents a host of favors by calling them racists.

[johnnyrocket]

6. I agree, the left has overreached on this one..

...English is our binding as a society, any country that has multiple languages, has problems...infighting, wars, strife.

English should be our official language, and it certainly shouldn't be a partisan fight.

[nashville_brook]

7. reminds me of the French-only canadians

[Monk06]

20. "reminds me of the French-only canadians" Not relevent to the...

language controversy in the US.

[radio4progressives]

41. it absolutely is relevant. eom

[Monk06]

51. I should say relevant but not comparable..............

The French have have legal and constitutional
rights in Canada going back to the BNA Act of
1867. Before that the British government granted
the French and the Catholic Church traditional
rights after the French defeat on the Plains of Abraham.

More recently Quebec instituted French only language
laws (notably 1977’s Bill 101) but this hasn't
changed the cultural or economic dynamics in Canada
to any significant degree. The attitude of the average
Canadian is 'who cares?'

So the French situation is quite different to the
position of Mexicans in the American South West.

[radio4progressives]

42. it absolutely is identical. it's fascistic, nationalistic and smells of

Neo-Nazi memes.

[yellowcanine]

22. B.S. Switzerland has four national languages, German, French,

Italian, and Rumantsch. They haven't had any significant infighting since 1648 and as for wars, they have been officially neutral since 1812. It is too much emphasis on conforming to one culture and language that creates civil strife. We need English as a national language to facilitate public education, commerce and the political process. But there is no reason a great nation can't accomodate minority languages and there is no need for an "official language".

[Bridget Burke]

25. Canada & Belgium are other "hellholes" with multiple languages.

There are some difficulties in those countries, but NO wars.

Didn't we have a pretty bad war here in 1861--with English speakers on both sides?

[Bridget Burke]

24. English was our predominant language in 1861.

But we had a bloody Civil War, anyway. That was a pretty significant "unraveling."

I see plenty of infighting in today's USA. Mostly between folks who speak English.

Immigrants have always arrived speaking other languages. The grandkids end up speaking English only--unfortunately.

Of course, Spanish will continue to be spoken in Texas. No problemo.

[yellowcanine]

27. And something akin to French is spoken by the Cajuns. And it doesn't

cause strife - it attracts tourists.

[radio4progressives]

43. Cajuns were forced to immigrate to Lousiana from Canada

their language is rooted in French, but naturally took on a dialect that strayed abit from it's mother tongue one could say..

the music is great and so is the food and great culture.

Most Americans didn't even know they existed before 20 years ago.

[Monk06]

52. Interesting. The Cajuns originally came from Nova Scotia .........

Cajun French is in danger of being lost because
young people aren't learning it so French teachers
from QUEBEC have moved to LA to help out.

[radio4progressives]

56. Vivre le français et vivre les cadiens!

I hope the teachers from Quebec know the indigenous Cajun culture and language, but with organizations dedicated to reviving the culture and the language i think there would be a good chance but this English Only bill threatens that effort as well.

It is but one of many many many points in our collective history where White Supremacy and Nationalistic (racism) attitudes sought to suppress the many different cultures which have made our nation so rich, and vibrant. I and I appreciate you raising this point.

Here's a little reminder of the cultural persecutions in our recent past when the state of Louisiana mandated English Only laws:

http://www.breauxbridgelive.com/cajunhistory.html

The French language remained the dominant language in South Louisiana until the early 20th century, when a state mandate forbade the speaking of French on the school grounds.

Two generations of Cajuns were punished and made to feel ashamed for speaking French. Subsequently, the language (which is at the heart of the culture) nearly died.

In 1968, the CODOFIL (Council for the Development of French in Louisiana) was formed and the tide began to turn. A renaissance of the French language was spurred by French immersion programs throughout South Louisiana. Today, thanks to the efforts of groups like CODOFIL, ACTION CADIENNE, the Cajun French Music Association, L'ACadjin and others, the Cajun culture and French language is experiencing new prosperity. Vivre le français et vivre les cadiens!

