The return of the trolls!

[BobcatJH]

I've written in-depth about trolls before. Not once, but twice. I've even devoted space to discussing right-wing blog commenters, specifically how to become one yourself. So I, like you, have seen my fair share of trolls.

Still mystifying, to me, is the fact that, no matter how firmly they've been rebutted, trolls come back for more. No matter how often you've thrown the facts in their faces, even doing a victory lap on their just-rebutted comment, they return, spoiling for a fight. A fight you could win with one hand tied behind your back. But a fight that would likely leave everyone muddied.

Of course, as old trolls fade away, new ones emerge, often spouting the same well-worn Republican talking points their predecessors wielded. Or, like other previous annoyances, they stop making sense altogether, another tried-and-true Republican tactic. Either way, as summer approaches, I'd like to introduce you to two new right-wing trolls.

Our first arrival graced my blog Saturday morning. Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to introduce you to Kevin Meeks:

I am one of the few consrvative democrats. I think Brad Stine is very funny and I agree with most of what he says.
I am even tempted to do a Ronald Reagan and change partys.
The Democrat Party use to stand for the honest working man.
Now they are just a bunch of God hating liberals.

For the purposes of some background, Brad Stine, the man Meeks cites, is a conservative Christian comedian. Thing is, he's not funny. Not only is Stine not funny, but he's also an ignorant jackass. He's a moron, so much so that nothing excites me more than the fact that my site offers the top two results for a Google search of "Brad Stine" and "moron".

All I had to do was post one criticism of Stine and I was flooded with comments. Most, of course, from right-wingers. Most scolding me for not finding Jesus. Most lacking in logic, proper grammar and punctuation. Which gets us to Meeks's comment, which can best be described by asking yourself: Huh? Here we have another so-called conservative Democrat, though the word "conservative" must not have an "e" in the universe in which our friend Kevin lives.

Kevin, quick to brandish his liberal bona fides, is even quicker to the defense of Stine, whose defenders include the Rev. Jerry Falwell, a well-known progressive further to the left than Russ Feingold. You remember Falwell, right, Kevin? He was the guy who blamed the September 11 attacks on "the pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way - all of them who have tried to secularize America." Think he's funny, too, Kevin?

No sooner does Kevin side with Stine than he likens himself to another rat, Ronald Reagan.
It takes a principled man, Kevin, to praise a man like Reagan, who, before he took office, he snitched to the House Un-American Activities Committee and was responsible for the blacklisting of several "suspected subversives". A man who, once in office, presided over a scandal-ridden presidency that helped chart America's course for the iceberg President Bush is so gleefully steering us toward today. Some role model, Kevin.

But the hilarity doesn't end there. Kevin continues, saying, "The Democrat Party use to stand for the honest working man. Now they are just a bunch of God hating liberals." Now, nothing should tip you off more that our friend isn't a Democrat more than his use of the phrase "Democrat Party". That aside, let's assume he actually is a Democrat. If that's the case, then I welcome his departure from the party. If you're so misguided, Kevin, that you believe what you said, there's little hope for you. Join the dark side. You'll find support there.

Our second new troll, American Patriot, visited my blog Monday night, speaking out in response to a story about our use of chemical weapons in Iraq:

oh please.. War is hell. Bad things happen. Innocent people get killed. That is the nature of war. That does not make people who supported this war in anyway culpable for any of the things you mentioned.

This is why you lefties and Democrats keep losing elections. Americans supported this war in large numbers initially because they know that some action was required to ensure America's future security after what they witnessed from the bloodthirsty Islamic terrorists on 9/11. As long as you Democrats and lefties keep sympathizing with the enemies and don't recognize the great danger from the Islamists and the Middle-East, Americans will never vote for you.

All you do is focus on the bad things and tar our brave men and women serving the military with your broad brush.

Yes, of course, the Haditha killings were wrong and the soldiers must be punished if the charges are true. But you are making it sound like this is common and widespread. It isn't.

I hate to break it to you, but the average American is not going to get hysterical over this issue, as much as the pathetic liberal media and you liberal bloggers desperately try to hype this incident up. Americans support the troops and will continue to do so despite the occasional incidents like this. All you're doing by focussing so much attention on this issue and getting all hysterical is showing why you liberals and Democrats are so completely out of touch with the average American. Please keep it up... because it will ensure mainstream American will never vote for you.

You may recognize the Patriot's style: Unsolicited advice coming from an obvious right-winger with no stake in a progressive victory. Thanks, but no thanks, Patriot. Is there a single right-wing talking point this comment lacks? War is hell but you won't see me fighting it? Check. Iraq linked to September 11? Check. Democrats support the terrorists? Check. Liberals only focus on the bad news? Check. Democrats are out-of-touch? Check. You wanted an unfiltered Republican response? You got it.

Here's the thing, Patriot. There's a way to fight a war that doesn't include supporting using chemical weapons on civilians. Or torturing prisoners. Or operating secret prisons. Or massacring innocent Iraqis. And there's a way to support the troops without supporting their mission. But nuance is a concept lacking in the Republican mind. As is, apparently, compassion.

No, Patriot, not compassion for the actual enemy. Compassion for the women and children we've needlessly murdered. Compassion for the Americans your president has sent to die in a war based on lies. Only an idiot would believe progressives think every soldier in Iraq is indicative of those at Abu Ghraib or Haditha. But, then again, only idiots would absolve themselves from the guilt-by-association that can only come with supporting an unpopular war criminal like the president.

And that's just it, Patriot: This administration and its policies aren't popular. And the "average American" you cite knows this. You can cite the "liberal media" and "liberal bloggers" all you want, but no amount of rhetorical flourish can shield Americans from the truth. They say the truth hurts, Patriot. Your party will find that out this fall. They also say the truth will set you free. It's high time you heed that advice, my misguided friend.

Will Kevin or the Patriot return? If history is our guide, probably. If they do, however, you can be sure of only one thing: They'll leave logic at home. There's no need for it where they come from.

[progdonkey]

1. great post....

just one little snark: "conservative" may not have an "e" in the troll's "universie," but "universe" doesn't have an "i" in mine, either... :spank:

I normally wouldn't mention it, as everyone's fingers slip from time to time, but when it happens when you're criticizing someone else for not spell-checking, it's too easy to pass up. ;-)

[BobcatJH]

2. Good point

You trolled my troll post! Just kidding. Great catch.

[drm604]

3. Nice Work!

You've caught some extremely typical specimens there, in the wild! Unfortunately they seem to be very common.

Of course, just because they all use the same talking points and make the same logical mistakes that doesn't mean they're part of an organized effort to appear more numerous than they are. :sarcasm:

A very enjoyable read. Thanks.

[Catrina]

4. Good post. You asked if you missed a talking point. Here's one I've

seen a lot of lately:

'What I have a problem with is people who are outraged over Haditha (not that I condone this if it is true) but are not at all angry about the Insurgents who are killing women and children.'

This is meant to imply that it is only hypocrites who are outraged over the deliberate killing of innocent civilians, while pretending to 'fair and balance' themselves and subtly defending the war itself.

[BobcatJH]

5. This sounds familiar

In right-wing land, replace "Haditha" with "the death penalty" and "Insurgents who are killing women and children" with "abortion".

[Trajan]

11. In all fairness ....

I AM angry about 'insurgents' who are killing women and children ....

And so should everyone be angry ....

It is WRONG to not criticise ANY parties who would kill innocents ....

The moral position against killing innocent human beings is consistent, and universal ....

They want to pretend that we make the distinction : We should not ... we cannot .... and I will never ....

[Catrina]

12. Yes, of course, I totally agree. That is why people oppose wars except

when there is no avoiding them. Trolls pretend to think that people who oppose this war ONLY oppose the deaths of innocent people if WE do it. It is an erroneous assumption and they know it. Before this war began, those who do care about and respecet life, predicted that there would be consequences such as the deaths of civilians, not only from the bombs dropped by the US but by criminals who would take advantage of the breakdown in law and order.

Trolls are identifiable because they inject this erroneous talking point into conversations to imply that anti-violent people are selective. It is a lie and they know it and I have never seen any honest person do it.

Rightwing pro-war manipulators use it when the discussion is about crimes like Haditha. Naturally we don't list every crime each time one particular crime is being discussed. The introduction of that talking point is to distract from the topic under discussion. A criminal act occurred in Haditha. Discussing that in no way means that other crimes are ignored by people who are anti-this-war. Most honest people understand that. Trolls understand it also, but pretend to 'wonder' about the 'motives' of those who oppose the war. It's deceptive and even when told 'of course those criminals are to be condemned, why would you think otherwise'? They won't let it go, but continue to repeat and repeat it. I for one, will not fall for their tactics. I've been exposed to them for several years now, and their dishonesty is obvious.

[mcscajun]

6. Brad Stine: Not Funny.

I posted this two weeks ago on XM411, and then I e-mailed it to the Program Director for XM Comedy:

Brad Stine is NOT a Comic or a Comedian

So WHY is he on Laugh USA?

