The Greatest Reason Why I Want H. Clinton President

[mr715]

You judge a person by the enemies they have.

I want Hillary Clinton to be President (and she is not running) solely to make the Republican party shit themselves.

Thats it.

And I love Hillary, she is my Senator and has done more for New York in one term than I could have hoped. She is a damn fine gem and one that deserves our praise. Its too bad she has a bad name around here.



Hillary Clinton / Theresa Heinz-Kerry 2008
More balls than everyone else in politics.

[IndianaGreen]

1. "You judge a person by the enemies they have."

Hmmmm.... Bush and Hillary!

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. The main reason I don't want her to run

The right is promoting her candidacy.

Then there is her stance on the war.

[mr715]

5. Are they?

I mean shes the obvious person to run. Shes the NAME. Its not the right thats promoting it, its rational people.

Is she my top choice (including the likelihood of her victory)? No. BUUUUT I still WANT her to win. Cauase she rocks.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mr715]

22. What?

Yer condescention aside,

she is a big name, big money, big state, and big ambition. shes the rational choice to expect to run.

Who would YOU expect to run if yer in the media? Evan Bayd who no one knows about, Dennis Kucinich who no one cares about, or Al Gore who isnt gonna run?


Sheesh.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. So which rational people are promoting her candidacy?

Do tell.

And Gore will be running.

[mr715]

27. Me.

Im saying shes the RATIONAL choice. If the media were gonna say someones gonna run, its her.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. You said

"Its not the right thats promoting it, its rational people."

[mr715]

34. Yeah

The Hillary drumbeat is rational. Shes the one who ya should bet on running. Thats why the media is talkin' their talk.

Promotion is the wrong word. What you say is promotion I mean to be reporting. I dont know much about the rights line, but as far as I can tell, anyone who talks about Hillary running is being reasonable, not right wing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

40. The ONLY people I hear promoting her candidacy

are right wingers.

[mr715]

43. THE ONLY PEOPLE

I hear promoting her candidacy is the media.

And its not a right wing / left wing thing. Its a rational thing.

Who do YOU expect the media to promote?

[proud2BlibKansan]

44. You must not visit any RW blog sites

They can't wait for Hillary to run.

[The Magistrate]

48. Are You Seriously Alleging, Ma'am

That anyone who supports Sen. Clinton for President is a rightist?

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. No I am just saying that she has a lot of support from RWers

[The Magistrate]

58. You, Ma'am, Are Going To Have To Produce Some Names

Of prominent right wing figures who have stated they are supporting Sen. Clinton for President in order to back up that statement.

Otherwise, it can only be regarded as an exercise in comedy.

And one or two fund-raising events will fall short of satisfying the need of real proof....

[mtnsnake]

66. You sure do know a lot about the right wing, eh?

Good gawd, all you do when it comes to Hillary is try and equate her with the right wing in your weird little way.

FYI, the right wing is scared shitless of her and with good reason: Hillary Clinton stands for everything that the right wing neocons are against. BTW, she is not the war monger that you and numerous others on this board make her out to be. Not in the least.

[Jai4WKC08]

92. proud2Blib is right, and it's not equating HRC with the right wing

I may not agree with her on everything, but I respect her, and know she's a very good Democrat and overall very progressive. I'd would LOVE to have her as my senator.

But it's just a fact that the GOP establishment desperately wants Clinton to run and win the Dem nomination because they believe she will be the easiest Dem to beat. They also know that rank & file Repubs despise and fear her enough to open their wallets wide at the mere suggestion she might win the presidency some day.

I think it's pretty naive to believe that the corporate media isn't doing the GOP's bidding when they push "Hillary 08" as a done deal.

[mtnsnake]

94. Oh c'mon. You can't prove "it's just a fact that the GOP establishment

desperately wants Clinton to run and win the Dem nomination because they believe she will be the easiest Dem to beat". Good gawd, if anyone could prove that, then what would be the sense in even having a primary.

[The Magistrate]

96. That, Ma'am, Is Hugely Different

From the claim advanced that right wingers support Sen. Clinton for President, and certainly provides no warrant for greeting persons who support her for President on Democratic Underground with accusations, veiled or otherwise, that they are rightists because they support her for President.

Whether those calculations of rightist strategists are sound or not remains to be seen: Democratic strategists early in 1980 often expressed glee at the prospect of Ronald Reagan winning the Republican nomination for President....

[Jai4WKC08]

124. Not supporting her for president

"Supporting her candidacy" is the phrase proud2Blib used. He/she probably overstepped by saying "the only ones" supporting her candidacy are on the right... altho to be honest, I've never met anyone from the left in person who supports her. Obviously they must exist and in significant numbers.

I don't think there's any doubt that the GOP wants her to win the nomination. Can I prove it? Of course not, but that wouldn't mean it isn't true. That said, I agree with you that the Repubs may be making a big mistake. She may be able to pull off a win. I personally don't think so, but I could be wrong. I didn't think Kerry could beat Bush and he did much better than I ever thought he would, if not good enough. I hope I don't get a chance to find out with Clinton.

