Bush: "Get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this shit and it’s over"

[Human Torch]

Bush caught on tape swearing about Syria
Microphone also picks up other comments — from Mideast to Diet Coke

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13901209/

ST. PETERSBURG, Russia - It wasn’t meant to be overheard. Private luncheon conversations among world leaders, picked up by a microphone, provided a rare window into both banter and substance — including President Bush cursing Hezbollah’s attacks against Israel.

Bush expressed his frustration with the United Nations and his disgust with the militant Islamic group and its backers in Syria as he talked to British Prime Minister Tony Blair during the closing lunch at the Group of Eight summit.

“See the irony is that what they need to do is get Syria to get Hezbollah to stop doing this s--- and it’s over,” Bush told Blair as he chewed on a buttered roll.

He told Blair he felt like telling U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who visited the gathered leaders, to get on the phone with Syrian President Bashar Assad to “make something happen.” He suggested Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice might visit the region soon.

[Dhalgren]

1. The Dictator has such a simplistic view of things.

He probably really thinks that Syria can just order the Hezbollah around like some sort of flunky. He has no grasp, no concept of the labyrinthine nature of international politics generally or Mid-East politics specifically. "A powder keg" is a very good description of the Middle East - not just Israel/Palestine, but of the whole Middle East. Syria can't just order Hezbollah to do something, there is much more involved in their relationship. The Dictator seems to think that every world leader is just some sort of crime boss who can simply order around his/her "soldiers". Jesus...

[sabbat hunter]

4. hizbollah

is supported by iran and syria but by no means IMO do they directly report to those countries. although if iran and syria cut off logistical and weapon support that would greatly help the situation. plus the fact that supposedly there are iranian technical support troops helping out hizbollah doenst make the situation any better.

[Dhalgren]

7. If the US cut support for Israel it would greatly help the

situation, as well. Someone, some time, has to start acting like an educated, sober, adult. Israel is showing as large a streak of ignorance and brutality as is Hezbullah. And, of course, our Dictator is (as always) functioning with little more than his brain-stem...

[sabbat hunter]

15. israel

has been under attack since the day it pulled out of gaza.

israel also warns the civilian populations to get out of the way because the terrorists are going to be bombed. that fulfills geneva convention requirements for civilians in a war zone.

hizbollah on the other hand, along with hamas, delibretly attacks civilians in such a way to maximize civilian casualties.

hizbollah and hamas should stop being cowards and stop hiding behind civilians.

[alvarezadams]

20. When...

...did Israel "pull out" of Gaza?

From the perspective of contraception, Israel's "pulling out" is more like an accidental exit between thrusts.

And that's part of the problem. The Geneva Convention is another...

As for "warning civilians to get out of the way" - this hardly fulfills Geneva. Unless you're the Attorney General of the US of A.

Now comes the "funny" bit. On one side you have the compendium of violent and non-violent orgs that defend the rights of Palestinians, Lebanese and sundry Muslims. On the other we have a nuclear power supported by the hyperpower. And you ask them to "stop hiding behind civilians".

When the PLO stopped what was the reaction? Arafat under siege. And his lack of "umph" paved the way for a democratically-elected Hamas government no less.

So in the face of overwhelming force, extrajudicial murder cum collateral damage - what do you expect the extremists to do? And I don't say this to justify ANY type of terrorism, neither the fundamentalist nor the state varieties.

Since perception is all, what can one do when one's back is to the wall? BOTH sides perceive this and both refuse to do the logical thing - to turn around or move away from the wall. Both sides have fallen for the typical conservative mindset - seeking closure and simplistic solutions based on a more-or-less false sense of self-righteousness.

Nevertheless, between a purportedly democratic, law-abiding state (with billions in aid and an insurmountable military lead) and groups of people who are (rightly or wrongly) fed up, I hold the purportedly democratic, law-abiding state to a higher morality threshold. And time and time again it is Israel that fails by lowering itself to the level of the criminals that it is supposedly defending itself against.

Israel's actions fly in the face of both logic and even expediency. As "The Magistrate" noted in another thread, Israel can only pursue one objective if it carries on with its extreme and disproportionate response -- the irradication through genocide of its "enemies". Experience shows that the creation of martyrs, collateral damage and the lack of solutions can only make things worse - what does Israel (or the US for that matter) expect from their use of force?

Mission accomplished?

Here's my solution, based on international law, the usage of diplomacy, logic and historical perspective:

1. Israel should unilaterally or bilaterally withdraw from all occupied territories (with the possible exception of Golan), fomenting the creation of a fully independent Palestinian state, with fair rights to water, etc.
2. The UN, US and EU should undertake to guarantee the integrity of the resulting STATES, providing (if necessary) a neutral force that would guard the frontiers until a peaceful status quo is reached.
3. The UN, US and EU should undertake to provide aid on the proviso that international law is respected by both sides.
4. All parties should agree to cooperate in the CRIMINAL pursuit of subsequent terrorist activities by all sides.

If the Palestinians have a viable state they will have achieved their principle objective - and will encounter that they have something of their own to defend. And something to lose if they allow continued terrorism. The international guarantee of Israeli safety in the face of military attacks should satisfy the Israelis.

Of course this won't happen. But one can vent, no?

[Dhalgren]

22. Well said! To the point and succinct!

And an excellent idea for resolution, but far too humane and common sensical... :applause:

[sabbat hunter]

24. sept 2005

israel pulled out of gaza. leaving it completley unoccupied by any israelis. israel controlled the gaza/israel border from the israeli side. EU monitors watched the gaza/egypt border (Which was completely open for the most part)

hizbollah hides behind civilians. what do you expect israel to do to fight them?

[alvarezadams]

28. You know...

...in political usage a "pull out" means that you don't "put back in".

As for the Israelis "completely" pulling out, this is patently false. "Israel will continue to control Gaza's coastline and airspace, reserves the right to undertake military operations when necessary" is not a pull out. And Israel never ceased to patrol areas of Gaza.

Hizbollah hides behind civilians? Israel hides behind irresisitible force and nukes and the US. How do you expect the Arabs to fight for their rights?

[sabbat hunter]

29. has

israel launched a nuke ever? have they threatened to?

there were no, repeat no IDF troops in gaza after the sept 2005 pull out.

the control of coastline and airspace would be things to be negotiated, unfortunately Hamas doesnt even recognize the state of israel.

[alvarezadams]

30. Logical fallacies

Has: "israel launched a nuke ever? have they threatened to?"

Did the USSR?


"there were no, repeat no IDF troops in gaza after the sept 2005 pull out."

Really? No patrols? No subsequent incursions?

"the control of coastline and airspace would be things to be negotiated, unfortunately Hamas doesnt even recognize the state of israel."

And the negotiation over the supposed rythm method was conducted by the PLO/PA. Fat lot of good that did them, eh? They recognized Israel, negotiated, and were so royally screwed that Hamas became electorally attractive.

Israel, especially under Likkud, has never negotiated in good faith. No need to mention Sharon's little foibles in Lebanon, right?

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sabbat hunter]

32. that is a load of BS

the camp david accords were done under a likud regime.

Fatah lost because it was irreparibly corrupt from the top down (how many billions did Arafat steal?)

that was why Hamas won not because of the negotiations.

[alvarezadams]

33. So?

"the camp david accords were done under a likud regime."

Has the GOP changed since Camp David? Likkud has.

"Fatah lost because it was irreparibly corrupt from the top down (how many billions did Arafat steal?)"

And "caving in" to the Israelis had nothing to do with it? Gimme a break. You've been reading the Jerusalem Post too much - take a break from Murdoch.

[sabbat hunter]

46. i dont read

i dont read any of murdoch's rags. nor the JP.

1) he didnt cave in to the israelis at all.
2) he stole billions. hamas was giving out social aid to the palestinians that the PA was supposed to but couldnt because of arafat. it was solely the corruption of fatah that caused them to lose.

likud was actually more conservative back then, lead by Begin and then Shamir. both were far right wingers.

the GOP has gone neo-con since then.

[iconocrastic]

34. ... but first the terrorists should stop killing Jews.

[alvarezadams]

35. ...but first the Israelis should stop oppressing Palestinians

Chicken meet egg.

