Attention American Stupids, all 63.4 million of you.

[Stinky The Clown]

I'm talking to the 63.4 million of you who voted for American Idol.

You know, that fake bullshit reality show you all caused the media to go all atwtitter about? The one where they manufacture feuds between Paula Adbul and that beligernet asshole show sits next to her? The show where people compete for a fucking **entertainment** contract. The show where, in the overal scheme of the life of you or your children, NOTHING FUCKING MATTERS.

Well, given your propensity to follow that bullshit while sticking your stupid fucking heads up your worthless fucking asses when it comes to MEANINGFUL SHIT, stay away from the fucking polling places in Novemeber.

You are TOO FUCKING STUPID to vote.

You, in a word, America's **STUPIDS** ..... and so shall I refer to you.

[fooj]

1. Well said!

[bowens43]

2. Take a valium.

[Jaydog]

Well said!!!!

I haven't seen any of the dumb show and was saying to my wife last night (after being hammered with news about it and everyone talking about it constantly) "with all the real important shit going on, this is what people are focusing on?"

We are doomed!

JayDog

[bdamomma]

4. I never have watched it neither, for matter of fact

I don't watch any reality shows. what a waste of time.

[bdamomma]

3. I guess the Idol is more of a priority

to these people than having our civil rights being eroded everyday, how can people be in such denial or have blinders on. Take them off, and pay attention to what is happening in your country.

[TwilightZone]

5. Keep in mind that people can vote more than once, so the real

number of people participating is likely much lower than the numbers reported. Some people vote literally hundreds of times.

That being said, the market share was something like 35, so there are definitely a lot of people watching. Pretty scary.

[redqueen]

6. You too, pal.

I'm an activist, and I ALSO happen to like American Idol.

So please kindly shove your elitist rant right where it belongs. Sideways. :)

that goes out to anyone who agrees with the OP, as well :hi:

[sui generis]

14. what she said

[juajen]

32. You tell 'em, redqueen

I don't think the brouhaha over "Idol" is louder than "Super Bowl Fever". At least the advertising dollars are close.

I am not ashamed that I watch this show. I enjoy it. BTW, I spend a hell of a lot more time on DU than I spend watching this once-a-week show.

What is this animosity about, really? The show is basically one hour a week. I usually find out who was ousted the day after, as there is something else I do when results are on; so, basically, I spend one hour a week for what is maybe twelve weeks of AI? Even adding on the extra finale hours, this is less than 24 hours. So, what bugs everybody so about AI?

Perhaps we could have an honest discussion about this difference of opinion.

Here is my honest opinion. I love music, and new, inspiring talent. I do not watch sitcoms, soaps or any other reality shows. I do spend hours and hours in the fall watching my husband watch football, both college and NFL. During this season, my husband watches as many as three or four games a week. Since each game lasts around two hours, you can see where a football fan spends much more time watching football than an idol fan watching singers.

I never vote on AI. I honestly believe that at least half of those votes are from teenagers and repeat voting.

Get off your high horse, please, and do, explain, if you can, why you hate this show so much.

BTW, I always watch "House" afterward, and it's an hour show. So, where's your rant about this show?

[redqueen]

38. I usually vote for my favorite!

However, this year I was quite taken with one of the contestants, and I didn't just vote, I POWER VOTED!

Yes, I spent lots of time doing things around the house that I would normally do with both hands with only one hand, so that I could dial a phone and support the contestant whom I wanted to win.

:)

[dae]

105. An activist and a POWER VOTER, if you're not from Louisiana, we

sure could use you.:toast::yourock:

[Clark2008]

157. It's elistist not to like American "Idle?"

Sorry, honey, but I'm a red-blooded American born and reared in the heartland South and I think the show is a time-wasting piece of reality trash. I've never earned enough to even be thought of as wealthy, much less "elite."

You can like American Idle all you want, but the fact remains that it's really not more important than the thousands who have died as a result of this mis-Administration, now is it? These millions who watched this idiotic show should be out marching to protect their civil rights, to end the unnecessary war and/or to demand national healthcare insurance, first. Only THEN should they take some time off to watch a two-bit talent show.

That's just my opinion.

[redqueen]

159. didn't even bother to read all that since you missed the point

it's not elitist not to like american IDOL, it's elitist to say anyone who does it stupid and does not or should not vote

clearer?

[JuniperLea]

7. We accidently watched two minutes worth last nigt whilst channel surfing..

Havarti!

[YOY]

8. I watched about 5minutes worth of it last year

It is five minutes of my life that I want back.

Actually, I think there are a few DUers that love this phenomenon...don't ask me why. It's so insulting to one's intelligence that I fear prolonged exposure would cause severe 'mind tapioca.'

[Radical Activist]

9. I watched 5 minutes for the first time this season.

Its just bad. The music is bad, they aren't very good singers, and its completely devoid of creativity. I couldn't stand it. There are thousands of performers who have more skill that are overlooked by the crappy corporate music machine.

[mrcheerful]

10. Sis in law, oh she got a contract and had the number one country song of

the year for "her" song "god is the driver" or some stupid ass religious BS. Sis in law just thought she was great and she worked hard to get it. ROFLMAO sis in law, why do you vote, it means nothing besides theres no one I really like.

Sis in law suffers from deep depression so what makes her feel better? You got it C&W music thats so depressing that after 3 minutes I want to take a gun and blow my head off. Sorry to say but sis in law is one of the many idiots out there that can't grasp that she's not a victim of the world shes caused all of her own troubles.

These are your non voters, to them its about who is dating whom in this weeks soaps, who wins survivior and who gets the prize of a contract for winning american idol, after all that proves that they too can get ahead by doing nothing.

BTW, did I mention sis in law is a free loading slut? Her last job lasted 3 weeks before she quit, she quit because it interfered with her sex life, her boy friends gf worked conflicting hours so if she kept working she'd never see him.

Americans can be the stupidist animals that ever walked the earth.

[redqueen]

11. ahem, hello? i'm a voter, and i love the show

your username really clashes with that post there, btw :)

[mrcheerful]

31. Really, of course you have no ideal of what sis in law has caused either.

I know far more people like her that don't vote then I do that do. Damn right I'm not cheerful when I see what these idiots have done to the country. BTW, sis in law thinks shrub is a wonderful prez.

[redqueen]

33. I agree with you about what "they've" done to the country...

however, people who watch AI do not fall into my definition of "they" since I happen to know for a fact that I'm not the only liberal, thinking person, activist, or voter watching and enjoying the show.

:hi:

[mrcheerful]

42. Well if it offers you an escape for an hour a week, no problem, but sis

in law has her whole life tied up in these shows and shes pretty much trying to live life through these type of shows. I mean come on, Conservatives think "leave it to Beaver" was a documentary about the late 50's and early 60's. When you hear about the good old days from them, thats where they got their ideals from TV shows. As well as most of their understanding of the history of america.

[redqueen]

44. I agree, but that can also be said about people who use any sort of drug

some of them use responsibly, and some of them become addicts and use that activity irresponsibly.

I don't demonize drug users or reality-tv watchers... I still do demonize republicans, though... no way to be responsible while you're electing the people more loyal to their party than their country.

