Methodist Leader Calls For President’s Impeachment

[ProSense]

Methodist Leader Calls For President’s Impeachment

(May 23, 2006)--The United Methodist Church's chief social-issues spokesman, the Rev. Jim Winkler, says Congress should impeach President Bush "to advance the kingdom of God."

Winkler proposed that during the annual "Ecumenical Advocacy Days," attended by delegates from his church and other denominations, most of them members of the National Council of Churches.

In his view, "there was nothing Christian" in President Bush's response to the 9/11 attacks.

The Methodist church's official Social Principles declare, "War is incompatible with the teachings and example of Christ," and reject war "as an instrument of national foreign policy."

The Methodists are America's third-largest religious body.

http://www.kwtx.com/news/headlines/2856006.html

[Captain Hilts]

1. Aren't W and Laura Methodists? nt

[Divine Discontent]

3. yes! & Clinton's a S. Baptist! HA! backwards... I LOVE THE REV SPOKE!

[3waygeek]

22. Here in metro Atlanta

some of my friends joke that a Methodist is just a Baptist who knows how to read.

[987654321]

26. That's inappropriate...

and pretty damn funny!

[tabasco]

71. Hahahaha! Yeah, that'll jag some people off.

But I admit I laughed.

[AspenRose]

80. That came from the movie "A River Runs Through It"

eom

[IndianaGreen]

34. Nixon was raised a Quaker, and look at what he did

Hitler was Catholic and Stalin went to monastery.

[DuckBurp]

46. W and Laura are MINOs ...

Methodists in name only.

Actually, we Methodists are a quite tolerant denomination. About all you have to do to be a Methodist is say you are one. Many Methodists have spoken out against W and his war since he began it.

[CoolOnion]

51. I can vouch for that

I'm a Methodist, and Bush is proof that we'll let anybody in.

As a denomination, we've relentlessly campaigned against just about everything he's done, from pre-emptive strikes to his "war on terra." If candidates are going to run calling themselves Methodist, they've gotta deal with some of us parishioners who know the Book of Discpline, which is anti-war and calls for environmental stewardship--everything from recycling to supporting non-polluting industry.

(For letter-writing ideas, check out the Environment page of the UMC, at this link http://archives.umc.org/interior.asp?ptid=1&mid=676)

[AnneD]

61. Our Sunday School class

is as liberal as you can get and it is a source of pain that Bush proclaims to be a Methodist. We figure that if he attended church more often, he wouldn't have done half of what he has. Heck, we'll even volunteer to read the passages to him if he is having trouble.

I am glad Rev. Winkler spoke out. He is respected in the church and we are having too many RW trying to come in and usurp our message, our mission, and our funds.

[AspenRose]

81. Exactly what the "Confessing Movement" seeks to do

"......we are having too many RW trying to come in and usurp our message, our mission, and our funds."

And not just with the Methodists.

[noahmijo]

68. Bush's religion is symbolized by this

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Even a non-Christian like myself can see this. Pains me how so many other 'Christians' can't.

Brings me hope to see people like you and these other Methodists on this post who refuse to let your religion be hijacked.

[wryter2000]

69. The Methodist church was against the war before he started it

His own church told him invading Iraq was wrong. Did anyone in the corporate media notice? Did they have a Methodist minister on the talk shows to represent the Christian point of view? We all know the answer to that.

[AspenRose]

79. Hillary is Methodist

So's John Edwards.

[stepnw1f]

2. Good (nt)

[Rose Siding]

4. Impeachment for religious reasons?

That sounds like a really bad idea to me.

[Bluerthanblue]

6. agreed, but how about starting with ex-communicating him...

... I'm not a Methodist, but that would be something those who are might want to look into-

[rodeodance]

7. hey, wouldn't that be juicy!!

[Staph]

23. Nice idea, but . . .

We Methodists don't have any such thing as excommunication. And we aren't like the more fundamentalist churches, with censure or banning or shunning.

But Methodists have been thinking about this serpent in our midst for a long time. Back in early 2003, more than 100 United Methodists took out an ad in The Christian Century Magazine, asking Bush to "repent" of his policies, especially the coming war in Iraq. See more at Ad asks president to repent of foreign, domestic policies

The message was written and signed before U.S.-led forces began military action against Iraq on March 19, explained the Rev. Jennifer Kimball Casto, a signer and pastor of New Life United Methodist Church in Columbus, Ohio.

