My Note to Marc Ash, Director of Truthout.org

[cenacle]

May 22, 2006

Dear Mr. Ash,

I am one of many, many people following Truthout.org's breaking of the Karl Rove indictment story. I have read all of the related pieces on your website, and want to tell you that your organization is carrying the weight of many people's hopes right now. Until the story is proven, and the public confirmations made, it is a matter of faith--you for your sources, your readers for you--that is keeping everyone concerned hopeful. With the threats to freedom everywhere, and made more brazenly every day, we need every victory we can get, and rue more deeply each defeat.

But I want to say this most truly from my heart: no matter the outcome, don't stop your work, not for a minute, not for anyone. The cynics and the fascists are alike in this: they do not believe that there is good in the world, and want to convince everyone else to surrender to fear and selfishness too. Don't let them do that to you, sir, nor to your staff. There is so much at stake, and so much to lose.

Lastly, on a less dramatic note, but no less important, I wish for you and your staff good health, clear thinking, and glad moments. While this situation is very important, it does not comprise everything in the world. There is more. There is family, there are private moments of memory and contemplation, there is laughter and foolishness. There is nature, art, and the mystery of being alive at all.

I wish you and everyone there at Truthout good luck and best wishes. Better days are ahead, by our own hand, with a bit of luck, and because maybe something beyond the reach of our ordinary senses does not wish us always to be suffering.

Peace to you,
RS
Scriptor Press
Seattle, Washington
http://www.geocities.com/scriptorpress

[OldLeftieLawyer]

1. Welcome to DU, cenacle,

and, in case you haven't noticed, the story was false. Every bit of it.

So, park your hope and belief, and pull up a chair at the well-populated round table of reality and join those of us who don't wish Mr. Ash or any of the people who deliberately chose to perpetuate this trash anything but the ability to find within themselves a way to offer an apology for and retraction of what they've done.

[pretzel4gore]

5. do you think Truthout was 'agent provocateur-ing?'

it seems that, given the role of big big big money in the bushevik success thus far, we on the left should expect the big big big money to...say 'create' facts in a pressure cooker atmosphere where they might get showcased, thus giving the swiftboaters their entree to attack the left itself?
it's clear rove is a murdering thief and punk - come the revolution, let's arrest him for being a big fat idiot, hang him for smelling of brut! (just kidding, sorta)
every goddam day, i hear lies spread on the mass media. every day! and the liars know they're spreading lies (iran makes jewish people wear yellow stars, for example)

[OldLeftieLawyer]

6. I have no idea why that article was ever posted

It was so absurd, I can't even begin to understand why anyone who read it didn't question its obvious failings and trash it.

Motives of people who do things like that elude me. I don't like to second-guess people I don't know.

Yes, now more than ever, we have to take everything we hear and read with a grain of salt and do as much of our own newsgathering as we can. That's not easy, but it's the price we pay for having an American media that's bent so far over for this Administration, it has become worthless.

I doubt, though, that a tiny site like truthout was any kind of Rovian target. It appears to be a collection of incompetents without any ethics or integrity who shot themselves in their own butts.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[gaspee]

13. I've actually

Been around here for quite awhile and am pretty familiar with your posts in the feminists group and the glbt group. I just don't feel the need to insert my .02 into every conversation. Or to berate people constantly.

And yeah, sure, I'm stupid. Whatever floats your boat.

[Name removed]

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[cenacle]

21. no thanks for the welcome...

I've been here quite awhile, as a matter of fact. And I'm not yet convinced of the truth or falseness of the story. Some things in it have not happened, some might still happen. In the end, what I really hope is that Rove is taken down for his career of fucking people over, it's simple as that. I have more hope than belief right now, but I won't ever park them for nasty folks like yourself. And no thanks to your table.

I just don't understand how nasty people get here. I read the posts and think: these people agree on so much, why does it break down into endless flaming? It's not just arguing intelligently, it's low-down flaming. We have so much work to do to bring down the Bush cabal, and undo his years of ruin, yet people such as the one I'm responding to here seem to take far more interest in attacks.

Did you derive something from attacking me? Did you think I was a newbie who would flinch? Did you notice in my profile I've been a member for several years?

I just really hope that as the elections come nearer we rally together to do the very hard work of taking back the Congress and then compelling our new majority to do the right things for the country and the world. None of this is going to happen easily, nor is any of it assured. The polls may look good now, but they've looked good before and the bastards have somehow taken the prize anyway.

So, leftielawyer, I don't have time for you, and you don't have time for me, and we don't have time for this. I don't take nasty shots silently, but then again I've said enough, and there are many more important things to do than flaming.

[uppityperson]

2. Nice letter.

peace to you.

[kstewart33]

3. One question.

If the Washington Post had carried a story that was very costly to the Democratic Party and continued to stand by it even when virtually all other media, including some commanding respect, ignored the story or criticized it because of the reputation of the writer, and because the weight of logic was running so overwhelmingly against the story:

Would you be writing such a letter to the Post? Would we all be giving them a pass?

I don't think so. And that is what is so troubling about this entire episode.

There are many DUers who are ready and willing to give truthout a complete pass if they are completely wrong on this story.

If we do this, we are no better than the Free Republic. We like your politics, well then, screw up and it's ok. But if we don't like your politics, screw up, and Katy bar the dang door.

That's the real problem here.

[Lerkfish]

4. it appears to be a big problem in your opinion.

not such a big problem in mine.

[kstewart33]

12. Well then, let's establish a new rule at DU.

We praise and support the stories we like (and their authors), and we trash the stories/authors we don't like, regardless of whether they are true or not.

Now that's integrity.

[Lerkfish]

16. Do as you like, as for me, I never praised nor trashed truthout

I have only spoken out against people who went beyond mere skepticism and careened into irrational character assasination.

My stand has always been that what they reported could either be true or not.

my objection is to those who take it much too seriously, like yourself, who consider it a big problem. I'm saying in the scheme of things on my plate, its not that big of a problem either way.

not sure if you're trying to impugn my integrity, but if you are, you're simply mistaken, my integrity is not in danger, since I listed all the possible outcomes of the story. And if so, you prove my point that its a bigger deal for you than for me: you appear to consider the story, if incorrect, a personal affront. I do not.
I'm not connected with truthout, I don't know them, so if they stand or fall is immaterial to me.

I simply speak up because I feel the apparent desire to trash them, by some, seems over the top and unnecessarily divisive.

as your post to me was: over the top and unnecessarily divisive.

Next time, before you sarcastically attempt to impugn my integrity, at least wait until I screw up and deserve it. You won't have to wait very long, most likely.

peace

[kstewart33]

17. Not impugning your integrity.

I'm refering to the demise of the integrity of our DU community if we take the position of supporting those we like regardless of the facts and trash those we don't, ditto.

That's the real problem here.

[Lerkfish]

18. thanks for the clarification.

ok, then I would agree with you, sorry for the misunderstanding.

[high density]

7. I think you're right

There's a lot of hypocrisy going on at DU right now. It's similar to how it was back during the Dan Rather TANG story. (Granted the story is probably true but those docs Rather had were bogus, no doubt about it.)

I'm used to BS flowing from the MSM and people like Wayne Madsen, but Truthout seemed to be doing quite well until now. Unfortunately Leopold gave them this turd of a story and this "just have faith" response to it just is not acceptable.

[CTyankee]

19. Did you read Mary Mapes book about hte memo?

Mapes never claimed the memo was authentic, because it was a copy. That didn't automatically make it bogus, tho. Just that she couldn't claim it was authentic (copies of documents cannot be tested for authenticity the way originals can). See the difference? She illustrated in the book how the physical look of the memo changed once it had been faxed, since the fax process distorted letters and spacing. She offered corroborating evidence to back up her assertion that Bush avoided service.

I'd like to know, tho, what you base your assertion about the memo on? It's an interesting question and I truly would like to know more from your side...

[OldLeftieLawyer]

11. The real problem is the indictment

There was an indictment dated the 12th, remember, or so they reported.

There is no indictment.

That's the story. The rest of it is just painful gibberish.

And the Washington Post, for all the issues I take with that paper recently, would never run a piece of crap story like this one. Ever.

If we don't hold our side to the same standards we demand from everyone else, we're nothing but a bunch of freepers, in my opinion.

[OzarkDem]

15. I wouldn't back the WaPo

they have a poor reputation when it comes to the truth.

OTOH, Truthout hasn't given me any reason to doubt them in the past, they've been fair and accurate. They've gone to a great deal of trouble in this case to back up their assertions, they deserve the benfit of the doubt.

WaPo doesn't.

[OzarkDem]

14. Good message

Truthout has taken a courageous stand and I back them all the way. They deserve support, they've never given any reason to doubt.

[robcon]

20. That seems to be a faith-based, not reality-based post

OzarkDem wrote: "They deserve support, they've never given any reason to doubt."

The Truthout story was patently and obviously false. What happened to the 24 (business?) hours? Truthout has given me more than "reason to doubt."

What we need to support, IMO, is the truth, or the closest we can come to the truth. Truthout is a fine publication. But I put my faith in facts and evidence, not authors.