Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Has the Rapture Already Begun?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Vyan Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:28 AM
Original message
Has the Rapture Already Begun?
Edited on Fri Jul-21-06 12:22 PM by Vyan
I ask this quite seriously and for completely different reasons than I postulated that the current mid-east conflict might lead to Armageddon. (Without either Ben Affleck or Liv Tyler in sight)

No, I simply watched the Tom Brokaw special on Global Warming last week and it's led me to this question.

I'm not particularly religious, nor am I a religious scholar. I'm not a scientist either. I'm just a person asking a question, and I think the answer could be quite frightening to all of us regardless of our theocratic persuasion when we simply look at the facts and science regarding the condition of our world and the very rapid changes that we face in the very near future.


First, lets define some terms - wether the End Times and the Rapture are in fact real, it has become quite clear that Global Warming is very real and leading this world toward something called The Sixth Mass Extinction.

Otherwise known as Death.

Still, there remain many like Peggy Noonan who would prefer to promote the idea that Global Warming is merely a "myth" and still a "subject of debate" among Scientists.

From Think Progress:

In today’s Wall Street Journal, Peggy Noonan asks why all the top scientists can’t get together and decide if global warming is real:

During the past week’s heat wave–it hit 100 degrees in New York City Monday–I got thinking, again, of how sad and frustrating it is that the world’s greatest scientists cannot gather, discuss the question of global warming, pore over all the data from every angle, study meteorological patterns and temperature histories, and come to a believable conclusion on these questions: Is global warming real or not? If it is real, is it necessarily dangerous?

Actually, Ms. Noonan, that’s already happened. It’s called the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), which involves thousands of scientists from over 120 countries who develop detailed reports on climate change. Their most recent report (from 2001) was reviewed by more than 1,000 top experts, including so-called “climate skeptics” and representatives from industry. Here’s what they concluded:

There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities.

The IPCC predicts that global warming will increase temperatures worldwide between 2.5 and 10.4 degrees Fahrenheit between 1990 and 2100 if no action is taken to reduce greenhouse gases. This amount of warming, according to the IPCC, could raise sea levels by as much as three feet. That’s extraordinarily dangerous.



Many people - but obviuosly not Noonan - have found the images of Manhattan underwater from "An Inconvenient Truth" chilling, but what about what's already occured?

Severe weather pattern changes have already turned Chinese Farmland into deserts, have bleached sections of the Great Barrier Reef, created massive floods in Indonesia and even New England, Islands in the South Pacific have literally begun to disappear while draught conditions have appeared in the South American Rain Forest, the "Lungs of the Planet". More and more Crops around the world will die from lack of water and the ever increasing heat, leaving massive dust bowls in their wake.

That's called Famine.

More from Think Progress:

Scientists say earth is losing species “faster than at any time since 65 million years ago” as a result of human activity.


The ability of Polar Bears in Greenland to feed succesfully prior to Winter Hibernation has been severely curtailed due to collapse of the ice sheath on which they hunt. As weather patterns change many species will have to migrate to new hunting/grazing grounds but may be blocked by geographic barriers - oceans, mountains and human civilization - which will prevent many from finding these new fertile ground. We're already seeing examples of this in Florida as Alligators from the Everglades have begun to migrate into human areas and attack people more and more frequently.

If this continues the food chain may eventually become broken. Many species will be face extinction, while the population of others will begin to explode dramatically, particularly insects and birds who may lose their natural predators. The likelyhood of diseases spread by these overabundant animals (West Nile Virus, Malaria, Bird Flu) will also increase bringing us ever closer to a global pandemic.

That's Pestilence.

Now all we need is a War...., particularly one right in the middle of the Holy Land.

Check!.


On the religious side of the equation, the first thing to note is that "The Rapture" isn't literally mentioned in the Bible (The entire idea was apparently invented by a 19th Century Theologian name John Darby). One possible source for this concept appears during a section on the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, John 20:19-21, which states the following:

19 Then on that same first day of the week, when it was evening, though the disciples were behind closed doors for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, Peace to you!

20 So saying, He showed them His hands and His side. And when the disciples saw the Lord, they were filled with joy (delight, exultation, ecstasy, rapture).

21 Then Jesus said to them again, Peace to you! as the Father has sent Me forth, so I am sending you.


This clearly is not exactly the Rapture that many who believe fervently in The End Times are speaking of. They are speaking of Revelations, and the moment when the true Children of God are called home - by the sound of Seven Loud trumpet blasts.