[proud2BlibKansan]

137. Thank you

My exact words: "The ONLY people I hear promoting her candidacy are right wingers."

Doesn't say anything about her presidency. Also notice the words I bolded.

Time for reading comprehension classes I guess. LOL

[proud2BlibKansan]

101. Thank you

I am glad to see you understand what I am trying to point out here.

[pnwmom]

52. Maybe you're living in the wrong neighborhood then.

You might need a better class of friends.

[proud2BlibKansan]

120. LOL Who said they are my friends?

Don't you ever read RW blogs? Or watch Fox News? They are promoting Hillary's candidacy.

[robcon]

74. I have been pronmoting her candidacy on DU.

She will be our next president.

I resent that you believe Democrats don't like Hillary.

[proud2BlibKansan]

121. I am a Democrat -

a very involved and active in the party Democrat. And I don't know ANY who like her as a presidential candidate.

[BigYawn]

83. I think he means the media is more rational than the DUer's.

[Clark2008]

107. Yea and Lieberman was the front runner this time last election

cycle.

[mr715]

110. No way

John Kerry was the front runner from the start.

[still_one]

3. she can't win

[mr715]

4. I dont know

I suspect she is not running because it'd be a tough race, but I'd love to see her WIN.

[still_one]

25. I suspect she won't run either

[mtnsnake]

67. If she can't win then who can at this point? Give me a name.

Look, I'd be happy if we had some announced candidate who we all thought could win, but we don't, so until someone else comes along who takes us all by surprise, you should be counting your lucky stars that we have her as one of our potential candidates. Right now our field of candidates is nothing to write home about. For the time being, Hillary Clinton stands as good or better a chance of winning as any of them.

[still_one]

76. 2006 is the only thing that really matters

everything else will be irrlevent if we don't take back one of the houses

2008 is a long way off, and as far as your indicating that our field of candidates was nothing to write home about, when did Hillary announce? As far as I know Biden is the only one who announced

[BigYawn]

84. Raising campaign war chest is louder than any "formal" announcement

[proud2BlibKansan]

138. Al Gore

His chances are lots better than Hillary's, IMO.

[wisteria]

6. I think we should choose a President more for what they can do

for our country than what they would do to the Republican party. Besides, i am tired of the Republicans childish ways of smearing,lying, whining and blaming others for their mistakes.

[CoffeeCat]

7. I respect your views...

...and I sincerely appreciate that you value her as a senator. I think that's great that you admire her so much--and that she represents you. I love one of my senators too (Tom Harkin) and I understand how valuable that is.

I think Hillary should stay being a senator. I think she represents the state well. I also think she could accomplish great things for the state.

However, I will NEVER support her presidential candidacy. Ever. I know my opinion is contrary to what you believe, and that's ok. I feel that Hillary has been too silent, for too long on very serious subjects. Our Democracy is at stake and the Constitution is being used as tp by this administration. Hillary rarely criticizes Junior and the neocons.

I don't hate Hillary. I just don't agree with how she has evolved as a politician. We need someone who will stand up to the neocons and take tough stances. We need Gore or Feingold.

I rarely meet any Dem who wants Hillary. I'm always mystified by the media's obsession with her.

[mr715]

9. She gets a bum rap

Shes one of those unfortunant characters that is perceived as an archliberal and is in fact a left-center politician.

As for her silence, shes a junior senator. Shes been a workhorse in the senate, but yeah, she should be more outspoken on issues that matter to her. I think she is legit and learning the ropes and not using her name to get on TV. I dont know, call me idealistic.

But yeah, she does good for NY and NYC and fights hard for us. It pains me when people tear her apart because shes not "ideologically pure".


Like I said, I want her to be a Senator. Ideally, Majority Leader. Or a Supreme Court Justice. BUT if she was President, it would be wonderful to see the GOP collectively go apoplectic

[salvorhardin]

13. I'd say she's even center-right

on a lot of issues. Overall though I do think she's been positive for NY. Certainly a lot more than old Al D'amato.

[mr715]

16. No

Shes not center right.

I cant think of an issue shes center right on.

Shes center or center left on almost all issues and left on a few.

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. What?

She's far right on the war.

She's far right on censorship.

She's far right on flag burning.

What is she left on?

[mr715]

28. Ahem

Shes with the majority of her fellow democratic Senators on the war.

The war is nominally right, but shes certainly not far right. And shes not FOR the war, shes for the rational completion of the mess we started.

Shes NOT far right on censorship. Shes center.

Shes NOT far right on flag burning. When the chips were down, she voted the right way.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. She is most definitely pro-war

She is one of the few senators who refused to meet with Cindy Sheehan. (FYI, that's when she completely lost me, and I was a HUGE fan for many years)

And she is as far to the right as she can be on censorship.

Hillary is as bad as Joe Lieberman. She's a DINO.

[BigYawn]

85. Roosevelt, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson were ALL pro-war...what is

wrong with being pro-war for liberation of a country from
horrible dictators such as Hitler, Mao-tse-tung, Saddam Hussein,
etc who murdered millions of civilians?

[proud2BlibKansan]

104. They are all dead now and were in favor of completely different wars

This is an invasion and an occupation and it MUST come to an end. That is the #1 issue for me.