[iconocrastic]

36. yeah, whatever

they are eating fire tonight.

The Palestinians would be a prosperous people if they gave up their worship of death.

Now they're tasting it.

[alvarezadams]

43. By jingo!

Sure you're not a Republican? Or DLC?

[priller]

10. I had similar thoughts

All solutions are just so simple to Bush. And easy. The decider decides what's best, the dictator dictates, other people jump to it, then he can spend the rest of his day exercising or watching baseball or whatever it is he does when he's not "running the world". Easy job!

[liberalmuse]

2. I honestly thought this was a joke.

Anyone who cast a vote for this moron really ought to crawl under a rock, or have their name written on a monument so future generations have names of all the people responsible for this atrocity. What a stupid, stupid, shallow man. How could Americans allow this imbecile to drag us down so far?

[Cosmocat]

9. You know what is sad ...

That the right wing has so effectively dumbed down the country, the non-stop hypnotic rantings of the right wing talk radio crew and the stunnlingly simple minded coverage of the MSM have, that there are MANY americans who will see nothing wrong with this ...

I post on a general politics discussion board, and I can guarentee, cause I have been though this stuff 1000 times with the conservabots, that 30% of the sheeple on the board will see absolutely nothing wrong it ... They will just say, as they have been instructed, that the UN sucks and it is all their fault, and it is good to have president who sees things so clearly ...

It isn't the majority of our country, by far ... BUT, it IS by far the loudest and most repetitive - the VERY squeeky wheel ...

[Skittles]

23. you said it, liberalmuse

I keep thinking I've reached as far as I can go with my disgust for this piece of shit "president" and the imbeciles who voted for him but it seems like every day it's something else, just more and more outrages

[KKKarl is an idiot]

3. Great quotes

Well we can add this to the great quotes from the president. Can we please have Lincoln back. So that our country can be known for it's greatness not it's stupidity.

[bullimiami]

5. as he chewed on his buttered roll

[jenmito]

17. He chewed with his mouth open...

It was gross, even if he hadn't said something so stupid.

[radfringe]

41. he has to chew with his mouth open

not enough room to chew with mouth closed when he has his foot in there too

[orwell]

6. Such a fine, upstanding...

...Christian man...

[bdamomma]

12. my answer to that is this:

:puke:

[guidod]

8. My dogs have better table manners than this guy...

...what a complete utter embarrassment! :wtf:

[win_in_06]

11. A lot of folks used to criticize him because he was really a blueblood

repug pretending to be a country bumpkin.

I don't think there are many doubters these days.

Anyway, Syria does have the ability to control Hezbollah, I believe.

[Dhalgren]

13. Just like the US can "control" Israel?

[win_in_06]

14. Well, aren't they doing our bidding right now?

Plus I wouldn't compare Hezbollah, a terrorist organization, to a legitimate country like Israel.

[cindyw]

16. Only a dictator thinks you can stop a war by telling them to stop it.

[boolean]

18. TOTALLY PLANNED AND DELIBERATE

Rove has done this before. I don't believe this shit for a second. You mean to tell me Blair and Bush would be talking all casual like that in the open knowing full well there are microphones? BULLSHIT!!

They're trying to bring back that stupid cowboy image and once again people are falling for it.

Just look at this Transcript

Who talks like that?

[threadkillaz]

42. I agree.

G dub does not look surprised when Blair turns the mic off.

[yy4me]

44. Would Rove be so stupid as to allow ****to deliberately

show such disgusting table manners? Even with the tough guy talk, no-one can believe the open-full- mouth chat is deliberate. Its gross, and I think that part is beyond Roves scope of presidential bravado script.

[zonkers]

19. link to video --- crooksandliars.com.....

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/Today-Bush-G8-un.mov

[gulliver]

21. "And can you get someone to get me some water."...

"Gettin' mighty parched here, Tony."

[McCamy Taylor]

25. Bush got his public potty mouth from Cheney. Minus 1 poll point.

[Vickers]

26. Classy.

:eyes:

[Efilroft Sul]

27. I'm of the opinion that Bush ISN'T stupid.

His worshippers may be, but he isn't.