6Then the seven angels who had the seven trumpets prepared to sound them.

7The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down upon the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up.


The best description of a Ball of Fire mixed with Blood that I can think of, and have considered for some time - even mentioning it once when calling in to the Randi Rhodes show - is the ball of fire that the Twin World Trade center towers turned into on September 11th as they fell to the ground.

The sound of this first trumpet is intended to mark the beginning of The Tribulations, the seven years of darkness before God returns to reclaim earth as his kingdom.

If this is to be taken literally - which I don't - we are already in year number four of the Tribulations.

But we really get to the heart of the matter - the second trumpet.

8The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, 9a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed.


My first impression of this is that it sounds like a meteor striking the ocean, but the "seas ablaze" line could also describe the bleaching effect of gradual global warming, which could also kill many of the seas living creatures.

Some of this is already happening, and by all accounts is only going to get worse.

10The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water— 11the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.


"Wormwood" in Russian is Chernobyl. A nuclear accident which contaminated the air and water. This too, has already happened.

12The fourth angel sounded his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night.


If horn number three isn't Chernobyl, but is instead a limited nuclear exchange (bunker busters hitting Iran?), there would be dust thrown into the area to create a temporary "nuclear winter" which would fit this description.

Again, much of this is highly speculative - and many Christians disagree as to exactly what the Tribulations are and how they relate to the Rapture - but my own impression is that shit doesn't get really funky until after this point.

13As I watched, I heard an eagle that was flying in midair call out in a loud voice: "Woe! Woe! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the trumpet blasts about to be sounded by the other three angels!"


The good news is that we have some time left, both before supposed Rapture and before we reach the Rubicon of no return on Global Warming. There are things we can do now, even if people like Noonan remain deliberately ignorant of them.

Noonan also laments that, if global warming is real, scientists won’t tell us what we need to do in response. Actually, they’ve done that too.

If global warming is real, and if it is new, and if it is caused not by nature and her cycles but man and his rapacity, and if it in fact endangers mankind, scientists will probably one day blame The People for doing nothing.

But I think The People will have a greater claim to blame the scientists, for refusing to be honest, for operating in cliques and holding to ideologies. For failing to be trustworthy.


Actually, the blame should go to people like Peggy Noonan who give our leaders the political cover to do nothing in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence.


I myself am not entirely decided on the accuracy of any of the Revelation Prophesies. I see much of the Bible as parable, filled with stories and fables which were passed down orally for generations (and were embellished in each re-telling) which are intended to be instructional - not literal. Did Jonah actually live inside the belly of a whale? Was the entire earth covered in a flood that Noah managed to avoid and successfully protected enough animals inside an Ark to regenerate the entire biosphere?

I'm not saying there wasn't an Ark or that there wasn't a deluge -- some science tends to indicate there was -- but two each of every single living creature?

Are you fucking kidding me?

If you can believe that, you might was well believe in aliens named Xanthu who are coming to save us from ourselves... or something like that.

Still, Belief is a powefful thing and I don't intend to mock it - I only intend to point out that the lessons and value of books like the Bible may sometimes be lost if we look to closely and miss the broader point.

When St. John wrote Revelations, it was during a time when Christianity was a fledling religion battling against the broad power of the Roman Empire. Many historians have pointed out that his mentioning of "666" being the "mark of the beast" coincides with the manner in which Roman Currency under Ceasar was marked. His "Great Satan", which would eventually be overcome by the Kingdom of God may have very well been the Roman Empire itself. In this context, Revelations can be seen as a rousing adventure story - where there is much drama and conflict, but in the end the Good Guys win and receive their just reward of every lasting peace and happiness, while the bad guys get what's coming to them.

It's a like John Wayne Film during WWII such as "The Fighting Sea Bee's", although it could also be seen as deliberate propoganda as his later Vietnam era film "The Green Berets".

Heck, it's practically a Bruckheimer production. All we need now is for someone to write a book about it, then maybe find some under utilized, but highly "pure and virtuous", young star to make it into a film series. Somebody like Kurt Cameron.

Yeah... that would work great.

And while we keep everyone distracted, that pesky Global Warming problem will just continue to fester -- until finally we get what we really truly want.

Hell on Earth.

