Confessions of a Moderate... or: Why We Need Each Other

[ArbustoBuster]

This is a discussion regarding http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2731740

Speaking as a moderate, and speaking, of course, only for myself, I don't think you hate moderates. I think you hate conservatives, and saying that you hate moderates just drives us away at the very time when the more liberal wing of the Democratic Party needs us.

We moderates hate the Iraq War. It's wasteful of our money and our soldiers, it's killing innocent Iraqis, and it was started by a President who lied deliberately and quite possibly treasonously to start a war of aggression - a war crime which calls for the stiffest penalties under the international rules we Americans put in place after the Second World War.

We moderates believe that the poor, the young, and the old must be taken care of. We may disagree on how much should be spent or on how the resources should be apportioned, but we believe that letting the old, the young, or the ill to starve or suffer is incompatible with civilization. The discussion over how to help and how much to spend is democracy, and it's a discussion that has been going on for over two hundred years, trending always towards helping more no matter how many times the conservatives make it backslide.

We moderates don't side with the conservatives. We believe in the separation of church and state. We believe in the rule of law. Be believe in acting in the world with the help of allies rather than going it alone. We believe that America is for all of us, not just for the rich or the powerful or the well-connected. We believe that the color of one's skin is meaningless, and that the benefits of our country belong to all of us.

We don't capitulate. If anything, we fight harder because it seems no one ever listens to us. Certainly, the pundits say that they and the politicians they go to cocktail parties with are interested in our opinions. However, what they do is put words in our mouths and then pretend that's what we said we want. You want to be pissed off? Try listening to some mealy-mouthed conservative pundit saying that moderates don't accept abortion rights. It makes me want to hit someone. Especially when the polls show the exact opposite, but no one ever calls the pundits on it!

Please don't lump the vast majority of us moderates in with the fools who think that the Republican Party will address the interests of moderates. We moderates are the ones who voted for Clinton and Gore. We're part of that vast majority that's in favor of stem cell research. We're over a third of the country. You need us, and we need you.

[JeffR]

1. As an arch-leftist

Let me say thank you for this post. Well said.

:patriot:

[ArbustoBuster]

3. You guys pull us moderates along...

...telling us what we can do and why we should do it. It takes time, but we often go down the trails you blaze.

I note that we almost never go down the roads laid down by the conservatives. America becomes more liberal over time. The conservatives are fighting a losing battle, and I think they know it. They can only win by cheating.

[JeffR]

6. And the cheating is the most compelling reason

for us to circle the wagons!

[longship]

2. Without moderates, Dems lose every election.

The Democratic Party has historically done very well because we've always kept people of all political persuasions at the forefront of our party. Liberals, moderates, even some who might be called conservatives are welcome and enjoy the political stage together.

I am *very* liberal. However, I am very uncomfortable with any attempt to impose ideological purity on the Democratic Party, no matter whether that ideology is one perceived as liberal, moderate, or conservative.

There's room for all here. We can disagree; we can even get in heated debates. However, I love all of you equally.
:loveya: :grouphug:

Let's stick together. That's the way we win.

[durrrty libby]

4. I don’t think libs rant against you.

I can only speak for myself, and the type of moderates I loathe are the ones that enable the hard right nut jobs.

These particular types of so-called moderates are passive aggressive scum

They say they don’t agree with the wingnuts, yet vote along with them, and delude themselves into thinking their hands are clean because they are moderate.

They are the nastiest hypocrites.

As long as you’re not one of the enablers, you’re ok in my book.



:toast:

[GeorgeGist]

5. K & R

mod·er·ate - noun "One who holds or champions moderate views or opinions, especially in politics or religion."

[bvar22]

7. I HATE the labels.

Where do you stand on the issues?
Are you WITH the MAJORITY of AMERICANS?
Will you support a politician who continually votes AGAINST your economic interest simply because the talking heads on TV call him/her a "Moderate"?

1.65 percent say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes.

2. 86 percent favor raising the minimum wage (including 79 percent of selfdescribed "social conservatives").

3. 60 percent favor repealing either all of Bush's tax cuts or at least those cuts that went to the rich.

4. 66 percent would reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

5. 77 percent believe the country should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment.

6. 87 percent think big oil corporations are gouging consumers, and 80 percent (including 76 percent of Republicans) would support a windfall profits tax on the oil giants if the revenues went for more research on alternative fuels.

7. 69 percent agree that corporate offshoring of jobs is bad for the U.S. economy (78 percent of "disaffected" voters think this), and only 22% believe offshoring is good because "it keeps costs down."

http://alternet.org/story/29788 /

The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[ArbustoBuster]

8. Yep. Moderates and liberals are the mainstream...

...and the conservatives are way out on the fringes. They hold control only because of disproportional representation (tiny conservative states get a vote boost in the Electoral College versus huge liberal states because the small states get two senators just like everyone else) and because of electoral fraud.

