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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 10:26 AM
Original message
Take a deep breath everyone.
OK everyone, now let's just take a deep breath. I don't think that one race in Connecticut indicates a huge "rift" in the party, and I don't like
DLC'rs or MoveOn'rs, EITHER ONE, talking like this. Remember that the last Democrat to decisively win the Presidency was a guy from the South who saw that to become nationally competetive again the party needed to to come back, at least to a fair degree, to the political center. Think about it. McGovern, Carter in round two, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, and Kerry (let's put aside the "stolen election" stuff for these purposes) all lost and most of those got beaten up big time. Gore and Kerry both certainly lost large majorities in the state by state counts. WE CAN NOT WIN 18-STATE national elections! Now this doesn't mean we have to become "Republican Lite," but it does mean we need a big tent and that we have to be "Democratic Different" because the old
"wimpy far-lefter" perceptions will not play in the west, south, and midwest. Our national campaigns have sucked (face it, Kerry's team got beaten soundly by Karl Rove - no excuses!), and too many of our candidates have been weak choices. We need better campaigns, better candidates, and we need to expand the electoral map. Working class white guys and married soccer moms and yes, even church going folk MUST find a place in this party if we are to be nationally viable, and they can if we just talk to them right and show them that we can lead on what is important to them. I agree, we shouldn't be the party of the corporations at all (and we can use that issue to prove we're the party of working America), but we have to find ways to speak again to ALL the people of this country and give them reasons to vote for us again. And as far to the right as the R's have gone, there is nothing wrong with finding new ways to convince people that we Dems ARE the mainstream party of the center. But we need to get real and talk about values and talk about the key issues in a way that speaks to everyone everywhere, and we need to DAMN WELL UNITE THIS PARTY! So I say to both sides, just cool it!!! Start talking about where we AGREE and not where we disagree! I'm sick of this foolish insistance that it has to be all one way or the other! Find the common ground damn it, and there's plenty of it if you'd just take a deep breath, settle down, and talk and listen instead of yell.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. Can't be done. I wish it could but it can't.
When you have been here long enough you will see why.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. Wow
Can't is a word I teach my children never to use. :(
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. Same old DLC same old.
:boring:
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 10:35 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. How do you get DLC from this?
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
20. I guess I should have known an answer was not forth coming.
:eyes:
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. I get it - any opinion that calls for more center politics is DLC
I guess that's the latest popular bigotry on DU.
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MrModerate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
4. Yes but . . .
Lieberman goes too far. He's outside the tent. Let's not have a firestorm, but let's try to get someone whose views are at least recognizable as "Democratic."
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #4
28. i did a search and could not find the word "Lieberman" in that post
Is it hidden in invisible ink or something?
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Conker Donating Member (284 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 10:45 AM
Response to Original message
5. I agree.
It seems like the only way Dems can win across the U.S. is to move towards the center.Look at how conservative America is now.RBinMaine is right about wimpy far-left perceptions.Leftist Democrats just cannot win in the South.Thats why most of the Dems there are centrists.Democrats whether we like it or not are perceived as a wimpy anti-war liberal party in several states.We need to move more to the center so we can appeal to moderates and the Republicans that are dissatisfied with this administration and the congress.There just aren't enough liberals in the U.S. anymore to carry this party.If we keep losing key elections like we have been for several years now, we will only get weaker and it will be harder for people to want to vote for a losing party.And for the record I am not a centrist, but I do feel that the only way we can save this party is to appeal to mainstream America (conservatives and moderates).
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sandyd921 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. No. I would say that
Democrats are perceived as a wimpy, no particular position (or all over the board) on anything party. For Democrats to win a large portion of the country they must return to and clearly define their principles, particularly on economic and environmental issues (i.e., national health care, living wage, support for unions, global warming, renewable energy, etc.) and on electoral reform (publicly funded elections, paper ballots, nix on voting machines, etc.). And they have to keep hammering away at these principles and issues, even in the face of massive attacks from the Reich Wing machine.
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Scoody Boo Donating Member (634 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. This won't fly.
"For Democrats to win a large portion of the country they must return to and clearly define their principles, particularly on economic and environmental issues (i.e., national health care, living wage, support for unions, global warming, renewable energy, etc.)"

