ok, after we "win" the War on Terror, they'll return our civil rights?

[Lerkfish]

I'm guessing so, since they keep claiming they're taking our rights in the fight on the war against terror.
So, as soon as the war's over, we'll get them back, right?

but wait a minute, there can be no end to the war on terror, its a war against a concept, so it will never be over.

And our rights will never be returned to us.


ever thought about it that way? I did.


Reminds me of my late father's will. My sister was left an antique organ by our elderly aunt when she was 13. My dad said he'd keep it for her until she "proved responsible". When he finally passed, my sister was 40, and the organ was still at my dad's. He left it to her, again, in HIS will. At the wake, she was relieved she was finally going to get the organ. I pointed out to her something she was overlooking: obviously, my dad never intended for her to get the organ while he still lived, to have written it in his will. The "proved responsible" brass ring was unreachable, on purpose.

I think the overtaking of our rights, explained by the war on terror, is an intentional unreachable brass ring. We will NEVER be done with this conceptual war. Therefore, every right they subsume we will never see again. There will not be a point where it is returned to us. As they encroach further and further onto our civil liberties, keep in mind they never intend to retreat.

think about it.

[Warpy]

1. Old money is terrified of many things

but the one fear they cling to most dearly is the fear of free people.

Free people can tell them to go to hell, rendering their money and power irrelevant.

It's why they will always try to starve workers and why they will work tirelessly to overturn the Bill of Rights.

[eShirl]

2. the founders intended for us to jealously guard our rights & freedom

they knew they were extremely difficult to regain once lost

[marmar]

3. There's an apropros Orwell quote:

’In accordance with the principles of double-think it does not matter
if the war is not real. For when it is, victory is not possible. The
war is not meant to be won, but it is meant to be continuous.’

[MissWaverly]

4. It's like the War on Drugs mantra

But the kicker is that Bush has used terrorism as a "rationale" to get more power, do you think
that he's suddenly going to give that up?

[Proud Liberal Dem]

5. EXACTLY What I'm Afraid Of

Due to the seemingly open-ended nature of Bush's so-called "War on Terror," I too fear the endless "power grab" by Bush that has occurred, in some cases rather blatantly and publicly, since 9/11. I strongly believe that our country is heading down a path that is paving the way for Bush and/or his successors to assume dictatorial(-like) powers. I am especially concerned about his ability arbitrarily label and detain individuals as "enemy combatants" without charging them with crimes and denying them access to counsel and the ability to challenge their dention for the duration of this "war" since nobody has defined when exactly this "war" might end. Right now it is alleged terrorists but tomorrow it could conceivably be any one of us. Terrorism is certainly an issue that needs to be confronted but NOT the way that Bush and the GOP have dealt with it and any rights taken away in the name of this "war" are NEVER going to be given back, at least not peaceably, and certainly not by the people who take it for themselves. It would seem that Bush and GOP somehow believe that they will be entrenched in power for an indefinite amount of time because they would no doubt be screaming for impeachment of Bill Clinton or any other Democrat engaged in the kind of "power grab" that Bush has been during the past four years and the moment that any Democrat is lucky enough to win the White House the GOP will certainly see to it that they are stripped the same powers that they have assumed for themselves. It is ironic that members of the GOP, particular those in the "fringe right" have always been obsessed with the possibility that the Democrats would be the party that would bring on martial law in this country.

[Lerkfish]

6. repubs always accuse others of their own crimes and plans.

they always wanted martial law, they just feared the democrats thought like they did and would get there first.

[gulliver]

7. It's even worse than that.

Like you say, they will erode civil liberties permamently. But it won't even have to accomplish anything in fighting terrorism. They will do it simply to look like they are taking action, like old "physicians" who used blood-letting and trephining. Desperate people will grasp at anything, but the true pity of America right now is that we don't need to be so desperate. We are being driven to hyperventilation by quacks, liars, and incompetents, and we seem to be taking far too long to wise up.

Many things we are losing, perhaps never to be regained, were lost by Bush. (Territory lost to terrorism, America's good name) Other things were taken from us by Bush as quack remedies for the ills he has caused (illegal wiretapping, 2,500 soldiers lives, hundreds of billions of dollars bled to Halliburton, to the sand, to weapons manufacturers). It's just a sick, sick cycle of madness we are watching as the poor patient (America) dies covered in leeches, a hole drilled in her skull to let out the evil spirits, driven to bankruptcy...

And Doctor Bush doesn't even have to tell people what he is doing. He (sorry but no other word works) fucks up and fucks up, and all the people who hired him can do is support him to cover their own mistake. Sooner or later the piper has to be paid. The lossage that Bush and his rubber stamp team in both houses of Congress have caused has to be stopped. The adult in everyone who cares about our country has to say enough is enough. It's long past due.