[lostinacause]

16. I question the reliability of the statistics.

All the numbers seem a little high. Even if the numbers are correct it could be argued that the choices are made based on emotional responses and imperfect information. Take number 5, for example; taken literally this would mean no electricity, gasoline, cars, roads and so on. If numbers 6 and 7 was given in terms a choice between consequences the numbers would be much lower.

[Chi-Town Exile]

9. Great discussion. I have another question for you guys.

I considered myself Liberal before I started participating on this board. Now I realize I am a "Moderate" ... that is if I chose to put a label on myself which I really don't like to do.

But I need to know, where do Jews fit in on the "left?"

If we support Israel (meaning we want to see a safe, secure Jewish state but do not agree with everything the Israeli government does) and call for a healthy discourse of the situation without all the finger pointing, name calling, conspiracies, etc. we are called, Right-Wing trolls, war mongers, neocons etc. If we so much as dare to stand up for anything related to Israel we are accused of calling the other side Anti-Semites. And in all honesty I have called several posters out about being Anti-Semitic, even gone as far as to call them Jew Haters (to be correct Anti-Jew is probably the best label since these individuals like other semitic people) Unfortunately, some of these people are Anti-Semitic, the rest just don't realize they are using classic Anti-Semitic talking points and there are many that do want a frank discussion of Israel without a dog in the fight.

You must understand, for American Jews it is always hard to see where Anti-Semitism ends and Anti-Israel sentiment begins. Perhaps we are way too sensitive. We're touchy, I admit it since they were putting people like me in ovens not so long ago. That bugs me it really does.

My hero Mike Malloy savaged Israel the other night and was then flabbergasted when people sent emails calling him out about his vitriol directed at Israel. He called it nonsense and told us to get over the Holocaust. Perhaps he's right ... however, you really can't get over the Holocaust when discussing the Jewish state since its inception came as a result of how Europe treated its Jewish populations. (We can debate that fact forever.)

As Jews we realize we stand alone ... in the world, in politics etc. Unfortunately I see so many American Jews running into the arms of the right-wing because they buy into the Conservative crap about being supportive of Israel. Some Jews are one-trick ponies, Israel is their only barometer of where to line up. I'm not one of those people. I realize the only reason right wing morons support Israel is the "rapture." As Bill Maher so eloquently puts it, "They want Jews to DIE."

However, if I hold true to my Liberal values it would seem that requires me to become a self-loathing Jew just to fit in around here. I won't do that.

Any suggestions?

Flame away ...

[durrrty libby]

11. Well I won’t flame you and I don't have a clue what the

self-loathing thing is all about.

I don’t understand a lot of people here. It seems that many have some kind of agenda, but I don’t get it.

My philosophy is pretty simple. No human beings are better than others
and all deserve to live in peace and pursue self actualization.


Countries with great abundance should aid those lacking. However that aid should be for the people and not their gov’t

I keep reading here that the US gives Israel billions every year. I had no idea it was that much and I’d like to know why so much and what is it for?

Are people starving there like Africa?

In general, we should not be arming countries. Not only can that backfire, but it sends the wrong message to other countries.

No good comes from war and we need to work more at being great diplomats.

[w4rma]

17. Jews rock.

Note that the right-wing warmongerers running Israel, currently, aren't helping their country with their Bush-tactics of attack, attack, attack. It wasn't long ago when Israel and Palestine were on the verge of peace. And then the Israeli prime minister was assassinated by a lunatic right-wing Israeli. And then it wasn't long ago again when Israel and Palestine were on the verge of peace and then Sharon riled up the Arabs and the neo-cons took over the government.

[Vincardog]

10. By current definitions NIXON was a LIBERAL. Speaking for myself

I hate the NeoCon scum and all its' enablers. If you are against the FASCIST thugs who have seized control of our government welcome to the fight. If you are suggesting that I support "Middle Ground" candidates, everyone has a right to their opinion. I believe that given a choice between a real republican and a FAUX republican the voters will choose the real republican. Given the choice between a republican and a real democrat the voters will choose the real Democrat.

[ArbustoBuster]

12. I'm not suggesting that you vote for anyone.

I'm suggesting that refusing to listen to moderates, and refusing to consider their opinions when making political decisions, will lead to the Democratic Party losing every election forever.

I agree with you that given a choice between a Republican and a Democrat people will choose the Democrat. Especially if the corporate media allows the Democrat to actually put his or her real opinions forward, rather than putting words in the Democrat's mouth.

[Vincardog]

18. In the current climate your opinions sound fairly progressive.

Who is refusing to listen? My problem is with candidates who "Moderate" their message by moving it to the right endlessly seeking the mythical middle. Every time the pols on our side do that, the Rapture Right move the right side over two more spaces.

There is a difference between not listening to your opinion and wanting the "Liberal" politicians speak exclusively to the middle.

It is OK for the Radical Right wing nutz to energize their base right?
Who is speaking to energize the Left?

Who is speaking for Universal health care? Full Employment at a living wage?
Universal quality public education? Equal rights for everybody? Public financing of elections? Open Fair elections?

[LowerManhattanite]

13. Well said, sir...

I may take issue with certain politicians within the party, but not necessarily sub-groups within the party. Each Representative/Senator is an individual, and my opinions of each one is based on his or her own deeds and words. Your words are a welcome sight here at DU, what with all the sniping back and forth--and much appreciated. K&R! :)

[unkachuck]

14. moderates....

....are self-righteous and condescending to us progressives once in office....they need our support at the polls then once elected, they treat us like we're the crazy aunt in the attic whos' views need not be considered....

....how often do moderates holding public office ever champion progressive causes?....we're out here too, you know....

....and for thirty years, to gain our support around election time, you pull out that tired old anybody-but-XXXXXX bullshit....what's the difference between anybody-but-XXXXXXX bullshit and repugs 'be afraid, be very afraid' bullshit....nothing!....it's motivation through fear and it's not going to work any longer....

....I agree, we do need each other....but for far too long, us progressives have been coming up with short end of the stick....

[ArbustoBuster]

15. The short end of the stick won't get any longer...

...if the response of progressives to a moderate offering an olive branch is to insult the moderate.

What I believe you're seeing is fake moderates out there in Congress. Real moderates promote things like tolerance, understanding, and the advancement of human rights. Fake moderates make noises about these things and then vote with the Republicans when the rubber meets the road.

Please don't lump us moderates in with the faux moderates in Congress. We deserve better.

[depakid]

19. Anyone who enables Republicans

or who votes for and legitimizes Republican policies is not a moderate in my book.

Worse, they're the very people who've caused the Dems to lose 6 straight Congressional elections- and potentially a 7th this November.

The way I see it, either you support traditional Democratic values or you're an ally of the far right.

[Dr Fate]

20. BINGO! Supporting the far right is NOT "moderate" or "centrist"

THANK YOU!

We need to continue to point this out- you are not "moving to the center" when you ape Bush, you are moving to the right.

[Chi-Town Exile]

21. We may be talking about two different things here ...

I was talking about "moderates" in respect to myself and other people on this message board not the spineless moronic stupid asinine congressional "Democrats" that align themselves with congressional Republicans and President Asshat. For instance, Tom Daschle.

He was quite possibly one of the worst "Democratic" leaders the party ever suffered with. I see congressional "Democrats" that call themselves "moderates" as spineless cowardly wimps that worry so much about losing their spot in Congress rather than formulating a clear position that differentiates them from Republicans. They put their finger to the wind to see what the country is thinking ... then they take the WRONG position.

Guess I'm describing DINOS.

For the record, I don't consider myself a spineless wimp. I feel we need to embrace our Liberal values and stop the Republicans from making the word "Liberal" something negative. We need to sound different and act different. We need to stop being "Republican Lite."

BUT, I don't condone all out revolution (unless our rights were taken away and they started rounding EVERYONE up in interest of national security) so I'm not quite as Liberal as I thought I was.

[calico1]

22. You sound like a true Moderate.

I consider myself a Moderate on several issues and Liberal on some others. So I guess that makes me a left leaning Moderate? Who knows? The issue I have is not with people such as yourself. You sound very sincere and I agree that Democrats cannot win by kicking everyone out that is not totally Liberal on every issue. The concern I have is with the politicians representing us. By todays standards, 60's Republicans like Rockefeller, Goldwater and others would probably be considered Liberal or at least "Moderate." And they were Republicans. Back then people like Ted Kennedy made up most of the Party. It seems that the way Democratic politicians deal with Republicans is to "play nice" and give in more and more. Where Progressive values were once considered honorable and noble, its like they are embarrassed and apologetic about doing anything Progressive. The past few elections have proved that moving more to the Right to play nice does not make the Democratic party more "Moderate." It just makes it more Republican! They give in more and more and we get nothing back for it. I feel that some of the posters here are not angry at truly Moderate voters. I think what is expressed is anger and frustration at the constant capitulation of the Democrats in Congress. At least most of them. Our Party needs Moderates. I agree with that. But as far as our Representatives in Congress go, moving more to the right to not make waves is weakening our Party, not strengthening it. What Democrat in the 1960's could have guessed that in the 21st century there would be Democrats embracing things like school prayer and taking anti abortion rights stands? Its very frustrating.

[Tsiyu]

23. Thanks for those words

don't know why the OP didn't post his concerns to me directly, but perhaps he or she is shy so:

The OP is correct in stating that we need each other. That was my point: I am disgusted with those who wish to shut me up for "moderation's" sake.

I was insulted by a moderate. I did not begin by insulting him. But his words stirred me to think about what made him call me a "radical." I never thought of myself as a radical, actually.

I'll have to check, but I don't believe I said I hated anybody.

If you moderates really want to get along, open your eyes and your ears and your minds to what we are saying.

The same old-same old is getting us nowhere, is it?