[mrcheerful]

56. Actually drug addiction isn't about choice, in the 1950's there was a

study done on alcoholics and some interesting facts came out. One of those was an addictive personality is inherited through a persons genes. They cross referenced it with a study of native americans who have a higher concentration of alcoholics then any other group. BTW, its called impulsive/compulsive behavior and believe it or not most fundies have the same problem with religion. People who live for TV shows are also addicts, they use it to make themselves feel better. Its very strange how the human mind can work, though interesting at times too.

[redqueen]

63. Agreed on all points...

however regarding choice... we know there are addicts who can control their addictions, so... there kinda still is a choice there.

And yes, it is fascinating.

[stellanoir]

12. Happy to give you your fifth rec on this one

you funny person :)

WBUR's "On Point" radio show on NPR devoted a whole bloody hour to this bizarre phenomenon this morning. It'll replay this evening with some affiliates. They'll have the show archived by tomorrow.

They spoke of why it garnered so much interest for so many reinforcing the now nearly extinct delusion of the American Dream. They also said after 9/11 our culture craves escapism even moreso than before. It was interesting but I didn't give it my full attention because I was writing and listening to two other radio stations simultaneously.

Then I wonder why I'm so often confused.

on edit- Newsflash: didya know that English is NOW the official language of America???

Now there's some really significant legislation. . .duh

Earth shattering it is. No wonder so many tune out. We no longer have a representative legislature but let's argue about flag burning some more okay???

[bvar22]

13. You know,

I agree with your opinion about the relative worth of these shows.......BUT, maybe we need to acknowlege the fact that these people exist in the MULTIPLE MILLIONS, and find someway to mine their votes. Between the Idol Worshippers anf The NASCAR Dads there are enough votes to run this country.

Answer this question and WIN the BIGGEST PRIZE in the History of the World:
Why do these people feel that voting for the Idol makes a difference, but voting for a politician doesn't?

[Stinky The Clown]

17. Two words

Media

Laziness

Then are a bunch of corollary words ..... like selfish, dullness, numbness, unawareness, incurious, uncaring, and on and on and on.

[ladjf]

18. My wife is a ardent fan of American Idol. And she is very interested

in politics and most definitely always votes in political elections. I don't get the animosity here about people enjoying American Idol. It's just harmless entertainment.

[redqueen]

25. I don't get the animosity either...

nor the reluctance to actually DISCUSS the matter with anyone they disagree with.

Baffling.

[Stinky The Clown]

35. I'm happy to discuss it with you

Sorry I wasn't quick enough to reply.

Here's the thing ...... the show is harmless tripe. If you enjoy it, fine.

But it has beome so much more than that. It is taking the place of actual news. And far too many people are paying far too much attention to it. Everyone can name the hometown and repertoire of this contestent or that, but, per National Geographic, so many can't New York of the US map, let alone Afghanistan.

My issue is that it is emblematic of a world turned upside down and the gone awry. It isn't that show, in and of itself. It is the issue that show represents.

[redqueen]

36. You could say all those things about sports, too.

Do you hate sports and all its fans with equal gusto?

[Stinky The Clown]

41. Who said anything about 'hate'?

[grace0418]

45. Maybe you didn't actually use the word "hate" but your vitriol was pretty

blatant. In you OP you painted everyone who watches AI with a pretty wide brush and said you'd refer to all of them as American Stupids. Sounds pretty hateful to me.

[redqueen]

46. Okay, contempt? Pick your word...

Whatever it is you feel for all of AI's fans that prompted you to insult us all by calling us "Stupid"... let us know.

My point in asking that wasn't to nail down your reaction to AI fans, however... my point was to find out if this negative attitude, whatever you want to call it, is fairly applied. :)

[Stinky The Clown]

52. Read my replies downthread

Not to ignore you, but others have comments and I'm a slow typer

[redqueen]

64. Thanks

considerate of you to explain :)

[blondeatlast]

57. You know I'm a big fan of yours, H, so... You did say "tripe."

It's SUPPOSED to be harmless entertainment but the producers, etc. have manipulated the press into making it far more.

I don't think it's fair to blame those who enjoy the show and keep it in perspective.

I watch virtually no tv whatsoever, but I won't judge anyone who does.

It's a tough life for all of us, and I don't care how someone chooses to escapre from it as long as it's legal and moral.

I say more than a little slack is owed in this case.

More flies to honey and all that.

[Stinky The Clown]

71. Blondie, you high heeled smart person .......

here's the thing ..... There's an underlying issue that few, on first reading, got. But now, if one rereads the thread, one will at least understand where I was coming from. Simply, the thread inflamed. And got read. And I got flamed.

And that's okay.

Look at our recent dialogue (a discourse between only two people) on branding. That got a lot of play, huh? It was a real topic worthy of some discussion.

The issue here is not the show. Or people who watch it, my seeming vitriol aside. The issue is what that show and others of its genere, and in a larger sense, all the other shiny things that get waved and dangled, do, beyond entertain.

Its okay for teenagers to cry and swoon when Ed Sullivcan has Elvis or the Beatles on. But here we're seeing grownups get just as sucked in. And not just for one show. Some watch for the distraction/entertainment/whatever. But its scary to think how many get into this yet find reality a non starter.

Sure I know people watch ths show and also know what's going on in Realityville. But the reaction here was very telling. People owned that show. They were and are engaged. And took unmbrage at what I said as much as the intentionally over the top tone.

Which demonstrates the larger point. This type of shiny thing is our competition.

[Marnieworld]

83. So you were just trying to provoke a discussion?

Message Board performance Art? That's an interesting tactic and even though I disagreed with the content I kinda respect the creativity. Normally I dig your posts but I couldn't get why the big meanie attitude. My world makes sense again ;)

I do get your overall point though. I had the same rage about Survivor being on all of the news shows. Is it a coincedence that I never got why people watched that? hmmmm. I think in the case of the news coverage it is about ratings=$ bills y'all. If they cover a big ratings show they think they can scoop up the same group of people and boost their ratings. The overall problem is journalism as show business instead of something that Walter Cronkite would be proud of. When they actually have the singing competitions on the news we will have officially crossed over to the Cheyevsky vison in "Network" completely. So what you are really saying H2S is that you "are mad as hell and you are not going to take it anymore?"

[Stinky The Clown]

94. "are mad as hell and you are not going to take it anymore?"

In a manner of speaking, yes. :)

Read my sig line carefully.

Honestly, my intentions are pour and I'm really a gentle, thoughtful guy. I just hide that flaw really well.

[Marnieworld]

97. aw you big softie!

:hug:

[Stinky The Clown]

102. I just reread what I responded to from you, above ......

And yanno, I don't feel any rage at the people who watch that genre ... or even the ones who not only wtach, but get sucked in.

I really don't. The show itself, in an absence of context, is harmless and benign. And watching it, in that same absence of context, is also harmless and beign.

So rage is the way wrong word.

I haven't got the *right* word yet, but it isn't rage.

None of these words are right either: bemusement, disgust, amazement, chagrin, sadness, anger, dismissiveness ...... none of them are right.

[blondeatlast]

143. Your last sentence says it all. Too true.

We do need to engage these people but we can't expect much from them--hence the branding thing.

RW radio engages the same type of people--but those people DO vote and the RW Noise Machine knows how to engage them. Limbaugh is American Idol, just with RW talking points.

Really, I share your furstration.

[Brazenly Liberal]

81. Bullshit.

It is taking the place of actual news.

You didn't direct your tirade at the MSM. You directed it at people who watch the show. All the people who watch the show.

