Why is Ned Lamont putting on the mantle of the Dem establishment?

[dolstein]

Let's not forget that this is the same establishment that failed to deliver a primary victory for Joe Lieberman. And let's not forget that as unpopular as the Republican Party establishment is, the Democratic Party isn't "popular" by any stretch of the imagination. It's only less unpopular than the Republicans. And most of the voters who are still persuadable in this race are independents.

As someone who supports Lieberman, I find it amusing that Lamont is rushing to embrace the very same people that were backing Lieberman only days ago. I even read somewhere that Lamont's bringing in some more conventional political consultants and media advisers to work on his campaign -- just like kind of people Kos has been railing against. All of a sudden, the positions of Lamont and Lieberman are reversed -- Lamont's become the establishment candidate, and now Lieberman is the insurgent, someone too independent to get the backing of his own party.

It's not as if Ned Lamont needs the resources of the Democratic Party. This guy can simply write another large check to his campaign. And it's hard to see how the endorsements are likely to change the minds of many Lieberman supporters, since they can see just how empty these endorsements are ("Last week, I was telling you how great a Democrat Joe Lieberman was -- ignore everything I said -- the real Democrat is Ned Lamont").

[Joey Liberal]

1. Because he has balls and money n/t

[dolstein]

5. Well, you're half right.

NT

[LincolnMcGrath]

2. Can you guys stop with the backhanded swipe at the only DEMOCRAT

running in Ct.

[Clark2008]

3. Because that's the way party politics work.

Once the primary is over, the party is, theoretically, supposed to unite and support the nominee (as opposed to creating one's own party and running again, anyway).

[napi21]

4. Bothers you that Ned might get the money you want joe to get???

Too bad. You're not going to find much sympathy here on DU.

[dolstein]

Not really

Joe's not going to be hurting for cash. The more vocal Lamont's supporters are, and the more closely Lamont embraces the Democratic establishment, the more money and support will flow in from Republicans. If Republicans want to donate money to someone who votes the Democratic party line 90% of the time and who's promised to caucus with the Democrats, that's their perogative. Better they give money to Joe Lieberman than to Conrad Burns, Rick Santorum, Jim Talent, etc.

[saigon68]

12. Old Joementum can go fuck himself

He is a a pariah, DRAFT DODGER and he is done.



I'd love to see him come here for a visit

We would give him a rousing welcome

He is a traitor and a n ass clown (the people have spoken) the scumbag lost fair and square.

[1monster]

17. Woh! I haven't seen that photo before. That sappy-I'm-so-proud-of-

hubby look on his face is much better than I've seen on ANY cadidates wife (or husband) in all my years of watching news and politics.

Maybe he can start a new career by opening a school for candidates' spouses to teach them how to look properly besotted...

[saigon68]

22. He's in love with his master.

That look means "lets go out on a date"

And do some "heavy petting".

[napi21]

13. We'll have to wait and see. I have been posting for days now, that

Joe will drop out of the campaign. My guess has been mid Oct. but many others believe it will happen in Sept. I don't believe Joe will have the $$ or the support he needs to win, and I think when the polls tell him he doesn't have a chance, he'll back away.

Time will tell who is right.

[freeplessinseattle]

20. From what I've read, he votes 50% with D's, not 90% n/t

[LoZoccolo]

52. Document or retract.

Here's mine: http://www.connpost.com/news/ci_4116528

[3dman]

6. Same old formula---

Run as far to the left as necessary to win the primary, then swing as far back to the center as necessary to win the general. It's almost always been that way. It will take a while to change.

[MercutioATC]

7. The party is following the will of the people.

Lieberman refuses to.

Lamont isn't the "establishment candidate" simply because the Democratic Party has honored the will of Democratic voters and endorsed him.

Lieberman isn't "too independent to get the backing of his own party". The party backs the candidate that the voters choose. The voters chose Lamont.

[dolstein]

15. The will of which people? The plurality that want to re-elect Lieberman?

Sorry, but your "will of the people" argument is likely to fall on deaf ears as long as Lieberman is ahead of Lamont in the polls. And if Lamont is ahead, none of this matters anyway.

