Too wierd...KOS is defending Ann Coulter (free pass on plagiarism)

[farmbo]

And all hell's breaking out over on The Daily Kos:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/7/11290/58796

"TPM Muckracker has an itemized list of Ann Coulter's supposed plagiarism, and sorry to say, there's not much there.

Coulter is a lot of things, but it doesn't look like plagiarism is one of them.

To me personally, some of the examples/accusations seem strained -- simply similar statements of the same basic facts. And sometimes there are only so many ways to describe one set of facts. In other cases the similarities of the wording strike me as hard to see as a coincidence. Especially when there seem to be multiple instances of similarities in the same column coming from the same source.(Josh Marshall)



What these examples show is that Coulter is a lazy writer who rips off other people's research, but stealing someone else's arguments isn't "plagiarism". It's just being a lazy, unimaginative writer." <snip>

Whodatunkit Kos...maybe Ann was right about Tail Gunner Joe McCarthy as well?

Go figure. :rant:

[enlightenment]

1. Sounds like Kos needs to brush up on the complexities of the crime --

"stealing someone else's argument" can certainly be plagiarism, along with being lazy and unimaginative. Plagiarism is intellectual theft, the theft of ideas -- it's not often blatant (unless you're reading freshman essays - sigh), but it is always wrong. The safe thing to do, if you're not sure, is cite the source and save yourself grief.

It doesn't matter if Ms. Coulter did it intentionally or not -- laziness is not an excuse.

[nealmhughes]

8. In academic writing, credit for the concept must be given or face

plagarism charges. That is one reason sometimes why the opening parts of articles' footnotes are a long discursive one with the credit to all who have come before clearly cited, even if no quotes are used.
But then again, the coulter is the equivalent of a bodice ripper anyhow, the Barbara Cartland of political prose.

[enlightenment]

17. As an academic, I do understand . . . nt

[Maddy McCall]

2. I just read all of the passages at TPM...

I agree, to an extent, with Josh Marshall.

There are several passages, though, that are, save a word or two, verbatim plagiarism.

[farmbo]

3. Kos is undercutting Media Matters, Firedoglake,Huffpost, RudePundit...

...etc, etc...with a highly technical if not specious argument on Ann's behalf.

And he's undercutting all of these other Websites which have done far more research on the topic.

And for what?

Ann Fu!@#%g Coulter?

What a waste of bandwidth.

[Kagemusha]

5. I'm surprised no one's accused him of taking money for this yet.

Gee, Kos isn't a mindless robot. News at 11.

So flimsy or not you want it shouted from the rooftops. Fair enough, I just think that, too, is a waste of bandwidth.

[farmbo]

6. No...Kos isn't corrupt or stupid...just weird to defend the indefensible.

Coulter will 1)Use Kos' diary as exhibit A on any talking head show when plagiarism comes up, and 2) go on to call Kos (and all Kossaks) godless, deviant un American queers.

Go figure.

[Awsi Dooger]

4. I posted basically the same thing yesterday on another forum

No one despises her any more than I do but these charges are flimsy at best. Normally 20-30 words describing a basic fact, as Kos correctly puts it. That's the same way I described it yesterday. She isn't plagarizing paragraph after paragraph on political theory, something where every word is potentially meaningful and the entirety is indisputably unique. She takes a small section referencing a fact and alters a few words but otherwise leaves the section intact. Big deal.

[Debs]

18. What you just described

Is a textbook definition of plagiarism. Even paraphrasing someone elses words is plagiarism. I have looked at what they are talking about and the claims look very solid to me. She has been accused of plagiarism before and seems to do it both in her column and her books. It may not seem like a big deal to you, but trust me to anyone who makes their living writing or in academic circles plagiarism is ALWAYS a big deal

[Foolkiller]

7. Coulter has made a lot of money off her books . . .

. . . Isn't it possible that she's just paying Kos for good publicity? We know he cashes those kind of checks.

[Reckon]

9. Why would any intelligent person defend Coulter?

I don't even like the free press she keeps getting, including here.

[Debs]

19. I dont even like

being the same species as the creature

[KharmaTrain]

10. Kos Has No Dog In This Hunt

Sorry...he's not channelling talking points to me. This is as much about Coultergeist getting under the New York City media's skin one too many time too often and methinks there's a swiftboating of her going on within her own ranks. Consider the source of the original charge...The New York Murdoch Post...shall I repeat...The Post, not the Times. When she was a "merry prankster" and a nice little bomb thrower that didn't embarass the right wing, she was their darling. She did the Don Rickles act of tossing the venomous insults then used the "just kidding folks" line as though it was just an act and we all should see it that way.

In recent years she's stopped playing that game. She knows that outrageous sells and she's sold herself to Murdochs competitors and ruffled a lot of egos. If you think Coultergeist is unbearable as a protagonist, I'd imagine having to defend her or put up with her boorish personna has to be grating after a while. She went one step too far with her slam on the 9/11 widows and then went running to Rupert's competition...GE/NBC and got the royal treatment...she shunned the Faux shows and methinks a little payback (or some long overdue ones) had come home to roost.

Now it's a pissing match between the Post and Universal Syndicate...the company that pipelines her bile onto 100 or so papers across the country. The Post doesn't appear to be backing down and has created a cloud that Universal is trying to clean up. Justin Rood at TPMuckracker has done a great job in covering this story as he's been in touch with some of the principals in the story...and its as much about the way the newspaper biz cleans its own house as it is about anything Coultergeist say or Kos for that matter. Acid Annie just pissed off the wrong people this time and she could be knocked down a peg for it.

Don't think this is the end of her...far from it. Now she's got a new cross to bear...and bear it she will. If anything, this creature is a media maven and knows how to get the mug time and milk it to the most effect.

Franken has done more to debunk Coultergeist than anyone, but facts be damned. This is strictly a pissing war between two media organizations and it'll be interesting to see how it plays out and how Coultergeist attempts to parlay it into more headlines and PR.

Stay tuned...

[farmbo]

11. Very insightful post...Now for my Sat. morning fire stoker...

Query: Could Kos (and for that matter Josh Marshall) be protecting himself from an upcoming attack concerning his own book?

This new software program, iThenticate, makes it a breeze to level plagiarism charges.

Has Kos run "Crashing The Gates" thru the program and gotten some hits?

Just askin' is all.

[msanthrope]

12. Nice Post, thanks for the info....n/t

[choie]

13. Kos has been pissing me off

since he declared that alternative theories about what happened on 9/11 are forbidden on his blog.

[SaveElmer]

14. I don't usually defend Kos...

Gets on his high horse to much for me, particulary concerning Democrats he doesn't like. Still a good read ususally when he is going after Republicans.

But...unlike Republicans he doesn't maintain an indefensible position simply because it bashes his opposition. He is doing exactly what we criticize Republicans for not doing - recognizing the truth of a situation. He doesn't see plagarism (and neither do I), and says so.

[LoZoccolo]

16. And defending a weak position never works for the Republicans anyways.

We generally see right through them and really aren't fooled. I think pretty much the only reason they continue doing that is to keep themselves solidified, and maybe make themselves look too obnoxious and irrational to bother arguing with.

That having been said, it still makes her look like a bad writer!

[LoZoccolo]

15. Yes, this one partial skepticism of an argument against Coulter...

...makes Kos a total traitor, and something to spend hours arguing about four months before a possible turning-point election. I think we should take this afternoon and dedicate it to proving our own loyalty, by questioning that of Kos.

[The Gunslinger]

20. Ive removed them from my favorites a long time ago....