How can we make the '00, '04 stolen elections a defining issue in 2008?

[iconoclastNYC]

What good is it to work our asses off for our candidate if that candidate just turns around and does what Kerry did in 2004 and just concede and run away from a fight?

How can we push this issue? Is there any hope that we can get the candidates on record on the weird results in 2000 and 2004?

Are there any comprehensive election reform bills that we can litmus test candidates on?

To me this is the biggest issue for 2008. I will not vote for any candidate who has his/her head in the sand on this issue.

So how can we push this into the primary-contest zeitgeist?

[BOSSHOG]

1. Well lets just make a big bang

Why don't WE steal the election in 2008 and see how THEY like it. As you well know, that would certainly spawn all kinds of election "reform."

[Jawja]

5. Exactly. The GOP

will continue to protect the system of electronic voting machines with no transparency and no paper trail as long as it benefits them.

This will remain in place until Democrats manage to use the same system to steal elections from them.

Only then will there be election reform regarding the machines.

[BOSSHOG]

8. I find error with my logic

If all the votes were counted we'd have no need to steal anything.

[Jackpine Radical]

11. Another problem with your original approach...

It would be like expecting the labor unions of 1890 to hire goons to take on the industrialists. They just didn't have the resources.

These days, in order to steal an election you have to own all the relevant apparatus--the voting machine companies, the media, etc. in order to bring it off. We don't, and all that stuff is a little beyond our price range.

[Jawja]

15. So then the next

option is raid the voting booth and smash the machines with sledge hammers. It might come to that in order to get the message across.

[Jackpine Radical]

19. Well--maybe, as long as you're the one with the sledgehammer.

I carry bulletholes from Vietnam (67-68) and the memory of a police baton (Madison '69), and in my decadent old age I find the prospect of more violent confrontation pretty unattractive.

[Jawja]

26. Well that's last resort!

I'm not inclined to carry a sledgehammer, either. My knees wouldn't stand up to it! :hi:

But if election fraud cannot be resolved peacefully through our local, state and federal governments, the only option may be violence and I can't think of a better way to get the message across than taking a hammer to the machines.

What I'm saying with the sledgehammer metaphor is that revolt may will be the only recourse in the end. Hope it doesn't come to that. :nuke:

Thank you for your service and for your courage in both 'Nam and Madison. :hug:

[iconoclastNYC]

22. Do it in Republican districts please.

:)

[bobbolink]

6. Exactamundo! Hackers announce they will throw the election

to the Dems.

Oh, say, about a week before the election.

:evilgrin:

[iconoclastNYC]

9. The media will have a field day with that

What I think you need to do is help the Republican cheat even more. Have about 400 precincts with more Republican votes than voters. Fuck up the election real good in a way that makes it looks like Republicans did it so it doesn't blow back at us.

Then get Moveon, DFA, PDA, and the DNC to blast emails out calling for massive demonostrations and a general strike and economic blockade.

[bobbolink]

10. Media fielddays.... what else is new?

With all due respect--- you're certainly entitled to your opinion, and we all need to listen to each other.

However, some of us are really at the end of our tether with trying to "take the high road" and "wear the white hats", and then continue losing. *THAT'S* exactly what the RW wants us to keep doing.

Granted it has to be done very carefully, but we finally have to show that we will stand up to bullies. Lesson learned on many grade school playgrounds.

While I earnestly wish that being squeaky clean would work, it hasn't so far, and I don't see any "massive demonstrations" happening. We're all too fat and happy to pull that off. We have to start thinking in different ways.

I'm not willing to sacrifice one more election -- my survival, and thousands of others, depends on taking a stronger approach, and not sacrificing!

[longship]

2. How do we make it an issue in 2006!?

This year may be much more important than 2008. If Dems do not take back at least one house of Congress this year, it may be too late for 2008.

Two years is a long time politically. The damage that ChimpCo can do in that time is too horrible to consider. What if we lose another Supreme between now and then and Dems do not have a majority?

[iconoclastNYC]

7. I don't know that you can do that in 2006.

Are you going to ask 425 House candidates and 33 senate candidates how they think?

It's easier to ask 5-10 presidential candidates. If even one of them makes it an issue then it will creep into the Zeitgeist.

[longship]

17. You are, of course, correct.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to keep an optimistic outlook. I am very worried that things are not going to go very well for us in November. We very well may be totally fucked long before November, 2008 arrives.

I know, I know. Keep things on the positive.
I'll keep trying to do that.

[rainy]

3. Hire some hacks to hack the machines wildly making a mock of

the entire process. The machines should render a hilarious outcome like a corporation winning and people losing.

[MissWaverly]

4. that's just what they want

Why do you think Bev Harris is releasing hack a vote tips, what we need is to stay honest,
and have a candidate to put pressure for a recount like Obrador is, and we need to support
our candidate if this happens

[Greyhound]

24. They would immediately declare martial law and suspend elections

indefinitely.

[SaveElmer]

12. Media will ignore it...unless Gore were the nominee again...

Other than that I am afraid it won't get any traction.

[iconoclastNYC]

21. Why only Gore?

You don't think Edwards or Clarke could make this an issue? What about Feingold?

[SaveElmer]

23. Well because Gore was the victim of the first fraud...

So it would auomatically be a major part of the story.

[iconoclastNYC]

25. I agree that he'd be the best person to spearhead it

But I think that any Democrat can talk about this issue, indeed they must.

[BeFree]

13. Election Reform bill

HR 550 is in front of congress now. Too late for 06, and Dems say it hasn't a chance this year - we get a Dem house and it'll sail on thru.

The best thing a citizen can do is work on local candidates and influence local boards of elections. Ask for paper ballots. Demand transparency. Demand audits and recounts.

Demand that local elections be trustworthy. Make sure candidates know you will back them up if they do not concede the next day, and concede only after the numbers are accounted for.

[Minnesota Libra]

14. There is one definite way to make sure at least...........

.....one person stands up and fights on through whatever odds. That is for anyone who disagrees with how Kerry handled things to rum for office themselves and do things their way.:patriot:

That's the only way to get it done.:patriot:

Keep in mind that such a person would get no support from those right of the middle on the political scale. Those who tend to be in the middle are really iffy and depends on a variety of issues, but a candidate would have to do some serious courting for that vote. That leaves those left of the middle on the political scale and as we all know Liberals aren't exactly a lock-step bunch. So a candidate will indeed get some support left of the middle but there will also be those "hell no I won't vote for that candidate because of.........." I wonder how much definite support that leaves any candidate with?? Of course we haven't even gotten around to the issue of voting machines yet, which will definitely figure in to this mess. A lot of if's there and plenty of room for 20/20 hind-sight.

[RangerSmith]

16. If this is the big

issue...

You'll be guaranteeing a loss.

We have to win with ideas, not excuses that most everybody but about 15% of the die-hard Dems have moved on from.

[marions ghost]

18. right.....

:eyes:

You can push all the ideas you want, but when push comes to shove, it's the ballots that count.

If they want to, they can steal it again.

[McCamy Taylor]

20. Get Countdown to do even ONE story about it. Please.