The Rev. Eric A. Stone, the chaplain-director of the Wesley Foundation at Central Michigan University, wrote the document as a petition to his annual conference. Someone suggested that he make it an ad, "and I felt that a distinctly United Methodist voice (among the other ads and online petitions) would be appropriate in challenging one of our own" members. President Bush is a United Methodist.

"Since we do not excommunicate people in our denomination, I ruminated on possible ways I might respond to someone who I feel should be held accountable," Stone said.

[Yupster]

24. Methodist here too

I didn't know we had a leader either?

[AnneD]

85. Don't you get the

United Methodist Reporter with your church newsletter. Rev Winkler has a regular column. Try this site.

www.reporterinteractive.org


We have lots of leaders and if you hand around long enough-they'll put you on a committee. :spray:

[Yupster]

94. LOL -- I've been on just about every

committee at the church already.

Teach Sunday School too, and yes I get the UMR too.

[987654321]

27. If somehow he did get ex-communicated

Bush could always join our Catholic Church. As long as he remained anti-abortion and inti-gay, he would never get ex-communicated, no matter how many people die because of him.

[CoolOnion]

52. Methodist here, too

We don't excommunicate, we just write lots of letters to editors, publish ads, sign petitions, march in anti-Bush rallies, publicly denounce his policies--none of that stuff seems to be working! Maybe we should look into this excommunication thingy--a special exception in Dubya's case...

I always look up the voting records of people claiming to be Methodist, and got a LTTE in my local rag against one Congressman who supports polluting industry over the constituents. I urge everybody else to do the same. (For any non-Methodists who want to do the same, check out the website, http://www.umc.org; in the search box, enter "environment," "Iraq," or anything else of interest and compare what the church believes to what your MINO (Methodist in Name Only) is doing.

[hfojvt]

72. we don't excommunicate?

Then how about a trial?

According to the United Methodist Book of Discipline: "A lay member of a local church may be charged with the following offenses and, if so, may choose a trial: (a) immorality; (b) crime; (c) disobedience to the Order and Discipline of the United Methodist Church ..."

....

An easier charge to prove, although I will never convince his mother or other diehard supporters, is that of immorality - specifically lying. First, although it should be obvious, to establish that lying is immoral, a brief search of the scriptures reveals the following:

Proverbs 11:3 - The integrity of the upright guides them, but the unfaithful are destroyed by their duplicity.

Proverbs 12:22 The Lord detests lying lips, but he delights in men who are truthful.

Proverbs 13:5 - The righteous hate what is false,

Proverbs 19:5 A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who pours out lies will not go free.

Ephesians 4:25 Therefore each of you must put off falsehood and speak truthfully to his neighbor, for we are all members of one body.

[AnneD]

87. We may not be known for much...

but we do know how to organize and make committees (and we have darn good pot lucks too).

[Staph]

92. And we're darn good singers, too!

:headbang:

[wryter2000]

70. I'd just be happy for a loud chorus of real Christians

If the real Christians were on the teevee every night decrying this war as counter to the teachings of Jesus, I'd be happy.

[banana republican]

76. There was talk about excomunication

about two or three years ago.

They may have been exed...

[ContraBass Black]

86. By whom?

Methodists don't excommunicate.

[ProSense]

8. Since we're in a theocracy and Bush claims...

George Bush: 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'

President told Palestinians God also talked to him about Middle East peace

Ewen MacAskill
Friday October 7, 2005
The Guardian


George Bush believes he is on a mission from God, according to the politician Nabil Shaath. Photograph: Charles Dharapak/AP

George Bush has claimed he was on a mission from God when he launched the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, according to a senior Palestinian politician in an interview to be broadcast by the BBC later this month.

Mr Bush revealed the extent of his religious fervour when he met a Palestinian delegation during the Israeli-Palestinian summit at the Egpytian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, four months after the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

more...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1586978,00.html

[bluesbassman]

33. I despise that photo...

and the many others that the fawning press used to portray b*sh as some sort of saint. He's nothing of the sort, just playing "dress up" Christian like everything else in his life. Dress up student, dress up Guardsman, dress up businessman, dress up baseball team owner, dress up Governor and dress up president. The man's life has been nothing but a sham, and while I'm glad that the Methodist church has come to their senses, I'm amazed it took them this long to detect a "false prophet in sheep's clothing, who inwardly is a ravenous wolf".