[BigYawn]

106. So you have no sympathy for the half a million murdered and tortured

by Hussein in Iraq, and without a doubt would have continued
torture, rape and murder of any one HE PERCEIVED as being on
the opposite side? Common proud2Blib, you must have more
kindness and humanity in your heart than that.

Iraq is almost a finished product anyways when you look at the
recently agreed upon compromise cabinet, & the very high percentage
of people who turned out to vote (much higher than in Ohio) inspite
of the threats of bombs and bullets by the insurgents.

So in retrospect Hillary was exactly right in voting for IWR. If
Iraq is much more peaceful in November 2008, Hillary will shine like
a true visionary that she is.

[proud2BlibKansan]

115. Why was it our job to oust Sadaam?

Why was it our responsibility to bring down his evil regime? And since we invaded Iraq and got rid of Sadaam, what country is next? Korea? Cuba? Saudi Arabia? (they have public executions there and surely the kindness in your heart tells you that is an evil practice).

Where does it stop?

Why do we send our resources overseas to solve other countries' problems while ignoring the needs of American citizens? Do you think it is okay to allow our children to go without health care, to allow our kids to be hungry? Is it okay to take money away from education in the US? Was the failure to respond to Katrina okay with you?

Just imagine what we could be doing right here at home with the $300 billion we have spent in Iraq.

Iraq is far from a finished product. It won't be finished in our lifetime. The fighting in the middle east has been ongoing for centuries and we have only added to it. We haven't done a thing to stop it. We have also killed tens of thousands of innocent Iraqi citizens. And our invasion has created terrorist networks in Iraq.

Hillary is a 'visionary' in a peer group with the PNAC bunch from the far right wing. That is hardly something anyone who supports her should be bragging about. When she fails to get the nomination in 2008, her stance on this invasion of Iraq will be the reason why.

[BigYawn]

122. Why was it our job to kill Hitler? We had over million casualties in that

war. Hitler never attacked United States. If you can tell me
that it was NOT our job to kill Hitler, then we can discuss Iraq.

[proud2BlibKansan]

123. You absolutely can NOT compare this invasion to WWII

Nice rw talking point, BTW. Sheesh. Quit listening to Rush. Try Randy instead. http://www.therandirhodesshow.com/live/

[BigYawn]

127. There are so many similarities between Hitler's Germany & Saddam's

Iraq. Hitler attacked neighboring countries without provocation
and occupied them. Saddam attacked Kuwait and occupied it.
Hitler kept arming Germany. Saddam kept deveoping WMD's and
actualloy used them. Hitler wanted to be the king of third reich
and control an empire consisting of all neighboring countries.
Saddam wanted exactly the same thing. Hitler hated jews. Saddam
rewarded suicide bombers families (in Israel)with $25,000 checks,
clearly a sign of anti-semitism. Hitler had gas chambers and
murdered 6 million jews and other minorities. Saddam had torture
houses where civilians were tortured, raped and murdered.

My dear friend, proud2blib, these are no RW talking points. These
are all historical facts, well documented and well known. Please
do not succumb to attacking others as RW talking points when you
can not defend your argument.

[proud2BlibKansan]

129. So you get to say the same things that Rush says and the same things that

I hear other RW pundits say, yet it is WRONG to call them RW talking points?

:wtf:

[BigYawn]

130. I rarely if ever listen to Rush Limbaugh, so I have no idea what he has

said. I am here to simply state the truth and historical facts.

And therefore I will not hold Hillary's IWR vote against her. She
will be exonerated by historians.

[proud2BlibKansan]

131. So are you psychic

or making a wild prediction?

Besides, her future exoneration is not enough to get her elected.

[lonestarnot]

126. WTF? Oh yeah try that bullshit here. RW Talking point.

If you don't fucking agree with the war, then you must be an evil cockroach who wants to see innocent people murdered, maimed, fucked, and hung on the fence fucking post! Bushitler and you would make quite the pair. He's the serial killer and your the enabler with your polly parrot rhetoric. Or is this just a game of what's my fucking dumbass line? Bushitler polly parrot? Is that it? Ding ding ding! Weeeeeeener! Whooodamnwhoo! I won something once and it was fun!

[mtnsnake]

68. You need to do some homework. Hillary is 1 of the most progressive

senators in Congress, so stop with the far right crap.

[proud2BlibKansan]

139. What is she left on?

Please answer the question rather than telling me to stop what I am saying.

[mtnsnake]

141. If you have to ask that then you really DO need to do some homework. Here:

This will help you for starters:
http://www.progressivepunch.org/members.jsp?member=HI1&search=selectScore&chamber=Senate&zip=
Check out the different issues she's voted on and NOT just the IWR that you love to single her out for.

[proud2BlibKansan]

143. Sorry the war is my #1 issue

And yes, it is important enough of an issue for Hillary to lose my support.

2500+ dead US military
100,000 dead Iraqis
$300+ billion

It is a pretty big issue. :)

[mtnsnake]

145. That it is

:)

[pnwmom]

53. Her OVERALL record is more progressive than 90 other Senators,

according to ProgressivePunch.com

www.progressivepunch.com

[salvorhardin]

55. Mind you, I didn't say I didn't like her

I do. And compared to Al D'Amato she's as progressive as Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future. Maybe my perception is colored by the fact that I'm generally far left in my views relative to everyone else and that as an atheist I'm sincerely bothered by what I perceive as her not speaking strongly enough in favor of secularism. Those are my perceptions though and I'm certainly going to pull the lever for her again. Personally I think the whole left-right dichotomy is about as useful or relevant today as the pre-revolution French aristocracy.

[pnwmom]

61. I actually agree with your last sentence

"Personally I think the whole left-right dichotomy is about as useful or relevant today as the pre-revolution French aristocracy."

But people here so often complain about Hillary not being progressive enough. I want a progressive candidate, too, but most of all I want a winner.

I don't know whether she can do it or not. But if she fails, IMO it WON'T be because she's too conservative. It will be because too many people even today aren't ready for a woman candidate for President -- at least one who isn't ingratiatingly "ladylike."

[salvorhardin]

62. Oh, I've no doubt

And I'm pretty sure she's been saying and doing stuff lately that hard lefties dislike because it broadens her appeal politically and helps defuse some of the tired old right wing talking points and disinfo about her.

Even if I don't like everything she says or does (i.e she's not perfect) I'd love to have her as President. I'd like to believe that finally in the first decade of the 21st C. we could have a woman President, but I too have doubts about whether or not the country is ready for that. I wish they were, but...

[CoffeeCat]

19. Some points...

She does get a bum rap from people who misunderstand her politics. However, it's not the Dems who
misunderstand her politics. We understand VERY WELL that she is a centrist. She is not a liberal. It's the Republicans who paint her as an "archliberal", as you said.

The problems that will keep her from a successful presidential candidacy---stem from her lack of voice on highly critical issues facing this nation. We are losing our civil rights. WE are being spied on. Our national debt is unparalleled. This nation is run by a man who wants more power than ANY president and he lied us into a war that is bankrupting us and killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people.

Hillary will not take a stand against Bush and this war. That is my big problem with her. I have opinions on her lack of opinions. I'm not giving her a "bum rap." I am disappointed in her lack of leadership.

Yes, she is a junior senator. However, she has an obligation to stand up and fight for Americans and for the ideals of the Democratic party. If a junior senator can contemplate a run for the White House, then that same junior senator should be able to stand up and fight Fascism, right?!

I don't think that most on DU dislike her because she is not "ideologically pure." I simply want a leader who will fight for us and slay the dragons! I do not know Hillary's views on most of Junior's bungles. She's been silent on so many things! I find that deeply troubling.

I hear a lot from Conyers, Feingold, Kerry, Pelosi and Ted Kennedy. I hear more from Cindy Sheehan than I do from Hillary. That's my problem with her. She's practically silent when the ship is sinking...and that is bizarre to me. I could not vote for someone who is not openly outraged during this perilous time in our nation's history.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. The main reason I DON'T want her to win is because that would mean

that the last 24 years of American politics were dominated by two political dynasties. I want the next president to have a name OTHER than Bush or Clinton.

[CoffeeCat]

11. Also, the Clintons and Bushes are a bit too...

...close for my liking.

The Clintons and the Bushes socialize together. I find that just a bit odd. It smacks of corruption and the notion that we really have a one-party system run by power brokers on each side who manufacture distinctions between the Dems and Reps that really don't exist.

I mean...my God. We are slipping into Fascism people. Our nation is in peril! You cannot socialize and fund raise with the evil, neocon slime who are perpetrating this terror on our country--and expect to be taken seriously as a Democrat.

Hillary STILL refuses to go on record and state that her vote for the Iraq war was a mistake. Kerry did, and so have other Dems. She could easily make a kick-ass statement against the war and explain her vote, "I trusted this president and he lied. He took advantage of me and of all of you! Of course I regret my vote, because this president has showed that he is untrustworthy and incompetent. If I could take my vote back I would, because I had no idea this country was being run by such a bungling, dishonest, amoral administration."

She won't say that. She won't take a stand against Junior and the rest of the neocon gang.

Something is rotten in Denmark. I really don't care what it is and it doesn't matter. What matters is that we need someone who is not tied to the corruption in Washington. Someone who will not kow tow to Fascist thugs. Someone who will stand up and shout from the rafters about this SICK administration.

Hillary Clinton may be a decent woman and a good politician. She has her good points and she's done some good things as a Senator and as a First Lady. However, she is not the person that this country needs right now to end this disgusting, Fascist assault on "we the people."

[BigYawn]

142. Calm down, the country is doing quite well...thank you

What is going well?

>>Bush's ratings are in the toilet, has to help in 2006
>>More people have jobs today than any other time in history
>>Americans recorded the highest income ever in hitory in 2005
(refer to US Treasury web site)
>>Record no. of inter-racial marriages in 2005, speaks well of
race relations.
>>Abortion is legal and widely available.
>>No country in the world is stronger than us or can threaten us.

Well, there are a few things not going so well...
>>Iraq continues to drain blood and treasure
>>We have to put up with Bush until January 2009.

[pnwmom]

63. Oh yeah? Like McCain?

[NYCGirl]

78. No, like Gore or Feingold or Clark or about a dozen other names.

Hillary is not the only one in the Democratic field, you know.

[pnwmom]

86. Sorry. It was a joke.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

79. No. Unlike many here, I am a Democrat.

[Sooner75]

97. This is an excellent point.

Our democratic processes already seem to be unreliable. Let's not regress into feudalism (anymore than we already have).

[AJH032]

105. Howabout Rodham?

To be fair, she's a Clinton through marriage (she only changed her last name to help her husband's gubernatorial campaign). I think it kind of odd for women to change their last names anyway...

[BigYawn]

108. Thank G DU is not picking the nominee in 2008 cuz Hillary would lose

by landslide judging by posts here. But democrats all over the
country like Hillary and that is why she leads all polls.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

117. Wow! I am amazed at the responses I got.

If people can't see that by having TWO families control the WH for nearly three decades we are creating a de facto monarchy then there's really nothing else to say.

[IndianaGreen]

119. Enough of the Bushes and Clintons!

Published on Wednesday, May 3, 2006 by CommonDreams.org
I'm Tired of Bushes and Clintons
by Jeff Cohen

Every presidential election since 1980 has had a Bush or a Clinton on a major party ticket. And the pundits say we're likely to see a Clinton atop the next Democratic ticket.

Unlike the last seven presidential elections, I dream of a 2008 contest that is Bush- and Clinton-free. Our country needs new leadership and fresh ideas beyond the realm of just two families.

Of course, influential political families are as old as the Republic. Our nation's first vice president and second president was an Adams; his son was our sixth president. A Republican Roosevelt dominated U.S. politics at the turn of the 20th century; a Democratic Roosevelt, his distant cousin, was even more dominant decades later (joined by our country's greatest first lady, a Roosevelt by birth as well as marriage, who toiled for human rights for years thereafter.) Then came the '60s and the brothers Kennedy...but both John and Robert were killed before the age of 47.

Those earlier eras were marked by hope or social progress. By contrast, the Bush-Clinton era is marked in many respects by political regress and decline. And as major national problems fester, neither Team Bush nor Team Clinton are willing to seriously address them.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not in any way equating the Clintonites with the extremists in today's White House. No one comes close to Bush recklessness and fecklessness. But I believe that until we sweep away the Bush-Clinton era and transcend narrow Bush-Clinton debates (and non-debates), we won't be able to put our country back on the road to social progress.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0503-31.htm

[zulchzulu]

10. Someone I know who was huge Hillary supporter now wants someone else

He's very involved in politics in Little Rock, Arkansas and was a great supporter for Hillary in 2008. After I and others talked to him (including Repug friends foaming at the mouth to want Hillary as the nominee), he has seen the light and readily admits he was wrong to think she could EVER win in 2008.

Hillary would be the biggest mobilizer for Repugs to get out the vote. They'll probably steal 2008 again, but this would make it a lot easier for them to "win".

[IndianaGreen]

37. Hillary will mobilize the Right (who cares?) and the Left (beware!)

against her. Among the antiwar and anti-globalist Left, Hillary is as popular as Bush or Lieberman. Her nomination would be as polarizing as Hubert Humphrey's candidacy in 1968.

[Mythsaje]

12. While Hillary worries about Grand Theft Auto

I worry about Grand Theft America.

'nuff said.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Great point!

[Mythsaje]

36. I think worrying about a goddam VIDEO GAME in this

political environment is just irresponsible.

My dad likes her a heck of a lot more than I do.

Then again, I'm a bit more politically aware than he is.

If she wins the nomination, I'll vote for her. But I'm not going to like it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. I am not sure I could vote for her

I may have to abstain if she is on the ballot.

[mtnsnake]

69. No wonder we lose. When you can't support whomever wins the dem primary

that's pretty sad. I don't care if my worst nightmare wins the Democratic Primary, he or she will have my full support and I'll love that candidate to the end of it.

Maybe you should think about adopting Hillary's position on the Connecticut primary, where she was the first one to say she'd support which ever Democrat wins the primary in that state.

[proud2BlibKansan]

102. It's the war

She is going to have to come out against it and promote bringing our troops home to win my support.

[pnwmom]

89. Then John and Jeb will appreciate you very much.

But the rest of us won't.

[proud2BlibKansan]

103. Well unlike the right,

I don't vote against my own best interests.

[pnwmom]

112. No, but you might fail to vote . . .

and thus, act against your best interests

[Mythsaje]

32. self delete

I keep replying to myself.

[Sam Odom]

14. One question and one question only

which 2004 red state would HRC convert to blue?

[mr715]

15. Florida

[Sam Odom]

17. whatever you're smokin

i want some of it... :toast:

[CoffeeCat]

26. There's absolutely no way...

Look, I do respect that you like HRC and I'm sure she's done things for
the state of NY that many of us don't know.

However, her Demographics are TERRIBLE.

Republicans HATE her with a passion. At least half of the Democratic party does not want her as a candidate. The majority of the Progressives in the Dem party feel the same way that the Republicans do, and they wouldn't support her if she was running against a ping-pong ball.

So, who is left to support Hillary?

You've got Independents. Some of them might vote for her, if other candidates were not appealing.

However, there's also the issue of her baggage. We all know that she's the media's darling candidate because the Republicans cannot wait to run against her. They are salivating for a Hillary run! Remember all of the scandals with her name on them...Travelgate...Vince Foster...Whitewater...etc. They will have a field day!! They'll resurrect Monica, the blue dress and the humiliation that Hillary endured, and the entire moral/family values card will be played to the hilt. Republicans are chomping at the bit--for a Hillary run. It would be a mess.

There are plenty of appealing Dem candidates who do not have such a scandalous, explosive history. Gore, Feingold, Edwards, Clark come to mind.

[Digit]

31. The main thing I hold against her, is that she cannot win

Not a snowball's chance in hell.
Maybe later, beyond 2008, I dunno.

[BigYawn]

Exactly what Rush Limbaugh said when Hillary ran for senate.

[Digit]

114. I don't give a hang what Rush says or thinks

...and what does that have to do with it, anyway?

[BigYawn]

118. All I am trying to say is HILLARY IS A PROVEN WINNER

She ran for senate with no prior elected position whatsoever.
She was accused of being a carpetbagger in NY. Monica scandal
was fresh in the news. Still Hillary won by her talent and skills
as a smooth campaigner and debate performer.

Bush is very unpopular right now, and Hillary has an excellent chance
of winning in 2008. Her nomination is almost guaranteed on the dem ticket
with the whole Clinton political machine working overtime, and her name
recognition over all other potential candidates.

[AlGore-08.com]

147. Her victory in NY in 2000 was far from impressive

In 2000, she won by 55%, but Gore won the state by 60%.

In 2004, Kerry won New York with 58% and Schumer won re-election witn 70%.

[SOS]

Florida?

"In the Quinnipiac University poll's previously reported trial heats in Florida, perhaps the nation's most important swing state in a presidential election, Sen. Clinton has also trailed the equally well-known Sen. John McCain of Arizona and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani. In a May 24 survey, Sen. Clinton trailed McCain 48 - 42 percent, and Giuliani 49 - 42 percent."

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x12942.xml?ReleaseID=918

[karynnj]

24. I like your VP choice, but it would not be legal

Teresa was not born in the US.

[mr715]

29. Hey

I think it is loosely constitutional. The text says something like "May not be elected President". says nothing about VP or assuming that role due to a Prez's death.

[Mass]

71. It says that the VP has to fit the qualifications to be elected president.

[oasis]

33. Hillary is focused on the senate right now. Two years is time enough

for her to build momenetum within the party. And she'll have the team to do it.

Meanwhile, maintain your enthusiasm.:thumbsup:

[AtomicKitten]

39. You are a brave soul, mr715.

:)

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mr715]

42. Heh

You the executioner?



Haha


Keep 'em coming. I can take it.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[pnwmom]

54. What is that supposed to mean?

[boolean]

46. I don't get the Hillary hate either...

I think if Hillary were elected, Bill would pretty much be running the show anyway...;-)

[AtomicKitten]

49. Welcome to DU!!

I, for one, wouldn't mind Bubba back at the helm again.

[Sam Odom]

51. Yeah !!

It would be like Lurleen and George.

[oasis]

57. Welcome to DU boolean.

:hi:

[longship]

47. She is a crackerjack Senator.

In spite of what some DUers think. Her voting record is, with only an exception or two, clearly one to be proud of. But it's too early to be choosing a presidential candidate.

However, I sympathize with your sentiments. I'd really like to see the Repugs shit bricks with a Hillary presidency. However, that alone is not enough for me to support her. Not now, and likely not in 2008. That's just the wrong reason for choosing a candidate, no matter how fun it would be to watch the Repugs shit those bricks.

Instead, let things go until 2008. Then, look anew at the situation and choose a candidate who will be best for the USA instead of the candidate who is best for your scheidenfreude.

Thanks for listening.

[AtomicKitten]

50. I don't know.

I'd like to see Republicans shit bricks. :)

[Clarkie1]

59. Did you mean ovaries? nt

[Hippo_Tron]

60. The Republicans would've shat bricks over Kerry or Gore

And they shat bricks when Bill Clinton was elected. That's the way the Republican machine works. They teach their voters to passionately hate the Dem nominee (and their spouse) during the campaign and that hatred continues over if the Democrat should win the Presidency. Gore and Kerry are just as hated names as Hillary Clinton among Republicans because now they've both been through the smear machine. The difference is that Hillary Clinton started going through the smear machine over a decade ago when her husband was running for president.

[pnwmom]

64. You're right about that. They treated Clinton as a usurper of the

crown from the first day he was in office. Bush Sr. was the True Establishment King and Clinton was the crude upstart with the hillbilly relatives who had somehow managed to convince enough yahoos to vote for him.

And they spent the next 8 years trying to tear him down.

[Le Taz Hot]

65. "And she is not running?"

Considering that I'm getting fundraising letters from her (in California), you're either being naive or disingenuous. Yeah, you're credible. :eyes:

[mr715]

70. Look

Im in NY. I doubt she'll run for President.

Its too obvious a move for her. She'll have more power as a Senator than a Presidential candidate.

[mtnsnake]

72. Yeah, it IS too bad she has a bad name around here

especially considering how she's consistently been the toughest of all Democrats when it comes to standing up to right wing nonsense and hatred that's hurled at fellow Deomcrats.

When the right wing throws a stone at her or other Democrats, Hillary returns the favor, only with brick. Too bad most of our other Dems don't have the guts she has when it comes to smacking down the neocon right.

[mr715]

73. One of my favorite quotes

Paraphrasing: "Why do the Republicans seem to win all these debates?"


Hillary Clinton: "It is very difficult to have discussion with someone unacquainted with the truth."

[robcon]

75. She'll win with 75% of the vote in NY

She's s-s-s-scared off any known Republican.

She is a GREAT campaigner.

She'll be our next president.

[Solon]

87. And maybe 25% of the vote in the rest of the country...

sorry, she's unelectable, especially in swing states.

[Jai4WKC08]

88. Yeah, but only because the GOP wants her to

The Repubs have ceded NY, declining to run anyone competitive against her. They know that a big win for Clinton there will help her win the '08 nomination.

[MadHound]

77. She brought that bad name on herself

Sorry, but I don't support anybody who rubberstamps Bushco's permission slip to conduct an illegal, immoral war. I support them even less when their mistake has been exposed time and again, and they still continue their support for said illegal, immoral war.

Tens of thousands of deaths, and counting, yet she continues to play politics. Sorry, no thank you.

[pnwmom]

90. People didn't like her way before Iraq.

Lots of people have never been comfortable with her as a strong woman.

[MadHound]

93. Well, I can only speak for myself

I really didn't feel one way or the other about her, but she lost me completely when she became a hack for the hawks.

[Totally Committed]

80. I've said it before and I'll say it again:

HILLARY

CLINTON

IS

UNELECTABLE.

We nominate her at our own peril. The Republicans will sh*t themselves in glee that we fell for their plot to get her nominated.

Period.

TC

[El Fuego]

81. They want her to run MORE than Democrats do

The repugs are salivating over the prospect of having another Clinton to kick around again.

[leesa]

82. I wouldn't support her. She supports an illegal war and no political

tent is big enough for that. Put her in offic and it will be DLC business as usual Corporate profits and war forever. War runs our economy, but is that the price you want to pay.

[pnwmom]

91. What about the general? Would you prefer John McCain and Jeb?

[mtnsnake]

95. Bull. She doesn't "support" the illegal war

She supports the idea of not packing our bags and high tailing it out of the mess that Bush created in HIS illegal war. If you want to disagree with that part of her philosophy, fine, but she doesn't support ANY illegal war. Hillary has bashed Bush's policies in Iraq as much or more than any of the other high profile Democratic unannounced candidates.

It's unreal how so many around this forum try and make her look like some kind of a war monger, when the reality is that she'd like to see this rotten war end as much as anyone would, but she also want's to do it in a fashion that doesn't make things even worse for the Iraqi citizens, who just happen to be bearing the brunt of the majority of the suffering.

[proud2BlibKansan]

128. She voted FOR the war

and has continued to speak out IN FAVOR of it. Like many Republican lawmakers. Like Joe Liebermann.

That makes her a war monger in my book.

[mtnsnake]

132. Just like these Democratic senators did, too:

Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Breaux (D-LA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hollings (D-SC)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Miller (D-GA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Schumer (D-NY)
Torricelli (D-NJ)

and has continued to speak out IN FAVOR of it

Oh please. She might not be in favor of immediate withdrawal, but she hasn't been speaking in favor of this war or ANY war. If you're going to bash her, bash her for the right thing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

135. I am not alone in criticizing her

Two years from now, Hillary Clinton might be pleased to hear the kind of boos and antiwar chants that greeted her days ago when she spoke at the annual Take Back America conference of Democratic activists and argued against a timetable for withdrawal from Iraq. But so much of politics is about timing. And right now, Clinton is facing a serious problem of premature triangulation

<skip>

These days, and from here to the horizon, there's no larger or more adamant Democratic constituency than the antiwar voters who want the U.S. military out of Iraq pronto. At this point, Hillary Clinton's pro-war position is far afield from the views of most grassroots Democrats.

http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/37634/

Former Democratic presidential candidate Gary Hart is hinting that he won't support Hillary Clinton when she runs for president in 2008, saying he's in "total disagreement" with her support for the Iraq war.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2006/1/9/123425.shtml

Unlocking the latest Clinton cryptex, we find not a papyrus map but other kinds of symbolic clues: Making headlines with her warm assessment of Bush. Partying with a Who's Who of the GOP power elite, including Karl Rove, Karen Hughes, Tom DeLay, and Bill Frist. Planning a fundraiser to be hosted by -- wait for it -- Rupert Murdoch.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/cracking-the-hillary-code_b_20966.html

Today, a national gathering of Democrats loudly rejected Hillary Clinton. It wasn’t a subtle snub. It wasn’t a symbolic split. This gathering of Democrats openly said “Boo!” when Hillary Clinton took the stage. They actually booed her.

http://newyorkliberal.com/blog/2006/06/14/boo-clinton-boo/

[mtnsnake]

136. Criticizing is one thing; lying about her is another

When I say "lying", I'm not talking about you in particular and I'm not talking about those posts above that you love to paste on her "behalf", just the multitude of Hillary haters here who post garbage and propaganda about her on a daily basis that's so far from the truth it's dirty.

