DU is resembling WWF more each day. What the fuck's up?

[Stinky The Clown]

All we need is the canvas mat, the ropes, the toothless audience, and the smarmy ring announcer with the moth eaten tux .......

Thread after thread after pathetic fucking thread. Someone says something they believe in and it gets slammed with every snarky-assed post imaginable. No debate. No reason. Just puke smilies and 'fuck yous'. Thread after thread with honest views by honest DUers and they get their asses handed to them in flames. Innocuous statements and innocent questions posted and they get shit in reply.

What ever happened to honest debate?

All we seem to see is long, spittle-flecked diatribes or drive-by slams.

Is there a full moon?

Have we been invaded by morons?

Have we been unable to buy food and are reduced to eating our own?

I know ... we all enjoy a hearty debate and we won't walk in lock step.

Fine. No one's asking anyone to do that. But I **do** see honest opinion by people I know to be honest and well intentioned just get chewed up and spit out. Its like Freeperville without the discipline.

How about a moratorium on that crap, huh? It does NOTHING to elevate the debate or to exchange ideas.

Just because someone supports Israel or Palestine or Lebanon does NOT mean they're the enemy. Just because someone favors or disfavors impeachment does NOT mean they're the enemy. Just because someone is more centrist or more left than you, they're NOT the enemy.

This is even worse than the villian du jour threads about our elected leaders,

Jayzus H Keerist on a Rubber Crutch, people. Give it a fucking rest.

And that goes for me, too.

[beam me up scottie]

1. I don't like it when people get killed.

[Stinky The Clown]

6. This is what I mean .....

Do you think ANYONE here is for death and mayhem?

Answer that **honestly**, not with a knee jerk or a snark. Because if you honestly think anyone here *wants* people killed, you're pretty deeply in need of help.

[beam me up scottie]

10. *sniff

All I wanted to do was post some pictures of kittens...

[Stinky The Clown]

15. Here's ours ... during the 04 campaign ......

She's a turncoat. The sign sez "Kill Arabs Dead. Security Cats for Bush .... because we're nervous".

[beam me up scottie]

28. A cold blooded killer if I ever saw one.

Here's mine doing their own WWF stunts in my kitchen:

[Stinky The Clown]

30. Did the white and tan one .....

lose that back paw? The tabby has some nasty looking teeth!

[beam me up scottie]

32. No, but most of his tail is gone.

We suspect that was done when he was being tortured by the terrorists from the Militant Miniature Doberman Freedom Fighters down the block.

[LittleClarkie]

62. Will a drunken cat do?

She couldn't take it anymore. Logged off, got herself a Bud, and turned on "Sex in the City"

[Union Label]

70. Oh thats horrible

How could you let a sweet kitty drink cheap beer.:toast:

[Viva_La_Revolution]

77. action photo...

[Warren Stupidity]

51. Actually yes there are a bunch of DU'ers here who are

all gung-ho go get 'em about the current war against Lebanon. How that is not 'for death and mayhem' is debatable, and I think we need to have that debate, loudly, unpleasantly, with everyone participating challenged to make their case and back their position. Perhaps amidst all the uproar and unpleasantness, in the mess and turmoil, the light of truth will shine.

Or we could all be nicey-nice and not talk about those issues that we violently disagree on and pretend that everything is comfy.

[Brian Stevens]

75. It is a last resort

but judging by the majority, not all, the majority of the posters, it is pretty damn close to it.

[MarkDevin]

7. Far left wacko!!! Far left wacko!!!

:sarcasm:

[beam me up scottie]

40. !

[Zhade]

73. THANK you.

NT!

[KyuzoGator]

2. I don't see the World Wildlife Fund analogy myself. nt

[beam me up scottie]

8. !

:D

[Stinky The Clown]

9. Cute

[MarkDevin]

11. I think he meant the WWE.

World Wrestling Entertainment, formerly known as the World Wrestling Federation.

[niallmac]

14. Ha! I know your comment adds nothing to the dialogue

but it was funny and one of the things I love about DU.

[Redstone]

3. Your opinion.

Which, of course, I respect, and will defend to the death your right to express.

Redstone

[amitten]

4. Ummm....it's really really really abnormally hot outside lately.

Rising temps = rising tempers, every time.