Everyone can name the hometown and repertoire of this contestent or that, but, per National Geographic, so many can't New York of the US map, let alone Afghanistan

You didn't direct your tirade at the poor education many Americans have gotten. You directed it at the people who watch the show. All the people who watch the show.

I don't suppose that from that ivory tower you've ensconced yourself in you can see the rabble down here clearly enough to know that many of us who are among the 63.4 million "too stupid to vote" do know where Afghanistan is, think the poor showing of geographic and scientific literacy among Americans is a disgrace, and also feel the news coverage was excessive.

Incidentally, the next time you're ready to make sweeping statements that others are "too stupid to vote," I'd recommend giving spell check a shot at your post. Otherwise, comparisons to Hugh Moran might be irresistible.

[redqueen]

86. :)

:hi:

[Stinky The Clown]

96. And would have paid one bit of atention to a thread on those topics?

You see, if you look at this thread as a message board version of a Kobuki Dance, you'll see how it all went down.

[Brazenly Liberal]

101. When my son was 4 years old,

he thought acting like an obnoxious brat was a good way to get attention, too. He grew out of it before he was 5.

I don't for a minute buy the absurd contention that you were just pretending to be a flaming jerk in an effort to stimulate discussion of two vital topics that you feel have been given too little attention here. If I did, I'd be tempted to point out what a spectacular failure the effort was and to tell you that if a 4 year old can outgrow that kind of childish behavior, you can, too, if you try.

[Stinky The Clown]

120. You're free to think whatever you want about me.

Really.

[Brazenly Liberal]

121. See there? We do agree on something.

Always nice to end on a positive note.

Though I must say I'm unlikely to get much use of that right. Frankly, sitting around thinking about you would be just as big a waste of time as watching AI, but without the entertainment value.

[Greyhound]

122. Entertainment? Possibly. Harmless? Definitely not!

While I would never disparage anybody's taste in entertainment or music, the show itself is emblematic of what went wrong in America.
There are a plethora of non-biased studies that indicate a strong correlation between the increase in time viewing TV and the decline is amerikans attention span and lack of intellectual curiosity.
We have presented here two facts;
In general, amerikans are appallingly ignorant of just about everything and AI is very, very popular.
Whether or not there is any causation is the question and I don't think it likely that anybody will ever investigate the possibility that there is.

[Stinky The Clown]

129. Bingo!

:thumbsup:

[redqueen]

24. For the third time... these two groups are not mutually exclusive.

I am a voter, an activist, and I love that show and vote for my favorite.

Why is this such a difficult concept for elitists to grasp?

[Brazenly Liberal]

55. What makes you think you need to "mine their votes"?

What makes you think a good percentage of them are not already voting? Already involved with the process? Already getting out there and campaigning for their candidate, who just might be a liberal Democrat?

I watched American Idol last night - after I had spent a good part of the afternoon in a meeting with a local business owner, discussing ways to maximize his $$$ commitment to unseating local Republicans in November. We came up with some pretty creative ideas and, in the end, he increased the amount of his commitment to help make it happen.

The prize winning question isn't " Why do these people feel that voting for the Idol makes a difference, but voting for a politician doesn't?" It's "Why do some people feel that making sweeping generalizations based in total ignorance is offensive when the Repugs do it, but brilliant insight into the human condition when someone who claims to be a liberal does it?"


edited to correct transposition of words. Yes, that's right, some people who watch American Idol are not restricted to one syllable words and crotch scratching.

[bvar22]

77. Whoa....unbunch the panties.

I'm sure that a segment of Idol Watchers do indeed vote.
If this group falls along National Averages, 50% DON'T vote (in political elections).
Of the 50% who DO vote, 1/2 vote Republican.
What makes you think the Democratic Part SHOULD'T mine (appeal to) this population?

I was responding mostly to the OP.
Instead of railing against the darkness, maybe we should light some candles?

I will make another GLOBAL statement:
It is always foolish to ignore MILLIONS of people. If your product isn't selling there, find ways to make your product appealing to these MILLIONS....don't curse them OR assume they are stupid.

[Brazenly Liberal]

92. I suspect I completely misinterpreted your post.

In fact, it looks like I couldn't have gotten your intent more wrong. I thought you were agreeing with the OP that anyone who watches the show is, by default, a completely uninvolved moron who is "too fucking stupid to vote."

I owe you an apology. A real apology, not one of those crappy "sorry if you saw yourself in there" non-apologies.

So here it is: I misunderstood you and then went off on a rant based on that misunderstanding. What I said was right, but directing it at you was wrong. I apologize. :toast:

[grace0418]

98. LOL! Now THAT's a real apology.

Thanks, that made me laugh out loud.

[Marnieworld]

15. Well that's one cranky clown today

It's possible to have more than one thought at a time in your head ya know? Many of us Duers are aware of "meaningful shit" and just watch this stuff as a moment's diversion from the horrible shitty state of things in the US and the world. There is nothing in your life that you can compare it to?

Are you familiar with the Duer "Ava" who recently was all the rage with her activism and movies? Well she has had threads about AI every week in the lounge and she is not stupid at all.

Some people follow sports. This is just another competition that's all. If you don't want to watch it fine, but there's no need for all of this anger and insults.

What I'm trying to say is, "I know you are but what am I? ;) :P

[grace0418]

34. Excellent! Exactly! It's all about balance. Good grief.

There is a lot of ENTERTAINMENT out there that is completely useless in the grand scheme of things. I agree that people who allow ANY form of entertainment to take over their lives need to wake up and start caring about important stuff. However, I don't begrudge people their temporary amusements and diversions. And I sure as hell don't lump everyone together like that.

I am an activist. I think about, talk about and take action about lots of IMPORTANT things. So what if I like to enjoy something dumb now and then? I haven't watched much AI this year and I've never voted, but I've enjoyed it now and then in the past.

Hey, at least American Idol isn't exploiting animals who get no say in whether or not they want to participate (unlike horse-racing, dog-racing, etc.), and at least AI doesn't use up vast amounts of fossil fools to amuse people (unlike NASCAR). Again, I'm not begrudging people their diversions, but I personally think other forms of entertainment are far more damaging than watching a bunch of silly kids do karaoke.

[stevietheman]

16. It's a great show. Don't be a twit. n/t

n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

20. Might its ratings ever be eclipsed by ... oh ... I dunno ......

the September 09 ImpeachmentShowdown?

GreatAmericanApprenticeRaceIsland is so much more meaningful .....

[redqueen]

28. How many people watched the Superbowl?

Voted for their favorite team in online polls and such? How many are watching the NBA playoffs?

Why is this even a concern to you?

I promise you this, your "you're stupid because you like something I don't" attitude isn't going to win one single solitary convert to your way of thinking. Ever.

[stevietheman]

146. Geez.... what a killjoy you are.

Are we not to have any joy in our lives, Miss Prissy?

[THUNDER HANDS]

19. 63.4 million people didn't vote

Probably closer to 3-6 million. The little girls just voted 20-30 times, probably.

[Stinky The Clown]

22. Do you recall, just a week or two ago ... there was a big brouhaha

.... over some miscounted votes in the prefinals of this Great American Event?

Did the irony of that affect just me?