[bdamomma]

42. there should fire shooting from bush's head

than a halo. He is no christian.

[Hekate]

96. That photo really makes me gag. It's just about blasphemous. nt

[gratuitous]

9. That would indeed be a really bad idea

But the article is pretty short on specifics; I'd be surprised if Winkler was calling for Bush's impeachment solely on "religious" grounds.

However Winkler makes a very good point, and one that might resonate with the "Dubya is a good Christian man" crowd, which is that Bush's response to the September 11 attacks was anything but Christian.

[Imagine My Surprise]

10. I agree...it's highly unlikely that a key spokesman for such a prominent

denomination would suggest that Bush be impeached solely on religious grounds. I would, in fact, be shocked if that's the case. There is no ex-communication among Methodists, either. But Bush has been pretty much ostracized from his Washington DC congregation from what I hear.

[Bluerthanblue]

12. unfortunately

I've argued just that fact with many 'christ'ians myself. And I'm continually told that His advocating non-violence, and forgiveness doesn't apply to 'governments'-
Also cited is the overthrowing of the money-changers at the temple- (which is pretty lame) Christ is made to look like some kind of 'rambo' agressor- when if you actually read the accounts, is not even remotely true.
Even when the words Christ spoke as Peter cut off the ear of the centurian who came to arrest Him are cited "Those who live by the sword shall die by it"- it means nothing.

I'm a follower of Christ- or seek to be- but not a 'christ'ian by todays definition.

'The LOVE of money/(power) is the root of all evil'- is so profound.
This administration is demonstrating that for everyone to see.-
'Do not store up for yourselves, treasures on earth'
'To whom much is given much will be required'

I could go on, but no need...

[classof56]

44. Re Christ's admonition to Peter, I heard a radio "preacher" awhile back

stating that Jesus' statement, "Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword", is justification for the death penalty. I was stunned. Guess it's all a matter of interpretation, but I am plainly fed up with many of my fellow Christians lately. God will be the final judge, of course, but I prefer to heed the words of Jesus you have listed. Thanks for your thoughtful post.

Tired Old Cynic

[pokercat999]

54. Most self described Christians I've met are anything but

"CHRISTIAN", in their actions and their speech.

[Divine Discontent]

11. ok, he in effect is saying he started a war, so use that reason :) n/t

[Brothaman2k]

48. I think it's more accurate...

To say it's on moral grounds.

[Klukie]

5. That is fabulous!!!!!

Now I can tell my right wing, bible beating inlaws that their own church wants their hero out. I can't wait.

[Kenergy]

13. LOL ! Let 'em have it ! And let us know what they say n/t

[speedoo]

14. Can we have an AAAYYY-MEN!!!

Umm... the drip drip drip is turning into a mon-freakin-soon.

[Joanne98]

15. Here's his addy. Thank him please.

[e-mail]

I talked to him before. He's the real deal.

[ProSense]

17. Cool! Thanks! n/t

[Us vs Them]

16. ABOUT TIME?

What took so long, guys?

[Buck Rabbit]

19. The Methodist Bishops tried to meet with Bush before the war.

They were strongly opposed to the concept of pre-emptive war. He wouldnt meet with them even though he was supposedly a Methodist at the time.

[expatriot]

18. the major protestant denominations have "activist" social issues directors

which in and of themselves have little effect on the views of the average jon and jane in the congregation. I bet this same social issues spokeman declared the iraq invasion immoral. It is great news but I don't want anyone to succumb to irrational exuberance.

[Roland99]

20. Good idea. Wrong reason. It's not "to advance the kingdom of God",

it's to advance the cause of justice!

[ProSense]

21. IMO, both reasons are valid! The Reverend

is sticking to his calling and responding to Bush's

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2643436&mesg_id=2643473

[Pacifist Patriot]

65. Therein lies the rub. It's a matter of opinion as to the validity...

of the "kingdom of God" reason. It's a matter of law as to the validity of the constitutional reasons for impeachment.

I realize he is speaking as a minister, but that still does not make his reason sit any better with nonChristians or atheists. It remains a scary proposition to base government decisions on religious rationale. Congress should do their duty under the Constitution, not according to their beliefs about a kingdom of God on earth.

[TygrBright]

47. Not even that...

...it's to preserve the Constitution and hold blivet accountable to the LAW, which (contrary to his apparent belief,) applies to him just as much as to any other American.

And preserving the Constitution and upholding the law are not the province of any Church in this Republic. Although I appreciate the sentiments expressed and agree with them heartily, it is inappropriate to express them in his official capacity as a representative of the Methodist Church.

However, I think so highly of the Methodists (along with the UCC) that I'm willing to believe that there is more to this than the article portrays. Hopefully it will get clarified quickly.

ambivalently,
Bright

[radio4progressives]

25. too bad he didn't come out with this statement during the campaign

in 2004. this is a day late and a dollar short, and thousands of innocent lives lost, along with thousands of American casualties.

a nice safe comment to make when it's too late.

[ProSense]

28. This is interesting!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2643436&mesg_id=2643592

[AspenRose]

82. See post 19

Plus the letter of complaint against Bush & Cheney was written in September 2004. You don't honestly expect the MSM to COVER this, do you?

[BrklynLiberal]

29. He will pull a King Henry VIII and start his own religion!!!!!

It is somewhat satisfyng to finally hear some relgious leaders speak out against Dimson. It would have been a lot more meaningful had it happened before the 2004 election, or even better before the 2000 election.

[Dr.Phool]

36. King George's "Church of the Antichrist"!

Or Church of the Beast.

[Pacifist Patriot]

64. Many religious leaders have been doing this for years.

Media coverage is once again a major problem.

[DemoTex]

30. If Christ lived in a tent in Lafayette Square across from the White House,

Christ would be very pissed at Bu$h. But, then again, Bu$h acts like one of those who not only assumes that Christ saves only millionaires, but that Christ himself was a millionaire. Christ as bling-bling.

Peace of Christ, Mr. Bu$h (like he would ever know what that means).

[svpadgham]

31. In his view,

there was nothing Christian" in President Bush's response to the 9/11 attacks."


So, Why didn't he call for *'s impeachment between 9/12/01-5/22/06? Does 30% mean Jesus thinks dubya's right, and 29% means he's wrong? I didn't know Jesus was backwash.

[ProSense]

32. Wrong premise! Read this!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2643436&mesg_id=2643592

[Point-X]

35. The Methodist leader says Bush should be impeached?

Hey, I love this post.

First, Yes bush needs to be impeached AND tar and feathered for his continual attack on everyone not rich enough to suit him and those that were just innocent and in his imperialistic path.

However, from the point of view of someone who has sat and listened to preacher after methodist preacher SUPPORT bush and his murderous war, from someone who has listened to sermon after sermon in support of "fighting them there so we do not have to fight them here", from someone that has heard them preach over and over of the requirement of all of us that we "get behind our leaders", I WANT THEM ALL impeached. I want to see every single one of the murderous preachers, who are now against the war because it is unpopular, thrown in prison for leading their sheep into a sin of agreeing to murder in the name of "national interests".

It is so funny how the god damn cowards get behind whatever gets them a vote or a favorable response. It is so funny how "Patriotic" it is becoming to be against the war now that it is popular to do so. I and, well, MILLIONS of us have been against this lie from the beginning and in the words of Mark Twain,

"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot."
- Notebook, 1904


IMPEACH ALL of them that ever supported this murder of innocents in our name, Impeach everyone of them that made our gasoline smell like blood!

Peace

[ProSense]

37. I don't think the Methodist Church leaders ever supported the war!

Published on Sunday, October 20, 2002 by the Observer/UK
Iraq War 'Unjustifiable', says Bush's Church Head
by Ed Vulliamy in New York

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1020-02.htm



Board of Church and Society calls for withdrawal from Iraq
Jim Winkler
Oct. 19, 2005
By Mark Schoeff Jr.*
WASHINGTON (UMNS) - On a day when officials at the State Department were monitoring the results of a constitutional referendum in Iraq, a couple of miles away in a local hotel the United Methodist Board of Church and Society passed a resolution calling on the United States to withdraw its troops from the country.

http://www.umc.org/site/c.gjJTJbMUIuE/b.1118121/k.8ABD/Board_of_Church_and_Society_calls_for_withdrawal_from_Iraq.htm

[Point-X]

39. Yes they did. I have seen this with my own eyes, in NC, AL, GA, SC, TN, VA

They most certainly did and showed it with their VOTE. I am not claiming that the methodists ever made a "public policy" statement in support of this war, I am simply telling you I have personally listened to preacher after preacher "teach" the importance of being behind this leadership regardless.