[MercutioATC]

21. The will of the Democratic voters in Connecticut.

Perhaps you could explain exactly when either party began endorsing candidates who lose a party primary.

By your logic, the Democratic party should endorse the Republican candidate in red states because more voters support him...

:eyes:

[cali]

29. I suspect that

Lieberman's polling numbers will steadily drop over the next month. He has an air of desperation about him that will turn off voters.

[salin]

38. So you are actively supporting working against the democratic party

candidate. Just wanted to get that straight.

As much as I have not been thrilled with a few of our (as in "democratic party") elected officials, and have expressed such discontent, I have NEVER advocated against their election in the general elections. Just wanting to make sure that I have it straight that you do not have the same such loyalty to the effort of gaining a democratically lead Senate?

Don't bother throwing the straw-man of Bernie Sanders up there. That is a non-major party candidate replacing a non-major candidate - rather than one risking a NEW seat to go to the Republican column.

[janx]

41. Lamont was elected by the people of Connecticut.

So he is now the Dem nominee. End of story, as they say.

[salin]

42. unless having a democratic senator, no longer matters

and risking a democratic majority in the senate, in order to put some reins on the Bush adminstration is less important than the personal amibitions of Lieberman... then it isn't the end of story. Then it is worthy of disruption and trying to derail the democratic nominee. Almost makes one wonder if those who stir this particular pot, might have a dog to hunt in the particular situation. What dog that might be, hard to even speculate upon - but clearly it isn't the one seeking a Democratic majority in the Senate.

[janx]

44. I have wondered about

that dog also. ;-)

[madfloridian]

8. This is so obvious.

It is kind of odd to see the only Democrat running in CT being attacked by Democrats at a Democratic board.

Is this ok here now? Not against the rules?

[LincolnMcGrath]

16. Unbelievable isn't it?

I guess slander like "Our Far Left" is still allowed, despite the rules to the contrary. :eyes:

[Crunchy Frog]

35. Yes, it appears that it is now acceptable to attack

all people on this board who support a legitimate Democratic nominee for public office. I wonder how quicky someone would be tombstoned for going after any other Democratic candidate.

[LincolnMcGrath]

40. The campaign against the imaginary leftist boogieman really has

been allowed to spiral out of control.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crunchy Frog]

34. I just sent one too.

I'm just curious as to how much the rules are going to be enforced when it comes to this particular race. I've never seen any other situation where people got away with so much posting in support of a 3rd party candidate and against the legitimate Democratic nominee.

[MercutioATC]

45. Read this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2772240&mesg_id=2776483

[snowbear]

23. Hmmm.. you made a good point there Mad down in sunny Florida...

On DU, you're not allowed to push Independents and/or Greens..

I agree with Lincoln on here too.. It's sad to see all the bickering over this race on here.

I've always liked Dolstein .. but geez, Dolst... did you happen to read the great thread from NickDemShep who also supported Lieberman, but who wants to support the Democratic candidate now?

I sure hope you read his post a day or so ago. If you didn't, it might make you feel better if you read it.
xoxo ~~

[MercutioATC]

28. Actually, you ARE allowed to push Indies and Greens, but ONLY IF

there's not a Democrat in the race.

It's a violation of DU rules to post in support of a Democratic candidate's opponent(s).


...not that it's ever enforced... :eyes:

[snowbear]

31. Oh.. Thanks for the clarification!

[MoonRiver]

39. I think it's just take the mods a while to get to the alerts.

I'm sure there's plenty coming in.

[msongs]

9. Lamont is the elected democratic party nominee and Lieberman is NOT nt

[Mark E. Smith]

10. Because he wants to get elected?

Just a guess.

[PassingFair]

11. Are you kidding me?

This is POLITICS.

Lieberman lost a primary.

Ned is the DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE in Connecticut.

Why WOULDN'T he "put on the mantle" of a democrat. He IS one.

I'm sure Dean and the DNC will have no trouble supporting him.....

[BlueJac]

14. There are winners and there are losers.........

Joe lost..........but continues to make the case for the voters with is mouth.

