Best approach for Democrats to win future elections?

[guardian]

I've been wondering what is the best way for Democrats to take back control. There seem to be two main lines of thought on this:

1. Stick to our guns: i.e., go more left
2. Be more 'moderate': i.e., compromise

So what is the best approach? Be more in your face. Be more activist. Take no prisoners. Scorched earth approach? Get the message out at all costs. Shock the moderates/undecided into doing the right thing. Or compromise? Be less strident. Adopt some more right wing messages to attract moderates. We know that 20% of the population (i.e., cons & rethugs) are looney and will never see reason.

Part of me thinks the issues are too important to compromise. We worked too hard over the last 30 years to win some small victories. And seeing them evaporate/stolen away hurts too much. And some issues like global warming are just too dire to allow society to ease back on anything.

But then again, I feel we must win at all costs. If nothing else to stop the neocons from destroying even more. Or at least slow them down until the people wake up--even if it means compromising our values.

I'm sitting the fence. Convince me.

[sam sarrha]

1. without Voting reform.. nothing you do will matter.. 3.4 million votes

stolen last election...

[jobycom]

3. Yeah, so let's just quit and get drunk.

[sam sarrha]

6. how about just getting the party to reform the voting laws and campaign

serious issues and start lawsuits where they are obviously breaking the law over and aver and over..

i dont appreciate you attitude, it is unproductive and just stupid.. i did not suggest quiting.. this is an issue that will determine the future of freedom in the entire world.. i think we should get busy.. i dont drink any more either.. waste of time, money and brain cells.. and jack/bud/coors has a bad attitude.

are you not upset that in the last election over 3 million votes were stolen.. Blatantly. may you have been getting drunk too much or something.. whatever

they will contenue to steal votes to get a 0.2 to 0.3 lead in any election till we stop them.. just like they have been doing in every elections since 2000

if they try to steal my vote because my signature is not 'exactly' like the card i will place the observer that messes with me under citizens arrest and make it a federal civil right issue and a big public one.. a class action suit

wake up.......

[jobycom]

11. First,

we can't do anything until we take control of Congress. The Republicans won't let us, and they do have the power to prevent us even talking about it. The only ways around that are A) winning in November (and your post was counter-productive to that by trying to convince people it just doesn't matter who votes), or B) making the mood of the nation so obvious any attempt to cheat will be too obvious.

People are doing what they can as far as searching for evidence, suing who they can, etc. When they find evidence instead of possiblities based on circumstantial assumptions, we'll have something to fight with. Until then, and for now, the best thing most of us can do is try to take back Congress instead of telling people interested in trying that nothing they do will matter--your exact words.

Every god damn thread where Democrats try to get excited about campaigning, some Wormtongue jumps in and says "It just doesn't matter because the elections are rigged." We don't need that. Go get drunk if that's the most you can contribute. ANd if you are contributing more than negative vibes, thank you, and keep up the good work, and try to understand the effect the "abandon all hope" posts have on activism.

And for the record, I don't get drunk or "whatever." That was a reference to your attitude, not advice on what to do.

[sam sarrha]

24. Second, we need help now to stop these storm troopers from telling us we

cant vote in the polls.. we need help on what to do..

Randi Rhodes was denied her vote at the polls..

we can do both at the same time.. we need to know how to make it public with civil disobedience if necessary when that say our signatures dont match and they are not credentialed hand writing experts.. just brown shirts.

help us and we will shut up...

[Ken Burch]

27. We all care about the vote fraud just as much as you do.

There's no conflict between that and the choice presented in this thread.
Don't try to create a split that doesn't exist.

[Webster Green]

2. "Adopt some more right wing messages to attract moderates"

WTF?!

I like the "Stick to our guns" concept. (Literally) Keep your tools oiled well!

Welcome to DU!:hi:

[sam sarrha]

4. if we get more voters they will just steal more votes with out vote reform

[Eric J in MN]

5. Populism worked for Bill Clinton in 1992.

He said he was on the side of those who work hard and play by the rules.

[Awsi Dooger]

25. Populism can win again

I'm not bowing to the theory that Iraq is the only meaningful topic. We can win on the old homeland themes with the proper messenger, and a clear simple message(s) that the public can remember and easily recite as the Democratic theme. It doesn't matter what we focus on if the populus believes we emphasize negativity and little else.

I continue to believe our focus should be on regaining support among white women. Every indication is that voting block determines our fate. They strayed toward national security concerns post 9/11. I would do relentless research on the needs and wants of that group, in terms of issues and themes and how to frame our message for max benefit. If you regain their vote, I'm confident a percentage of the likeminded voters in other blocks will turn our way as well.

[Cocoa]

7. I see that as a false dichotomy

One might hold compromise as a value, and therefore compromising might be sticking to one's guns.

And someone that "goes left" can be pandering.

To answer your question, I think dems have to be clean above everything else, and they have to be effective.

[MrBenchley]

8. Ahem...

If we have to go more left, we can't possibly be "sticking to our guns" unless you think language is just sound devoid of meaning.

But if you want a good argument, consider this: There are NO VOTES to be had out there on the left. The voters are in the center.

[Eric J in MN]

26. The majority of Americans are against NAFTA.

NT

[femmedem]

9. This is one of the reasons the whole country is watching CT

and the Lieberman/Lamont race. What we're seeing is that people are energized to vote for and campaign for a person who is solidly left of today's center. Even if Lamont loses, he's already accomplished what most people considered impossible just a few months ago.

My husband's father voted for Bush. He didn't really like Bush. But, first of all, he was a lifelong Republican. Second, he said that if Kerry had been more firmly against the war, he would have voted for him. In other words, he didn't see enough of a difference between Kerry and Bush to push him to vote against his affiliation.