Hallelujah. Praise the Lord and pass the tax cuts.

But seriously - here's the zinger, if the Rapture is already occuring - and the people who've been called home were those in the World Trade Center Towers, those people who drowned and starved in the Gulf Region following Hurricane Katrina, and those people who were killed by the Indonesian Tsunami -- then most of the neo-con/christo-fascists who are the most desperate to bring on the End Times have already missed the exit ramp -- and are going to be stuck here, Left Behind with the rest of us.

Hmm, I guess the bad guys really are going to get what they deserve - to be trapped here in the "Tribulations" with the rest of us! And maybe if they realized this, they just might realize this entire "End Times" thing isn't such a good idea after all, ya think?

Vyan
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. If you use the word "Rapture" again
I will send you to the corner of the room

...for eternity!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. the "rapture" that is popularized today was made up in the 19th century
by John Darby.

so... no.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. It was 7 years ago
Don't tell the fundies. They are already quite mad enough.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vyan Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. But they love torture so much...
it only figures they should receive some.

Vyan
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Confronting their delusions is dangerous
and messy... all those exploding heads and all
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Howardx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
4. i just recently found out the rapture
myth dates from only 1800 or so, something called "the scofield bible" was the first time that particular myth was unveiled
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:35 AM
Response to Original message
5. When is Jeebus gonna switch on the Fundie-Vac
to suck those nutcases off our planet? ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vyan Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. That's the problem...
Fundies tend to clog the tube, so they're stuck down here with the rest of us Heathens.

Vyan
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Maybe if Jeebus switches to a Dyson ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
adwon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. OH MY GOD
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

THE FUNDIE-VAC!

On a less hysterical note, all I can picture is the scene from Spaceballs where they're sitting around chanting, "Suck! Suck! Suck!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hobbit709 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. In the hisory of this planet
nature has tried various things in lifeforms-we're just the latest experiment. It may be that intelligence is just another evolutionary dead end. Remember cockroaches have existed essentially unchanged for 350 million years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
9. First, you're reaching a lot
The WTC bombing, while awful for us to watch, was NOTHING on a planetary scale.

The only thing that would cause all the stuff in Revelations to happen would be a hail of large meteors.

Most biblical scholars view Revelations as a possibly ergotism fueled wet dream about the destruction of Imperaial Rome.

The whole nonsense about the rapture is a blasphemy that started in the nineteenth century by religious hucksters looking for a new angle to boost contributions.

Don't forget, this Armageddon nonsense appears full strength every time another century ticks over, and is raised to a fever pitch when a millennium ticks over.

We may be heading for another great dieoff. We're certainly overdue for a few things like pandemics. However, the buy bull's got nothing to do with it. Never underestimate the power of the confluence of bad luck, greed, and human stupidity.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vyan Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Of course it's reaching...
that's the point. Although I would argue that there are few single events which have had as wide a global impact as 9-11 from a socialogical and psychological stand point alone. It's ripples have led us into Iraq and now seem to be giving Isreal the green light to pound Hezbollah (and Lebanese civilians) into dust.

We'll be seeing the impact of that one event for the next century.

I agree that the Rapture is Religious Hokum. Again, that's the point.

Vyan
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
12. Well, Mannthrax Coultergeist hasn't disappeared ...
oh, wait, that might not be the best example to use ... :sarcasm:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
14. Actually, the "rupture" has begun...
it's the anti-rapture where sence and intelligence returns to society.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
15. Here's a little something I posted in the athiest forum...
I know this will piss off some people, so my appologies to you all up front. Enjoy!

Jesus the teacher...
Posted by Javaman in Atheists and Agnostics Group
Fri Jul 21st 2006, 04:42 PM
So I was thinking the other day, what would have happened if Jesus didn't get crucified?

I imagine him in some small town junior college teaching a course on miracles...

The class room is a buzz as students flit back and forth chatting, laughing and sleeping. In walks a middle aged, long haired, some what balding, glasses wearing, bearded man, in a rumpled white shirt and tie. His pants have chalk powder on them. Slightly stooped, he places his briefcase on the desk.

Jesus: Hi, everyone. A quick announcement before we get started. This is miracles 101, if you are here for walking on water, that's down the hall...

Two students quickly scurry from the class. Jesus smiles crookedly. Pulls out a piece of chalk and starts writing his name on the board...