[killerbush]

21. This post doesn't belong in politics

Either move it to general discussion or the DU lounge

[redqueen]

29. excellent observation!

seconded. :)

[Stinky The Clown]

40. This post actually DOES belong in politics

It is the height of politics. It is representative of what we face if we ever intend to have this country turn around discuss **real** issues on Main Street right alongside ths sort of diversion.

It isn't the show. It is what it represents about the people who live in this country and the media that aims to control them.

THAT is a politcal issue.

[redqueen]

48. I disagree... I think it's an anthropological issue...

these kinds of shows aren't just popular here, you know.

Truly, being a fan of these shows does not give anyone any insight into the fans' political ideals or the responsibility or irresponsibility of their recreational habits in general. So IMO no, it doesn't belong here. :)

[Ron Green]

50. If the OP smacks of elitism, then I say

we need lots more elitism.

Not only is the artistic level of this sort of pop music at the very lowest, but Husb2's point about THIS being the new politics, taking the place of voting for important things by pretending to vote for something meaningful, is a dangerous trend. It steals the souls not only of individuals, but of our society as well.

[Stinky The Clown]

59. Thank you ... for 'getting it'

That's exactly the point. And well demostrated in this thread.

Everyone chooses to see what they think they see instead of seeing what the other person sees.

And had I taken the time to compose a more intellectually honest and complete dissertation on this very dangerous phenomenon, no one would have read it and it would be lost to the archives.

This **is** a trend. Not to watch entertainment, but to wave great big shiny things intended to distract.

How is it that every morning show on the networks has news-like interviews with the loser-of-the-week as it were important? Thats tarted, for sure, as a self-promotion for the network shows. But now it has risen to command time on the cable shows that are not entertainment.

This IS an issue.

edit to add flashing blue light to highlight the fact that the issue has finally been well stated by Ron_Green

[redqueen]

This being the new politcs?

I didn't see that point in the OP anywhere...

And did anyone ever describe the Superbowl as being the new politics? They talk about football scores and other sports stuff every day on every news show... why are so many people freaking out as if things which distract people are in any way new? They are so not... panem et circenses, remember?

[Ron Green]

78. Bread and circuses

of course are nothing new. I think what is new is the delivery system, and the fact that "American Idol" is such an enormous cultural event now, as has been the Superbowl for many years.

The fact is that most people are not very smart, but you'll never hear any politician say that. Politics has always been grandstand-driven, but TV is honing the process so fine that the Market will become the State.

[redqueen]

84. there will always be new delivery systems

what is being railed against here, the attempt to distract? or all the viewers (including the people who can handle such distractions responsibly)?

and i'm *reallllly* curious as to why these kinds of nasty, insulting rants aren't being directed at sports fans by the person who started the thread... after all that's been going on for ages.

[girl gone mad]

114. If it gets kids interested in voting..

and teaches them something about democracy, then how can it be all bad? It's a civics lesson.

For the love of goddess, it's just a singing competition. Performing artsist are not what's wrong with this country. You're energy would probably be better spent attacking some of our actual problems. To me, this whole line of reasoning is as insipid as the notion that Janet Jackson's boob slip was some kind of national emergency.

[Ron Green]

134. It teaches them about voting just like a school popularity contest teaches

them about voting. My complaint with this phenomenon of American Idol is that it makes very easy what should be very difficult: wrestling with complex and painful decisions and then voting, in league with millions of other Americans, to elect someone the winner. But in this case, it's a singer of bland pop music, so that makes it easy. The complex and painful decisions don't even have to be dealt with, because they're "boring," when compared to your fave on AI.

Herein lies the danger, I think: Although several DUers in this thread have reminded us that they, personally, enjoy the show and are none the worse for it, the great numbers of fans without good critical thinking skills are actually being lulled into civic numbness by the process of electing the new "American Idol." And it's fun, unlike the stupid and boring political elections. Hey, wait...I've got it! We could have the Presidential candidates sing, too, and we could vote for the best one! That would be lots better, and more people would vote!

[bunny planet]

23. Isn't it kind of absurd to assume that all 63 million people who watch

and/or vote on American Idol are vapid, ignorant people unengaged with any other more important news. I'm sure lots of people who watch it do fall into that category but some of us can be activists, be informed politically, vote, read, work, watch American Idol with their kids, and chew gum, all at the same time.

In actuality the show is kind of an interesting socioeconomic and socialogical petri dish in some ways. The winner this year, I would venture to guess, is a liberal, whereas last year's winner seemed like a bit of a fundaholic to me ( her first single was something unbelievably insipid like 'Jesus Takes the Wheel') It kind of let's you know which way the country is leaning sometimes.

[Lerkfish]

26. Its really NOT my cup of tea, either, but I don't call fans stupid.

:shrug: to blame idol fans for the MSM not covering the news is hardly good targeting.

[Gregorian]

27. You may not like L7. You might think these lyrics are thin.

But when I heard this tune, and realized that it was from over a decade ago, I was astonished. It's not Lawrence Welk, that's for sure.


Whats up with whats going down
In every city, in every town
Cramping styles is the plan
Theyve got us in the palm of every hand

When we pretend that were dead
When we pretend that were dead
They cant hear a word weve said
When we pretend that were dead

Turn the tables with our unity
They neither moral nor majority
Wake up and smell the coffee
Or just say no to individuality

When we pretend that were dead
When we pretend that were dead
They cant hear a word weve said
When we pretend that were dead

Come on, come on, come on come on

When we pretend that were dead
When we pretend that were dead
They cant hear a word weve said
When we pretend that were dead

[BR_Parkway]

30. And I'll refer to you as ASSHOLE - some of us are very aware and active

and yet we enjoy some part of the show - not to say that the outcome makes one bit of difference in our lives - but there is such a thing as entertainment.

So glad that you've appointed yourself the person in charge of what everyone else should do or think. The day I have to be a part of anyone's groupthink is the day I leave the group.

I like Food Network too, how stupid does it make me? Or HGTV? Or the History Channel, Grisham books or even Star Wars?

I have no idea what you find entertaining, but how dare you think that you should somehow have a say in what I choose to watch or read. Who the fuck are you to think that your opinion is the only one that matters or is somehow more valid than mine?

This stupid post reminds me of the exact same shit the Freepers do - try to determine how everyone else should live their lives.

[Stinky The Clown]

49. I've been called worse, and will wear your characterization as a badge

of honor.

I didn't ask anyone to agree with me. I just staated my view. You're prefectly free to disagree with me.

But you're likely missing the whole point. That being: there are a lot of people who take this more seriously than ... you know ... actual reality. More to the point: the media propel this to the heights. More to the point, this genre gets coverage on news shows as if it were meaningful news. More to the point: It actually **does** matter that people atre getting distracted from what's going on. More to the point: this is our competition when we want to see a message break through.

If the show were nothing more than another entertainment show and if the polling were more along the polling for the baseball All Star team, we'd have better balance.

Those are very real issues.

I'm sorry you saw fit to see yourself in my post.

[grace0418]

65. OH MY MAUDE I cannot tell you how obnoxious it is when people "apologize"

like that. "I'm sorry you saw fit to see yourself in my post."

Not "I'm sorry I offended you" just "I'm sorry you were offended". It's ass-backwards and no apology at all. In fact, it is such an insult. Not only do you fail to see that your little rant was indeed offensive and overly broad, but then you tell someone who takes exception that it's their problem, not yours. They're either too sensitive or they really are stupid.

