Wake up guys...

[mr715]

A Few Truthes:

1. The DLC has no real power.

2. Saying that every election we lose is stolen is defeatist and ignores the real issues because if we CAN'T win, we shouldn't even be trying.

3. George W. Bush will never get impeached.

4. Joe Lieberman is better than any Republican

5. Joe Lieberman is no Zell Miller.

6. There are no ideologically pure Democrats.

7. The Democratic party is a coalition.

8. Candy Crowley is just horrendously ugly.

[Selatius]

1. Umm...who said Lieberman = Zell? Is that a strawman you threw out?

[Behind the Aegis]

4. Ummm...you are kidding, right?!

Or do you not regularly read DU?

There are plenty who make that charge, among other non-sensible ones.

[Selatius]

8. I jump around the boards, so I miss out on a lot of things

The several topics I've seen had to do with Lieberman potentially going independent. I've read a lot of replies in those threads and even responded to some, but I haven't read them all. I can't claim to have seen everything that has happened with respect to Lieberman on this board.

[Behind the Aegis]

11. Search

You have a donor star so you can use the search feature and quickly realize that what the OP was saying is far from a 'strawman.' To a general search (all forums), type in "Lieberman," then pop into threads and use "ctrl + F" (the find function with PCs) and use the word "Zell." I never got through the first page of the DU search and found around 40 comparisons of Lieberman to Zell Miller, and they weren't all by the same poster (there were two repeats as I recall).

[MADem]

2. Truthes, eh? Sorta like truthiness? NT

[ixion]

3. I agree with 8

the others, not so much. ;-)

[laruemtt]

5. Re: #2

if some elections are being stolen, ignoring that fact will help us exactly how?

[sendero]

6. Ok...

...

1) ok
2) ok
3) says who?
4) bullshit
5) fair enough, but not good enough
6) ok, but there are degrees
7) maybe
8) ok

[tkmorris]

7. Oh, YOU wake up.

1. The DLC has no real power.

The hell you say. The DLC has all the big corporate and PAC groups that historically donate to Dems in their pocket. If the DLC says no, you are gonna have a hard time of it. Not impossible, but to say they are toothless is just plain wrong.

2. Saying that every election we lose is stolen is defeatist and ignores the real issues because if we CAN'T win, we shouldn't even be trying.

Strawman. No one said every lost election is stolen. They aren't. But some ARE and some is too damned many.

3. George W. Bush will never get impeached.

I don't care. Actually it IS possible, but I rather hope he doesn't due to the martyr effect.

4. Joe Lieberman is better than any Republican

Really? Maybe, but it's kinda hard to tell when it comes the the few real Repubs that are left. That isn't the point anyway, almost evry Dem is better than he is and he doesn't have the excuse of living in Nebraska. We can do better.

5. Joe Lieberman is no Zell Miller.

And so? Bush aint Hitler either, but he's still an asshole.

6. There are no ideologically pure Democrats.

No one ever said there was. They are ALL shades of grey. Some are pretty close to bright white though, while a few are so sooty they may as well be chimneysweeps. Lieberman falls squarely into this category, as does Nelson (FL). I'll excuse Nelson (NE), getting elected as a Dem in Nebraska has just GOT to be a bitch.

7. The Democratic party is a coalition.

Of course it is. What's your point? Oh, that Neo-con enablers should be included. I don't fucking think so. It's a big tent but I am retracting the bloody awning.

8. Candy Crowley is just horrendously ugly.

Sounds like something a Repub would say. I assume you refer to her physical appearance. So what? I'm ugly too, by that standard. Then again, Crowley IS actually ugly but that ugly is something that seeps out from her soul and poisons everything she says. Maybe on this one we can agree.

[Selatius]

9. The DLC is discredited in the eyes of many rank-and-file Dems

People are tired of losing again and again after following the DLC way throughout the 1990s. It didn't get the Party anywhere. Consecutive election defeats have left people burned. The DLC may have a lot of corporate donors, but it sure as shit won't draw voters, and you need votes to win.

[UDenver20]

10. hahaha..... We Agree!

Damn good points, too.

Like the objectivity....

[mr715]

13. well

I am an objectivist

[MGD]

12. Wake up? WTF? Is it time to go to work already?

Ohhh, it was a metaphor. OK, good.


1. The DLC has no real power.

Republicans in Texas have completely shut the Democrats out of the decision making processes. I think it's much the same nationally but we are better represented nationally than we are in Texas and certain other red ass fucking states so it isn't quite as bad. We can still make trouble collectively though I think.

2. Saying that every election we lose is stolen is defeatist and ignores the real issues because if we CAN'T win, we shouldn't even be trying.

There hasn't been a corruption free Presidential election since... ever. The same thing is true of many lesser elections. American politics is dirty; it's motto should be: "if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying hard enough."

3. George W. Bush will never get impeached.

I rarely say never and infrequently say always. His ass becomes vulnerable come November. We shouldn't focus on impeaching him anyways though. We should focus on fair and 100% impartial and unbiased investigations into our various grievances against his administration first and foremost and then impeach him if these impartial bodies can prove that high crimes and misdemeanors have been committed. If we get the power, we need to be above revenge and be focused on truth and justice and the American way. We should be that way regardless.

4. Joe Lieberman is better than any Republican
I'm sure he's just responding to his constituency which should say something about the diverse views inherent to our party.

6. There are no ideologically pure Democrats.

I think in all of our hearts is a unified/unifying desire to oppose certain elements/aspects of the right wing - a unified opposition to their various fascist inclinations perhaps? I think, in this regards, we are all pure, are we not?

5. Joe Lieberman is no Zell Miller.
Joe is a weasel. Zell is a a rat. They're closely related in a sense of course but they aren't the same at all.

7. The Democratic party is a coalition.
What do you expect in a permanently two party system?

8. Candy Crowley is just horrendously ugly.
Beautiful people tend to piss me off. I'll just leave it at that.