Bushisms aside, I think we set ourselves up for failure when we "misunderestimate" the Decider. He has vicious and smart people around him, and he knows exactly what the score is. Furthermore, should we ever be so fortunate to impeach or incarcerate the bum, I don't want Bush playing the insanity defense to get off. He knows what he's doing, he's responsible for what his actions are. Therefore, he should pay the price, in this life or the next.

[Skittles]

39. no, believe me, the man is as dumb as a bag of hammers

I've put up with that incompetent twit for over a decade and there is no argument - the man is S-T-U-P-I-D

[sampsonblk]

37. Wow! Why didn't someone think of this BEFORE???-nt

nt

[RFKHumphreyObama]

38. You know if it were Clinton who were President now -

Although I would point out the situation in the Middle East would probably not have deteriorated this far if Clinton/Gore/Kerry were in the White House, because THEY WOULD HAVE KEPT THEIR EYE ON THE BALL and not played the fiddle while Rome (or in this case the Middle East) burned for six years, he would probably be in the Middle East right now negotiating with the key players. If not, he would be consistently on the phone with the key players and Albright/Dennis Ross would have been in the region eons ago trying to resolve things. He also wouldn't have spent the last six years deliberately antagonizing Assad and threatening to invade his country -Assad rightly or wrongly is one of the key players in the Middle East and whose cooperation is probably needed to end the crisis.

This idiot just chomps on a bread role, uses expletives and has the gall and the hypocrisy to whine that everyone else is doing nothing when in reality everyone else is doing more than he is. I remember last time a major crisis broke out in the Middle East, he was talking to his cows in Crawford.

I think his major problem is that he came to the White House with no other desire but to fulfil his own inflated sense of ego and self-importance and to try and one up daddy -meaning he doesn't give a stuff about domestic or foreign policy other than to give oil and contracts to Dick's buddies

[McCamy Taylor]

40. WTF! Get China to tell W. to broker some peace or else...they own us.

China wants oil stability in the region. They can tell the US to get off its lazy butt and start peace talks. And they can sweet talk Iran with some technology if it will help with peace talks too.

Why is this Syria's responsibility? They are a peon.

Or maybe Israel should take some responsibility for itself and sit down for peace talks without having the whole world beg it. Maybe it could show that it is better than a bunch of terrorists. W. does think that Israel is better than a bunch of terrorists, right?

The only nation that stands to gain from any of this craziness is Iran. All they have to do is play it cool and look sane while everyone else---Israel, the US, Lebanon, Iraq---looks crazy and out of control. It will serve W. right if Iran is the one who brokers peace. Iran wants to become the mid east super power. What better way than to show that IT has the ability to actually manage things in the region (unlike the US).

Seems like Iran is run by people who are a lot smarter than Bush-Cheney. I guess clerics, being scholars,. are just naturally brighter than failed oilmen.

[liberaliraqvet26]

45. Thats the GOP talking point....

Who knew after all these years thats it.

[norml]

47. The P-Word (huffingtonpost.com)

The P-Word (35 comments )
07.16.2006
READ MORE: Iraq, Israel, George W. Bush, Lebanon

Is Palestine.

And the discussion of Zionism for what it is -- exactly as we are witnessing right now -- a secular, racist political movement, characterized by expansionism and militarism , is going to have to happen online, because neither the mainstream press nor mainstream politicians will touch it with a ten-foot pole... even when it is piling up more bodies as it leads the world into a regional disaster.

Let's just get something out of the way right up front, before I go any further. Zionism is not Judaism; being Jewish does not make anyone Zionist; and anti-Zionism is not equivalent to anti-Semitism.

It is now well past time for the United States to withdraw all rogue state, Israel; though that is unlikely to happen without a movement to make it happen, because the US is now effectively the biggest and most dangerous rogue state on the planet.

Democrats won't touch this issue for the same reason they avoid that other P-Word, Prison. They are as complict in the incarceration of 2 million people here -- mostly of color -- as they are in the continuing support of the terror state of Israel.

So let's just talk briefly about what Zionism actually is, and get away from the mythology promoted by and AIPAC.


snip


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stan-goff/the-pword_b_25144.html