Antagonize and be confrontational...

[Ned_Devine]

It seems that this is all Republicans and their mouth pieces do...and they do it about insignificant minutia. So, can't the Democrats do the same thing? What about us? Can we start whisper campaigns? I still think that all of these Sen.'s and Congressmen voting for anti-gay legislature are hiding something. Why not just call them out on being gay? If repub. voters found out they were gay they'd never vote for them and nobody on our side would vote for them because they're repubs (not because they're gay, hopefully our side embraces all of our gay representation)
Discuss this amongst yourselves
B

[Ron Green]

1. I think Democrats' fundamental problem

is that we are love-based, meaning finding the connections and commonalities with others (even those different from ourselves), while Republicans are fear-based - finding fault with others, having enemies, and exercising control.

In the political arena, the fear-based approach will prevail.

[BOSSHOG]

3. John Kerry is a polite statesmen

but he would have had to get in the gutter in 04 to win the election. Very sad. The one thing the gop knows how to do is win elections, even more sadness. And they win because their base is ignorant and hateful and has to be fed often.

[sui generis]

5. no, we're chickenshit

We don't have to use fear, but being non-confrontational is a poor value to hold higher than fixing the problem, and we often feel superior after losing because at least we didn't lose our temper or use any poo poo words. That's cracked.

Well, bullies love that. However much we love the idea of Ghandi, when it comes down to it somebody is risking losing everything by refusing confrontation if the other guy doesn't have a social conscience, and I have just described America, not India.

We have to be absolutely clear in our resolve, and in our willingness to tell it like it is. We have "values" too. We need to dick-slap anyone who thinks that social conservative "values" intersect the values of life, liberty, the and pursuit of happiness or that American individuals should have fewer and "lesser" rights than corporate entities.

Feingold has the balance right. Hackett needed some polish but his heart was in the right place. We don't need "cleverness" and "entendre" and other typical (pardon me) liberal smarminess (and I am an arch-liberal). We need plain speaking, and fighters who are fast on their feet. We need political testosterone, not lovey dovey, not boogeymen, terrorists, fear, or even false optimism. We need clarity. We need bulleted plans. We need less "decorum", more conviction and fewer Kerry-esque dissertations. We need to note when someone is scoffing or posturing and point it out - make THEM look like the clowns they are. We do not need to pull any punches ever. Let's just call that ongoing education "negative reinforcement". The more often you rip their head off by reaching through their rectum the less likely they are to host talk shows, wear bow ties and tell you what a wimpy liberal you are.

When we get swiftboated, we say "they're not playing fair". We take 24 hours to respond. We question their motives. We expect everyone else will see what is obvious to us. They don't. They're not impressed with how clever we are. They're impressed with how strong we are. Most people vote for strength, as a matter of survival. Telling someone your feelings are hurt or you are "wounded by the allegations" and playing the pity card just makes you look lame-ass and pathetic (thank you again Skinner).

There are better strategies than nicey nice.

Those wings in my avatar just hide the tail and hooves.

[Ron Green]

11. Thanks for that thoughtful post. I'm not convinced, though, that the

masses are ready for the clear message that homosexuality is OK, or that protecting our Constitution is more important than finding and fighting boogeymen, or that it's best to take tax money from the moneyed class to which they aspire (and some foolishly already believe they belong.)

I fully agree with you that plain-speaking liberals and populists are sorely needed in Congress and at all levels of state and local government as well. I don't agree that people are ready for the truth, of which the paragraph above is a small sample. I didn't even start on the fact that our car-based transportation system has got to go away.

[sui generis]

12. we're not telling people that homosexuality is okay

we're telling them that personal choice is okay. That sexuality, like broccoli, is a private matter. It's up to them whether they like it or not, just the same as whether they like broccoli or not, but broccoli, like homosexuality, is a private affair. Although plenty of people don't like broccoli for their own reasons, we don't make it illegal for people we don't know to eat broccoli just because WE don't like it ourselves.

The masses will never be ready - that's why we pick leaders we trust to inform us, to challenge us, to bring us along, and ultimately, to listen to us, but they have to be convinced themselves, and not just paying lip service to a poll.

