They volunteered, fuck em

[BOSSHOG]

That in a nutshell is how "conservatives" view the 4,000+ Soldiers who were told they were coming home but won't because, get this, MORE TROOPS ARE NEEDED IN BAGHDAD. And rumsfeld chimed in, "they'll just have to get on with life."

Besides they'd probably die in a car wreck if they weren't in Iraq and most of them are faking PTSD. And don't forget they volunteered so they are getting what they want.

Cantcha just feel the compassionate love from the chickenhawks?

[nam78_two]

1. Draft the twins and Mary Cheney /nt

[ShortnFiery]

7. Oh don't forget to get an MP uniform on Mary's Sister LIZ eom

[tridim]

2. I know exactly what I'd do if I were one of those soldiers n/t

[bigscott]

3. mary cheney?

I mean I hate the terrorists as much as the next guy - but Mary Cheney?????

[progdonkey]

4. I know I probably don't need to ask this, but...

did Rumsfeld really say that?

That's light years past "you go with the army you have."

What a worthless fucker.

[BOSSHOG]

9. Yes he did

It was at the end of a very rambling rumsfeldesque attempt to answer a question.

[acmejack]

5. Yeah, I sure do.

The College Republicans'll be much more gung ho and quite a bit braver than these chickenshits doing the fighting now in twenty years, too! Just like Saxby Chamblis was to Max Cleland, there are too many to list here.

[welshTerrier2]

6. the insanity of the occupation

the insanity cannot be measured solely on the impact on the troops and their families ...

as a country, we are paying a devastating price for continued operations in Iraq ... our military is stretched to critical levels ... the cost may already have exceeded a staggering $300 billion and there's no end in sight ... some have suggested a final "tab" could be between $1 TRILLION and $2 TRILLION ... US prestige and credibility in the world has been eviscerated ... our national soul and any hope for any kind of national unity is gone ... and none of this addresses the impact of the occupation on the Iraqis ... even if all these factors could be overlooked, the bottom line is that nothing good will come from our continued occupation ... we just can't get there from here ...

compassion for the troops and an appreciation for their service, whether volunteer or otherwise, is a critical factor in assessing the occupation; unfortunately, the devastation the occupation has and will continue to cause reaches far beyond those engaged in battle ...

[acmejack]

8. These people do it for the money!

In some cases, usually the Navy and the Air Force, the technical training. But there are some really lucrative bonuses available and some promises of decent educational and future medical benefits. It is especially a magnet for young desperate couples...

[BOSSHOG]

10. And if you serve in a combat zone

your pay is tax free and you get combat zone exclusion pay. But none of that should be as important as an end of tour flight home.

[Lars39]

16. An economic draft is what it amounts to in some instances.

[Dr.Phool]

20. Future medical benefits MY ASS

They promised me VA healthcare when I enlisted in 1969 during Viet Nam.

Last month I applied for a VA health card after my health insurance was terminated.

They said, "Fuck You".

[acmejack]

25. Totally relate to that, my friend.

They are overwhelmed, underfunded, and being screwed by political lackies such as ex RNC Chairman Nicholson. So everyone is getting jerked around with servcice connected conditions. They closed the Pain Mangement Clinic at the District VA Hospital with No Notice At All! to any of the Physicians in the surrounding clinics. People with pending appointments were just left in the cold. They (some assholes in DC) have determined the Doctors were over prescribing pain meds so now you can't get anything stronger than an aspirin. Amazing, people mwho were shot and blown up are now in pain, don't want any of them maybe getting a buzz at the same time, not on Sam's dime!

It has gotten to the point where I have submitted a request for my latest imaging & I am taking it to a civilian. I will pay, I was told to make an appointment to see my GP at the VA would require until December.

[underpants]

11. They strike me as being corrupt greedy payday loan schiesters

Oh no too late now YOU SIGNED THE CONTRACT! You should have read the contract! Didn't you read the contract??? (laughs and walks away).

This is based in their "improving your business acumen" as establish by LEwis Powell in his 1972 memorandum to the Chamber of Commerce.