[MarkDevin]

5. I said something similar a few days ago.

My language, however, was somewhat less colorful than yours! :evilgrin:

[Stinky The Clown]

16. Colorful?

I was being nice. You should hear me when I cuss.

[Skink]

12. The Democrats resemble the WWF......

we talk tough but everybody knows it's faked.

[uppityperson]

13. my similar topic, different but along the same lines. Thanks husb

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1732639

[gratuitous]

17. Moratorium on crap, huh?

Sounds like you need a patented gratuitous brand bionic elbow drop off the top rope, pally.



Ohhh yeahhhhhh.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. Hehehe

What a gentle looking soul.

[nashville_brook]

23. please please go to I/P and say that

[lumberjack_jeff]

18. No snarky-assed spittle-flecked diatribes?

Now what the fuck am I supposed to do for entertainment?

I'll tone it down. In the future I'll shoot for semi-lucid polemics.

:hide:

[Stinky The Clown]

22. As long as you keep the spittle to yourself .....

.... the diatribes can be tolerated.

That spittle though ..... ewwww.

[LittleClarkie]

63. Eh, it's his problem

He's the one who has to clean off his monitor, after all.

;)

[norml]

20. There is a War

Leonard Cohen - There Is A War Lyrics


There is a war between the rich and poor,
a war between the man and the woman.
There is a war between the ones who say there is a war
and the ones who say there isn't.
Why don't you come on back to the war, that's right, get in it,

why don't you come on back to the war, it's just beginning.


Well I live here with a woman and a child,
the situation makes me kind of nervous.
Yes, I rise up from her arms, she says "I guess you call this
love";
I call it service.

Why don't you come on back to the war, don't be a tourist,
why don't you come on back to the war, before it hurts us,
why don't you come on back to the war, let's all get nervous.


You cannot stand what I've become,
you much prefer the gentleman I was before.
I was so easy to defeat, I was so easy to control,
I didn't even know there was a war.

Why don't you come on back to the war, don't be embarrassed,

why don't you come on back to the war, you can still get
married.

There is a war between the rich and poor,
a war between the man and the woman.
There is a war between the left and right,
a war between the black and white,
a war between the odd and the even.

Why don't you come on back to the war, pick up your tiny burden,

why don't you come on back to the war, let's all get even,
why don't you come on back to the war, can't you hear me
speaking?


http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Leonard-Cohen/There-Is-A-War.html

[Robbien]

21. Many of the posters are suspect

They are here to deliberately shut down all reasonable discussion on the ME and Israel.

It makes no difference whether they are a paid force, a part of the Lobby or a group of religious fundies, they are infesting all ME conversations all over the web.

[nashville_brook]

24. you noticed that too -- reality checks are very good things

[Stinky The Clown]

25. The ME is hardly the only kind of thread subject to this

Just tonight there are two threads .... one in favor the pursuit of impeachment and one against it. Neither of the OPs are dishonest or nutjobs. They simply have two valid but different opinions. Yet the snarks are seemingly wall to wall. The debate in both threads is conspicuous by its absence.

To be sure there are those intent on disrupting. Thjose of us who spend a good deal of time on DU know the posters who might be suspected of that ... or they out themselves pretty quickly when they engage in such antics. but that's not who I'm talking about. I'm talking about long time regulars. And we should all know better.

[Robbien]

37. I agree the snark is spilling over

into all the threads.

Remember there are two widely opposite opinions here of what a Democratic voter is. Usually these two opposing sides can deal with each other here at DU on civil terms, but the hightened emotions of all the death and destruction in the ME is breaking down the civil nature of many other unrelated conversations.

And the suspect posters just egg it all on.

[BrightKnight]

48. DU has definitely been infested

Somebody posts a hot and leading original post. A hand full of sock puppets fan the flames and disrupt any reasonable discussion. That is my impression.

In any case there is a flood of threads with a conspicuous lack of reasoned discussion.

[Dinger]

54. I Have Noticed That Too:

Lots of flamers with low post counts, and disabled profiles.

[cboy4]

26. Here's what friggen pisses me off . . .

When certain people post very, very controversial "thoughts" ....... however, when people respond, the original posters don't say a word as though they're just sitting back and :popcorn:'ing.

There is no debate!!!

That is a huge red flag that the OP's sole intention is to incite......to cause shit.....to divide the DUers.

That's what's bullshit, IMO.