All of those are losing propositions in the South. Every one. You bring up enviromental issues, the Republicans will bring up the lack of refineries and high gas prices and blame enviromental issues. Global Warming? Last week there were record low temps in a lot of the US (an anomaly, I know, but still). Unions, in the South? Pffft! Renewable energy? People are tired of paying high gas prices now. You KNOW the Republicans are going to bring up the fact that the Chinese are drilling in the Gulf and we are not.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Then the Democratic Party is a Losing Proposition in the South
Can't mention the environment because that will drive away right-wing Southerners.
Can't mention health care because that will drive away right-wing Southerners.
Can't mention wages or unions because Southerners like low pay and poor working conditions :wtf:
Must cave in on abortion, must cave in on birth control, must cave in on gay rights.
Must cave in on anything to do with separation of church and state…

If that's what it takes to win in the South, lets give up on the South already.

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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. I live in the south and that is a load of crap
NC is dead set against drilling off its coast, partially due to economics and partially due to enviromental reasons. Conservative eastern NC leads the opposition to that and a major naval air base planned for eastern NC. We are raising the minimum wage by at least a dollar. Our school bus fleet got close to the best grades in the nation for running on renewable energy. The only issue on your list that is poison down here is unions.
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Scoody Boo Donating Member (634 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. I live in Texas...
and enviromental issues down here are the kiss death.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. That might be true in your part of Texas
but any part of Texas that depends on fishing, hunting or other such activities has enviromentalists in it.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #19
24. absolutely right
I live in Texas too and right now they are planning a MAJOR wind farm off the coast. Now we can debate the merits of this particular project but the fact it they are doing something about the energy crisis.

Also a few years ago when the Navy was considering S. Texas as a replacement for the bomobing range in Vieques, people overwhelmingly were opposed to it, for a variety of reasons. It was soundly rejected at every level, even by such noted "friends of the people" as Kay Bailey Hutchison. The Texas Park and Wildlife Commission (all mostly Republicans) voted to protect seagrasses by levying fines against those boaters who destroy them. They recognized the value of seagrasses as habitat for fish. The Commission has done things that might surprise people not familiar with Texas.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. The south is not quite so monolithic as all that
You could, for example, point out that global warming also means stronger and more frequent hurricanes which mainly (but not exclusively) affect the south. I mean it was George W. Bush's Administration who let all those people die in New Orleans. Of course most of them were probably Democrats so maybe New Orleans at least will be Republican.

Florida has a number of environmental issues: they are very much opposed to offshore drilling the last time I checked. Think of the tourism industry.

In any case, those issues are important to the Deocratic party and we have to mention them. We cannot be just Republican-lite. Not anymore.

Health care is a universal issue. As more and more people (in the south and elsewhere) end up footing more of the bill, I do believe we will hear more calls for reform. And who doesn't want to work for a living wage?
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RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. Yes, this is getting to what I'm talking about!
Good post. For too long the Dems have been seen by too many, like it or not, as the party of "gays, abortion, tree huggers, far-lefters, hippies, the Hollywood elite, etc. etc." In the process we have lost our perception as "the fighting party of working America that stands huge and strong on the world stage and is a powerful, visionary leader on great national issues." Some of this has been deserved, some has been due to wimpy responses to the Republican tags. Like it or not, the R's learned how to capitalize on the negative perceptions and use them to define us as "wimpy liberals" while they clearly defined themselves as "the strong party of traditional American values." Like their tactics or not, they learned how to powerfully organize, use emotional issues to their advantage, run highly organized and disciplined campaigns, work the conservative grassroots, dramatically improve their messaging, put together a right wing media juggernaut, and build a conservative movement as a foundation for their electoral success. They have been powerfully united, and they have kicked our electoral butt time and again on the national scene. They have become the majority party across this country. Now the Dems need to re-learn their politics, and some good things are happening. We need to understand that this is a vast nation where people think on a political spectrum, and we need to get back to such issues as "strong communities and families, living wages, energy independence, fiscal discipline, strong but smarter national security, health care reform, AND we can
re-frame the abortion-gun-God debate to our advantage by coming to center where the majority of country is. For example, we can talk
A LOT about faith by talking about how Christ time and again taught us to honor and care for those less fortunate... We can
re-capture "patriotism" in many ways. And we can do all this while keeping faith with our traditional values of tolerance and inclusion. We just have to talk about it the right way. Dean is doing very well re-building the grassroots EVERYWHERE. Every organization needs to change and adjust with changing circumstances. We need to be real. We can't "write off the South" or anywhere else if we want to be a national player. We just have to re-adjust and learn how to talk to these folks again. So let's drop all this "DLCer" labeling and realize that we need to unite around the 70%-80% of ideas that we all can essentially agree on and build this party EVERYWHERE in the country.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. The right has totally framed the debate
And we have allowed them to. The vast majority of people in this country do support abortion and gay rights if the questions are properly framed. In coversations with conservatives I bring this up time and again: What difference does it make to you if two men decide to shack up? how does that personally affect you? mostly they have never looked at it that way. Read "What's the Matter with Kansas" to get a view of how the radical right has captured the Republican Party and effectively hijacked the debate.
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. the DLC is all about legislative compromise, not about winning..
The DLC had allot to do with the 1986 tax act, the budget agreement when the first Bush was President. It even supported the Kennedy-Kassabaum act, a law conceived by one of the most liberal Democrats. The DLC worked with Clinton to produce budget deals with the Republican Congress. The DLC can play a positive role, but not when our party has 0 leverage!