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_accountability/powell_memo_lewis.html

Its all about money and they mean EVERYTHING! The K Street Project was nothing new in their circles it is how they think governing works.


You should have seen Bolton and Sen. Lugar yesterday talking about how much money the US contributed to the UN and how those who only paid 17% voted against us. The nerve of those people!

[blondeatlast]

41. "Payday loan shysters;" perfect analogy. nt

[JuniperLea]

12. That pisses me off! Talk about spin!

Yes, they all volunteered. They volunteered to protect our country. They volunteered knowing that their Commander in Chief would use them only as a last resort and only to defend our country. They volunteered for a term of service; a term certain. The National Guard volunteered to protect their individual states in times of need. Yes, they all volunteered to serve their country and it was an honorable thing to do.

The way they are being used is the absolute opposite of what is stated above.

Plus, they have their lives on the line every day for no other reason than for a handful of people to make a ton of money and to obtain a disgusting amount of power.

They are in no way being used for what it is they volunteered.

[xxqqqzme]

13. Cindy Sheehan said that people said that 2 her

about Casey - but Casey volunteered in 2000 when Clinton was still president - many of the troops being re-deployed or extended (or whatever the military term is) joined BEFORE the war lords seized power 2 invade and occupy oil rich countries. Many NEVER volunteered for this hell. And exactly how was enlisting in the Guard sold to these recruits? - 'Oh, you know one or two weekends every now and then; little extra cash for something special; that new baby on the way....' Many, many, many did not - to paraphrase rummy - volunteer for the army they got!

[City Lights]

22. Casey reenlisted in 2004.

Casey Sheehan enlisted in the Army in 2000 at age 20. The country was at peace. When he was asked to re-enlist four years later, he knew that he would probably be sent to Iraq. He re-enlisted anyway.

http://www.tampatrib.com/News/MGBUP137LCE.html

[kestrel91316]

14. Uh huh. It's called "supporting the troops".

[RebelOne]

15. "They'll just have to get on with life."

Well, some of them just may lose that life.

[galileo3000]

17. A different view of conservatives

While my republican friends and I may disagree, we both love and respect our military. Since I have conservative friends that I generally care about, on behalf of them, I apologize for any transgrievances that they or their associates may have done.

Some of you describe conservatives with such jaded terms. However warranted, I'm convinced such views undermine our causes. All relationships contain failings. If we truly believe that peace is vital to survival, I think we must be strong, patient, persistant, and forgiving. Peoples minds can change, but not through verbal provocations that border on violence.

"I want to change their minds – not kill them for weaknesses we all possess." M.K. Gandhi

I will run tonight and meditate on this.

- galileo

[Skittles]

19. f*** them

if your friends are still supporting a piece of SHIT lying chickenhawk asshole who LIED HIS WAY INTO A WAR, they can all go to HELL

[galileo3000]

24. Peace to you Skittles

I know that your anger is fierce and can be justified. I'm convinced by the lessons of history that we can fight, provoke, and win, by focusing on the strength of our causes. If we give into the despair, by throwing verbal bombs at someone for committing a thought crime, we offer no path of reconciliation to our enemies, and there will be no peace. Many of the more conservative friends I have served, or are serving, in the military. We cannot grow in influence by being unapproachable vipers who are ready to strike.

I am grateful that our cause has such strong people of action, because there is much work ahead, and we need that strength.

Peace
- galileo

[BOSSHOG]

27. I am of a like mind as Skittles

and I am (as a retired Swabbie) proud to say she cusses like a Sailor, and that's a complement. She mentioned that bush lied us into a war. Also consider that he deserted his military unit to avoid a drug test. And now he needs to increase the troop level in Baghdad because he failed to lead in the past. How do you expect those who served in uniform to react to this? And Skittles might not tell you, but I will, she's a veteran and I'm proud of her.

[Skittles]

33. AW, thanks BOSSHOG

I am super proud of all of us Democratic veterans....I really get tired of people assuming all those who serve and who have served believe in conservative garbage

[Skittles]

32. I don't give a crap if they are serving in the military

I served in the military, and I was never brainwashed into believing conservative bastards are honorable

[MH1]

21. So, will your republican friends join up?

Or are they already in the service?

