Hackett at DemFest, sounding like Democrats should sound.

[madfloridian]

I want to thank raines at DailyKos for the updates from Democracy Fest. I posted one here in another thread about what Marc Maron said..it was hilarious and real. Don't know how raines transcribed it all, but glad it was done.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/7/16/9433/35987/114#c114

Just a snip, pretty long.

"He closed out Saturday night. Compressing video now, took some notes while transferring to computer.

How's everybody doing. Are you awake? Are we democrats? Are we proud democrats.

My name is Paul Hackett, and I am a Proud Democrat.

"All the jokes have been told, all the political lines have been hit, so of course they leave it to the guy who's not running for a damn thing"

"Its July. November is just around the corner. We Democrats, we can sit around, laugh, cry, poke fun at that chucklehead who is running the country.

Keep this in mind: we have an awful lot of work ahead of us to be successful in November 2006 and more importantly in November 2008.

...

Lets focus on some basics, lets get it crisp, let's get it clear
recite together

we are democrats
we are the party of fiscal responsibiltiy, strong national defense, limited government, and fair trade

sometimes I get booed "you sound like a republican"



on the campaign trail, people say "he's angry"
"If you're not angry you're not paying attention"

Christian... yes, "none of your damn business"

why are we even engaged in this conversation?"

Ok, don't think I will be sued if I post a wee bit more. He sounds good. Glad he endorsed Brown, glad he has been listening to the right people.

social issues... when I was running in the house race, the short-lived primary in the house race.
Well, maybe...

staff: don't talk about those social issues. Meeting with gay leaders. "who the hell cares. It's 2006, we're having this conversation, who gets rights and who doesn't get rights? 18 years I've been a lawyer. There's not a sign in Hamilton County courthouse, straight americans go in here, gay americans go in here"

"sanctity of marriage... are you kidding me? My marriage is just fine. It doesn't need protecting by Bill Frist."

And, sorry but I can not resist posting this cute pic of Jim Dean in the blogger's lounge at Dem Fest. Please ignore the cute couple next to him. He seems to be. Cute and cuddly couple.

[blue neen]

1. "that chucklehead who is running the country"

I love it.

[Catch22Dem]

2. Here's a killer line!

"sanctity of marriage... are you kidding me? My marriage is just fine. It doesn't need protecting by Bill Frist."

[brentspeak]

3. Hackett for Congress!! (House or Senate, either one will do)

Hopefully, the Democratic powers-that-be will treat him better next time, because the rank-and-file (like me) want to see him in Congress.

[Botany]

4. Pual Hackett is the real deal

He should be president .... end of story.

[Schema Thing]

5. I think it sounds as if Wes Clark had a come to Jesus meeting with him

He's been striking the right notes since suddenly deciding to play nice and endorse his opponent. It's as if he realized that a future in politics is not much of a future if we live in a fascist state.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

6. Wow, the tide has changed...

last month he was getting pummeled at DU.

[madfloridian]

7. I think views are mixed.

I am not sure about how I feel.

I am glad, though, to have him endorse Brown, and work to get him elected.

I thought his speech was very interesting last night from what I hear at least.

[leesa]

8. He did sound good in this speech, however, he advocates compulsory

military service (military, not public service) and is quite obnoxious. He is very obviously campaigning for something. Just sort of gives me the creeps. Maybe its just being new to the game. I don't think he respects Democrats too much.

[OzarkDem]

9. Hackett advocates compulsory military service?

I don't think that's such a good idea. If he wants to be a Dem, that's great. Let's see him stick around for a couple of years and prove his worth and loyalty, then I'll consider supporting him. He has a history of hopping from party to party.

On edit: I'll be watching to see if he ends up jumping ship and starting a new third party soon. He was active in Perot's party until it folded. Hackett does seem to fit more into the Ross Perot / Jesse Ventura style of politics.

[MercutioATC]

10. Can't miss a chance, can you?

:eyes:

[OzarkDem]

11. You think compulsory military service is good?

As someone with a teenaged son, pardon me for objecting to it.

It also doesn't pass the Constitutional test - not something our Founding Fathers had in mind, either.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[MercutioATC]

12. No, I don't.

I also haven't seen a Hackett thread that you didn't feel the need to make negative posts in.