[Stinky The Clown]

27. I agree with you about that kind of thread

And within threads ... a drive-by post and then they're gone. They post shit and never defend it.

[LincolnMcGrath]

29. I challenge you to a duel!

[Stinky The Clown]

31. You're on, pal ......

...... biodiesel at 20 paces.



(Peter Bell and Willie Nelson)

[LincolnMcGrath]

34. May the spoils go to the victor!

[Stinky The Clown]

36. Wow ......

I didn't know you had an AOL homepage.

Nice nipples, by the way.

[beam me up scottie]

38. ACK!!!

People, please, how about some warnings before you post womb-shriveling pictures?

[LincolnMcGrath]

41. lol

:rofl: womb-shriveling pictures :rofl:


:hi:

[Union Label]

71. Oh shit, its uncanny how much he looks like the "SITH LORD"

[snowbear]

33. World Wildlife Federation wouldn't be such a bad thing...

But yeah.. there is a lot of this --> going on.

Can't we all just get along?

[Behind the Aegis]

35. Debate.

It seems to be a lost art on-line. It does happen sometimes, that a thread will actually break out into an informational exchange, as opposed to a flame-fest. The fact is that everyone posting is human, and with the exception of one poster I can think of, I have seen quite a few of the "major players" have a 'violent' outburst.

There are many ways to "shut down" a conversation. One way is even demonstrated in this thread. Having an opposing opinion should not be an automatic "death knell" for the poster. Just because someone has an opposing opinion doesn't mean they are a "kool-aid drinker," a "paid operative," or a "freeper."

[TygrBright]

39. Well, dang, H2S, I was just...

....gettin' out my "Round Card Girl" outfit(s) to try on...

disappointedly,
Bright

[Stinky The Clown]

44. Huh?

Was that **you**?

[TygrBright]

45. Sure, can't you tell?

LOL.... Of course, that's an old photo ::wink-wink::


prevaricationally,
Bright

[Erika]

42. Posters on freerepublic boast about getting a thousand posts

here, and then causing all kinds of havoc. I think this has been done in the Israel/Lebanon contest. Certain posters, with a high count, send prickles up my back.

They've been borderline until this ME issue. We also have new posters who now ssem adamant about giving their thoughts against Lebanon.

[Kixel]

43. Who has that kind of time?

Maybe if they'd pay attention to what they read here, they wouldn't go back to the scary place...free republic is creepy. Maybe just sad that people can be that narrow minded?

I usually just read and don't post, but I have to agree-it's been more than a little scary lately. I love a good debate, but to insult people is another story. None of us have the perfect answer, and it is through debate that we will find it. If we are too full of anger to listen to each other, it won't lead to progress.

[beam me up scottie]

46. You should post more often.

I like your perspective.

[Kixel]

76. Thank you...

That may be the best compliment a person can receive!

[snowbear]

47. The FREAK Republic brain-dead members......

..do nothing but sit on their ample asses forking mega donations to their sickly leader JimRob.



That disgusting place is the complete OPPOSITE of this site.

It looks like a 6th grader created it because if you notice, the only upgrades they put into it are ensuring that the modem hums along.

Maybe those over here that hang out there can confirm this.. but I heard Jim Robinson has never donated one single penny to ANY charity or cause, and never financially supports GOP candidates.

He's running a freakin' mindless cult!

[rman]

50. It's a vocal minority

that sometimes manages to create the impression that their opinion is DU mainstream.
Polls and recommendations give a different picture of DU opinion.

[wiley]

49. Sounds like Democracy in action to me

When someone jumps on another poster call them on it. Ask them to explain why they are so passionate or cruel or unyielding. I've had my opinions handed back to me with a steaming pile of insults and really offal comments. These people actually helped me to see things from a different perspective, and I changed my position on a few issues. It wasn't fun or entertaining or supportive, but maybe getting the point through to me that Israel had completely destroyed the infrastructure of a country and the lives of at least a million people is more important than my feelings or comfort level. I still support Israel and blame Hezbollah, Hamas and Syria and Iran for starting this, but I get the idea that there were probably 10 better ways to accomplish their goal instead of their leaders going into full war mode. It's complicated because people and countries have been doing things like this forever.Blaming Israel or the US for everything beforehand or based on history in the recent Mideast crisis just pushes everyone into corners like trapped animals fearful for their lives.