No one is quibbling with your right to think AI is the dumbest show on earth. No one is quibbling with your right to think the media is overly involved in promoting fluff over substance. I think most people here would completely agree with you there. What offends people here is that your OP never once made any distinction between people who allow entertainment to take over their lives and those who enjoy it for what it is. YOU made it black and white between those who watch AI(or any other similar form of entertainment) and those who don't. And then YOU expected everyone else to sort out that you *really* meant this or that. No, it doesn't work that way. Those of us who are taking exception didn't "see fit to see themselves in your post" and become offended. YOU painted us with that very broad brush.

[FuzzyDicePHL]

66. Thank you!

I wish I could have put that so succinctly. Perfect post, grace0418.

[grace0418]

87. Actually, I read your post and thought it was excellent.

Especially the part about sports dominating the news.

[FuzzyDicePHL]

91. Why thanks :)

[redqueen]

70. excellent analysis of those kinds of "apologies"

and just well said all around :)

[grace0418]

76. Thanks. The "I'm sorry you were offended apology" REALLY gets my goat.

As you probably saw. :)

[Stinky The Clown]

75. Would you have engaged in a rational discussion if the whole larger

issue were framed differently? With nuance and statistics and facts?

Maybe not.

This is an issue that exists on two levels. The gut level, where I took it and the far more critical, intellectual level, where it would have died.

Again, the issue is neither the show nor some of its viewers. Please take a few minutes to reread the thread, get past your red eyes directed at me, and try to see the real issue.

If you still wanna flame me, fine.

No non-apologetic apology will follow.

[grace0418]

85. I absolutely would've engaged in a RATIONAL discussion. And in one

of my posts I even said that I agree that the media spends way too much time discussing fluff over substance. Heck, I'd even say that American Idol is the junk food of media, and consuming too much of this kind of entertainment WILL turn your brain to mush.

My point is that you never gave me or anyone else the opportunity to discuss this rationally. Your OP *didn't* have nuance. If you just wanted to rant, your post could've said "I really hate American Idol and I can't believe how the media makes it seem more important than real news." or "It drives me fucking nuts that so many people ONLY watch crap like American Idol but couldn't find Iraq on a map." I would've gladly discussed that with you. But your OP insulted me and many other people here, and now you further insult me by issuing back-handed apologies and assuming that I wouldn't be willing or able to rationally discuss the issue.

[Stinky The Clown]

106. If you saw a back handed apology, you misinterpreted.

I make no apology for the post.

I would, however, love to engage on the issue, and will. But if you and I did, I suspect we'd have a round of mutual agreement.

[grace0418]

110. I was referring to the earlier post.

The one where you said "I'm sorry you saw fit to see yourself in my post." I'm sorry, that wasn't clear.

[BR_Parkway]

155. No, you're missing 2 important points

The first one is that anytime you paint with a broad brush, you cover people who don't deserve it and probably don't appreciate being called stupid - which closes them down to anything else you have to say - party of Big Tent indeed, just as long as we're all in lockstep agreement.

But here's the really important point that you missed. The majority voter on the show are 13-16 year olds - not old enough to drag to the polls this year - but they are being trained that their votes can count for something vs their parent's cynical view that one vote won't make a difference. Thank about the future of that - where people think their vote will actually count. And if they are already getting 'invested' in a particular entertainer - and that entertainer talks out in a few years like Clooney or Dixie Chicks - what a tremendous influence that could have.

Maybe you didn't see this report just released about the folks your deriding for being so apethetic:

http://www.campaignline.com/webedition/page.cfm?navid=51&pageid=875

Poll: 73 Percent of Young People Will Vote in 2006
Theodora A. Blanchfield , May 22, 2006

If the 2004 and 2005 elections are any indicator, young voters will continue to turn out at the polls in record numbers in upcoming elections.

Turnout in 2004 among the 18-to-24 year old bloc increased 11 percent over 2000 turnout, while general turnout increased only by four percent. In key governor races in Virginia and New Jersey in 2005, youth turnout continued to grow while general turnout dropped. A new poll released by Young Voter Strategies, a project of the George Washington Graduate School of Political Management, shows that 73 percent of young people who are eligible to vote are likely to cast ballots this November.

“If you ask them, they will vote,” said Heather Smith, director for Young Voter Strategies. “It’s figuring out how to ask them.”

They are paying attention, they are pissed at what is happening. And calling them stupid vs building them up as they get involved is completely counterproductive to me.

As for the media hype, don't be niave - it's what they do. The more they hype, the more advertising revenue they bring in - that is the business they are in.

[Pacifist Patriot]

37. I so deserve flames on this one so I'll sit myself beside you.

I detest the show. I detest "reality" television. I think it is an abominable fad and cannot wait to see it disappear. I'm an intellectual snob and I guess I have to suck it up and admit it. People I love dearly adore these shows and I have to almost physically restrain myself from wanting to bitch slap some sense into them.

I finally lost it one day when a group of ladies I was sitting with all asked in astonishment how I manage to get so much done with only 24 hours in a day. Well for one thing ladies, I haven't a clue what the rest of you have been talking about over lunch for the last half hour because I DON'T WATCH THAT CRAP ON TV! Geez it's amazing how much you can accomplish when your ass isn't plopped in front of the boob tube.

Okay, now I'll take my well-deserved flames since my ass is plopped in front of my computer monitor at the moment. ;)

[grace0418]

39. Stereotyping... it's not just for RWers anymore.

Way to lump everyone together with your insults my friend.

[Stinky The Clown]

60. Only if you see yourself in there and wish to be lumped

[FuzzyDicePHL]

61. Not only.

Whether we see ourselves as recipients of your attack or not, you're still lumping. Rather irresponsibly, too.

[redqueen]

67. Um, no...

if I post "women are nothing but bitches and hos" then NOT just actual bitches and hos are going to flame me, and rightfully so.

:)

[Brazenly Liberal]

72. "all 63.4 million of you"

"all 63.4 million of you"

and

"I'm talking to the 63.4 million of you who voted for American Idol."

You defined who was included in your comments pretty specifically. You said it and you were called on it. Own it or retract it as you wish, but this "only if you see yourself in there" crap is weaseling bullshit.

[grace0418]

73. How could I NOT see myself in your OP? You pretty much divided the world

between those who watch AI and those who don't. AI-watchers = Stupid Americans who don't care about important issues and don't deserve to even vote. Seeing as you made no further distinctions in your OP, and since I have watched AI now and then, by your equation I must be stupid and I should probably have my right to vote taken away.

Yeah, I can't imagine why I might be offended by that. I guess I should stop going to marches and raising thousands of dollars for progressive political causes since I'm too stupid to vote anyway. Boy, did I pull one over on that highly regarded school that gave me a masters degree.

[sinkingfeeling]

43. Can't be speaking to me...I've never seen nor heard of it! I get to vote!!

[ourbluenation]

47. Don't see what one has to do with the other...this is a stupid rant.

you're not making any sense...

[FuzzyDicePHL]

51. Some of us

are quite capable of watching Idol AND staying up on the "meaningful shit," as you so eloquently put it. How does one preclude the other, exactly? I don't see how blaming viewers for what the news chooses to report on affects any positive change.

Personally, I could easily rattle off a forgot-my-meds style attack on organized sports (which dominates the news year-round and not simply for a few weeks each year), but I have more respect for my fellow DUers than that.

