What is going on in New Jersey?

[question everything]

According to news reports - not necessarily accurate, of course - Gov. Corzine wants to raise sales tax while the legislative prefer income tax on the wealthiest.

Doesn't he realize that sales tax is regressive? The millionaires will flee NJ? Where to? NY?

Doesn't he realize that if NJ has a lower sales tax than NY that he can gain from increased traffic from NY?

And do we really want a Democratic governor as a poster boy for "tax and spend Democrats?"

Many states have seen their budget turned black in the past year, or so. Why not NJ?

What am I missing?

[Skink]

1. He worked for Goldman Sachs.

He's wealthy.

[question everything]

2. Ug. And compare him to Clinton and Kerry who were ready to pay more

during the 2004 campaign.

[no_hypocrisy]

3. Corzine is doing the most responsible thing: trying to balance

the budget and pay down the enormous debt racked up by past administrations, notably Christine Todd Whitman, whose idea of balancing the budget was to borrow, borrow, borrow.

Corzine came into his job knowing that he was going to be the fall guy for something he didn't cause. This is the time of reckoning for the state. He knows that raising the sales tax is wildly unpopular, and he didn't want to cut services to the point of making the state inoperable. (And he didn't want to raise the income tax. As a matter of fact, he tried to plan this budget to attempt to get a grip on the escalating local property taxes that are driving longtime residents out of their homes.) As much as I don't look forward to paying more money, I understand that as a state, we can't go any further without a plan to handle the enormous debt we've incurred.

[LiberalEsto]

5. You're right.

NJ property taxes have gone way up for many reasons, including the B*sh Misadministration's budget cutting and elimination of funds for all the thousands of police hired during the Clinton years. Other cuts include education aid and transportation funding. And Whitman's shameless raiding of the teachers' pension fund was another rethug disgrace.

Real estate prices have also driven property assessments way up. And reductions in the work force and lower salaries mean less dollars paid in income and sales taxes.

But I think New Jersey's biggest problem is of its own making -- home rule. Home rule means each of its 700-odd municipalities has its own mayor and local government. NJ had 561 school districts in 1990, when I moved to Maryland. Maryland has 22 school districts, one for each county plus one for Baltimore City. New Jersey has 561 school superintendents, 561 bus systems, 561 cafeteria systems, 561 school library systems. It's an overwhelming example of duplication and waste.

My property taxes are about a quarter of what they would be for a similar house in NJ within 18 miles of NYC and in a top notch school district. I'm 18 miles outside Washington DC and our schools are some of the best in the US. Our sales and income taxes are less than New Jersey's.

And why won't NJ give up Home Rule? Racism. People who have spent big bucks to buy a house in a good school district will not stand for having poor urban kids in their schools. Until this issue is resolved, New Jerseyans are going to keep struggling with huge property tax bills.

[Jersey Devil]

6. You hit the nail right on the head

I live in Bergen County where there are 76 separate towns for a population of about 900,000. Towns like Tenafly which is lily white sit right next to towns like Englewood which is mostly minorities and 'home rule' keeps it that way. Tenafly has among the best schools in the state and Englewood has among the worst.

We have more police chiefs, school superintendents, Mayors, fire departments and redundant titles and services than just about any other area of the country from what I've seen.

[no_hypocrisy]

7. Home Rule. It's more competitive than that.

In Bergen County, where is there is spectre of regionalization between the towns of Oakland, Franklin Lakes, and Wyckoff, Franklin Lakes is the town with the "rich(er) people". Depending on where your house is, your kids go either to Ramapo High School in Franklin Lakes or Indian Hills High School in Oakland. Parents have threatened legal action if their kids, who are supposed to go to Oakland, aren't allowed to attend and get a diploma from Ramapo. (It is assumed that just having association with Ramapo increases your kid's chances of admission to Harvard with a C-average.)

And this is WITH regionalization, and loss of local rule. Can you imagine towns saving money but losing their prestige and parents paying tax dollars into a pot that funds education for families who earn less than they do? I can't see it.