[Monk06]

58. From Wiki ..........

Some francophones from overseas say that Acadian French sounds archaic citing characteristics such as pronunciation and lexical items (vocabulary) reminiscent of the language of Rabelais and Molière. Cajun French, a regional dialect spoken in Southern Louisiana in the United States, is a direct descendant of Acadian French.

Acadian French is descended from the French dialects of Anjou and of Poitou in France. Since there was no linguistic contact with France from the late 18th century until the 20th century, Acadian French retained features that died out during the French standardization efforts of the 19th century, including an alveolar r, and the third-person plural ending of verbs "-ont", e.g. ils mangeont (IPA: /i mɑ̃ʒɔ̃/), as compared to ils mangent, which does not have an ending that is pronounced.

Many speakers of other dialects of French, such as speakers of Metropolitan French, i.e. the French of France, and even of other Canadian dialects, have difficulty understanding Acadian French.

See also Chiac, a mixed language based on French and English, and Saint Mary's Bay French, a distinct variety of Acadian French spoken around Saint Mary's Bay, Nova Scotia.

[radio4progressives]

65. Yes, Ann Savoy spoke about this ...

Cajun Accordianist Marc Savoy's wife Ann Savoy (who speaks French)writes about this in her book: A Reflection of a People

http://www.lsue.edu/acadgate/music/savoy.htm

Ann Allen Savoy was born and raised in Richmond, Va. She learned French when she was a child, and she also majored in French in college. Her musical interest began in her childhood, and she began playing the guitar at age 12. She met Marc Savoy at the 1975 National Folk Festival in Washington, D.C., and they were married the following year. Her book, Cajun Music: A Reflection of a People, is an essential source for anyone interested in Cajun or Creole music. It includes music and lyrics in French (including phonetic pronunciations) with English translations to many traditional songs, interviews with dozens of musicians, many of whom have now passed from the scene, many old photographs, plus historical overviews and articles on instruments, and musical styles.

[radio4progressives]

40. It's true, I am Left of Adolph Hitler, and Hitler would agree with you.

[WinkyDink]

70. Switzerland? (Oops! Didn't see previous post! )

4 languages, pretty peaceful.

[VaYallaDawg]

9. Right on!

Their strategy continues - (and I hate to admit, it's successful). It's just like a pack of wolves separating out a lone sheep from the herd. First it was gay people, gay marriage, all that BS. Now, it's immigrants, people who don't speak English. If they decide the elderly are small enough of a minority, then it could possibly be old people. And of course, their antagonism towards Black people has always been just barely masked.

[radio4progressives]

44. That's what the Social Security "debate" was about..

to pit generation against generation - people of the same family!

[Guaranteed]

36. I think you're betraying our country's ideals.

Sure, you're taking the easy way.

But you know that all this legislation is, is a way to ostracize and scapegoat people.

Sometimes you just have to do things because it's the right thing to do. And, you know, maybe you should more faith in Americans, as well as the CONSTITUENTS of the Democratic Party.

Hmmmm.......constituents....

[radio4progressives]

39. Why Would a "true blue American" oppose Nationalizing the Language?

I might take a stab at what should be obvious to most people who received a public education, might remember a bit of 20th Century history in a country called Germany and leader with the name of Adolph Hitler.

While it is true, there are Neo Nazi's in this country, and even supporters of Hitler during his time, Prescott Bush, Henry Ford, IBM et al - most "True Blue" Americans (who received a public education in this country) would outright reject LEGISLATING anything that smacks of Nationalism, which this obviously does.

The English language is already ESTABLISHED as the "national" language. it doesn't require LEGISLATING. The entire business world speaks English. It's already international. Legislating opens the door to criminalizing other languagues from being spoken or written in our country. And that is the ultimate goal by those who wrote that bill in the first place.

Basta!

[seriousstan]

4. English has no color

[FreakinDJ]

8. Even Foriegn countries recognise the value in speaking english

Poor English bad for RP economy

By Eunice Fernando and Sarah Azucena

For decades the troubled Philippine economy has been able to bank on one key asset in attracting foreign investors—proficiency in the English language.

In recent years this advantage has helped win outsourcing contracts in the booming business-process outsourcing and call centers, one of the few areas of the nation’s economy that are actually expanding.