I frequently find your posts to be clever, but this one sounds like some reich-wing freeper found you logged in on a public terminal and had at it using your ID...

[babylonsister]

53. I don't vote but I do watch, so I'm insulted by this.

Can't someone enjoy music and competion for the sake of music and/or competition, without you declaring us too fucking stupid?
Meh.

[FSogol]

54. 63.4 million? You mean 10 million who voted 63.4 times each n/t

[redqueen]

68. Exactly!

People getting bent out of shape are buying the hype. :P

[Downtown Hound]

58. Dude, it's just a TV show

American Idol is not trying to change the world or make any serious social commentary or probe the depths of the human soul. It's just meant meant to be good fun, give some people something to root for and talk about and provide them with a little escape. Is that such a terrible sin? People that watch it are hardly the masses of stupidity that you're making them out to be. There are people in my family that like American Idol, good progressive people that aren't stupid and try and make the world a better place. I myself am not a fan of the show, but I don't put down the people that like it. Relax. If the show really is so stupid why are you getting so worked up about it?

[Stinky The Clown]

62. Dude, its about the shiny things

The shiny things the media discovered by accident in trying make a cheap-as-dirt-to-produce network show that drew lots of viewers.

Has anyone notived how shows of this genre - not just this one - have become larger than life? How they take time away from real issues? How their loser du jour is interviewed on news shows? How water cooler talk that in times past were Clinton's daliances have now become the eyeshadow color of the hostess on one of these shows?

Its the trend ... not the show.

And yet, even here, where so many purport to be informed, there are plenty who see **the show** (and my statement) as the issue.

That simply is not the **issue**.

[redqueen]

69. Why won't you get into the sports aspect of it? n/t

[Ron Green]

79. I agree with you about the sports biz.

Professional sports (and that includes many college sports) in this country are designed to keep men from being intimate with each other. They are the default topic of conversation for the demographic that's most in need of learning how to relate to each other emotionally and spiritually.

[redqueen]

89. IMO the analogy with respect to this thread is even more basic than that

professional sports, college sports, even high school sports all serve as *much more* of a "shiny thing" type distraction from the issues that matter, and have for ages.

VERY interesting that sports fans weren't the target of the OP's derision.

[FuzzyDicePHL]

90. Not to mention

how sports so often support homophobic attitudes, become addictions, and take funding away from other programs in schools (college & high school sports do, that is).

Ironic that you say sports are designed to keep men from being intimate with each other -- I can't think of any other organized activities where it's acceptable to touch another guy's butt... :)

[Ron Green]

95. LOL - although patting the other guy on the butt, as you know,

is not the kind of intimacy I'm talking about, nor the kind our society sorely needs.

[grace0418]

99. LOL! I think our society sorely needs a kick in the pants, not a pat

on the butt. That's not saying I wouldn't enjoy a pat on the butt from the right person! :)

[FuzzyDicePHL]

113. HAHAH!

I agree with you wholeheartedly too!

[FuzzyDicePHL]

100. Yes, I do know...

Believe me, I know and I wholeheartedly agree with you.

[Stinky The Clown]

80. What sports aspect?

I musta missed that.

Did they wear shoulder pads and helmets?

Was there a fungo bat on stage?

Did someone get called for icing?

I musta missed that.

[redqueen]

88. Your disingenuousness is not well-timed.

Are you seriously implying that you aren't aware that sports has been the "shiny thing" of choice for ages now?

Do you really not realize how silly it sounds to rant and rail about people who care about nothing but American Idol, and then pretend confusion when someone brings up the fact that many MORE people care about nothing but sports?

Why no threads railing about that evil vicious "shiny thing" we all know so well as organized sports?

Why no posts in THIS thread at least ACKNOWLEDGING that it's a bigger distraction than AI could ever hope to be?

[grace0418]

93. Excellent point. It's so ingrained in our culture that most people don't

even realize how "important" it's become. Imagine if someone wrote a rant saying "Everyone who watches sports is stupid and shouldn't be allowed to vote."

[redqueen]

108. Exactly... because from a logical standpoint, the same should be true.

And I have no doubt it would get even more flamey attention!

:rofl:

[Stinky The Clown]

116. I'm completely aware that sports is a shiny thing.

This thread, however, was about this new shiny thing. That said, that isn't fair, is a bit disingenuous, but most importantly, your point is a good one.

Sports is a huge shiny thing and it distracts and, arguably, in many cases fosters, encourages, and institutionalises bad behavior. Not the least of which is violence. Or drugs. Or cheating. Or war. Or homophobia. Or ... or ... or.

It also has some good points. Not many, in my view, but some.

So I agree with you completely.

I am put in mind of George Carlin's famous treatise on the comparison of baseball and football .... **gridiron** vs 'field' ...... ****blitz**** vs 'home run' .... it was excellent satirical truth telling.

But back to the point you make.

Sports, unfortunately, is so much a part of life the world over, and has been for so long, that it likely can't be changed. The tradition goes back further than the naked Athenians with flat, round rocks and long spears.

I am not a sports fan. I played organized baseball only when I was a kid and played Little League. I was always last picked for teams simply because everyone knew I didn't give a shit about playing and wouldn't put my heart in it.

That's not to say I don't watch sports or know where my home teams stand. Or about Barry Bonds or Satchel Paige, for that matter.

Here's a view I've held for a long time: American politics (and maybe elsewhere) has been reduced to a team sport with everyone cheering blindly for 'my side'. Certainly a part of that played with the Bush campaigns. And that's just plain wrong. But the fact that it woprks tells volumes.

And, in some measure, is why this new shiny thing concerns me so much. Not the shows or the viewers, right now. The shiny thing.

This new mania for the reality show genre however, is still new enough to be tempered. And I think that's why, in my mind, it isn't an equivalent argument.

Not to say sports isn't worth dicussing, because it certainly is. And it has many common traits with this new shiny thing. But the underlying truths are suffiently different to warrant separate discussions.

If you'll start a sports thread, I'll be happy to engage ... in whatever tone you use to start the thread .... which is what I did here.

[redqueen]

123. Thanks for your candor...

I don't know that we could ever hope to temper people's enthusiasm for their choice methods of escape. But it's interesting to think of trying...

I won't be starting such a sports thread, because I respect that people who love sports can also be responsible citizens... IMO the problem isn't with the substance/distraction, but with the person who fails to control their use of it.

[Stinky The Clown]

126. I'm not sure that the problem isn't the substance of the distraction.

As I said, sports and reality shows are different paradigms that share some common traits, but differ fundamentally.

Give a quick look-see to this thread over in GD. It seems MSNBC gave 45 minutes to AI coverage. The link goes to one reply I made, but read also at least the comment to which I replied, if not the whole thread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1282450#1284553

Why would MSNBC do this? I can't buy the idea that it was for ratings. I know this can sound tinfoily, but I can see it being collusion to make this genre of show far more important than it deserves to be.

[redqueen]

135. yes, that's a good point...

maybe you're right and this is being pushed... trying to catch the irresponsible non-sports fans' attention perhaps?

[Stinky The Clown]

136. Sports fans, I'm afraid, we'll have to live with

There's no fixing that.

But at least they only get a five minute mention on the nightly news and its all sorta codified and non-sensational anymore. Except for the big events, but even they're contained.

These reality shows can easily become part of the larger "American experience" .... and that's not a good thing.