This is so sad to me, because of course there is a world of difference between Kerry and Bush. But although this is just anecdotal, it tells me that Dems need to be less, not more, like Republicans, if they want to win.

[Greyhound]

10. John Kerry narrowly won, or lost, the 2004 election by simply being

"not bush", That alone should tell us that the country is more than ready for a real change. The problem is that a substantial number of the voters don't believe the current (well, two years ago, we won't know about now until after the elections) Democratic Party is offering it, and who can blame them? I don't want to rehash the pathetic presidential campaigns of '00 and '04, it is pointless flame-bait and resolves nothing, but the perception, right or wrong, is that we stand for nothing.

Because of the monumental incompetence and corruption of the re:puke:s, the Democratic Party has the ability, no the obligation, to take both Houses this cycle and use the next two years to lay the groundwork to avoid getting the blame for the disasters that are rapidly approaching, thanks to all of the legislation that was passed in the last five years, the worst consequences of which are only beginning to be felt recently, and are scheduled to take full effect between now and 2008. If The Party fails to accomplish either of these objectives, they are simply accepting the role of fall guy for the re:puke:s.

Check this paper out;

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=11435

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=11443

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=11449

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=11455

It shows that a significant, if not overwhelming, majority of voters are Democratic Party voters, if only they knew it, and goes on to make some decent proposals on how to tell them that. The downside is it will hurt quite a few of the Party "leaders" agendas and will, therefore, likely be met with stiff internal resistance.

As for the second option of "more compromise" that idea is thoroughly bankrupt. How much compromising have the re:puke:s done in the last 20 - 25 years? All of the compromises have come from the Democrats and that's how we ended up in this position.

Convinced?

Keep on fighting the good fight! :kick:

[union_maid]

12. We need to fight to move the center

The center moved right. Why did that happen, outside of their better PR? In what areas is that based on the real values of the center and in what areas is it based on the bullshit that's been fed to them? Those are the kinds of questions that need to be considered. There's nothing for regular people on the right when it comes to economic issues. I think that definitely falls into the "bullshit" category. As far as social values - that might be a little more complicated and also a huge problem because of the different cultural values in different regions of the country. And then there's national security. The average joe has felt more secure with Republicans in charge of that. It seems like a no-brainer that that should now be firmly in the bullshit column, but the polls have moved slowly on it.

[MrBenchley]

14. You're right about one thing....

"The center moved right. Why did that happen, outside of their better PR?"
Primarily it's because they're completely turned off by the far left, which has become a cancer on the Democratic party.

"There's nothing for regular people on the right when it comes to economic issues."
I don't think there's much for them on the right on any issue....and if we could get our extremists to pipe down and they heard the Democratic solutions I think they would vote for them in a heartbeat.

[union_maid]

15. But who do you mean by far left?

Assuming that's right, who do you mean? Who, in your view, constituted the far left when this march to the right started?

[MrBenchley]

16. I mean the far left....

Ask yourself this: Why haven't there been any major anti-war marches since September of last year?

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/9/25/205136/412

Who tossed the offensive blackface caricature into the Lamont/Lieberman primary campaign?

Who tried to pretend a prominent Democrat was responsible for skinheads and Nazis in the Army?

http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2006/07/28/nazi/index.html

[union_maid]

20. Well, but...

I'm with you on ANSWER. I don't think they're a help and I know some very far left Democrats who won't march if they're going to be there. It's not about how far left you are. It's about judgement, seems to me. There was, however, a very major anti-war march in NYC on April 29th. It was massive. Didn't get much press coverage, maybe because it was so peaceful. Therein lies the irony, huh?

[longship]

13. How about neither.

I utterly reject your artificial dichotomy. This is not an either-or deal.

First, we need to stop worrying about the labels that DC insiders and Bush-embedded pundits put on things. We need to rise above the labels and present our positions in the strongest of words.

Second, we need to rhetorically take down any and all people who screech these dichotomies. They are entirely artificial and meaningless characterizations of much more complex matters. Our response to such characterizations must be fast, devastating, and framed within the terms of our position on the issue.

Last, we must agressively take on ChimpCo with devastating attacks on their credibility, their total lack of results, and their outright criminality.

That's how we win. We have to rise above the bullshit and the monochromatic characterizations.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Greyhound]

18. Just makin' friends left and right aren't ya?

In case it escaped your notice, we are in deep shit and in need of ideas. Telling people to STFU and do what you tell them isn't going to work.

[OzarkDem]

19. False choice

Welcome to DU!

[guardian]

21. What's the right choice then?

Okay. What do you suggest?

[TayTay]

22. AHm, go talk to the voters

ask them what they talk about, what their concerns are and what they think about the shape of the country.

Listen to them. Learn from them. The present people who believe in what they say and who listen to their constituents. Don't overdue the strategizing.

[Ken Burch]

23. Stick to our guns and get BETTER guns...

In every campaign we need to focus on

1)a clear message we repeat as needed and that we defend without hesitation.

2)massive voter registration to boost the pool of voters(and a message that brings those voters in by making them feel that we care about them, rather than a message that big donors want to hear.)

3)relentless intensity and unceasing work. The Republicans never stop, so we need to never stop.

[mmonk]

28. Oppose republicans

especially when they have in office the worst president in US history. Stand up for the Constitution and the Bill of Rights (our rights). Use and defend constitutional checks and balances. Do not sign off on illegal wars. Apply our laws to the president and his party members. Stand up for the treaties that the US is party to and thus bound to by the Constitution. Do not let them steal votes. Challenge their ideas and their lies in the media and in speeches. Also, come up with a different agenda when theirs isn't good. You know, COMMON SENSE things.

[PaDem]

29. Economic populism

it centers around that.