The DLC gave Clinton hell for the 1993 budget act, which had more to do with balancing the budget than DINOs or Republicans. The DLC turned against Clinton's idea for an employer mandate in 1993, an idea they embraced in 1992 as mainstream. The DLC opposed cuts in military spending, but supported endless tax-cuts pushed by Republicans. The DLC has a positive role to play when Democrats a the majority, but there is nothing to be gained by working with Republicans who ultimately seek to be unopposed and uncriticized. Republicans united to filibustered Clinton's healthcare bill in 1994, House Republicans attacked Clinton's budget in 1993 as only another tax increase, and Clinton was ruthlessly labeled as a leftest opponent of the Second Amendment who couldn't get the support from any Republicans in Congress.

If Republicans had worked with Clinton to pass healthcare reform, if some Republicans had voted for Clinton's budget in 1993, and if Republicans had not run "the Harry and Louise ads"..I have my doubts that Democrats would have lost Congress.
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alarimer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
23. They have lost more elections trying to appeal to the center
Edited on Sun May-28-06 05:06 PM by alarimer
They have won exactly one election that way and that was 1992. And I think people were just sick of the Reagan/Bush era. Appealing to the center loses every single time. It does not work.S stick up for your core principles- that is the only way to win.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
6. I think that the neocons have long hoped for "one race" that will "cause
Edited on Sat May-27-06 10:50 AM by applegrove
a rift" in the democratic party.

I skipped that thread. Cause it was ridiculous. I refuse to act out the biggest dreams of the political arm of the GOP.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 11:07 AM
Response to Original message
7. Basically, the party is united. Traditional moderate and liberal
Democrats are simply trying to weed out as many RW Dem legislators as we can in the primaries. We are trying to prevent the Democratic Party from totally becoming the Junior Varsity of the republican party.

You can bet that almost every single traditional moderate and liberal Dem will vote for whoever wins respective Democratic primaries.

Traditional moderate and liberal Dems understand that we need to to do whatever is necessary get rid of the republican fascists, including vote for a DINO if we have to. We don't want to, but almost every one of us will.

Traditional moderate and liberal Dems would never, ever vote for a republican. I'm a liberal Democrat and have always voted for Democrats. I would never consider not voting, and I'd slash my wrists before I'd vote for a republican.

OTOH, RW Democrats very well may for a republican if they feel that the Democratic candidate that wins the primary in their district is too liberal. These RW Dems brought us Ronald Reagan, one of the worst disasters in American History. The election of Ronald Reagan, which can be in large part attributed to RW Democrats voting for a republican, is directly responsible for the blossoming republican fascism that infects our nation like a deadly political virus right now.

If you want to unite the Democratic Party, I suggest that it may be best to directly address the RW Dems that may vote for republicans in 2006.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Or address the far left who won't vote at all, because they don't like the
Edited on Sat May-27-06 11:10 AM by William769
Candidate. :hi:
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William Seger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
11. A real LEADER wouldn't "come back to the political center"
A real leader wouldn't try to pander to the largest number of people. A real leader would be able to explain what's wrong with the "political center" in America today, and why we desperately need a new progressive movement.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. The Center is to the Left of Both Parties Today
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
12. The Dems in DC Bend over for the Right Wingers Every Day
You want the party to bend over even more.

Why do you think that will do us any good?

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Piscis Austrinus Donating Member (119 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-27-06 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
16. The Democrats need to see one simple point...
...traditional definitions of "conservative" and "liberal" really don't apply anymore.

The Democratic party has never effectively answered the linguistic bludgeoning it took from the RNC, starting back in the 80's. Newt Gingrich and his band of merry thugs did a superb job of addressing the terms they should use in framing political ideas.

However, there are a great many "conservative" ideas that have become anything but. "Smaller government?" The Bush government has run up an incredible deficit and dropped the US economy into a crater from which it will take years to emerge. "Family values?" Two parents working three jobs in a desperate effort simply to approach the same living standard enjoyed by their parents argues powerfully against this - especially when those jobs are being outsourced, or even insourced, in a deliberate effort to drive down real wages. "Compassionate Conservatism?" What's compassionate about underfunding education - which across the spectrum of political thought, from Al Gore to P.J. O'Rourke, is clearly regarded as the best defense against poverty? What's compassionate about cutting taxes on those who least need cuts, while increasing tax burdens on everyone else? What's compassionate about leaving the next generation of Americans, and the generation after that, with the bills of profligate government spending?