If you can't deal with the sometimes brutal exchanges on DU, you don't belong on the front lines fighting the corrupt, shameless, by any evil means necessary, snarky, lying, greedy Republicans who control our government. But you are as important and indispesable as those with hardened armor. I know the toxicity turns alot of people off, but just maybe they'll realize that the level of toxicity, and the can't wait until tomorrow emergency of what is happening in this country IS the current level of political discourse in this country.

So, thanks for your post. The repeated headless dead baby videos and posts had almost driven me away. Does DU have guidelines for the level of passion and anger and defensiveness and outrage engendered by such things? How about guidelines for people who have lost family, or friends as a result of terrorists groups actions being accused of such things by obvious biased manipulation or ommission of facts? It's arough, complicated and dangerous world. The Republicans have established a take no responsibility for any crimes reality in this country. So, some of us have been enraged for 6 years or more. I've apologized for some of my frank or mean comments, and I try not to do it but the pointed stick I get stuck with several times a day makes me want to lash out. And I am in a constant state of profound grieving and mourning for my country. Can you understand my short fuse? It keeps me alive and out of prison.

[Stinky The Clown]

52. Thanks for putting some thought into your post .......

Brutal exchanges with fact and opinion are perfectly okay, it seems to me ..... so long as they don't just attack the poster with whom you disagree. There was one where a poster did not agree with the OP and after some heated and intractable debate, said flat out that the poster was calling for a second extermination of the Jews. That was made more ridiculous - and particularly hateful - since the poster wasn't advocating for **anything** and simply asked a question which the responder interpreted all on his/her own to be supportive of the Arab side of the equation. That sort of nonsense adds nothing but a further coasening of the debate.

But that, perhaps, can even be excused because its about the intractable Israel/Arab debate. What caused me to make this post was the widening nature of such nonesense to posts about topics completely unrelated to the ME. (I won't even go into the superheated 'my guy' and 'candidate war' threads .... they're just plain stupid and more akin to a high school kid rooting for the home team.)

My concern is the increasingly widespread devolution of debate to hate.

You mention the need for a thick skin both to be active on DU, and more importantly to fight the bastards in the real world. You're right. And I have as thick a skin as anyone. Maybe thicker. I'm not really personally offended by very much at all and am quite able to dismiss as assholes those who resort to the antics I decried in the OP. But this isn't about me ... or you. It is about the overall tone of the discourse - which is serving little more than to stifle debate, not enhance it.

On a side note, there was a time not long ago when I sorta kinda privately suspected that certain DU poseters (usually the more prolific or more outspoken or more controversial ones) were being specifically targeted by outside disruptors. Of late I've started tracking the other posts of the people I suspect of this - both in my threads and in the threads of others. I am reasonably sure they are, in fact, targeting certain posters. Its almost as if its an orchestrated effort.

Anyway ... enough rambling on my part. I generally agree with you ....

[wiley]

61. Why they do it.

On a side note, there was a time not long ago when I sorta kinda privately suspected that certain DU poseters (usually the more prolific or more outspoken or more controversial ones) were being specifically targeted by outside disruptors. Of late I've started tracking the other posts of the people I suspect of this - both in my threads and in the threads of others. I am reasonably sure they are, in fact, targeting certain posters. Its almost as if its an orchestrated effort.

I couldn't agree with you more on that. I think there are several groups doing it. Paid consultants for a Party, candidate or issue lobby. Campaign consultants looking to see the response to a certain post to either test drive their stance or figure out what their stance is. People in other countries or living in the US who wish to agitate people either for or against US foreign policy. Single issue people who want to generate action around their sole issue. Buttholes who get off on or who feel they are somehow contributing to the health of this country by attacking those who are not sympathetic to Neo-conservative ideology - typically rigid and limited mindset types whose greatest aspiration is to be the one who can be counted on to take down yard signs and drop sensationalist lies that appeal to media rubber neckers and the morons who actually believe it when Ann Coulter says that Bill Clinton is gay.

More, too. Of course, people of no particular political persuasion who are desperate for human interaction, especially as a means to a therapeutic outlet. Cheap therapy you know? People who just want to be affirm their right to be assholes. The issue or post is irrelevant to them. And, people who are trying to save their jobs, regardless of what candidate or media outlet they work for. Keep your wits and exposing them is like finding easter eggs in a software program.