The fact of the matter is a good leader would say, there are are issues in the world that need our attention because they impact us directly. There are people we would like to make decisions about whom these discussions impact directly. But the issues of people with green eyes, or of people with red hair are all of our issues, the issues of our friends, our children, our siblings, our neighbors, and our fellow Americans. Laws that impact them, impact us. If we don't all look out for each other, the people who would lynch someone for having green eyes, or brown skin, or red hair, or being gay are going to come after you some day. We have an opportunity to be GOOD people, because keeping some Americans from being happy because of who they are is not being GOOD - it's hurting them, and it's the agenda of people who enjoy feeling superior about themselves by putting other people down.

If you want to be proud to be an American then let's not divide America. America is all of us, and we have to each work at this together or it won't work at all. We have to step out of the darkness and fear and feeling of helplessness we've had over the past few years and into the light, and be strong and honor each others lives as Americans in a country that our ancestors dreamed of and built and that we will have to pass on to our children and their loved ones and children.

If you don't like broccoli or gays, or if you do, in this country you have a choice and no matter what you choose for yourself you are still American until you make that choice FOR someone else.

Lead. I'd do it in a heartbeat.

[xchrom]

14. i wanna kick this post.

[xchrom]

15. and i really really wanna kick this post.

you are so right on the money, dude.

it really is about how we approach them{the repukes} -- it really really is about a good MUSCULAR offense.

there are people out there who would vote democratic party -- or vote liberal -- if we stood up for ourselves with strength -- real strength.
and i'm convinced those are people who would not other wise vote liberal -- BUT every one LOVES a winner.

so always always act like one in the game of politics.

i don't mean we have to sound like president dumbass{what's that done for the country} but we can be way more direct and on the offensive than we have been.

it'll make the party more liberal, more progressive to boot, mark my words.

[BOSSHOG]

2. bush has certainly changed the tone in America

I use to be a happy go lucky, cool calm and collected navy retiree. But not anymore. Confrontational is my middle name. I have a hard time tolerating conservative hate and ignorance and I let them know it. I've resorted to playing the Vet Card which pisses me off.

If any republicans were discovered to be gay, their base would find some way to rationalize it and forgive them.

[gaspee]

4. Me too

I used to try to use reason and be nice. Fuck that. Confrontational actaully works with these people. Know why? Because they are the playground bully who only backs down when you stand up for yourself. I don't mean fighting. I mean not backing down from telling the truth and not "agreeing to disagree."

[Sammy Pepys]

6. I hate the whole "closeted gay Repub" strategy

We're basically trading on the idea that being homosexual is something to be ashamed about when it should be something to be proud of.

Tactics like that don't enable us to capture the high ground on issues like homosexuality in America.

[Ned_Devine]

7. That highground is lon gone...

If you read the way I closed out the idea, I sais that we embrace our gay representatives whereas they would castigate them on their side

[Sammy Pepys]

8. Then what sense does it make....

...to out them in a malicious way on the Repub side? Engineering a huge rumor-mongering campaign like that runs a serious risk of alienating homosexuals.

[iconoclastNYC]

10. Wrong.

The problem is that that the closet is an evil, soul-sucking institution.

If you deny your sexuality (which is hardwired into your brain) how easy is it for you to say black is white, up is down, and i'm doing good when in fact you are doing evil? Pretty fucking easy.

The operative words is closeted, that's what's wrong with the GOP gays. And the hypocrisy of doing whatever you want with your cock and yet saying people who do so without shame are wrong and are harming society.

[Sammy Pepys]

13. Sorry, but....

...the thread author suggests just "outing" people based on whims and hunches without any proof, and if the Dems are really going to be the folks who stay out of peoples private lives and bedrooms, such a strategy completely weakens that effort.

[iconoclastNYC]

9. Amen brother.

The problem is the media controls our party. When we get out of line they beat us. It's battered wife syndrome.

I'm dissapointed there isn't a left-wing news network yet. We can win 50% of the audience by telling the truth and being tough on Republicans (especially the worst kinds, the partisan Bush bots).

[CANDO]

16. It's the Limbaugh effect

I get it many times from guys I work with. In the evening when I get to work they'll come over to me all fired up on a specific issue and just hammer away with whatever talking point they heard from their three hour Rush fix earlier in the day.