(and you didn't simply disagree with his stand on compulsory military service, you questioned whether he's really a Democrat)

[OzarkDem]

13. I don't question he's a Dem

If he says he is, he is. But having been involved in politics and campaigns a long time, I know most Dems are somewhat leery of anyone who jumps parties. Everyone usually has to go through a trial of sorts to see if they're serious or just playing games. He's been incredibly lucky to get as much support as he has so early in his Dem career, but its reasonable to be cautious, particularly of such a high profile person who has been given a lot of publicity.

[MercutioATC]

15. "Jumps parties"? When did he run as a Republican?

:shrug:

[OzarkDem]

16. He's been both a Republican and

a member of Perot's Reform Party. Check his bio, he's said so on numerous occasions.

[MercutioATC]

17. Hell, I was a Republican in the past...so were a lot of good Dems I know.

Sorry, I don't see your definition of "party jumping" as something negative, especially when the candidate in question has mede very strong statements in support of Democratic ideals.

[OzarkDem]

20. Neither R's or Dems

are in the practice of letting "party jumpers" run for high public office without having learned a little more about them.

[MercutioATC]

21. ...and that's part of the problem with the system...

The old guard stays in power long enough to lose touch with their constituents. I'm looking for a different solution.

[OzarkDem]

22. It would be foolish

for any party to allow untested candidates, whom they know little or nothing about and who may not have the critical skills to do the job to run for a high public office like US Senate. That's not stifling creativity, its common sense.

Would you spend $6 or $7 million on a car you had never driven before?

[MercutioATC]

23. ...sooner than I'd pay $6-$7M on a car that I knew was a lemon, yes.

It's a philosophical argument that we're never going to agree on...

[OzarkDem]

24. Given you are a former Republican

I agree.

I'm not saying I won't give Paul Hackett a chance, but he has to prove himself. He may end up being a good Dem candidate, who knows? But he still has a long way to go to prove himself.

[MercutioATC]

28. Hate to break it to ya, but you NEED "former Republicans"...

...there aren't enough lifelong Democrats to get the job done.

What I'm advocating isn't a "R v. D" concept, it's change. Your way doesn't seem to be working for us. I believe a new tack is called for.

[OzarkDem]

30. You're showing your inexperience

when you try to paint Sherrod Brown in a negative light. He's one of the best and brightest Dem legislators in Congress. Granted, his support of issues like fair trade and fair wages and affordable health care for everyone and his opposition to things like the War in Iraq and the Patriot Act may not be your cup of tea, but, believe it or not, those are issues that a large majority of voters support.

So, in that case, if you feel the Dem party needs to attract Republicans who support the war, oppose access to health care and oppose a healthy economy and good paying jobs, you just may be wrong. We don't need to attract those kinds of Republican voters, we don't need to give up our values, because most Americans agree with us.

So which is it, do you oppose the issues Sherrod has worked for and advanced in Congress or do you just not know enough about his record and experience?

[MercutioATC]

47. Nice try, but I'm not biting. We've discussed these issues before,

so you know that your characterizations of what "my cup of tea" is in your first and second paragraphs are completely without merit.

As to your third paragraph, I'm not willing to let you frame the issue in that manner. As we've discussed in the past, my issue is with inside-the-beltway politics and the behavior it manifests. I believe we need candidates who are willing to say what they think in a blunt, easy-to-understand way. I believe we need candidates who aren't so conditioned by the profession of politics that they moderate their message just so they get a good sound bite. I believe we need candidates that can motivate people both practically and viscerally.

Sherrod Brown is a "good Democrat". He's also a professional politician who calculates every statement. His (and your) denials notwithstanding, I believe he was involved in the Schumer/Reid flip-flop on supporting Hackett...or at very least he played "good soldier" and acquiesced to their wishes.

Yes, I'm voting for Brown. I wish I could say that I was doing so enthusiastically, but I'm not...especially when I know that my vote helps perpetuate the way we currently run our party.

Does that make me "inexperienced"? No. It's not a matter of experience, it's a matter of principle.

Are my views naive? No. I fully realize that this approach may well cost us some elections in the short term, but I believe we'll see a long-term benefit.

Am I being impractical? Absolutely. It's my belief that the current system is broken. We're hurting ourselves by failing to address that. However, it's a fact that the current system does prevail. We have two choices..."stay the course" and hope things improve or make real changes (acknowledging that we may realize short-term losses) in attempt to make "politicians" what they were meant to be...real people representing real people. I'll cast my vote for the latter, (if I'm ever given that option).

[OzarkDem]

49. You continue to be wrong

you really should pay attention to what Brown says and does rather than what other people tell you. Its obvious you've never even seen him speak or read a speech. Take some time to do that, then we can talk.

[MercutioATC]

50. O.K. The basics. Opinions can't be "wrong".

Ours differ and that's fine. However, it's juvenile to accuse somebody's opinions of being "wrong".

I have not actually been present at a Sherrod Brown speech, but I have "read a speech" and I am aware of his voting record. My opinion remains unchanged.

Take some time to allow that somebody with a different view might actually have an informed different view, then we can talk.

[OzarkDem]

57. Your facts are wrong

But I suppose opinion can enter into it also. If your definition of being politically assertive is limited to whether a candidate says "Fuck" or calls his opponent vulgar names, then Sherrod Brown isn't your guy.

I'd also venture to say that Hackett wouldn't have the guts to talk that way on the floor of the Senate, and if he did, he'd quickly become ignored, avoided and ineffective.

OTOH, this works better

Big government conservatives are spending trillions and wasting billions. Republicans are no longer the party of fiscal conservancy, but the party of runaway spending and corruption.


The reality in Iraq is that we are creating new terrorists and severely damaging the public impression of the United States in the Muslim world.


The Republicans are running wild with our tax dollars and it's been a mistake to let this administration continue a policy of incompetence when it comes to Iraq.

Republican leadership in Congress let the energy companies write the energy bill that sent prices soaring, and has turned a blind eye to the struggles of working families trying to make ends meet.

It is unacceptable that someone can work full time - and work hard - and not be able to lift themselves out of poverty.

We must have a timetable for withdrawal of U.S. forces - or at the very least a plan for it - something the administration has incredulously failed to do for over two years.

It is past time for Republican leadership to answer for record deficits and reckless spending, both in Iraq and in the U.S. It's time for a plan to bring our troops home.

“Medicaid protects impoverished children, the frail elderly and people in crisis, ... Its limited resources will be further stretched serving hurricane victims. Proponents of Medicaid cuts either undervalue Medicaid assistance or underestimate American compassion.”

And lets not forget the time when Sherrod Brown criticized Bush in a House International Relations Committee hearing, stating that "Bush may have been AWOL" in his years in the TANG. Colin Powell didn't forget it.

[Kukesa]

75. Juvenile accusations. Exactly. Enough already. nt

[Botany]

18. give it a rest!

Paul is doing what he thinks is right for the country and letting the
past be over but you just can not give it a break can you?

After all the crap that was pulled on him he comes out and is now working
for Brown but you have to get a dig in, don't you?

[OzarkDem]

19. Face facts

No one did anything to Hackett except Hackett himself.

Notice when Brown recently accepted Hackett's apology, Brown reiterated that neither he nor his campaign had anything to do with any smear campaign against Hackett.

Stop with the Brown bashing, and I'll let up on Hackett.

Get behind our Dem candidate and stop insinuating that he did anything wrong. The swiftboating of Sherrod Brown needs to come to an end.


On edit: might I make a suggestion that you take your Brown bashing to the Ohio forum, where Brown supporters aren't allowed to post. Out here in the GP forum, the rules are fair.

[w8liftinglady]

14. Ordinarily,I wouldn't agree...

however,the lack of investment the GOP has placed in this WAR is incredible-they say they support the troops,yet cut veteran spending and wouldn't dream sending their kids.I don't want my kid getting sent back for a 4th time.I want them to understand the consequence of their virtual hard-on for war.I want them to understand the stress that having your kid over there invokes.

[jonnyblitz]

25. so this week he is one of the good guys. a few weeks back

he was the anti-christ because he was trashing Murtha and doing some other flakey thing that everybody was up in arms over that i forget at the moment.

this is all amusing anyways. maybe next week he will suck again! I can't keep up. :crazy: :crazy:

[LittleClarkie]

73. It's the roller coaster effect

Boxer's on the outs too.

[LincolnMcGrath]

26. What a horrible strategy!

He should apologize and recant it all. :eyes:

Then some DUers would love him.

[Dr Fate]

27. I hate the way those idiot belt-way DEMS squeezed him out.

Anyone who is actually INSPIRATIONAL, they try to squeeze out.

I see a similar pattern with the Lamont vs. Lieberman thingy- whereby many established DEMS are backing the pro-Bush candidate, even after threats to go 3rd party, as opposed to going with the candidate who inspires.

[LincolnMcGrath]

29. The way to inspire the masses is to Apologize and Recant

According to some here anyway. :rofl:

[Dr Fate]

31. I'm so tempted to be done with all of it.

Sometimes I think I just need to enjoy myself & my family and just move out of the way and let these jerks destroy the world.

The least I can do is enjoy it while the living standard is still somewhat decent.

Sorry, I guess I dont really mean that, but damn- I need some INSPIRATION- someone or some THING to rally around.

[OzarkDem]

34. The look into Sherrod Brown's campaign

and make up your own mind before letting someone else tell you what to think.

BTW, he's still running 11 points ahead of DeWine, I guess you still think he's a failure for doing that, too?

A good Dem with a liberal voting record, outspoken, hard campaigner, helps other Dems, kicks GOP ass regularly and is loved by his constituents and supporters. And you consider that a failure? Maybe you do need to take some time off.

[Dr Fate]

40. Oh- It's not about Brown per se- I'm sure he is a regular Democrat.

It's just the idea that the beltway DEMS listen to themselves instead of us, thats all. They get it wrong more than they get it right- but who knows.

Hackett actually inspired me to send him money and to talk about him- I thought he was the much more interesting & inspiring candidate.

[OzarkDem]

43. We'll, you're wrong on that one, too

He's about as much of a Beltway Dem as Russ Feingold, Barbara Boxer, Dennis Kucinich or Stephanie Tubbs Jones. In fact, you should probably ask any of them if Brown is a "Beltway Dem". I'm sure you would get a few chuckles out of them.

[Dr Fate]

45. I never said Brown was a beltway DEM.

I suggested that beltway DEMS preferred Brown over Hackett, for better or for worse.

I'll join you in hoping it was for the better.

[OzarkDem]

48. Thanks!

[LincolnMcGrath]

38. Never give up, never surrender!

[OzarkDem]

32. Or at least show some maturity and common sense

Sorry, but most Dems don't take kindly to loose cannons who spend their time criticizing good Dems like Sherrod Brown and John Murtha.

Hackett may some day grow into a good candidate for office, but he's still got a long way to go.

BTW, how often do I hear you singing praises when Sherrod Brown gives speeches kicking Bush's ass? Do you ever bother to even read his speeches or follow what he's doing? Sad day for Dems when they don't even take the time to look into the work a Dem candidate is doing before they make unfounded accusations.

[LincolnMcGrath]

33. I loved Sherrod before it was cool.

[OzarkDem]

36. Me, too

So what's the problem?

[LincolnMcGrath]

39. I don't have a problem with S B

[Dr Fate]

35. That's the problem- you have to dig up Brown's speeches on the internet.

With Hackett- he was an interesting guy with earned credibility on defense issues- these virtues got him more media coverage than the average DEM- you didnt have to go digging for his speeches to hear about what he was up to.

Sure, he was not perfect, but he was inspiring, and people listened to him...

[OzarkDem]

37. You have to dig up Hackett's, too

Sorry, you'll have to do better. Brown gets just as much media coverage.

[Dr Fate]

41. Nah- he was a media star during & after he almost won in Ohio.

I heard about him all the time- people who dont normaly talk politics knew who he was.

Brown did not and does not get the same national media coverage- but hey- as the races heat up- I'm sure he will get more.

[OzarkDem]

42. Big surprise for you

Ohioans know much more about Sherrod Brown than they do about Paul Hackett - that's why he's ll points ahead of DeWine.

Hackett was the Dem's Fonzie on the Internet. His popularity doesn't translate outside of the online political community. Even at the height of his US Senate campaign, less than 10% of Ohio voters knew who he was.

[Dr Fate]

44. That explains his historic numbers against Jean Schimdt (sp)...

...in a heavy GOP district. Must of been DUers and "the political community" all infiltrating the Ohio polls- certainly not regular old voters, right?

Apparently he was and is able to get himself known.



Look- I vote straight DEM, always will.

I'm sure Brown has a chance, if not a great chance.

Good enough?

[OzarkDem]

46. Outside of his hometown

he is not well known.

Running in a Cincinnati area district isn't the same as running in all 88 counties.

[Dr Fate]

56. Yeah- who in the world outside of Cincinnati has even heard of him?

I mean, the only reason I know who he is because I saw him on CNN, NBC and FOX, which apparently is only shown in Cincinnati and in my town.

I'm wishing the best for Brown- I'll join you in hoping the DEM strategists who lost the last 3 election cycles were right for once.

[OzarkDem]

58. Thanks, we're doing fine!

Brown has been leading DeWine by double digits for the last few months. He's an experienced campaigner who is used to getting support in rural areas.

[Kukesa]

76. If only Brown could own a thread with this much passion. nt

[MercutioATC]

51. You DO realize you're not getting out of this alive...

...short of complete capitulation, don't you?


This nice thread about how Hackett is supporting Brown has been turned (by certain people) into a "Brown is God" thread.

Give it up...you really can't win (or even express your opinion)

[Dr Fate]

54. Brown is fine- Brown himself was never the bigger issue. n/t

n/t

[OzarkDem]

63. Glad you agree, thanks! n/t

[OzarkDem]

59. Baloney

Its time you guys get used to supporting Dem candidates, it is an election year, you know.

And the reason this thread turned is because the Brown bashing began. Sorry, but that kind of crap isn't acceptable or called for. Dems need to show some unity.

[Dr Fate]

64. The battle isnt over unity, but over who picks who we unify behind.

I'm not disagreeing with you either-but some of us want to be able to unify behind the more aggressive candidates someday- the ones that WE choose.

I hear calls for supporting certain Democrats in the name of "unity"- so long as we are talking about unifying behind DEMS like John Kerry, Finegold and John Conyers too, then I'm fine with that.

You are right- it is almost getting to the point where we have to put on different hats- the gadfly business should be coming to a close soon. Just dont expect people to forget what went down if Brown loses.

I'm not arguing- but just note that for the future.

[OzarkDem]

67. Agressive candidates are fine

that's why I support Sherrod Brown. We have to support aggressive candidates who can also win and have experience running in big expensive races.

Brown has proven himself to be the best person and we're very lucky to have someone who is both aggressive and a good campaigner.

I agree there have been cases where "Beltway Dems" have weighed in and supported candidates who didn't deserve support and who aren't leading the party in new directions. But this wasn't one of those cases.

We have to be careful not to throw the "baby out with the bathwater" and become anti-incumbency ideologues who want to throw every incumbent Dem out of office.

[Dr Fate]

69. I'm sincerely glad that we mostly agree. n/t

n/t

[Awsi Dooger]

53. You love to repeat that nonsense, Brown ahead by 11 points

Here are the most recent public polls:

Rasmussen: 46-39 DeWine
Survey USA: 48-39 Brown
Rasmussen: 43-41 DeWine

Obviously wide disparity. Two from Rasmussen favoring DeWine but Survey USA listing Brown ahead by 9. I assume you misread that Survey USA poll as 49-38 and not 48-39 and that's where the +11 comes from. No big deal.

Rasmussen will be dismissed as right leaning but he got it right in '04, specifically weighting the party ID close to even. This year he has stated he's using +3.3 Democratic for party ID, which would be fantastic if it's the nationwide number. Rasmussen's polls should be favorable to us this year so anything that is not is cause for concern.

This race figures to be very close. DeWine is the slight betting favorite right now.

BTW, I have seen Sherrod Brown speak, including on CPSAN, the July 3rd event. Great energy and emphasis, all the right Democratic themes. He's been better than I expected but I preferred Hackett as the nominee due to the instant headline aspect of his personality. IMO, against an incumbent that's what it takes, a unique and interesting candidate to inspire the swing voters and soft supporters of the other side. With Sherrod Brown, far too much chance he runs a perfect campaign but comes up short simply due to the red nature of the state, and opposing an incumbent.

[OzarkDem]

60. Get over it

Brown is doing fine and he has the support of his fellow Dems and Independent voters. While that may rankle you, you really should move on.

[MercutioATC]

80. Alternately, you COULD just answer Awsi's question...

How do you resolve your claimed "11-point lead" with the decidedly mixed poll results?

[madfloridian]

52. What the hell happened?

I left a perfectly nice thread and just saw this.

Infighting.

And no one said a word about Jim Dean sitting there and just ignoring that cute couple. I thought that was sweet.

[rexcat]

55. This really did start out to be a nice thread...

but things happen! If I say any more I will get "dltd". There is a bias with the "mdrtrs" concerning Brown and some individuals can "hjck" threads like yours concerning certain topics with impunity.

I think something is wrong with my keyboard! It doesn't seem to working properly.

[OzarkDem]

62. That's true

Some of us have finally decided to stand up to the Hackett bullies.

If you want to start smearing Brown, expect a fight.

[rexcat]

65. I really don't think I bashed Brown in thread 55...

In fact I don't think anyone bashed Brown in this thread. You really need to get a grip on reality! You get a little boring after a while especially when you take over a thread like this one. About 1/3 of the posts in this tread are yours. You have contributed nothing of substance in this thread other than to aggravate people.

I think there is some projection on your part when it comes to bulling!

[Kukesa]

77. "Finally stand up to Hackett bullies" ?? Now, that's a hoot.

Give it up, Ozark. We're all on to you.

[OzarkDem]

61. Hackett supporters can't stop bashing Sherrod Brown

Given that this is a Democratic forum, its time that Brown supporters be allowed to respond. No matter how hip, or kool it may be to bash Brown, I'll be damned if I'm going to let it happen.

If you have a problem with that, well, I can't help you.

[madfloridian]

66. Wow, and I never even mentioned Brown at all.

:wow:

except to say he endorsed him.

[OzarkDem]

70. I'm referring to other posts in the thread

where the same old Brown bashing started in.

Sorry, guys, but I've had enough of it, and its time we stop taking for granted the same old stuff. Sherrod is running a tough race against a Republican and he deserves our support, not the same old recycled stuff.

[LittleClarkie]

68. What bashing, exactly?

I see little about Brown. I see more about "Beltway Dems" that pushed Hackett out. While I think the dude may have dug his own grave, the "Beltway Dems" they're talking about are the likes of Reid and Schumer. If anyone's getting nailed, it's them.

[OzarkDem]

71. Sorry, but we have to dispel these myths

about how Brown supposedly did all these terrible things to Hackett. They're not true, they neve were. I never thought I would see the day when I would have to explain why I'm defending a good Democrat who's running for office.

It may be amusing for some of you, but I happen to live in Ohio and I'm sick and tired of Republicans and would like to see Ohio have a Dem in the Senate. Its not too much to ask that we stop running good Dem candidates into the ground strictly for our own amuesement, is it?

[LittleClarkie]

72. Where is that in this thread? (edit) Okay I see it now.

It still looks like you're overreacting to one guy you've had a disagreement with before.

I too find it annoying that for some reason experience = someone to be suspicious of and inexperience = all good things in politics.

But I never said a damn thing against Brown, so why in the hell are you coming at ME. Indeed, I'm sitting right in the middle of my own Republican hell hoping against hope that we can get rid of Sensenbrenner. The guy's so entrenched he has roots coming out of his butt. Oh sure. I'm here for my own FUCKING amusement. Woo fucking hoo.

It's just that Madflo posted a nice little thread that just happened to be favorable toward Hackett. The horror. I can understand why she's kinda miffed that it's turned into something completely different.

[MercutioATC]

74. Brown said that he wasn't running for the seat.

Reid and Schumer recruited Hackett to run for the Senate seat (going so far as to have their wives call his wife asking her to encourage him to run).

Three days after Hackett announced, Brown changed his mind.

Wanna dispute any of these facts?

[Kukesa]

79. Who is "WE"? No one else but you is ruining this thread. nt

[Kukesa]

78. Yes, it was a perfectly nice thread.

Then OzarkDem had to turn it into a Saint Sherrod rally.

Sorry, madfloridian. See what we Buckeyes have to put up with?

And. BTW, I liked both cute couples.