Jesus: I'm Jesus Christ or Mr. Christ, okay?
(turns back to the class)

Jesus (cont'd): I'm not Jeebus, the J man, the holy dude, the son like no other, the man with the plan, mr. j, jc, son of god. No. I'm Mr. Christ. okay? Any questions?

Jesus glares around the room. He sits at his desk and opens his brief case and places on the desk: an apple, wrapped sandwich and the thermos. He then opens his note book.

Jesus: (cont'd)I'm going to call roll now. Oh and just a reminder, there are no tardies. I don't want any excuses, no notes: from you doctor, dentists, mother, father, uncle, priest, whatever. No tardies.

Nervous glances pass around the room among the students.

Jesus: (cont'd)Okay, Cane?

Cane: here...

Jesus (cont'd)Able?...Able? Hmmm, Cane, you and Able have the same last name, you related?

Cane: Ummm...no, ah, no we're not...

Jesus: (to himself) must have dropped. Okay, Mary?

Mary: here...

Jesus: Judus...

Judus: present...

Jesus: you seem familiar...

And Jesus continues through roll until done...

Jesus: (cont'd) okay, today we will start with something easy. Water into wine.

The gleam in the eye that inhabited a once younger version of Jesus has long since gone. He schleps about his work, making a half hearted attempt at trying to appear engaged in his lesson, but it's feeble at best.

Jesus (cont'd): sigh, okay, it's pretty straight forward. Take a simple glass of water...

John (student): excuse me...

Jesus: Yes, ahhhh....(consults his roll) John, is it?

John: yes, sir.

Jesus: go ahead...

John: are you okay?

For a quick moment, Jesus' life flashs before his eyes: leading thousands of followers, the sermon on the mount, the whole teaching a man to fish, curing lepers, LEPERS! What has become of him.

Jesus plops down in his chair. His middle aged mid drift pressing heavily against his belt. He gazes off. Looking out the window. He sees students walking to and fro to their classes; chatting, smoking, laughing and loving.

He refocus' his gaze upon the student.

Jesus: You know, I could have been somebody, I had a chance. I had a real shot. The world was in the palm of my hand. People hung on my every word. Now I teach in junior college...No offense.

Mary: what happened?

Jesus: what happened?

Jesus laughs. then stands up in anger.

Jesus (cont'd): I'll tell you what happened!!! Pilot!!! Pontius Pilot. That's what happened!!!
The guy was a ruthless bastard, killed people by the thousands just for kicks and when it was my turn to sacrifice myself for mans original sin, when it was my turn to represent all that was good, to turn the other cheek, he suddenly decides to show leniency!!! That was my moment to shine and he took it away!!!

Jesus plops down in the chair, resigned.

Jesus (cont'd): I was so ready. I even helped them make the cross. You know, I was to be crucified upright, not upside down like the rest. So now we pray to Dave Goldberg. Am I crazy or does that name not have the ring that JESUS CHRIST has?

The room is quiet. Jesus gets a look of total disgust on his face.

Jesus: You want miracles? Let me tell you about Miracles, they are all fakes. Hocus pocus, abracadabra, now you see it now you don't, a giant elaborate game of 3 card monty! Now get out of here!! And see if you can find Goldberg's image in a pile of bird droppings.

The class files out...

Mary, a cute young woman with long brown hair approaches Jesus...

Mary: Mr. Christ?

Jesus: (still looking out the window)yes?

Mary: I think, well, everyone still has a chance to turn things around...

Jesus turns to see Mary. His eyes brighten. He smiles crookedly.

Jesus: that's very nice of you, ahhh (quickly consults his roll), Mary.

She smiles at him in a sort of come hither way that only a young attractive co-ed can do.

Jesus: Would you like to talk about this over coffee?

end.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
16. If the rapture happens
I will eat a gallon of soupy shit from a hobo. That's how confident I am it's the misinterpreted product of a diseased mind. BTW, St. John was not actually the author of Revelation, though it's been attributed to him for hundreds of years. More recent scholarship points to this as a mis-attribution.

The more you read the Bible, study it as a document created by human hands, the more patently impossible it is. It is only due to the endurance of Christianity in our culture that we lend it any authority. The earliest books of the O.T. are really nothing more than a bunch of fairy tales invented by the shamen of a primitive people living in a dark and fearful time. The teachings of Jesus, while ethically invaluable, are pretty much ignored by all who call themselves Christians anyway.