[seabeyond]

18. well, golly gee.... i am thinkin' lamont IS a democrat

if he is a democrat, wouldnt he present the democratic mantle????

what?

[ima_sinnic]

24. Lieberman LOST. deal with it.

it is to be expected that a tiny minority of "democrats" here at DU will whine and pout because a Bush suck-up was defeated in a fair election. But this IS a Democratic forum, so perhaps you'd be happier at an "independent" board. Hey, why don't you start one, a whole new forum all about Joe, to go with Joe's singular notion that he is "entitled" to his Senate seat and all the perks and bennies that seat has given him these past years, the public be damned.

[MercutioATC]

26. "Lieberforum....a forum of one"

I like it

:)

[ima_sinnic]

30. LOL, good one!

All About Joe, 24/7s

[inthebrain]

53. Although I can't stand Lieberman either, I have a different opinion

I think Lieberman is a prick for doing what he;s doing. On the other hand some people on this board could serve eachother well by offering a little tolerance to one another. I'm sick of people running to the mods everytime they see something posted that they don't like. There is a such thing as rule and there is such a thing as being a snitch.

Lieberman just lost the primary. Why don't we give some of the long time posters here some time to get over it. Perhaps they come around.

Yet, there is nothing worse than coming in here and watching you people dime on eachother all the time. I get so disgusted with it that I take months off from this board because of it. If you all are Democrats you might go farther if you all stop trying to take eachother down a knotch.

I've spent tons of my time working on Green party campaigns and Democratic party campaigns. I've never seen a group so on the cusp of tearing eachother apart than I've seen amongst the Democratic Party base. I've lost my share of elections working with Greens but they certainly don't go out of their way to get each others goat. I think as frustrating as the Greens are with the state of things, they might be in their rights to let off a little steam on eachother. For some reason, they are able to resist.

As much as the folks here detest that party perhaps that is one lesson they can take from them. Those that are supporting Lieberman right now will eventually come around. It's better that they open up here so you can work on them a bit. If you sut them out, it's lights out for good. Chances are, you'll never get a chance to reason your points with them.

The right wing trolls popping up here pushing Lieberman are another story. Either way, cut the Lieberman folks some slack if you know they've been here a while. We all know what it's like to fight for a candidate and have them lose.

It sucks and it's heartbreaking.

Peace!!!!

[saltpoint]

25. Ned's a team player. He plays on the blue team.

Democrats chose him in Connecticut over Lieberman.

Lamont will likely be the chief beneficiary of national Democrats' support.

I think his campaign staff must be very capable souls.

[xultar]

27. Well he's the party candiate. Jomentum lost ya know.

[IChing]

32. It's called a "race" not a football game for a reason

Joe thinks it's a football game, fricken halftime, his "team of one" is behind and he can catch up in the second half.

In high school sports, such as wrestling and track
you always have tests to see who will represent the school
at the next county meet

Ned ran against Joe, Joe loss, the coach says Ned gets to run in the meet.
Simple right?

Joe says it wasn't a race, it was a football game.
He quits the school and his mother sends him to a private school
and then demands money and support so he can play against his old school in the county meet.




:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

why are we even discussing this?

[Crunchy Frog]

33. Ned Lamont is the Democratic Party nominee.

Joe Lieberman isn't. The party is supposed to back it's nominees for public office. Democrats may prefer one candidate to another in a primary, but when it's over, they are supposed to back the winner. It's not about the "establishment", it's simply about how party politics works. I'm surprised you don't understand this simple concept.

Lamont is playing by the party rules, which Lieberman is not. That's why he pledged that he would support Lieberman should he win the nomination. By that standard, Ned was always the "establishment candidate" and Lieberman never was.

[salin]

36. Our local dems got a lesson a number of years ago.

In the 2002 elections the more progressive folks worked within the system/party. Several self-proclaimed "green dems" ran in the primaries for local offices. They won. One nomination ousted an incumbent. The other was for an open seat. Then, out of the blue, the ousted democratic office holder, and the retiring office holder - began to endorse the GOP candidates - to the point of going to fundraisers for the candidates. The lesson was - if you are on the progressive side of the party you are supposed to work through the system - go through the primary and if you don't win - work for the party candidate... because the dems are going to be better than the GOP. Until the progressive candidates win.