I really do not wish to "fight" anyone here in this "democratic" forum. For the most part we appear to all be aligned with reality. War is bad, globalization only makes the rich richer, jobs being exported sucks, 5.2 million service industry jobs created is NOT equal to the 10 Million (or so) manufacturing jobs LOST to China, Pakistan, India, et al, murder of innocent people is wrong even if you have no God, bush and his worker bees care nothing of us our our rights, telling someone else how they must live is pretty much like bush saying that we ought not to be in the nation building business.

I grew up in Texas, I have seen the "compassion" he is capable of dishing out. I have lived in the state that once used to stand for something besides being death penalty capital deployment center of the universe. I also will never forget, bush never was and never will be a Texan.

And yes, these methodist preachers, predominately republican, are behind whatever makes it possible for their stocks to increase in value including all that means.

Peace

[Captain Hilts]

40. I think the Methodists officially opposed the war from the get-go. nt

[Bridget Burke]

62. Many Christian leaders in the US & the UK opposed the invasion of Iraq

This petition was signed by Protestant, Roman Catholic & Orthodox representatives.

www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=action.us-uk_statement

The Southern Baptist Convention stood alone by finding "justification" for the war.

www.spiritrestoration.org/War%20with%20Iraq%20justified%20according%20to%20biblical%20standard.htm

[AspenRose]

84. No, they didn't.

There is a difference between local pastors and the official level UMC leadership. UMC is a big enough tent that my UMC is split down the middle 50/50 (which made for an interesting election year in the congregation).

The majority of the official UMC leadership has been against this war from the beginning. Individual pastors may have supported it, but there is a RW movement within the UMC (and other protestant denominations) called the CONFESSING MOVEMENT and there are "Confessing" pastors affiliated with it. They are usually hard right in their politics, in comparison with the average UMC leaders, especially in their anti-gay stance, and they are funded by RW think tanks.

What you heard were individual pastors, not the official church stance.

[SunDrop23]

88. Exactly.

Let's (figuratively speaking) not paint a picture of the UMC as this bastion of liberalism. True we have some progressive social principles, but I'd venture to say well more than half of people who call themselves (United) Methodists have no clue what the positions of the church are on popular issues. This is underscored by the prevalence of pro-what's his face stickers and other paraphernalia on cars in UMC parking lots (at least in my area). And I can find plenty of UMC pastors who view anyone who disapproves of what chucklenuts is doing as a Jesus hating and un-American.

[Hekate]

95. I kept track. EVERY major denom in the US (except So Baptists) rebuked *

I kept track. The governing bodies of EVERY major denomination in the US (except the Southern Baptist Convention) rebuked Bush and Cheney during the run-up to the invasion of Iraq. And I mean all of them.

Now, the interesting thing is that while the governing boards were composed of people sophisticated enough to understand the ancient Christian distinction between a "just war" and an "unjust war", apparently the message didn't make it to the average pulpit and pew. There was a disconnect.

The Southern Baptists, though, were with Bush. There the conflation of Christianity and the USA is pretty complete.

Hekate

[liberaltrucker]

38. I just sent an email to the Methodist Church

www.umc.org

Commending Rev Winkler. As a Methodist, I'm appalled that * and Pickles
claim my Church as theirs. Please contact UMC and express your support.

[cease_fire]

41. Well it's about Fucking Time. EOM

[banana republican]

43. don't impeach; EXCOMMUNICATE THE SOB

condemn the SOB to HELL.

(as if HE gives a rats ass)

but to the majority of middle america it does make a difference. It gives politicians an "excuse" (as if any is needed) to condemn the SOB....

[trebor007]

45. I'm No More Comfortable Impeaching Bush ...

in the name of God then I am going to war in God's name. There are plenty of legitimate reasons under the law to impeach Bush without brining God into it. That's a slippery slope.

http://www.intrepidliberaljournal.blogspot.com

[insanity]

49. Proud to be a United Methodist today!

My church leaders keep it real again!

[CoolOnion]

53. Me, too!

[AspenRose]

78. Me three

United Methodists Call for Accountable Leadership
Written by Courtney Ball & Josh Steward
Wednesday, 01 September 2004
Sign the Letter of Complaint

Who are we?
We are United Methodists bringing a letter of complaint against United Methodist Church members George W. Bush and Richard "Dick" Cheney for their chargeable offenses of crime, immorality, disobedience to the order and discipline of The United Methodist Church (UMC), and dissemination of doctrine contrary to the established standards of doctrine of The UMC. We are calling for accountability and repentance from these two members for their sinful behavior. This specific letter of complaint originates from two United Methodist members, Rev. Courtney Ball and Josh Steward, from the Iowa Annual Conference, but we are encouraging anyone who reads the letter below and agrees with it to sign their name to the letter as well. When the letter has had time to circulate and gain signatures, it will be presented to the various recipients listed on the letter in order that they may investigate the claims and push for a resolution to the complaint.

Our hope:
Our hope is that George W. Bush and Dick Cheney (respondents) will recognize the sinfulness of their actions, sincerely repent for what they have done, and move on to change their ways. Although we recognize the improbability of that outcome, we believe that with God all things are possible.

If, however, they do not repent sincerely, immediately, and publicly for their chargeable offenses, we believe that the respondents should have their membership revoked from The United Methodist Church until such time that they see the error of their ways and wish to return.

Why are we doing this?
We are taking this action as Christians who are desperate to hold two of our own accountable. We, as United Methodists, understand that it is our duty to support and encourage our members and our leaders, and we have been doing so faithfully through prayers and petitions. But enough is enough. The guidance of our bishops and our church-members has been ignored by the respondents for too long. Too many people have died or suffered from the sins of these two men. Now it is time for them to answer for their actions with repentance, to turn back and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, or to be judged for not doing so.

Read and Sign the Letter:
Read the letter of complaint, and if you are a member of the United Methodist Church, add your name to the list of signatures. The more signatures we get, the clearer the message is that we will not stand for two of our own perpetrating these crimes against humanity.

http://theymustrepent.com/

The original petition was here:
http://www.petitiononline.com/tmrloc03/petition.html

and you can find various bishops' statements here:
http://theymustrepent.com/component/option,com_weblinks/catid,70/Itemid,52/

[orleans]

50. that's the spirit! throw him out of his church, throw him out of the

white house and get him the hell out of the country!

[CoolOnion]

55. How 'bout Mars?

Remember when he was talking about sending "human missions to Mars and to worlds beyond"? How 'bout starting with the Bush family?

(White House Press Briefing, President Bush Announces New Vision for Space Exploration Program
January 14, 2004, http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/01/20040114-3.html)

[Pacifist Patriot]

56. *shudder* I do not like this at all. I find it gut-wrenching in fact.

Congress should impeach President Bush "to advance the kingdom of God."

Congress should impeach President Bush because he has broken the law and violated his oath to uphold and defend the U.S. Constitution.

In his view, "there was nothing Christian" in President Bush's response to the 9/11 attacks.

There was nothing Islamic, pagan, Buddhist or atheist in his response either.

I'm sorry. I appreciate the idea a religious body supports impeachment, but the reasons given are every bit as distasteful to me as the Christian far right's reasons for supporting things the administration has done.

Note: Although I am a UU, I was confirmed United Methodist in the eighth grade. I'm well aware the denomination is nothing like the Fristians.

[wake.up.america]

57. Religiom and State are seperate. Bush should be impeached...

not because of religious reasons, but because he is destroying the nation.

[ProSense]

58. This is a Methodist minister.

He has every right to speak out. He did not say impeach Bush in the name of God. He said impeach Bush to advance the kingdom of God: that would be the nation, people here on earth.

The Church opposes war. When Pope John Paul II spoke out about the war, nobody freaked out.

Impeach Bush because the war is unjust and inhumane. That is the message. This is not the first time Jim Winkler has spoke out against the war and Bush's policy in Iraq.