[BOSSHOG]

23. I do not believe that any "conservative"

respects or loves our military. Our kids in uniform make "conservatives" feel good about themselves for no apparent reason. They see pictures of tanks and aircraft carriers and get hardons, and seeing pictures is the closest they will get because the "conservatives" I know "haven't served yet." "Relationships?" I recall george bush in 2000 blathering about changing the tone and he sure did. Liberals got bludgeoned for everything, until recently. We are sick and fucking tired of getting bludgeoned. There are a lot of proud veterans here at DU. I served in a combat zone and retired from the Navy and yet was told in 2002 that I should join the Army to show my love of country since I opposed the war in Iraq; and I was told to do that from someone who has never served in the military. And you don't need to apologize for anyone about anything. If my knees were not so fucked up I'd love to join you on that run.

[galileo3000]

26. Thanks BOSSHOG

I understand (or at least I think I do) the high level of dissatisfaction and that is why I run. It does help.

Peace

[Vickers]

38. Run down to the recruiter's office...I did.

:eyes:

[Zhade]

29. No. At this point, if someone supports b*s* and his policies...

...that person is either evil, or mentally deficient.

Those types desire our elimination, not our cooperation. There is no peace to be made with them until they realize on their own how wrong they are to support what they do.

[galileo3000]

34. Further admission

I realize that admitting I have conservative friends seems to be the kiss of death around here. So, then to admit that I have very conservative parents that I love deeply must either mean that I am also either stupid or evil. I am not in habit of giving up on someone just because I disagree with them, even if they want me dead. I believe that people can change and grow through compassion, work, patience, and persistencee. I'm sure this may come across as naivete, but I have made friends in my life out of enemies and I have seen people change. But if we demonize those we disagree, how will we ever overcome our own emotional responses to convince those willing to listen to another point of view? I have never earned the trust of anyone by threatening them with the hope of their suffering. In my opinion this kind of rhetoric is pernicious and even dangerous.

- galileo
Epure Si Mueve

Thank you both for your service. I have no military experience myself and I am grateful to those who make such sacrifices.

[BOSSHOG]

35. I truly accept your point of view

however, I must ask you to think about our current situation and how we got here. Was it because liberals were demonizing those opposed to their points of view and not using compassion and patience? It is my experience of events over the past 25 years that the answer is no. Conservatives have built a network of hate radio, newspapers chock full of disinformation and outright lies and fox news exists purely to demonize those who disagree with conservatives. The white house has men on the payroll whose sole job is to trash democrats with gusto. Have a liberal write a letter to the editor and the right wing talking point machine will crank up with numerous responses which don't address the issue and is full of spin and vitriol but nothing resembling factual data. May I suggest that the emotional response from the liberal community is a reaction?

Please love your parents deeply and forever. I don't think you are stupid or evil. My parents were rather apolitical but both are in another universe now. Surely you think that the rehetoric from the right is also pernicious and dangerous. I'm past the caring stage. I look forward to the next civil war, when once again, conservatives will get their butts kicked because conservatives do not have the best interests of our country or our constitution at heart.

I welcome you to DU and look forward to your future posts. You are an incredibly level headed, sane and loving human being and are needed here to balance rants such as mine. Ironically you are using the name of a man who was persecuted by Conservatives because he was right.

[galileo3000]

40. It is because of our current situation...

that I have joined. All progressive movements have always inspired fear throughout history. I do not want a civil war. We cannot allow ourselves to be provoked into any such thoughts. If fear and violence are the sources of our power, and our only goal is to hit back, our desire for peace has no meaning. We have so many strong voices who know how to stir the passions of others. But there in lies the danger. We can be easily de-railed.

If the progressive movement is to assume power, then we must prove worthy of it. That means we have to be prepared to forgive those who fear us.