More than a few liberals I know or have heard have made the same single, extrordinary observation in the past year: when discussing issues with avowed conservatives, there has been a greater consensus between the two sides than I think I have ever observed. This doesn't mean that the left is moving to the center, or that the right is getting cold feet; I think it means that people across the political landscape are waking up to a simple reality: our nation is financially and politically sick, and the solutions are so obvious that both the left and the right can see them and agree on them.

The Democrats, however, have a huge advantage in this scenario, if they will only have the vision and courage to reach out and grasp it: the Republicans are married to their party and the Bush administration, and are in the cleft stick of funding vs. public opinion. Their solution will be the usual one: hammering at their opponents rather than addressing their own issues (and revealing their own past records of malfeasance/incompetence).

Fault lines are rife within the conservative base. Investors are appalled at the idea that a company with a national security contract may falsify or fudge its financial records in order to conceal its contracted work (if Negroponte approves). Fiscal conservatives are disgusted with the national debt, trade imbalance, and budget deficits that are the hallmarks of the Bush administration. And the average joe in the street is struggling to keep up with gas prices that rise at a rate of 40% per year. Military families wonder when or if their loved ones will return from abroad (and some of those families have gotten a real earful about the reality of the situations their loved ones have endured). The transparent-government types are very unhappy with the wiretapping, spying, and overall secrecy shrouding the Executive Branch. Even the national-security types are angry over the Plame outing.

The shocking thing is that, when faced with all of these issues, the Bush government has answered with only one response: "Trust us." It even worked for a long while. However, little by little, as the months have stretched to seemingly interminable and almost unberable years, more and more Americans have wised up and realized that they have been lied to by this administration, on many levels and on many issues, and that they have been sold a bill of goods by the RNC and its minions.

The Democrats need do only one thing well in order to win convincingly in November: REFRAME THE DEBATE. All of these issues can be prefaced with a simple question: "Is this in the best interest of our nation and its people, and if so, why?"

Think of all the things that can be reframed:

"Is it in the best interest of America and its people to run a twelve-digit budget deficit?"
"Is it in the best interest of America and its people to allow energy companies to make record profits while fuel costs rise at a rate ten times higher than inflation?"
"Is it in the best interest of America and its people to pursue an offensive-minded, military-based foreign policy?"
"Is it in the best interest of America and its people to allow corporations to outsource jobs to nations whose labor policies wouldn't pass muster in a single one of the states of the union?"
"Is it in the best interest of America and its people to allow our government to compile and maintain massive databases and dossiers of information on its citizens without prior cause?"
"Is it in the best interest of America and its people to allow corporations to exert influence upon the elected representatives and exectutive through the disbursement of campaign funding - funding which few if any Americans could possibly offset through their own efforts?"
"Is it in the best interest of America and its people to award government contracts without a bid process, and to award those contracts to a small cluster of corporations - a cluster whose boundaries are clearly defined by their collective proximity to the officials in the Executive branch and/or the most powerful, majority-party members of Congress?"

I don't think any conservative can answer any of those questions satisfactorily, and most will fall back on the "trust me" strategy because the arguments in favor of these scenarios are demonstrably pernicious to the vast majority of Americans, regardless of political stripe.

The "trust us" answer forces the issue, because most Americans can grasp the simple point: we trusted you, and look what you did.

You spied on us without our knowledge.
You compromised our security at home through your failure to recognize and prevent the events of 9/11 before they occurred, and by failing to mitigate and alleviate much of the damage wrought in the hurricane season of 2005 in the Gulf states.
You compromised our security abroad by entering into a war with another nation under demonstrably false pretenses.
You mortgaged the future of our children and grandchildren through short-sighted fiscal policy.
You endangered our own abilities to provide for ourselves and our dependents through your utter failure to restrict profiteering by energy companies in all sectors.
You allowed your chief executive to sign statements upon the passage of bills that rendered their effect null and void upon his office, effectively placing that executive above the law. In this, you failed in your oaths to uphold the Constitution of these United States.
And through it all, you lied to us, promised things you failed to deliver, postured when you should have led, and blamed those who were out of power when you yourself held power.
You have been unaccountable, unwilling, untrustworthy, and unjust in your dealings with the American people.


We need to keep this stuff in mind. They did all of this. For the love of God, let's make them ANSWER for it!