Then there is a core of incredible people who really want to discuss the issues and offer perspectives and propose solutions, or just learn about something they really don't know about in depth. Good people who are overwhelmingly Democrats, but sometimes Independents and enlightened Republicans. The fact that there are some groups of them, say like the ten people who will start or participate in a John Edwards for President thread, can be annoying and pathetic, but seeing what someone has to do in this country to get elected I just hide threads like that. I'll read them after November 7th. Or maybe not. Some people just need threads to show to the boss, whoever that is.

But I do go on...

[Totally Committed]

53. For better or worse,

This is absolutely true:

If you can't deal with the sometimes brutal exchanges on DU, you don't belong on the front lines fighting the corrupt, shameless, by any evil means necessary, snarky, lying, greedy Republicans who control our government. But you are as important and indispesable as those with hardened armor. I know the toxicity turns alot of people off, but just maybe they'll realize that the level of toxicity, and the can't wait until tomorrow emergency of what is happening in this country IS the current level of political discourse in this country.

TC

[dave123williams]

55. But....the World Wildlife Federation is an excellent organization! :-)

[Catchawave]

56. WWF...World Wildlife Federation

They sued to take those initials back :) It's WWE now.

And I still loathe "phone banking" :hi: Hopefully I responded enough to that thread to suit your :popcorn: theory :rofl:

Yours in "Jayzus H Keerist On a Rubber Crutch" :loveya:

:yoiks:

[Stinky The Clown]

57. I didn't know about that WWF/WWE lawsuit and initial change

See .... even clowns are educable! :)

[sabbat hunter]

58. actually yesterday

it was a new moon. however mercury has been in retrograde most of the month, which could explain a lot about communication issues. mercury will come out of retrograde on the 28th, be in direct on the 30th.

[ChiciB1]

59. Just Offering Am Opinion About This Phenom.... I think So Many Of

us here at DU are simply venting our frustrations because of the lack of leadership and representation of our so called Democrats. And THEY are all over the lot it seems to me. I find it so hard to figure out which way they are blowing on any given day, so therefore I find myself cranky and out of sorts. Not to mention feeling lost and depressed.

I truly want to stay UNITED, but I'm seeing more days that I'm confused than days where I'm focused. We are eating our own because of this, IMHO! I don't want to fight with anyone here at DU but there are times when I feel we are whistling past a grave and I just want to give up!!

[Fozzledick]

60. Feels to me more like an anti-war rally that's been hijacked

by a Stalinist front group with a pro-war against Israel agenda.

[leftofthedial]

64. you meet me in the cage of death, pal

and I'll rip your heart out!

:spank:

[Joe Fields]

65. This is why I'm spending more time in the lounge...friendlier.

[Protagoras]

66. Seems like it's always cyclic...depends on what's going

that month. Over the last few years I've seen this happen around every election or any time someone raises the issue of the Death Penalty, DLC or Smoking...then suddenly we have our own civil war. After a while it settles down. Then Bush shoves his head up his ass again and we're all off to the races again.

I notice the pattern because each time it gets hot I eventually get burned out enough that I stop reading for a couple weeks. And then I come back and find that I'm again interested and stimulated by the interesting conversations. Some of it is the ebb and flow of emotions on the boards...and some of it is probably the change in perspective of the individual reader.

[Chi-Town Exile]

67. That's why I'm taking a break ... can't handle all the negative

energy.

It's not good for the soul.

[alcibiades_mystery]

68. Aaaah'm the Macho Myan alcibiades_mystery, eeeyeah

You bring that I/P debate into MY HOUSE, eeeyeah, and there's gonna be one of us left standing, and the Macho Myan alcibiades_mystery DON'T. GO. DOWN. Eeeyeah.

[Zodiak]

69. Here's my wrestler

Say one word about being a Joe Liberman fan, and I will send the high-flying superfly after ya.

[ray of light]

72. ...

[AtomicKitten]

74. Sometimes the remedy is ...

[WildEyedLiberal]

78. WTF is that a Hitler donkey?

It kind of looks like it has Hitler's face.

[fuzzyball]

79. Right on....I miss JACINTO (may be sic)

He was the most prolific debator on DU. Never ever used
profanity in his posts.

[Algorem]

80. must hammerlock the pencilnecks