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ALago1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:24 AM
Original message
I want Hillary to run...
Keep in mind however, that she is not my candidate. If I had my way she would not make it past the primaries, but I think having her as a candidate would be good for the party as a whole. This is simply because of the sheer publicity the Dems would get if she were to run.

Think about it. Aside from political junkies like ourselves, most Americans are pretty unaware of the primaries and thus it's hard to get the message out to people not already solidy converted to one side or the other. If Hillary keeps getting large scale national media attention, more people in turn will then be made more aware of the Democratic message and their alternatives to another Republican administration.

Any press and attention would be good for us during primary season. If Hillary ran such things would be much greater than usual...
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
1. I can see how her running would have the opposite effect to the one you
wish for.

By dint of her wide name recognition and the extraordinarily hardened and polarized views for or against her, she sumply sucks the air out of any room in which she's not accompanied by her husband.

I'd rather the rest of the fireld gets some attention.

Then there's the whole secondary issue that she doesn't speak very well for a lot of Democrats.
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ALago1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Do you think...
...she's still going to play Mrs. Triangulator with the more conservative Dems during primary season? Wouldn't that be pretty stupid strategy-wise since the object of the primaries is to lean further left to capture more of the base?
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. I support her as a Senator from New York
I do not support her for President. I also don't think very much about her. The wide news coverage she's getting now is a media driven thing with no basis in fact or reality. What I think she'll do is pretty much meaningless because I've not honestly given it a lot of thought. Might she triangulate? Might a fish use gills to breathe? Of course she will. So what?

That worked well for Bill.

She's not Bill.
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AlGore-08.com Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. In 2004, most of the primary candidates focused on conservative Dems
And when Dean's "I represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party" spiel started to gain him a major Netroots following, the counter strategy by the other Dems was "I'm more electable because I'm not that liberal". During one debate, the candidates were asked who thought Dean could actually win a national election and Dean was the only one who said "yes". (Kucinich, to his credit, complained bitterly to the moderator that he should be asking them about their positions.) Kerry especially pitched himself as the most electable of the candidates, and that (plus superior ground strategy) got him the win in Iowa.

So whether it would be stupid strategy in 2008 or not, it's definitely possible that HRC (or any other Dem) could emphasize positions that appeal to conservative Dems, in order to prove that she/he is the best candidate for a general election.
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ALago1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. I remember that.
The whole "electability" issue was ridiculous and stupid. I think the only reason it was brought up was because Dean was essentially this nobody that was gaining widespread recognition. I don't think the notion of "electability" necessarily meant more moderate though as Kerry was in some ways even more liberal than Dean.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Kerry did not run as "more electable"
Find me any link with Kerry saying anything to the effect of "i'm more electable." that was not in respomse to a question. Kerry's answer in the debate makes sense - if the question were the other way around and Dean were asked if Kerry were electable, he would not answer just "yes", either. They were competitors. If Kerry's answer moved people, it was obviously a great answer with compelling reasons given.

Although, Kerry has always disliked labels, he actually addressed Dean's Democratic wing rhethoric by introducing Senator Kennedy as the real representative of the Democratic wing of the Democratic party. May be part of the problem was that Dean tried to run as a liberal when in reality he was a moderate. (The danger of that is that people who would have liked him for what he was, ruled him out without looking and many looking for a liberal were disenchanted when they looked at his real record. I was in the latter group.)
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
2. She's going to raise a ton of money...
and the Dems are going to need it.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. And this is the real pisser about our system.
Holy crap. When are people going to realize we need publicly funded elections?

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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. I think people realize it...
the problem is that the people that we are dependant on to "fix" the system, have no motivation to do so, as they are direct beneficiaries of it. I think it would take a widespread civil uprising to change the status quo at this point. "The people" simply can't compete with the corporate financing of our politicians.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Kerry wrote the Clean Elections legislation that he and Wellstone
sponsored. When he first introduced it in 1996, Kerry in his floor speech acknowledged it would get less than 20 votes, but explained it was needed as a goal that we had to reach at some point. Here are Kerry's comments. If you have time, please read them as he is saying very much what you are saying.