[Downtown Hound]

82. Dude, if everyone focused on real issues all day, all the time,

everyone would go insane. Are you seriously going to tell me that you don't have your own versions of escape, whatever they may be? You know, like maybe reading, "I'm smarter than everybody else" magazine? Whenever I see someone start a crusade against something as trivial as a TV show as being the reason why Americans are uninformed or politically ignorant, I just want to laugh. You do realize that this type of shit is really no different from the right wing's crusade against stuff like Harry Potter don't you? Somebody who thinks they know what's best for everybody else suddenly gets a bee in their bonnet about something that's popular and then blames it for all of society's ills. They claim that stuff teaches Satanism and delinquency in minors. Pretty silly huh? But now here you are claiming shows like American Idol are the reason why Americans are ignorant of the world around them. It's a cheap answer to a complex problem.

A little advice, if you don't like the show, change the channel. Work to change the world in other ways that are more productive than worrying about what TV shows others are watching.

[Ron Green]

107. I don't think he's saying AI is the reason for ignorance, although

ignorance is surely partly responsible for AI. I believe it's a hand-in-hand arrangement by which the image masters and propagandists nurture a perpetual diversion from the things that will truly bring us to destruction.

I don't think the TV show is trivial, although it's a symptom rather than a cause.

[Downtown Hound]

118. "Ignorance is surely partly responsible for AI"

Has it occurred to you that maybe just because you don't like something that that doesn't mean everyone else who does is ignorant? You know I know this might be a shock to you, but maybe some people just like listening to the music and rating the performances and getting behind a certain contestant. And guess what? Just because it's superficial, just because the singers don't rant and rail against injustices in the world or sing original songs from their hearts, just because it's corporate doesn't make them ignorant.

Yes, the media does create diversions for us to distract us from what's going on. If you really want to get down to the nitty gritty, then all forms of entertainment are distractions that keep us from paying attention from what's going on. As has been pointed out on this thread, sports are by far the biggest offender of this group, going back to the time of the Roman Empire and their gladiatorial contests. But let's pick our battles. Going after consumers of popular entertainment doesn't help our cause any. It just makes us look like the elitist snobs we've always been made out to be by our enemies. People need to chill out and find other things to bitch about.

[Stinky The Clown]

119. The post wasn't about the show

if one would just stop and think. But this thread (and I am not aiming this at you) demonstrates the underlying issue.

Everyone went off on me because I said something that was against something they did - watch the show and vote.

The bigger point is the way these shows are proliferating and at the same time morphing into what appears to be news.

And suck people in.

If it were just one show, okay.

If it were two ... well ..... whatever.

But now it is a definable trend. And it garners more attention than important stuff.

(How many people died in Iraq yesterday?)

I really don't think the shows, at the start, were anything more than what they were - an attempt to make a cheap-to-produce teevee hit that will sell gazillions of pairs of Reeboks and cases of Cokes.

(What signing statement got written yesterday?)

But when the media and those who are clearly NOT on our side saw the result, they saw the opportunity.

(What two government jobs are still open and for which even the Bushies can't find anyone to appoint cuz no one wants them?)

And **that** is a serious issue.

[Downtown Hound]

128. What you're talking about is a much larger issue

and you're oversimplifying it. Okay, first of all, I think it should be noted that reality TV is a phase. And it's a phase that is rapidly dying. Reality TV shows don't bring in nearly the ratings that they used to, AI probably being the only major exception. For awhile everyone loved reality TV because it was new, and the networks loved it because it was cheap to produce. Dramatic TV, like say, Lost, requires a huge budget that reality TV doesn't require. That's why for awhile there we saw so many awful reality TV programs. And yes, you'll get no argument from me that they were awful.

But because shows like Lost, or maybe Desperate Housewives have made such a splash recently, now we're starting to see more shows like that. These things go in cycles. What's hot one year may be gone the next. AI is no different. In the 50's everyone loved American Bandstand. You think back when that show was on there weren't people criticizing it as well for the same or similar reasons you are currently bashing AI for? There were. But even that show eventually disappeared.

Now, you pose the question, "How many soldiers died in Iraq yesterday?" True, there are probably very few Americans that could answer that. Even I can't answer that, and I check icasualties.org daily. But your point was that Americans don't know this because they are buying into the crap that the corporate media is putting out to them and then in return being distracted by stuff like American Idol which lulls them into a state of hypnosis where they are unmotivated to go out and search for the truth. I actually agree with you 100% on all of this. But it's much to broad of a stroke to paint that everyone who likes American Idol is guilty of this. What you're talking about is the insidious nature of our media itself, and you're simply using American Idol as an example of what's wrong with it because it's the most popular.

But here's the kicker, American Idol is not there to inform people, the news media is. In the grand scheme of our system, AI, as well as every form of entertainment there is, may be there to pick up the pieces in terms of putting the masses to sleep after the news media does its mind fuck on people, but the fault does not lie with the show itself. Humans have a natural craving for entertainment of this kind, and guess what, it will always be more powerful that simple, straight-up information.

Humans like to have a hero to root for, a contest to get behind. This is part of our nature. It's not that politicians created this system for us as a sole means of our exploitation. It's the other way around. Humans are naturally pre-disposed to this kind of thing and politicians learned centuries ago to exploit that in us. Which is why railing against it is so completely futile. Let people have their American Idol or their football or whatever it is that floats their boat, and concentrate your criticism on those who are supposed to be providing you with real information; the news media. If you were to total up the number of people that watched the news yesterday, read a newspaper, listened to the radio, or went on the internet to get news, I guarantee that the number would be higher than those who watched American Idol. But since our news has sold us out, we are left with crap information, nothing to defend us against the onslaught of the rest of the media. Only those who are true free thinkers and and political junkies will actually seek out that information, and some of those people may even like American Idol or Joe Millionaire or Monday Night Football. But our job is to take back the real sources of information in this country, not waste our time worrying about a show where people sing songs for votes.

And now I have to go. I can't believe I even got sucked into this thread when I don't even like American Idol. Hell I don't even have a TV. The only 2 shows I watch I download from iTunes. Have a nice day everybody!

[Stinky The Clown]

132. I'm glad you took the time to make a cogent point

and I hope you'll come back to follow up.

We pretty much agree on everything you posted. I just want to add one thing and it is, in my mind, an important point.

Unlike any entertainment show on teevee, the reality shows create something that can be turned into faux news.

Because they seem to be some form of reality, the media can make it into news. manufactured news. It is like a wild fire that jumps the road.

I actually don't think anyone set out to do that. but when the media saw the reaction, they saw the possibility.

And the mass distratction was established.

I wish they'd go away or be relegated back to entertainment only. I don't think that geneie's ever going back into the bottle.

[Ron Green]

130. This is one thing to bitch about, and it's a legitimate one.

For one thing, pop music is generally lame. If this show were featuring music with artistic merit, it would be more worthwhile, but then it wouldn't be popular. This country doesn't support good music as much as other countries do, even while many of the world's best musicians are Americans. Despite the best universities in the world, we have one of the lowest levels of academic achievement. I won't even enumerate the economic disparities in this country.

My point is that we don't HAVE to be a nation of dumbasses, but it's COMFORTABLE and EASY to remain so. Can we educate ourselves out of this state? That's a question I can't answer, but TV in the hands of few corporate masters isn't going to help.