That election saw the county council majority tip republican. The retiring and ousted dems didn't care. The impact on the local policies (per development and spending) were quick and clear. The following election cycle saw progressive dems run again - and WIN and win back the majority on the council. In the long run, the "be loyal but only if you are a centrist, and to the centrists the same rules of loyalty through the primary process does not applied" - did not work.

As a progressive, I have voted for my centrist former governor, now senator Bayh - many times. If a Green or Independent candidate were to run against him in the general election, I would still vote for Bayh, as a vote split might throw the election to the right.

Learn that the lesson applies to all sides of the party. When the candidate takes their own opportunism over the will of the people, and is willing to risk the majority in the Senate (and we DO have a chance to get the majority) - there should be no surprise when people do not follow. To follow means to risk ever being able to ask for progressive votes "in loyalty to the party and the system" again.

Btw, do you work for the campaign? I would think that your loyalty would be greatly appreciated.

[MoonRiver]

37. Gee, could it be because he WON the DEMOCRATIC primary?

:think:

[stevedeshazer]

43. dolstein,

Does Joe represent the Democratic establishment? He lost the primary election. He's not the Democratic candidate. Period.

Respectfully, over the years here at DU I've stood up for you at times and supported Lieberman. I wasn't crazy about his support for the war, but he was right on most issues and that was good enough for me. Big tent and all that.

Now, Joe is thumbing his nose at the very Democrats he claimed to represent and, frankly, is exhibiting petulant behavior that screams sour grapes.

Joe Lieberman has made a choice: He has chosen to disrespect the Democratic voters in his state. dolstein, he's turned against the Democrats. He's looking to Republicans to support his independent bid to thwart the will of the very same Democrats from whom he sought support.

dolstein, Joe lost the primary election. Let me repeat that for emphasis:

Joe lost the Democratic primary.

Don't you think he should have run as an independent in the first place instead of trying to have it both ways?

Come on, I know you're smarter than that. :(

What is it about that that you don't get?

[mitchtv]

46. What is it about that that you don't get?

the primary system?

[leesa]

47. Years of supporting a lunatic seems to be pushing you over the edge.

[CTLawGuy]

48. you support Lieberman?

better find another website to post on...

Lieberman is not a Democrat, he is actively running against the democratic party.

He is parroting Bush/Cheney talking points on Iraq and security.

At DU, we support the Democratic nominee.

[dsc]

49. If he is using the media people that is a huge mistake

Lamont should stick with the media people who made his ads, which were far and away the best in the race. But the endorsements he should keep. It isn't just Dodd and Clinton etc. It is the footsoldiers supplied by labor, NARAL, HRC, etc. Those are what he wants and has earned.

[zulchzulu]

50. He's not...he won in CT primary...he needs to win in November...

In baseball terms, it's the fifth inning. In football terms, halftime just ended...

Lamont must win and we need to do all we can to help his support. There are hundreds of other races just as important as his...

As for anyone who supports Lieberman at this point, I can only offer sympathy for not having the willingness to accept that Lieberman has done nothing good for the Democratic Party ever since he ran as an abyssmal VP candidate in 2000. Before then, Lieberman was way off my political radar.

Lieberman lost and has proved he is NOT a real Democrat by selfishly running as an "independent" candidate. He is a sore loser and a whiny self-absorbed charlatan. Nothing more. Period.

[madfloridian]

51. It is blowing my mind to even have that asked here.

He is putting on the "mantle" because he won the Democratic primary.

This is unbelievable.

[ncrainbowgrrl]

54. Locking.

Ned Lamont is the winner of the democratic party primary. Therefore, he now has access to the resources that are provided to the democratic senatorial candidate from Connecticut. He has additional resources, and why shouldn't he hire those staffers from his primary opponent that he feels would be a good addition to his staff.