But even that lifeline in this poor country appears tenuous as fears surface over a sharp decline in English compounded by falling school standards and an exodus of linguistically skilled professionals.

Business leaders are beginning to question just how long the country can go on touting its English skills.
http://www.manilatimes.net/national/2006/may/23/yehey/top_stories/20060523top5.html

Sorry if this disappoints you but encouraging the immigrant population to learn english helps to prevent them from being exploited

[nashville_brook]

10. there's a diff between *encouraging* and requiring

[FreakinDJ]

23. New English language amendment requires nothing

So what is your point.

It doesn't stop bilingual education or spanish interpreters in court so what exactly is your point

[radio4progressives]

45. It opens the door just for all of these things to happen

and if you have been paying attention to how this Congress works and how the Fascists and the Neo-Nazi's and the Fundies have been working their political "craft" in advancing their agenda, this is exactly how they do it.

[Coyote_Bandit]

11. English

is to language is to learned as white is to race is to inherent.

You can acquire some additional language skills - you cannot change your race.

I have a friend who moved to another country about 15 years ago and was not able to speak their language (or any other language except English). Within 6 weeks whe was able to communicate basic needs and get directions and buy necessities and travel and such. Within a year she was working as a translator. Because she works with indigenous people groups she has had to learn over 20 native tongues. Her English is now very heavily accented and she says most of her dreams are in her new language.

Language and the ability to communicate are a very practical issue with potentially enormous health and safety implications.

You will also find that if you want to immigrate elsewhere in the world that language skills often are a factor. Canada, for example, considers fluency in both English and French among their criteria in granting immigrant status.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. There's no difference.

It'd also be like having an official religion.

It's inherently bigoted bullshit.

[Nederland]

32. Yes there is

You can learn English.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

35. You can bleach your hair and skin.

And it's easier than learning English.

So, no, there's no difference. It's a bunch of racist bullshit.

[Guaranteed]

37. It's almost that simple.

With a few- very minor- practical issues thrown in.

It's a classic, bigoted wedge issue.

I stand with those Senators who opposed this. It was simply right.

[LoZoccolo]

13. One affects other people, the other doesn't.

I'm not pushing for an official language, but I wouldn't set up a strawman in opposition to one.

[sallyseven]

15. I hate to mention this but we do not speak English we speak

American. It is quite different. Bush speaks Gibberish.

[LoZoccolo]

16. Granted that we speak American English.

I still don't see the point of trying to cram a square peg into a round hole in this one, especially since everyone can see it's a square peg and a round hole. People aren't generally convinced by transparently manipulative tactics.

[radio4progressives]

49. Both Affects "other people".

how could you possibly say or think otherwise?

[LoZoccolo]

50. You're misinterpreting what I'm saying.

Whether or not someone is white or not shouldn't affect anyone else. Language by it's very nature does.

[radio4progressives]

54. My bad - i did misunderstand, thanks for the clarity.. eom

[pocket]

14. anyone of any race can learn English

duh

[yellowcanine]

17. Only an insecure government mandates an "official language"

It is funny to me that conservatives are getting all pissy about making English the official language. Guess which country we most resemble if we were to do that?...........France.

[rinsd]

30. Many nations have official languages.

Quite a few nations even have more than one official language.

[radio4progressives]

48. Yep. No Doubt.

But so what?

[radio4progressives]

46. It's the Fascists M.O.

first they introduce something that just seems symbolic at most...

But it's laying down the foundation for more significant legislation down the road - that has Nationalistic implications, and ultimately the criminalization of the use of other languages in this country.

[ugarte]

18. If the point is to be more cohesive as a nation

shouldn't we all be the same religion as well? After all, religion is very divisive. Maybe we should all be English-only Christians.

(Not me, though, no thanks.)

[Wheres The Beef]

19. What color is English?

n/t

[MrSlayer]

26. Come on, this is ridiculous.

Save the racism talk for cases of actual racism. Anyone of any color can learn to speak English. I fail to see what the problem is in expecting people that want to come here to learn the language. If I moved to Germany I would learn to speak German.

[Guaranteed]

38. The problem with expecting people that want to come here to

learn the language is expecting people that come here to learn the language.

Mind your own business.