Believe in Revelation? You might as well believe in prophesy by slaughtering an animal and reading its entrails, a practice also endorsed by the Bible. I'd rather believe in Leprechauns and fairies.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
theanarch Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. To quote Mark Twain on this point:
The Old Testiment is a collection of pointless stories about God before He got religion. The New Testiment is a collection of even more pointless stories about The Almighty after He got right with Jesus.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Vyan Donating Member (990 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Actually,
Edited on Fri Jul-21-06 06:38 PM by Vyan
as i said several times in the original post, I'm not a believer.

The point though is that some people *are*, and that some of them might be brought around to a more practical way of thinking of you put things to them in their own terms.

Such as: The Rapture is OVER, dude - you missed it, so how about trying to make the world better rather than worse for a change?

Vyan
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-22-06 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I did get that
you don't personally endorse belief in any of this silliness. When I was using the word "you," it referred to people in general, in the same sense that one might employ the word one as a pronoun.

I do dig your idea. I do harbor some doubts, however, about the ability to persuade people who believe in angels (i.e. supernatural people endowed by God with avian appendages) of anything.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 12:03 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. I gotta an angel!
;-)

Her name is Henrietta and she is our pet chicken. And, yes, she does have wings. The down side is she is moulting, and being in a chicken's body, produces lots of poop. But she does lay eggs. :rofl:

Seriously - angels don't have to come from anthropomorphic deities, they can appear in the oddest forms, and just offer love to those in need.

As to the Rapture, more fairy tale time. The NT is filled with parable and metaphor, and should be looked to for its ethical teachings. Unfortunately, Paul mixed in a bunch of elements from Hellenism and the mystery religions and made up a new mystery religion. James was the head of the true followers of Jesus, and he was executed by the Romans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 02:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. What is the fixation on Revelation???
It is a small part of the bible and there is more prophecy in the OT and some NT stuff that is far more reaching than revelation.

Discount one book all you like, but there is a lot more in the whole bible than that one book :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Alcibiades Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. Revelation is popular
Because it focuses on the righteousness of the elect and the damnation of the sinners. This appeals to people's innate sense of self-love and the Puritan within.

All that stuff about washing the feet of the poor and whores and stuff? You know, the core part of Christ's teachings? Not popular anymore. Much more fun to focus on the fate of the damned and the salvation of the elect! Praise Jesus.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 03:34 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. Patently impossible ...
Edited on Sun Jul-23-06 03:36 AM by RoyGBiv
If you read the Christian Bible as a historical document of varying degrees of quality and written largely in metaphor, sort of like the Iliad, it becomes much less patently impossible and much more like what it actually is: a historical account written largely in metaphor.

The Iliad, long thought to be pure fiction, helped lead archaeologists to the ruins of Troy.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hatrack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-21-06 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
20. No way - far too many assholes like Noonan & James Inhofe still here!
:evilgrin:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ndcohn Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 02:48 AM
Response to Original message
24. its already happened
as you pointed out, there have been 5 mass extinctions in earths history.
Armageddon HAS happened
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RoyGBiv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
25. No ...
Edited on Sun Jul-23-06 03:22 AM by RoyGBiv
Thanks for playing.

"The Rapture" is a myth, a single interpretation of various passages in the Christian Bible that could, because they are metaphorical, be taken to mean, literally, hundreds or thousands of things.

And as for the various incidents you list, pick me a period in history, any period about which we have some degree of documentary evidence of what was happening in the world at the time, which leaves you about 3 - 4000 years to choose from, depending on how you define "documentary evidence."

Do that, get back to me, and I'll repeat your list with examples contemporary to that time.

And on that note, a lot (*A LOT*) of Biblical scholars that aren't enraptured (pun intended) with their own dogma will tell you nothing in the Christian Bible is intended to be prophetic as we currently define prophecy. The stories that are used to suggest the concept of a rapture, for example, describe events taking place at the time these stories were written. The only thing prophetic about them is the tendency of history to repeat itself. They are, in keeping with the Biblical theme by using a metaphor, intended to teach a man who beats himself in the head with a hammer that doing this repeatedly is a bad idea, and that if it he continues to do it, he's going to suffer a severe injury or die.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Son Of Spy Donating Member (138 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-23-06 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
27. That's why Bush has been drinking
He found out it happened and he didn't get to go after all :D


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC