Clark and Dean supporters, is there a deal to be had?

[Turkw]

in the Washington state caucus, like the Kucinich/Edwards deal?

[Tweed]

1. Kucinich/Edwards deal....

[mikehiggins]

2. Nah, neither camp would buy into something like that. It seems just too

desperate. Just remember Iowa on CSpan, how desperate the Dean girl seemed as she tried to round up support against Senators Treebeard and Ken.

I wish her luck in her future endeavors but it was plain she was outo of luck from the outset. The same thing will be obvious in Washington and who wants to be thought that desperate at this stage in the game?

The only hope, IMHO, is for the grassroots supporters of Dean and Clark to unite behind one candidate (hopefully Clark, of course) if they are at all serious about stopping Senator Treebeard and the Dem establishment from getting the nomination.

Treebeard is certainly preferable to the Invisible Airman but we can do better.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

3. wait wasn't that the gephardt girl?

[EXE619K]

4. Yes, that was a Gephardt supporter.

The Dean supporter was the middle-aged lady(with specs).

[Ivote]

6. Well dont we

both have more in common on our issues than the other candidates? The question now is who can best bring them forward?

February 2, 2004 For Immediate Release: Fifty-five US Ambassadors and Diplomats Endorse Clark visit www.clark04.com/press/release/221/ for text

[EXE619K]

8. The possible solution:

It is true that Dean and Clark camps have a lot in common.

Ever since I started supporting Dean over a year ago, I have followed the Draft Clark movement as well. Many Draft Clark movement was started by ex-Dean supporters who believed that Dean wouldn't fare well because of that "lack of foreign policy" experience.

Now, both candidates have will have enough money to carry them well into the primary cycle with their strong Grass Roots support.

If the two campaigns were to join forces to de-rail the current front runner...

The two campaigns can ride out the strom here until March or April, picking up whatever delegates they can muster and perhaps in the end they can decide(based upon which one has more delegates) who gets to "lead" the ticket.

[mikehiggins]

9. Oh GAWD! That's so embarrassing

You're right of course.

I can't believe my short term memory has gotten that...

Uhh, what were we talking about??

[krkaufman]

5. Dean and Gore throw support behind Clark in Tennessee

... is what I would like to hear.

[HFishbine]

26. Reciprocate

While there are some clear distinctions between Clark and Dean, they are both the outsider candidates and by that broad measure, should have some cross-over appeal. What about Dean voters pledging to go for Clark in TN, while Clark supporters go for Dean in WA?

[Carolina]

35. hummmm

I kinda like that idea. The pundits' heads would be spinning, and Kerry and Edwards would have to stop the chatter about a 2-man race.

[janx]

31. That gal was a Gep supporter.

Please don't try to attribute her to the Dean campaign.

[EXE619K]

7. At this point....

As for meself, I could care less if Dean got the nomination(which seems more and more likely that he will not).

I will support the good Governor whether he's chances are good or bad. I guess it's just my way of showing appreciation for standing up for me when all the other prominent party leaders would not.

My objective this year was to somehow introduce a "new face" to the Democratic party so that Indys like myself could assert himself a bit more into the party system. But, it looks like it will not happen this year.

As for myself(and myself only), if supporting someone from the "outside" will send a clear message to the Democratic party establishment that sticking by the same old failed methods of the past is wrong and unappealing....I'm all "ears" to that.

As far as the "deal" is concerned...I think that's more of a campaign level decision and an individual effort will be meaningless.

[Bucky]

10. A poetic tribute to Dean people who keep asking Clarkies for a "deal"

A poem

When Dean was up and Clark was down
He crapped on Clark till we turned brown
But now that Clark is lookin' real
The doctor's peeps all want a deal

Well, all my fellow Democrats
Who used to brag of bustin' bats,
You're free to join us and play ball,
But Wesley Clark ain't Monty Hall.

[EXE619K]

11. Was this thread started by a "Dean person"?

I don't represents all the Dean supporters here, however, I would be just as happy to see Howard Dean not win ANYTHING and goes back to Vermont to live out his days with his wonderful wife.

Like I said, all the "deals" that people are speculating about is meaningless unless the campaigns will discuss the issues.

I'm merely stating my "possible scenario" if it were to happen.

[Bucky]

13. No, by a Gephardt person just joined Clark. But Dean folks have said this

I've seen something like half a dozen threads started by Dean people proposing some deal like this. Clark people are quietly demuring, but the beast keeps coming back to life. I tire of it.

I agree that Dean deserves a restful return to private life and that he's got himself one hell of a fantastic life partner. He's done an invaluable service to the party, of course. I'm willing to forgive him for calling my boy a Republican, which was a lie and a below the belt shot--but not worth my anger since only the desperate resort to name calling. I only state that it is his supporters who push this deal idea after so many of them attacked Clark's creds as a Democrat, and even as a small-d democrat, that need to back off. The idea won't fly. Yall can join this campaign, but it won't be on special terms. If Dean were up and Clark down, I'd expect and deserve nothing less from your side.

[EXE619K]

15. "Yes, there have been several long time Clark supporters.....

that have mentioned the alliance thing before" You simply cannot deny that. And also, there have been Dean supporters showing the same sentiments.

If I, or as you put it "yall" wanted to jump ship...it would have happened long ago. I changed my original ASM ribbon avatar to the current one and I have not changed my preference in candidates.

The fact is that no one knows what will happen and like I've stated before whether there will be an alliance or not, that's not for the individual supporters to decide. You raise your objections to this idea, however, if the candidates and the majority of their supporters are not willing to make a commitment to this "deal" nothing will fly.

As I've stated before , I'm only making a possible outcome(of many) to this primary, and I wasn't pushing for any single idea.

You must be one of the decision makers in the Clark campaign because your insistence on the "the idea won't fly" judgment.

As I state this again...it would be wholly premature to think that this "deal" has any wings without the commitment of the "real" campaigns...not the presumptuous speculation of some zealous supporter of a particular campaign on an Internet BB.

[Turkw]

19. I've never been a Gephart person, and why not look strategically at

the next few races. If Clark or Dean supporters don't have enough members at a particular caucus place, why not encourage them to support a particular other candidate? Edwards' surprise showing in Iowa was helped by the deal with Kucinich. In caucus states where one candidate is not activly campaigning, or doing well, this could help the other candidate. This could help both campaigns as we get vocal about the media coverage. Clark needs more and they both need fair and unbiased coverage focusing on issues.

[Bucky]

20. 1. Then I misunderstood comments from upthread. 2. I apologize. 3....

I don't want Dean people feeling unwelcome, but cutting a deal with them sends a bad message--the kind of message that would turn lots of voters off to Clark's candidacy. Americans don't look too favorably on strategic voting, which such a deal would ask them to do en masse. This deal would help Dean a lot; he's struggling to avoid the necessity of dropping out of the race following a string of disappointing returns. Clarkies helping him stay in the race accomplishes nothing for our goal of seeing Clark become president.

I like Dean's message a whole lot, but the man has basically imploded as a candidate. We need his votes, but we don't need his baggage.

That said, let me reiterate that I regret my clumsiness and misunderstanding about who you were in my earlier post. That was wrong of me.

[JNelson6563]

22. Just an FYI

here in the real world a Clark person approached this Dean supporter on making a deal. Like I said, just an FYI.

Mind you this is the Clark person who tried teaming up with Kucinich people (back when a Stop Dean effort was viewed as necessary) and stole party info to use for the Clark campaign.

Julie

[bitchkitty]

39. You tire of it?

Yet here you are.

[dansolo]

23. Clark was the one crapping on Dean

You seem to have a selective memory. I seem to recall that it was Clark (and Clark supporters) who were against the idea of Dean and Clark working together when Dean was in front.

[Bucky]

29. Not wanting to anchor Clark to Dean is not "crapping on" Dean.

You say that Clark people didn't want to cut a deal w/ Dean people when Dean was in the lead. I agree. I don't recall any offers of coalitioning back then coming from Dean, but I'm sure you're right that at the tiem any offers of a team up were rebuffed. So there's no situational ethics now when Dean is down and his people again are talking about teaming up with Clark people. The answer was no then and the answer is no now. We're being consistant.

Honestly, I don't recall any offers coming from Dean supporters back before Dean's numbers started going down. All I recall is the reiteration that if Clark can't beat Dean in the primaries, how could he possibly be considered more electable in the fall. Dean supporters of course do not make that argument so much any more.

But I'm not interested in attacking Dean, only in rejecting offers of strategic alliances with Dean's supporters during the primary season. I think it would work against my guy's candidacy--that's it. If Dean pulls off a radical reversal of fortune and nabs the nom, I'm happy to support him. If Kerry wins or if Edwards wins, I'm still a happy warrior. I find the allegiance idea funny, not the candidate. I wanna be very clear about that.

[janx]

32. Um--this thread was started by a Clark supporter.

The doggerel's not bad though.

[genius]

12. I'm sure Clark can make better deals. He's a general. Dean avoided

serving. That alliance could only hurt Clark.

[joshcryer]

24. Think about the grassroots.

Not about the candidates.

Dean and Clark have a lot in common in that respect. This is an undeniable fact.

[PassingFair]

38. Anyone with half a brain

avoided serving in Vietnam. Only the poor and the mislead idealists volunteered. Just ask them. Does anyone really think that America did the right thing in Vietnam?

[Merlin]

14. The Clark campaign is still riding on delusions.

They think they can emerge victorious with the cards in their hands. They can't.

Clark is seen by too many as way too light on skills in the political/public office arena. Ask regular people. They'll tell you. He's strong on military and national defense, they'll say, but he's never held public office before.

The result of course is that Clark is on a slide only slightly less severe than Dean's. He barely won OK even though he was well ahead there just a week earlier. He slipped out of contention in AZ in the last few days, also.

So you'd think the Clark campaign would wake up to the obvious fact that a deal with Dean is the only way for Clark to be able to contend for the top spot.

Dean surely knows he's a long shot. Clark doesn't. Part of the reason is that Clark thinks he can be Kerry's VP. But Kerry doesn't need Clark if he's got an Edwards for #2.

Clark's only chance -- and Dean's only chance -- is for the two of them to make the following deal: Whichever one of them has fewer delegates at convention time will support the other for top spot, and agree to go on the ticket as VP candidate. They should announce this now. It could possibly ressurect both their campaigns.

But things are slipping quickly for both of them. Time is running out.

[TexasPatriot]

16. i'm not agreeing

but i'm not disagreeing...

a deal with Dean would certainly end the media drought... and i'd bet it would suck back half those supporters that went over to Edwards in about 2 minutes.

[joshcryer]

25. Very well said, and very thoughtful.

Here are two campaigns which both have very good grassroots support. We need to join, I don't care who wins or loses.

[Quixote1818]

30. Clark is leading Edwards by 6 pts. in Tenn. Seems you are wrong

[Carolina]

36. never held public office before

so what ... how do you explain Arnold, the Gropinator AKA Governor of California.

Unfortunately experience, intelligence and true qualifications do not matter to a significant portion of the voting populace, otherwise we wouldn't have so many fools in high office.

What's important is that Wes is the whole package: a life story that would make a great movie of the week, real intelligence and worldly experience and in Q&A, person-to-person sessions, he connects (Gert, his wife, even more so).

[GalleryGod]

17. Ooooooooooo Would this be "New Style Politics" at Work??

:wtf: instant karma's gonna get ya' !

[NV1962]

18. Too early now

But if, at some point in the future, some more broad deal would come to fruition, I wouldn't mind throwing my support behind the Doctor, if he gets the nod ahead of the General; vice versa is of course also nice! ;)

In fact, the idea of exploiting political energy by "nuclear fusion" has lots going for it...

But... Still too early for that.

The looks department isn't doing bad for me, but it's waaaaay to early to think about double-dating, let alone a polygamous household!

:evilgrin:

[robbedvoter]

21. You may want to read this article first

Clark 'playing to win' in Virginia

Virginia primary campaign: Wesley Clark responds to sniping

By MICHAEL ZITZ
http://fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/2004/022004/02052004/1255175
Date published: 2/5/2004

[Nashyra]

27. Any active military people can not

stand with Clark. They have to remain non-partisan, they have to remain publicly for the "commander in chief". That was a cheap shot. My hope is that the Dean campaign stays alive and if doesn't that the supporters will come over to the other grass root supporters.

[Maddy McCall]

34. McPeak sounds sleazy...not very reliable.

Great evidence of military support for Clark, and this columnist relies on the one person who supports Dean to give him his story. Sleazy journalism, sleazy AF general.

[mikehiggins]

40. And compliment the writer on taking the time to find the facts

instead of just repeating McPeak's smears.

"Volunteers" like McPeak often do more harm to their own candidates than to the opposition.

[mmonk]

28. At this point

I would be for a deal. Still want an outsider.

[Carolina]

37. me too

the Washington insiders, especially JFK, who went along to get along with Bush make me:

:puke:
:crazy:
:mad:
:(

[Maddy McCall]

33. Nope.