From the Senate record:

Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, I want to speak before you today about a critical challenge before this Senate--the challenge of reforming the way in which elections are conducted in the United States; the challenge of ending the ``moneyocracy'' that has turned our elections into auctions where public office is sold to the highest bidder. I want to implore the Congress to take meaningful steps this year to ban soft money, strengthen the Federal Election Commission, provide candidates the opportunity to pay for their campaigns with clean money, end the growing trend of dangerous sham issue ads, and meet the ultimate goal of restoring the rights of average Americans to have a stake in their democracy. Today I am proud to join with my colleague from Minnesota, PAUL WELLSTONE, to introduce the ``Clean Money'' bill which I believe will help all of us entrusted to shape public policy to arrive at a point where we can truly say we are rebuilding Americans' faith in our democracy.
For the last 10 years, I have stood before you to push for comprehensive campaign reform. We have made nips and tucks at the edges of the system, but we have always found excuses to hold us back from making the system work. It's long past time that we act--in a comprehensive way--to curtail the way in which soft money and the big special interest dollars are crowding ordinary citizens out of this political system.
Today the political system is being corrupted because there is too much unregulated, misused money circulating in an environment where candidates will do anything to get elected and where, too often, the special interests set the tone of debate more than the political leaders or the American people. Just consider the facts for a moment. The rising cost of seeking political office is outrageous. In 1996, House and Senate candidates spent more than $765 million, a 76% increase since 1990 and a six fold increase since 1976. Since 1976, the average cost for a winning Senate race went from $600,000 to $3.3 million, and in the arms race for campaign dollars in 1996 many of us were forced to spend significantly more than that. In constant dollars, we have seen an increase of over 100 percent in the money spent for Senatorial races from 1980 to 1994. Today Senators often spend more time on the phone ``dialing for dollars'' than on the Senate floor. The average Senator must raise $12,000 a week for six years to pay for his or her re-election campaign.
But that's just the tip of the iceberg. The use of soft money has exploded. In 1988, Democrats and Republicans raised a combined $45 million in soft money. In 1992 that number doubled to reach $90 million and in 1995-96 that number tripled to $262 million. This trend continues in this cycle. What's the impact of all that soft money? It means that the special interests are being heard. They're the ones with the influence. But ordinary citizens can't compete. Fewer than one third of one percent of eligible voters donated more than $250 in the electoral cycle of 1996. They're on the sidelines in what is becoming a coin-operated political system.
The American people want us to act today to forge a better system. An NBC/Wall Street Journal poll shows that 77% of the public believes that campaign finance reform is needed ``because there is too much money being spent on political campaigns, which leads to excessive influence by special interests and wealthy individuals at the expense of average people.'' Last spring a New York Times found that an astonishing 91% of the public favor a fundamental transformation of this system.
Cynics say that the American people don't care about campaign finance. It's not true. Citizens just don't believe we'll have the courage to act--they're fed up with our defense of the status quo. They're disturbed by our fear of moving away from this status quo which is destroying our democracy. Soft money, political experts tell us, is good for incumbents, good for those of us within the system already. Well, nothing can be good for any elected official that hurts our democracy, that drives citizens out of the process, and which keeps politicians glued to the phone raising money when they ought to be doing the people's business. Let's put aside the status quo, and let's act today to restore our democracy, to make it once more all that the founders promised it could be.
Let us pass the Clean Mo ney Bill to restore faith in our government in this age when it has been so badly eroded.
Let us recognize that the faith in government and in our political process which leads Americans to go to town hall meetings, or to attend local caucuses, or even to vote--that faith which makes political expression worthwhile for ordinary working Americans--is being threatened by a political system that appears to reward the special interests that can play the game and the politicians who can game the system.
Each time we have debated campaign finance reform in this Senate, too many of our colleagues have safeguarded the status quo under the guise of protecting the political speech of the Fortune 500. But today we must pass campaign finance reform to protect the political voice of the 250 million ordinary, working Americans without a fortune. It is their dwindling faith in our political system that must be restored.
Twenty five years ago, I sat before the Foreign Relations Committee, a young veteran having returned from Vietnam. Behind me sat hundreds of veterans committed to ending the war the Vietnam War. Even then we questioned whether ordinary Americans, battle scarred veterans, could have a voice in a political system where the costs of campaigns, the price of elected office seemed prohibitive. Young men who had put their life on the front lines for their country were worried that the wall of special interests between the people and their government might have been too thick even then for our voices to be heard in the corridors of power in Washington, D.C.
But we had a reserve of faith left, some belief in the promise and the influence of political expression for all Americans. That sliver of faith saved lives. Ordinary citizens stopped a war that had taken 59,000 American lives.