Same as gay marriage.

This is nothing but a tool for ostracization. If people don't want to or CAN'T learn English, that's them. This legislation is only there to punish and outcast them.

It, in fact, does nothing to ACTUALLY HELP PEOPLE LEARN THE LANGUAGE, does it?

[radio4progressives]

47. This is Racism.

but Most White People can't see it, refuse to see it, and don't want to admit it. Just because don't want to admit it, doesn't mean that it isn't the reality.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

61. Exactly.

:thumbsup:

[janx]

53. STOP IT.

If you really need to know, educate yourself and ask a linguist.

[ismnotwasm]

55. I understand your point

It's my experience that immigrants DO learn at least some English. I've stayed away from this issue because I don't quite get it.
WHO is NOT learning English? WHO are the immigrants not trying? Do we have a underground cabal of immigrants refusing to learn? Living on "the dole" (to use an old term for welfare) Not willing to work? I have Filipino neighbors on my right, Cambodian on my left. Mexicans up the street. El Salvadorian. Vietnamese. Chinese immigrants own my favorite gas station. We have a strong Samoan community. Korean community. All speak English or are trying to learn, at the same time offering the riches of community and culture brought from their native land. I've worked with many Ethiopian and Eritrean immigrants--All, and I mean ALL were MULTI-lingual some speaking as many as 7 languages. I work with Gambian, Mexican, Korean, Chinese, Filipino, Japanese, Ukrainian, French Canadian, Kenyan nurses. Just what I can think of of the top of my head. The nurses speak fluent English, albeit with an accent.

I live in the most ethnically diverse neighborhood I've ever seen. I'm surrounded by immigrants. We have the Hmong who were so poorly treated during the Vietnam war. We have a Cambodian refugee support center. Pol Pot anyone? Hell, over the hill we have a hispanic Narcotics Anonymous office. If the adult or older immigrants have difficulty with English, their children sure don't.
So I ask, because I really really don't get it. Who are these immigrants not trying their hardest to make it in this country? Why do we need a mandate or law saying English only? Even the "illegals" I've met or ones with green cards know at least some English. Or are trying to learn. They're not stupid. "English Only" is a racist insult. It assumes these hard working people many who have suffered far more than is possible to believe aren't trying, don't want to try to learn.

If it's a Republican straw man to make an divisive issue, it's very, very sad anybody buys into it.

[radio4progressives]

57. Very well put, thank you for this contribution... eom

:applause:

[ismnotwasm]

59. You're welcome

One of the things I've noticed is the focus on "Mexicans" Like South America isn't a continent. Like they're the only immigrants in this country. It pisses me off. We have a wealth of immigrants. Many, many languages. And we're still a melting pot. I personally love culture and cultures. I love Ethnicity. I love skin colors. So much of it is art. It adds riches and dimension to my life.

[radio4progressives]

66. Hear! Hear!

The so called "English Only" legislation is the foundation to make legal what amounts to as a Cultural Genocide. It needs to be opposed just as every other racist and xenophobic policy.

This morning, as i'm listening to the PR flaks are arguing that the English Only bill intends to "Unify" .. intended to bring us together as a country. Poppycock! What DoubleSpeak!

[TankLV]

60. Plenty. And if you refuse to see the diference, it's no use arguing with

you.

It's a waste of time and effort.

[radio4progressives]

67. You Just made my case.. This isn't about "unifying" the country

As one white English speaking person to another white English speaking person ....you just proved that this issue is as divisive as was intended to be when the racists bastards in Congress introduced this bill in the first place.

[TankLV]

69. Bullshit. But I expect as much from you.

You are hopeless if you can't see the difference.

You proved MY point - handily

[Apollo11]

62. Try living in Belgium

11 million people living in a tiny country.

5 million speak French as their first language.

6 million speak Dutch (or Flemish).

They can't get along. In fact - a lot of them hate the other half of the country.

They basically have ethnic cleansing - many years before Yugoslavia broke up.

If you live in a Flemish town, the French language is banned, and vice-versa.

PS - I guess the difference is ... anyone can learn English! :)

[Freddie Stubbs]

63. You can't learn to be white

Well, at least most people can't...