Published on Sunday, October 20, 2002 by the Observer/UK
Iraq War 'Unjustifiable', says Bush's Church Head
by Ed Vulliamy in New York

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1020-02.htm


Board of Church and Society calls for withdrawal from Iraq
Jim Winkler
Oct. 19, 2005
By Mark Schoeff Jr.*
WASHINGTON (UMNS) - On a day when officials at the State Department were monitoring the results of a constitutional referendum in Iraq, a couple of miles away in a local hotel the United Methodist Board of Church and Society passed a resolution calling on the United States to withdraw its troops from the country.

http://www.umc.org/site/c.gjJTJbMUIuE/b.1118121/k.8ABD/Board_of_Church_and_Society_calls_for_withdrawal_from_Iraq.htm

[Pacifist Patriot]

63. I never said he did not have a right to speak out.

My UU denomination has spoken out against the invasion of Iraq and opposes violence to resolve conflict in general. Heck, our denominational president was arrested for protesting the genocide in the Sudan in front of the Sudanese embassy in Washington. I have no problem with religious figures voicing their political opinions. As a political activist who is also a minister I'd be quite the hypocrit now, wouldn't it?

But speaking out in opposition of administration policy is different from the quotes given here. I remain uncomfortable with his reason for impeachment.

We'll have to disagree on the definition of "kingdom of God." Clearly you and I do not view it the same way.

[JPZenger]

59. United Methodist Church

The United Methodist Church generally tries to stay out of controversial topics, such as abortion and gay marriage. The UMC is very diverse with many liberal and conservative churches, and they try to avoid the splits that have occurred in other denominations. In fact, the UMC likes to say they have no headquarters. The decisionmaking is decentralized, and there is little dogma.

One of the positive things about the UMC is that they do not have a rigid hierarchy of bishops sending down orders from above. The UMC bishops don't seem to exercise a great deal of power. Most major decisions are made through conferences of representatives from throughout the country.

The exception is the social issues committee in Washington. They include very liberal people who are outspoken, but they don't represent the whole denomination. There is a conservative group that spends much energy attacking the liberal social issues group. The conservative group is actually one political organization in the shadows that formed a whole set of conservative attack front organizations - one for each Protestant denomination. The one for UMC is United Methodist Action. They pretend to be an entirely UMC organization. Their goal is to get Protestant denominations to not speak out on liberal political issues.

[ProSense]

60. While that may be the case,

there is united opposition to the war:

Ad asks president to repent of foreign, domestic policies

4/24/2003
By United Methodist News Service

A one-page advertisement in The Christian Century magazine, signed by more than 100 United Methodists, has called on U.S. President George Bush to "repent" of certain domestic and foreign policies, including the use of violence in dealing with Iraq.

The ad, titled, "A Prophetic Epistle from United Methodists Calling Our Brother George W. Bush to Repent," appeared in the magazine's April 5 issue.

The message was written and signed before U.S.-led forces began military action against Iraq on March 19, explained the Rev. Jennifer Kimball Casto, a signer and pastor of New Life United Methodist Church in Columbus, Ohio.

more...

http://archives.umc.org/umns/news_archive2003.asp?ptid=2&story=%7B8F83433F-4AE2-41F5-8955-AD4AB0DF7F75%7D&mid=2406

From this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2643436&mesg_id=2643592

[paparush]

66. WTG REV!!!

[twaddler01]

67. Thank you...

we need more people to think like this...

[DianaForRussFeingold]

73. Thank God, Someone is willing to speak the true message from God.

:dem:Thank you for posting and keep up the good fight. I wish all the churches would start to preach, Gods true message of peace and love. Here is a link to a video made by a 15year old very brave girl, from Alabama.:patriot: Peace takes courage; What would Jesus Do?:cry: Very Moving and Warning 'pictures are disturbing':cry: http://peacetakescourage.cf.huffingtonpost.com/animations/wwjd.html :kick:

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

74. The Snake

He/Bush is only a Christian when it scores points with the blind that he leads. Otherwise he is a sniveling coward and the 'war president.'

[Hosnon]

75. Stay out of politics Rev...nt

[Dr Fate]

77. Yeah- leave the tough impeachment talk to the Minority Leader!!!!

;)

[Douglas Carpenter]

83. yeah, someone should have told Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. that too

who did he think he was?

[Hosnon]

89. That scenario is an exception that I think we can all acknowledge. This

guy gets nowhere close to Martin Luther King, Jr.

[Douglas Carpenter]

90. I'm still happier to see religious leaders on the side of peace

and justice than on the side of war and intolerance.

I think we can all acknowledge.

[Hosnon]

91. Of course - But as a rule, I'd prefer they not inject politics into what

they preach.

[ProSense]

93. Now more than ever! n/t

[texpatriot2004]

97. This Preacher-man is right. Impeach * NOW! nm