[Stinky The Clown]

137. Follow-up and corollary ......

.... the systematic diminution of intellectual pursuits. Even beyond math and science. This has been systematized by the current regime.

But that's a whole other thread.

[Greyhound]

127. Alternately, "if everyone focused on real issues all day, all the time"

Things might actually change for the better, as opposed to the long, torturous slide into the darkness that we are and have been seeing for the last 40 years.

Whaddaya think?

[Downtown Hound]

131. The truth?

It sounds kind of boring to me. I really don't want to live in a world where everyone is so uptight that a show where people sing songs for attention is considered an affront to humanity. Basically what you're talking about is a world in which there is no fun, and that's all American Idol is supposed to be.

[Greyhound]

142. I'm sorry, but you missed the point. If people were not constantly

distracted by corporate pablum, they would probably begin to notice how upside-down everything is and might even make the effort to improve it. I'm not sure I understand where you got the idea that if the standards of TV entertainment were higher "everyone is (would be) so uptight".

The boredom that you fear is the result of depending on external sources of utterly passive entertainment, something relatively unknown prior to the advent of TV. Try thinking of it this way, how far has the quality of entertainment declined when the most popular show is amateurs being humiliated in front of millions? People managed to entertain themselves and each other for thousands of years prior to the conquest of TV.

I guess the point is that our standards have fallen to the point where AI is the most entertaining thing on the idiot box

[wizdum]

74. You missed Prince last night dum dum. It was awesome.

Oh well.

[girl gone mad]

104. Yah, Prince was fantastic.

I Tivoed the show and fast forwarded through most of it. Prince sounded incredible, as good as he's ever been.

[FuzzyDicePHL]

115. I wish I could say I shared your opinion

that he was fantastic, but I do agree that he was as good as he's ever been. ;)

Is it true that he's a big ol' (haha, well, a lil' ol') repub? :)

I've heard it a while back and then more recently saw on newsmeat.com that he dontated to repubs back in '90...

High point of the show for me was the Bacharach medley.

[girl gone mad]

103. If you don't like it don't watch it. End of story.

Oh, and this is what you sound like:

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28694

[redqueen]

111. hehehehehehehehehe

:P

[newsguyatl]

109. seeing as how folks are

allowed to vote more than once -- the real number is probably more like 15 or 20 million.

[datadiva]

112. Damn, upset are we?

I am progressive, liberal, Democrat and I vote in every election, always have, always will. I also like American Idol and I voted there also. So, are we not to have any enjoyment in our everyday existences? Your bullshit is my idea of freedom to choose what I watch without someone ragging me. Damn.

[4_TN_TITANS]

117. Brain bubble gum, that's all it is....

Programming that causes you to think, or learn, is more work than most people want after a day 'at' work. There will always be an audience for that Idol-type crap, you're banging you're head against a wall to no avail.

[redqueen]

124. he says, with a football avatar...

[Vinca]

125. I'm not ashamed to be a fan of American Idol.

As a political junkie, I'm subjected day and night to things that keep me pissed off about 90% of the time. I'm grateful when a dumb TV show can capture my attention long enough to let me chill awhile and get the old B/P back within a normal range. Quite frankly, I think you're being an asshole.

[Stinky The Clown]

138. That's two votes for 'asshole'

[Doctor_J]

133. You spend more than an hour/wk posting rants on DU

tell me again why that's better than people enjoying a TV show?

My daughter is an activist, elementary school teacher (inner city), mentor (big-sister-type thing) who NEVER MISSES AI.

Shut up.

[Stinky The Clown]

140. You are right to be proud of your daughter

(no snark)

I won't shut up.
(snark)

[depakid]

139. panem et circenses

Juvenal had that down in the 1st Century.

Give 'em their fast food & "American Idol" and they'll ignore everything short of Rome burning to the ground.

[Minnesota Libra]

141. Now please don't be so nice this time just tell us how you truly feel.....

....about American Idol voters. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

BTW, I agree, I haven't watched American Idol since about one-quarter through the second season. It's all the same old same old, just a different day.

[juajen]

147. Yeah, same thing I tell my hubbie about football.

Like couldn't they throw a turkey for a change, or maybe change the point system. Has it changed any in the past 15 or so years?

It would be fun if tackling a referee counted for 10 points, doncha think.

[Minnesota Libra]

149. I like your ideas, that would make for a great football game. nt

[Bouncy Ball]

144. Watching American Idol and being an active citizen

are not mutually exclusive. I don't really get into AI, but I know lots of people who do AND who are active citizens who vote, write letters, protest, etc.

Everyone has their brain candy. Mine is doing sudoku puzzles and watching old movies. Other people have other forms of brain candy. Doesn't mean they don't vote.

[Blue_Tires]

145. well this deserves a kick!

[kineneb]

148. What is a TV? Ours fell down and broke,

so now all I "watch" is the internet.:)

Also haven't been to a movie for 2 years. Have read a bunch of books, knitted a lot of socks and other stuff, and worked a lot in the garden.

Take a deep breath, and realize the world has always been populated by a majority of idiots. That is why genius is so exceptional.

[joeprogressive]

150. Let me get this straight...If someone was politically engaged, read two

newspapers daily,watched about 4-8 hours of CSPAN a week, etc, but allowed themselves one mindless respite such as watching American Idol, they are too stupid to vote? You need to examine your own life. Is there anything you do during the course of the week that is considered mindless? Some people would say watching sports on television or playing golf would qualify. Do you do either? I enjoy both of those things and I know it clears my head for more worthwhile pursuits.

The point is, everybody needs their own form of entertainment. If it is watching and voting on American Idol than so be it.

A better stereotype would be that everyone that voted for Bush was either stupid, greedy or a religious whack job. Many of the people that vote on idol are young potential voters that we need to reach out to. We shouldn't be telling them to stay away.

[lynne]

151. Sheesh . . . who peed in your Wheaties???

Get off the cross, will ya? The job of martyr has already been taken.

So, you think it's criminal to allow for 1-2 hours of entertainment a few weeks a year? I love American Idol, watch it faithfully and vote for my favorite. I also faithfully vote at the polls. Sorry you don't feel AI is "meaningful" enough but - you know - how I choose to entertain myself is actually none of your business.

[NaturalHigh]

152. I hate American Idol...

but it's pretty stupid to tell American Idol fans to stay away from the polls. Take a chill pill.

[autorank]

153. YEAH, no more stupid shit HUSB, go here for "meaning"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2648099

this IS important

[El Fuego]

154. That's an awful lot of irrational anger.

So, what are YOUR TV watching habits? Nothing but C-SPAN?

As television ENTERTAINMENT goes, what is your definition of "MEANINGFUL SHIT"? "Myth Busters"? "American Chopper"?

AND, why are you posting about American Idol in GD Politics?? Don't you know it's just a TV show? What does it have to do with the political scene?

What is really "FUCKING STUPID" is that you apparently take offense to the show because you think there is a direct correlation between American Idol and the 2004 election because they both nominally involve voting. That is just fucking retarded.

[LynneSin]

156. Let's give the show it's real title: American Karoke Singer

Because that's what they are - they sing Karoke to other folks songs.

Nothing is original on that show

[Stinky The Clown]

158. Before you post any more to this thread ... please read this:

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Husb2Sparkly/14

[El Fuego]

160. Why do you hate America?