[LiberalEsto]

8. That's one reason the Maryland system works well

Here in Montgomery County, MD, we have lower-income areas and higher-income areas. But because we have specialized magnet programs at many schools, kids can opt to transfer our of their local schools. So our urban areas don't automatically become sinkholes of poverty and poor education.

In Montgomery County there are International Baccalaureate programs at some high schools; other schools specialize in the arts, computers, science, or environmental education, just to name a few. Some elementary schools have Chinese, French or Spanish immersion programs that begin in kindergarten, or just academic magnet programs for the gifted and talented. There are also magnet middle schools. The resources our schools offer are unlike anything I saw growing up in Wayne, Passaic County, NJ in the 1960s.

So a city like Rockville, with a prestigious IB program at Richard Montgomery High School, continues to attract and retain an upper middle class community, although people of all income levels live there. Rockville is about the same size as New Brunswick, NJ, but because the New Brunswick schools are lousy, the only families who live there and send their kids to those schools are the ones who can't afford to move anywhere else. Most of the middle class has fled New Brunswick, except for small pockets of people who send their kids to private schools.

New Jersey's cities, Newark, Elizabeth, Trenton, Camden, Paterson, would be able reverse their decline and attract middle class residents if their schools had the resources of county-wide systems. Even wealthy communities would be able to offer opportunities for students who might wish to focus on things such as drama or environmental studies, that a single local district could not afford to provide.

My kids both graduated from Montgomery County public schools and say they think their education was excellent. Both have been in college classes that were less advanced than the ones they had in high school.

[karynnj]

10. I was shocked to find that there are even school districts

with NO schools - but they still had administration to manage where the kids were sent.

[question everything]

11. Self delete

answered in the next post

[Jersey Devil]

4. Not exactly as "regressive" as you think

First of all, NJ's sales tax is not as "regressive" as most sales taxes because it does not include many items that would hurt the poor the most. For instance, there is no sales tax on clothing, which causes thousands of New Yorkers (where clothes are taxed) to come to NJ to buy clothes. There are also "enterprise zones" in poor areas like Elizabeth, Newark, Camden, Jersey City, etc., where the sales tax is half the state rate to promote business growth in those areas. Yes, sales taxes are generally regressive but NJ's are much less so than others.

The alternative offered to increase income taxes on "the rich" (those with incomes over $200,000) was never seriously discussed. The fight was really a political power play by southern NJ political boss Norcross.

NJ has among the highest property taxes in the nation. This is the biggest problem facing our state and Corzine has pledged to tackle that next, but first he had to get the budget on solid footing without relying on the gimmicks to balance the budget that were employed during the Whitman - McGreevey years.

I live in a modest town in Bergen County, certainly not one of the "rich" towns referred to by others in posts about NJ, and pay over $10,600 per year in property taxes. That's what we're really worried about, not someone who has to plunk down an extra $500 in sales taxes for his $50,000 SUV.

[question everything]

12. This was my question in the above post - self deleted

of whether items of necessity - basic grocery and clothings are exempt from sales tax.

Increasing sales tax is a problem that is going to boil over all across the country - the way it was in California in 1978 (Proposition 13).

I think that property tax should be replaced with income tax. As someone who have gone through several cycles of unemployment - property tax was one item that could not be trimmed. And there are many seniors and other fixed income or low income homeowners that have to make a decision between selling their homes of spending all their income and savings on property taxes.

Good luck to all of you. I hope that something will be achieved.

[Jersey Devil]

13. Food is also exempt from sales tax

except for restaurant food & takeout, along with toiletries, diapers, medicines, clothes and footwear, and disposable paper products for use in the home. Also exempt are home improvements done by a contractor such as a new roof, etc.

[Gloria]

14. Remember the firestorm years ago about the tax on toilet paper??

Wow, it was incredible...after the uproar, the leg. took the sales tax off toilet paper.

It was sort of like the Boston Tea Party, only it was toilet paper that the populace rallied around!! LOL

[karynnj]

9. self delete

The last post said same thing far better.