Have you LISTENED to this guy at all?

He may style himself "America's Conservative Comedian", but all he does is preach, harangue and demagogue non-stop. He doesn't give his audience time to breathe, much less laugh. He's pursuing a political and religious agenda, and the laugh is on XM. Everytime I recognize his voice, My hair stands on end and I have to rush to switch channels, or turn off XM altogether.

His lines are stuffed with references such as "...and that’s the problem with these secular humanists.” He's a mouthpiece for the Pat Robertson and Rick Santorum powers-that-be. If he belongs anywhere on XM, it's on one of the Religious channels or Right-Wing Talk channels, NOT on Laugh USA.

I included this link to a New Yorker article 'telling all' about Brad and his connection to the Christian Right Nutjobs (although I didn't use that phrase in my e-mail):

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040809fa_fact

(This article is worth a read, BTW, not because of Brad Stine, but for what it adds to our knowledge of the tools used by the RW nutjobs that would wreck this country.)

Here's what I got back from the Program Director for XM Comedy:

I understand why Brad Stine irritates you, the same way I understand why Lewis Black irritates the folks who voted for George Bush. From my perspective, one complaint is as legitimate as the other one but if I started taking comics off the air because they offended certain listeners, we wouldn't have much of a play list. (Lucky for you, liberal comics out number conservative ones about 500 to 1.)

Thanks for sharing, and listening.

Now, I wasn't asking for Stine to be taken off the air...but that's where he started. He is right on his final point though, Brad Stine is only one irritant out of a handful, stacked against an overwhelming bunch of talented, funny people on the XM Comedy channels.

[kiraboo]

7. You know what strikes me when I read your post?

That these people are completely unable even to masquerade as compassionate, concerned democrats. It is outside of their nature. Their parody is merely sad.

[SpiralHawk]

8. BiushCo pays the trolls to post propaganda

You can bet your bippy. It's part of the overall repulicon disinformation campaign to support their cabal of corrupt cronies.

[NobleCynic]

9. Read the new yorker article on Stine

Most of the guy's stuff is revolting but he has at least a few good lines.

On gay marriage: “Guys want to marry other guys?” Beat. “Cowards!”

Even for a pro-gay rights guy like me, for any straight guy, that is damn funny. It's like that old Fred Flintsone line: "When will they invent something for men to marry other than women?"

or Stine's rant against Christian habits:

"Stine has faith that his journey is being guided by the hand of Providence. He addresses this subject in one of his new routines, which makes fun of bumper stickers that read “god is my co-pilot.” He says, “I think a good rule of thumb is, if God’s in the car, Let. Him. Drive. He’s got insurance. He can talk his way out of tickets. He can knock the radar gun back a couple of notches—nobody’d know.” He goes on, “ ‘God is my co-pilot’? For crying out loud, this guy is taking charge, and he’s toting God around, like God couldn’t handle himself!” Then, for the punch line, Stine does his God impression: “You take the wheel—I’m not familiar with this area.”"

I've seen these bumper stickers, and that is funny to me.

Ridicule the comedian, he deserves it by all means. But understand your enemy. Understand why he's funny to Christians. Keep in mind that it isn't just ranting against the "liberal conspiracy" that keeps him popular. He is also a comedian. A mediocre comdeian granted, but come on! Show them a little mercy. What decent comedians do the conservatives have? 1? 2 maybe? It's just something about the mindset that doesn't breed humor. Even Dennis Miller lost all comedic value when he went all conservative nut-fuck after 9/11. To think I thought him funny at one point... Point is we must analyze and comprehend the entire mindset, lifestyle, and sub-culture that the far-right has created in order to counter it.

[Greyhound]

10. I saw an ancient SNL the other night from when

Dennis (I used to have a sense of humor, sort of) Miller was a regular and Sam Kinnison was the guest host. My Dog, I'd forgotten how really bad Sam made other "comics" look when he riffed with them.

Kinnison is dead, Miller is a fat re:puke: and you want me to believe in God?

[omega minimo]

13. And any insight into why

when phonies bring obvious (correctly spelled) reverse-psych shite into DU on fishing expeditions, DUers will rise to the bait?

[blitzen]

14. FYI, Kevin Meeks is a morning talk-radio host in Baton Rouge...

he teams up with a hardcore Freeper and plays the moderately left character--sort of like Colmes with Hannity. The troll "Kevin Meeks" thinks it's funny to pretend that the real Kevin Meeks is finally turning Freeper. Pretty lame.