That said, I do think that it is a time for action. I think what is needed is new form of protest that will inspire the courage and strength in others. If we can protest and benefit our fellow man in the process, I think we could undermine the "fear of our movement" spouted by conservative pundits. I will run today, meditate on this, and let you know if I think of anything.

Peace, Love, and Support through the ether to you.
your brother,
- galileo

P.S. below is a quote from Gandhi. It is one of my many favorites that I often tap when I need courage.

When I despair, I remember that all through history the way of truth and love has always won.
There have been tyrants and murderers, and for a time they can seem invincible. But in the end they always fall. Think of it –
always. - Gandhi

[CAG]

39. "we both love and respect our military": No conservative chickenhawks

do NOT love and respect the military. Saying they love and respect the military is NOT equivalent to loving and respecting the military. Conservatives "say" lots of fuzzy warm things, but don't mean them.

Consider how they claim to "love" the military. They take AWOL W and "I had other priorities" Cheney and "I had an anal cyst" Limbaugh and "God-knows-what-other-excuses" Kristol, Hannity, Coulter, Chambliss and act like these are true patriots for wanting to invade and occupy a country that had NOTHING to do with 9-11, and who seem to be SALIVATING for the excuse to send more of our boys and girls to Iran and Syria, while staining people WHO REALLY DID STAND IN FRONT OF BULLETS FOR YOU AND ME; Murtha, Kerry, Cleland, McCain, Powell, Gore (OK, he didn't stand in front of bullets, but he did go over the Nam while W sipped champaigne in texas), and challenge their war hero status and their patriotism. This crap slanders the name of every veteran with similar experiences (ie, evidently didn't get shot up enough to be a TRUE war hero, according to these lower than life RW scum).

Next time they spout their LOVE for the troops, ask them about what they know about veterans benefits, or soldier's pay, or how many times FREAKIN RESERVISTS have been called up to go to Iraq, or how many Iraqi women and children have died; first from our sanctions and second from our bombs, or how much of THEIR money went to some Saudi sheik who then passed it onto Al queda or Hezballah over the course of a year while they drove their 13 MPG SUV's and hummers, and then finally ask them, JUST HOW MUCH MORE MONEY DO YOU PLAN TO GIVE TO YOUR BUDDY BIN LADEN, SO HE CAN BLOW UP MORE OF YOUR COUNTRYMEN!!!!

[BOSSHOG]

43. Thank You CAG

Your post is very powerful and humbles this veteran who does love and respect or military as well as the constitution.

[CAG]

44. Thanks for your kind words. You know, if the chickenhawks & their follower

s STILL can't see their utter hypocrisy, then they're either complete ignoramuses or they simply don't give a crap about other people, or both, and thats the bottomline.

I wish more veterans would just get fed up like yourself, some of them would get up and say, "gosh, you know what, Kerry has more bulletholes than I have, and Murtha got shot at a little bit more than me, and I have more limbs right now than Max Cleland, what does that make me according to the chickenhawks????"

[Skittles]

18. YOU KNOW IT BOSSHOG

I'm consoling a despondent soldier in Baghdad via email; he is very upset, was looking forward to coming home...am sending him a big phone card, the poor thing....I am sick of these chickenhawk conservatives abusing our troops

[Generator]

28. Two weeks a year and a weekend every month

wasn't that what some of them signed up for? What a nightmare.

[LittleClarkie]

30. "Support the troops"

They don't know the meaning of the words.

[napi21]

31. I heard a guy on Ed Schultz yesterday say something similar.

I said he was tired hearing guys complain because they had to do the jobs they were hired to do, and being PAID to do!

He was responding to a lady who called earlier confirming that her nephew had received information that his return home was being canceled, even though all their equipment had already been shipped, and now they had to figure out a way to get it back! It is his 3rd deployment to Iraq, and he's already been there 1 year on this tour.

Even Ed jumped on his case over that comment!

[Blue_In_AK]

36. More here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1765688&mesg_id=1765688

[MODemocrat]

37. That's what they call supporting the troops? They're hell bound

Slimeball-Scumbags, all of them.:thumbsdown: :grr:

[0007]

42. They've got real compassionate love!