I need some help with an argument I'm having in another forum.I'm sorry for the length of this post, however, accounting has never been one of my strong suits. I hated it in college!
I posted this:
From Jim Hightower at www.hightowerlowdown.org :
Are You Better Off Yet?
(excerpts from Hightower Lowdown, July 7, 2006 issue)
Tax Cuts
2001 Income Tax Cut
Average cut for people making under $50,000 a year (71% of Americans): $425
Average cut for people making $1 million a year (0.1% of Americans): $59,216
Average cut for people making $10 million a year (0.00004% of Americans): $521,905
2003 Income Tax Cut
Average cut for people making under $50,000 a year: $10
Average cut for people making $1 million a year: $25,450
Average cut for people making $10 million a year: $497,463
2006 Extension of Tax cuts for Capital Gains and Dividends
Average cut for people making under $50,000 a year: $3
Average cut for people making $1 million a year: $59,972
Repeal of Estate Tax
Percentage of US families that pay any estate tax whatsoever.1.2%
Percentage of estate tax paid by richest 5% of Americans99%
Amount of money that repeal of this tax will take from our public treasury
& put in the coffers of the richest families in one decade..$1 trillion
Number of superrich families that have quietly funded
A stealth campaign for the past 10 years to promote
The repeal of the estate tax..18
(including the Waltons of the Wal-Mart fortune and heirs to Gallo wines,
Campbell soup, and M&M candies)
Total savings that just these 18 families would reap if the tax is repealed$71.6 billion
I got some replies from this jackass and want to make a compelling arguement. Aside from the fact that he's a condescending jerk and the fact that he has yet to post his sources (No surprise), I'd like to end his horrid reign on this thread once and for all. ANy help would be appreciated. By the way, I did get Jim Hightowers sources as The New York Times, Citizens for Tax Justice and Citizen.org.
Here is some of the argument he's presented:
<<<This is such a stupid fucking argument that people make all the time. Why don't you get your facts straight first?
In 2005, if you have 3 kids, you'd have to make $50, 900 before you'd pay ONE DOLLAR in federal tax. Of course the people making $1 million plus are going to save more money with tax cuts. They're paying most of it in!
Let me throw some stats in their for you, since you felt the need to skew them in your post:
The top 1 percent -- 1.194 million taxpayers with adjusted gross incomes above $229, 230 -- paid 32.3 percent of all federal individual income taxes.
The top 5 percent -- 5.972 million with adjusted gross incomes above $101, 202 -- paid 50.8 percent.
The bottom 50 percent of earners paid 4.3 percent.
Please look at the WHOLE argument before you start bashing people.>>>
<<<Where do you get that the rich are paying a smaller percentage of their income???
Please site some sources for me. In my experience, as an accountant, I've seen people making over $100K pay just as high a percentage if not more, than middle class. I don't think that people realize how many deductions get phased out once you reach about $120K in AGI. And don't forget about alternative minimum tax, which says if you save too much money with the deductions we've given you, then you're paying this extra tax.
I'm sure their are some valid arguments to hate Bush, but tax burden is just not one of them.>>>
<<<Well, until you stepped up, I was very impressed by how knowledgeable and tactful everyone was being.
Congratulations for blowing that out of the water.
I don't dispute that the rich should pay more of the taxes than anyone else, but liberal pansies like yourself keep saying that they're getting a bigger tax cut dollar wise (like the girl who originally posted this). NO SHIT SHERLOCK, they should be, they're paying more IN than anyone else. %age wise, they are not experiencing bigger tax cuts than anyone else.
Tax shelters, write offs, blah blah. The IRS is consistently doling out loophole closures to cut off any tax shelters they can find. And as I said earlier, if you read all the posts before spouting off, everyone gets writeoffs, and the more you make, the more they get phased out.
Take the time to read a 1040 one day. Don't you see all of the verbiage "If your AGI is less than XXX then...?>>>
<<<Well, sweetheart, it's simple math.
Let's start with the standard deduction for a married couple thats $10, 000
Then you add in the exemptions for the couple, and three kids, that's $16, 000
On top of that, you get a $1, 000 tax CREDIT for each child under 16. That's another $3, 000 of TAX (not income). To pay $3, 000 ($3, 001 actually) in tax as a married filing joint, you'd have to have an AGI (after standard deduction and exemptions of $24, 900.
So now let's add it up:
$10, 000
$16, 000
$24, 900
---------
$50, 900
And you would pay, let's see....ONE DOLLAR of federal tax.
My source is the Form 1040, individual income tax return. You can look it up on IRS.gov.
This of course, is without owning a home, or having any other deductions to increase that $10, 000 standard deduction limit.
That being said, sorry I called you a "girl", no disrespect meant :)>>>
<<<Actually, tax brackets prior to Bush's tax cut were in fact higher. The minimum tax rate was 15%, so there was no 10% bracket. Also, if you look at the threshholds for these brackets, they've gone up at well. Also, if I'm not mistaken, there was no 25% bracket prior. I believe it went 15%, 28%, 31% 36.9%.>>>
<<<Right, but your argument is that the lower brackets got no tax cut. They did. They added the 10% and increased the max income amount for 15%. That sounds like a tax cut to me.>>>
<<<Well, I couldn't find the exact article again, but here is another source, that has similar statistics:
Percentile..............Total Share of AGI............% of Federal Income Tax
Top 1%.........................19.5%.................................36.2%
Top 5%.........................34.0%.................................55.5%
Top 10%.......................44.9%.................................66.5%
Top 50%.......................86.8%.................................96.0%
Bottom 50%..................13.2%...................................4.0%
The top 1% of taxpayers has an adjusted gross income of $293, 415. To be part of the 5% group, you had to have an adjusted gross income of at least $120, 846, according to the IRS.
Sources:
(Wall St. Journal, Jan. 23 & Jan. 16, 2002, p. A1; Journal of Accountancy, March 2002, p. 67; The Kiplinger Tax Letter, Jan. 18, 2002, p. 4)
Unfortunately, 2002 is about the most recent information you're going to find out there.>>>
I'm sorry for the length of this post, however, accounting has never been one of my strong suits. I hated it in college!
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