Peace
PsA
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
21. Kerry did better than I expected..
Edited on Sun May-28-06 04:59 PM by flaminbats
why do people keep saying Kerry did terrible? I remember actively supporting Kerry..but expecting him to do worse than Dukakis did in 1988. It made my day to see that he almost beat Bush, just one more state like New Hampshire and he would now be President.

As far as the stolen election is concerned...that should be a central issue! Gore indisputably won the election in 2000 by more than 500,000 votes, but he lost the Electoral College. It should never be forgotten that the candidates who won fewer votes in 2000, 1888, 1876, and 1824 became President. Voters should always be reminded of this fact, and we can win these votes by pledging to abolish the Electoral College! Why would anyone vote for a Democrat who doesn't believe in democracy?

http://www.uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/national.php?year=2000&off=0&elect=0&f=0

Democrats are mainstream! The majority of Americans believe in universal healthcare, the majority of Americans believe our soldiers should be brought home now from Iraq, the majority of Americans believe in more funding for education, the majority of Americans believe in a progressive tax system, the majority of Americans believe in stopping political donations from the wealthy to those elected to serve us all, the majority of Americans believe in a clean environment, the majority of Americans believe in taxing the profits of big gas companies to fund research for renewable energy sources, and the majority of Americans are sick of a Republican Congress that is nothing more than a rubber stamp for this immoral President.

Mainstream politics is only a reflection of how something is presented. People will aways support lower taxes and more government spending. People will aways loathe terrorism and support democracy. People will always want the best healthcare for those who need it most. People will always dislike abortion and love children. But liberalism can become as mainstream as Reaganism..after all liberty is the bleeding heart of the USA!
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AlGore-08.com Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
30. I agree with the "unity" message but I take issue with using "decisive"
as a label for Clinton's wins in 1992 and 1996 (unless you're not talking about Clinton, in which case I apologize).

In 1992, Clinton's win was due in a large part to the bad economy, a weak Republican opponent and a very strong third party opponent. Clinton got less than 50% of the popular vote in most states in 1992; the only exceptions were Arkansas and D.C. (and D.C. isn't a state). Everywhere else, he got less than 50% of the state's votes - - that includes rabidly blue states like California (where Clinton got 46%) and Washington (where Clinton got 44%). Clinton won a number of states with less than 40% of that state's popular vote (New Hampshire, Maine, Montana and Nevada).

In 1996, even with an improved economy, even with the power of incumbency, even with Ross Perot refusing to run, even with the another weak Republican opponent, Clinton still won less than 50% of the popular vote.

Compare:

1992
Popular vote
Clinton: 43.01%
Bush I: 37.45%
Perot: 18.91%

Electoral vote:
Clinton: 370
Bush I: 168
Perot: 0

1996
Popular vote:
Clinton: 49.23%
Dole: 40.72%
Perot (who wasn't even running): 8.40%

Electoral vote:
Clinton: 379
Dole: 159
Perot: 0

Compare that to 1988:
Popular vote:
Bush I: 53.37%
Dukakis: 45.65% (note this is a larger percentage than Clinton got in 1992)
Paul (Libertarian): 0.47%

Electoral vote:
Bush I: 426
Dukakis: 111
Paul: 0

Or compare it to an actual "decisive" victory, the electoral landslide year of 1984:
Popular vote:
Reagan: 58.77%
Mondale: 40.56%
Bergland (Libertarian): 0.25%

Electoral vote:
Reagan: 525
Mondale: 13
Bergland: 0

Or even compare it to a year with a strong third party candidate, 1980:
Popular vote:
Reagan: 50.75%
Carter: 41.01%
Anderson: 6.61%

Electoral Vote:
Reagan: 489
Carter: 49
Anderson: 0

I'm not saying that Clinton didn't win, I'm saying that people need to recognize that Clinton's strategy is far less successful than the press generally portray it. If we are going to discuss Clinton's strategy as a possible blue print for future campaigns, we need to discuss the facts, not the spin.
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flaminbats Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-28-06 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. actually Perot did run in 1996!
Edited on Sun May-28-06 07:17 PM by flaminbats
He was even on the ballot in all 50 states, but wasn't allowed to participate in the 1996 debates. More importantly, the election results in 1996 show that Clinton would have won a majority of the votes without Perot on the ballot.

Republicans always love to claim that Perot only took conservative votes away from Bush and Dole...but remember, Perot opposed NAFTA, he supported higher tax increases than Clinton did, he was pro-choice, and in 1992 he attacked the Persian Gulf War as a mistake. Conservatives don't support these positions, liberals do! :pals:
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