FYI and anyone elses, she's not a war monger; she's not a neocon; she's not a Bush lover; and she's not most of the things that the anti-Hillary crowd here on this forum try and shove down everyone's throats as gospel.

[proud2BlibKansan]

140. Did you even read any of those links?

She was BOOED. By Democrats. Just a month ago.

She is HATED by many many progressives. That is NOT a lie. And yes, she is a war monger, and is entirely too kind to dubya. Promoting her candidacy is a complete waste of time. As I said earlier in this thread, I am a very active Democrat and I don't know ONE person who is supportive of Hillary for prez. Not one.

[JNelson6563]

98. Yeah, she's really caused them great fear so far

By being such great pals with them I am sure she has caused them to cower at the mention of her name. It's so bad Rupert Murdoch is helping her with fundraising.

Your song and dance grows old and cold my friend.

[Armstead]

99. She's too Corportate Cozy amd doesn;t have a real center

The Clintons have become too much a part of the Beltway/Wall St/Greenspan revolving door.


She also doesn't seem to have a real center. The fact that there are so many differing perceptions of where she stands indicates that she is a classic chamellion.

We need someone who will bring in some fresh air and some real liberal/progressive political passiion to lead the Democrats.

[paulk]

100. the enemies she has

well, both the far right and the far left seem to hate her -

that's a pretty good endorsement right there....

[BigYawn]

111. Yes, and the African-Americans will vote for Hillary about 98.5%

[Andromeda]

116. How true!

Lol,lol,lol!

[Zapatero]

109. I Agree With

you. She is my senator too and she has done a great job for NY.

[MasonJar]

113. I do NOT think that Hillary is pro-war; she is looking for solutions

that will work. I will work tirelessly for whichever candidate the democrats select. Look at the alternative.

[mtnsnake]

133. In a nutshell, that is 1 of the most sensible & truthful posts about her

on this forum.

[proud2BlibKansan]

125. How much support does she have??

Readers Speak: Gore, Chomsky and Ivins Are Winners

By Don Hazen, AlterNet
Posted on July 13, 2006, Printed on July 13, 2006
http://www.alternet.org/story/38849/
The results are in. More than 13,000 readers cast their straw vote in AlterNet's reader survey and poll conducted during the last two weeks of June. Readers came out in droves to state their preference for Al Gore as Democratic Presidential candidate for 2008.

Gore, whose popularity appears to be growing with the success of his documentary, An Inconvenient Truth, received 35 percent of the vote, followed by Senator Russ Feingold at 20 percent and former vice presidential candidate John Edwards at 11 percent. Wesley Clark received 4 percent, and John Kerry and Mark Warner 2 percent.

The big surprise in the survey is that Senator Hillary Clinton, whom many in the corporate media suggest is the front runner for the nomination, only received 7 percent of the vote. This is particularly surprising since 53 percent of the survey respondents were women. One possible reason for Senator Clinton's poor showing and Gore's popularity is that 24 percent of our survey participants chose the war in Iraq as their top priority issue. Hillary Clinton has not shown any leadership on the issue or been among those pushing for an end to the bloodshed.

<skip>

The Most Valuable Progressive designation went to Noam Chomsky, chosen by 21 percent of the voters, followed by Michael Moore at 15 percent and Amy Goodman at 13 percent. Howard Zinn had the votes of 13 percent and Cornell West 9 percent.

Molly Ivins ran away with 38 percent of the vote for Best Opinion Writer, followed by New York Times columnist Paul Krugman at 17 percent and Arianna Huffington at 10 percent.

more . . .

© 2006 Independent Media Institute. All rights reserved.
View this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/38849/

[election_2004]

134. Let's see....

Out of all the problems we're facing:

- rising deficit / national debt
- dwindling international allies
- increasing energy dependence
- health care gouging
- the non-wealthy fucked in the ass by educational barriers (financial and institutional)
- environmental degradation
- heightened hostility toward LGBT people
- coast-to-coast poverty
- glaring disrespect toward religious freedom (mainly of religious minorities)

And your criteria for picking the next president is who's going to make the Republicans shit themselves?!?!?!?!

Misplaced priorities, anyone?

[Cocoa]

144. that is a definite plus

freepers blowing themselves up in apartment buildings all over the country the day after the election. :toast:

[Crazy Guggenheim]

146. If the only thing you have to say is something about the enemies you can't

win!

[cosmicdot]

148. you judge people by the company they keep

I believe is the expression ...

People choose their friends because they have something in common
Birds of a feather flock together, etc.