Every time in the history of this republic when we have faced a moral challenge, there has been enough faith in our democracy to stir the passions of ordinary Americans to act--to write to their Members of Congress; to come to Washington and speak with us one on one; to walk door to door on behalf of issues and candidates; and to vote on election day for people they believe will fight for them in Washington.
It's the activism of citizens in our democracy that has made the American experiment a success. Ordinary citizens--at the most critical moments in our history--were filled with a sense of efficacy. They believed they had influence in their government.
Today those same citizens are turning away from our political system. They believe the only kind of influence left in American politics is the kind you wield with a checkbook. The senior citizen living on a social security check knows her influence is inconsequential compared to the interest group that can saturate a media market with a million dollars in ads that play fast and loose with the facts. The mother struggling to find decent health care for her children knows her influence is trivial compared to the special interests on K Street that can deliver contributions to incumbent politicians struggling to stay in office.
But I would remind you that whenever our country faces a challenge, it is not the special interests, but rather the average citizen, who holds the responsibility to protect our nation. The next time our nation faces a crisis and the people's voice needs to be heard to turn the tide of history, will the average American believe enough in the process to give words to the feelings beyond the beltway, the currents of public opinion that run beneath the surface of our political dialogue?
In times of real challenge for our country in the years to come, will the young people speak up once again? Not if we continue to hand over control of our political system to the special interests who can infuse the system with soft money and with phony television ads that make a mockery of the issues.
The children of the generation that fought to lower the voting age to 18 are abandoning the voting booth themselves. Polls reveal they believe it is more likely that they'll be abducted by aliens than it is that their vote will make a real difference. For America's young people the MTV Voter Participation Challenge ``Choose or Lose'' has become a cynical joke. In their minds, the choice has already been lost--lost to the special interests. That is a loss this Senate should take very seriously. That is tremendous damage done to our democracy, damage we have a responsibility in this Senate to repair. Mr. President, with this legislation we are introducing today, we can begin that effort--we can repair and revitalize our political process, and we can guarantee ``clean el ections'' fu nded by ``clean mo ney,'' elections wh ere our citizens are the ones who make the difference

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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
4. Sure. Why not.
Then we can spend an entire campaign discussing flag burning instead of flag covered coffins.
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ALago1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Hillary is a smart, shrewd woman
She knows such smokescreens don't work when courting fellow Democrats. I am pretty confident that the primaries wouldn't devolve into those sort of non-issues.
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Dunvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. Hillary does act like a smear-magnet and filter for other Dems running.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
7. God bless Hillary Clinton!
To bad she is not running, she would make a fine President!
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WA98296 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
10. Fools! She is ANOTHER CORPORATIST. That is THE problem with this country.
When are you ever going to figure it out? What has Hilary EVER DONE to promote a liberal agenda?

For Christ's sake, she isn't going to send this country in the right direction. She's the Republican party's wet dream for a dem candidate. Lots of hate and discontent for DISTRACTION, while she actually promotes a republican corporate agenda. Repubs can not lose with her.

No problem though, it is the corporate media machine's choice who the dem nominee is -- so she WILL be the nominee.
Congrats...and you thought it was up to us. You're Fools.

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ALago1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. This is not the issue I addressed in my OP
Her actual positions are irrelevant to this discussion, imo. This thread is specifically focusing on the unintended positive consequences of her running...
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itzamirakul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Hillary...UGH! PUKE!
Edited on Thu May-25-06 09:25 AM by itzamirakul


She is my Senator and I don't even support her for THAT job.

She has been a MAJOR disappointment to ME.
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Plus if she wins the prez in '08
they will use it to dispel that nasty talk about election fraud. Too bad that more people don't see that by controlling the vote they also control who our candidates are.
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Connie_Corleone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Nevermind.
Edited on Thu May-25-06 08:58 AM by Connie_Corleone
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paparush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
18. "...out in front of a bus?"
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
19. Let her run.
Running and winning are two different things.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-25-06 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
22. If you want the Democratic primaries to become a polarizing spectacle
in which antiwar demonstrators become a permanent fixture at every Hillary event, then you should want Hillary to run.
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