I live in one of the best countries in the world

[AusGail]

Despite the fact that we have had an atrocious government for the last ten years, I experienced something the other night that I found quite surprising.

My husband and I went to an opening night show in Sydney (The Boy from Oz: hugh Jackman) and as we were leaving the theater we saw an ex Prime Minister of ours- Bob Hawke standing with his wife, waiting for his car to arrive. He wasn't being mobbed or bothered by anybody, I couldn't see any body guards around, he was just another Joe Citizen.

The show was brilliant, but seeing that surreal sight afterwards put icing on the cake.

I hope my country never changes (only the current government)

[mitchtv]

1. I hope it changes enough

to give Gay Australians their full rights. Fairly backward in that respect

[AusGail]

3. While we have this government,

unfortunately it wont happen. My nephew is gay and he is one my most favorite people in the world. I feel sad for him that he has to confront homophobia in his everyday life.

Didn't Bush also put a stop to gay marriages?, because thats about where Australia is up to.

[mitchtv]

7. Monkey see

Monkey do
Chimps anyway

[Bear down under]

12. Howard's amendment to the Federal Marriage Act ...

... was not an amendment to the Consitution. It can be, and in time will be, repealed by a more enlightened government. In the meantime, we can work for civil unions (on the British or NZ model) on a State by State basis.

[AusGail]

18. Yes, I agree.

Even if it was a situation where it was a legalized partnership, so that wills and other legal matters could be handled more simply. Unfortunately, we have at the moment a very homophobic government and I cant see any changes being made until they are voted out.

[babylonsister]

2. Why would anyone want to 'mob' an ex-politician?

Was he well loved? Or, I guess not! :D

[AusGail]

5. He served as Prime Minister from 1983 to 1992

He was very well liked. He introduced medicare. That means every Australian can receive medical treatment and/or be hospitalised free of charge. He lead a left wing government (Labor) after being a trade union leader for many years prior.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

28. About Hawke

I'm not sure you would call his government left wing. He implemented a number of free market reforms, abolished free university education and replaced it with the HECS system (which is still better than what the Tories are trying to do with university education now) and aligned Australia much more closely with the US than previous Labor governments -although to his credit he did oppose Star Wars, the policies of the Reagan Administration in Latin America and its indifference toward apartheid in South Africa. He also wanted to merge the ABC with SBS and I think at one time wanted to introduce commercials on the ABC. People on this board would probably dislike him because they'd think he was a DLC-type -he'd get the same reception that Bill Clinton gets here I think

It's also true to say that much of the foundations for Medicare were under the Whitlam government. Keating actually did much more in terms of Aboriginal reconciliation in five years than Hawke did in eight years. Keating also floated the idea of an Australian Republic whereas Hawke was inclined just to let it drop because it was too controversial.

Hawke is to be given credit IMO for promoting closer engagement with the Asia-Pacific and the Third World and his passionate lifelong opposition to apartheid -a commitment that Nelson Mandela acknowledged. And for his passionate opposition to the wider concept of racism as evidenced by how he went in all guns blazing against Howard when the latter was engaged in race-baiting in the 1980s (and is still doing so now)

Don't get me wrong because I'm not criticizing Hawke for the policies I mentioned in his first paragraph-I loved Hawke and supported most of his policies. I think he was a great leader and statesman in many ways and I think his consensus-based model of government was probably what kept Labor in power for so many years and is a model that future Labor governments will probably have to adopt if they want long term power.

I'd actually describe Hawke as being on the centre right of the centre left if that makes any sense

Hawke is the only living Labor PM whom I haven't met. I'd love to some day though

[AusGail]

33. From your post, I take it you must be Australian (or have close

affiliations)

I met Hawke during the 1972 "Its Time" election. That was when he was secretary of the ACTU.

I think by the time Keating took over, Hawke had just about run out of steam. Keating was a PM who I admired as well. It was because of his many reforms that the Howard government is taking credit for now.

Thankyou for your response. I am a member of the Labor Party and because of that I do get to meet the occasional politician.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

36. I'm also a member of the ALP

Which is actually how I came to meet most of the former PMs. Unfortunately I wasn't born during the Whitlam era -you were very fortunate to have been able to experience Whitlam's rise to power and the Whitlam government. I cannot even begin to imagine how exciting that election would have been -just watching the old reruns of the "It's Time" advertisement sends shivers down my spine because I found it so electrifying and powerful

Keating was IMO much closer to the Whitlamesque tradition than Hawke -his policies on multiculturalism, Aboriginal reconciliation, Asia-Pacific engagement and the like were things heavily emphasized under Whitlam but they seemed to assume a lower profile under Hawke -although they were still very much there. I actually was a Liberal supporter for most of the Keating government but I never disliked him to the profound extent that I do with Howard and I always knew he was doing the best thing for the country. I agree with you -Keating laid much of the groundwork for Australia's economic prospectus that Howard has taken credit for now. And the most shameful thing about it is that Labor has allowed him to do so. I remember talking to a senior Labor Party figure who said that, after the 1996 federal election, Beazley decided to disavow any of the legacy of the Hawke-Keating era in government despite people like Simon Crean arguing that Labor needed to take credit for the economic reforms that Keating pushed through. So Beazley surrended the high ground on economics to Howard, failed to answer Howard when adequately he perpetuated the myth of the "Beazley black hole" and now Labor is having a hard time proving its economic credentials because it allowed Howard to take sole credit for the economic success/low interest rates over the last eight years.

[AusGail]

38. If the media gives the opposition a fair go

They can now prove that people on an average mortgage are paying back a higher percentage of their income than when it was at 17%. The cost of housing has doubled, and in some cases tripled. People living in the mortgage belt are also feeling the pinch with the high cost of petrol because there is little public transport.

The 1972 election was my first one to vote in. That was back in the days when you had to be 21. I gave out "how to votes" in 1974 for Labor in the seat of Benelong. That was when Howard came in.

The way things are going at the moment, I wouldn't be surprised if Howard calls an early election in November. The signs are there.....
Dropped the immigration bill
Bringing in conscience vote on stem cell research
More people having problems with "work choices" and "welfare to work"
Iraq war lasting longer than expected
He's going to bring David Hicks home if not charged soon
Petrol prices skyrocketing
LPG tank rebates

The signs are there

[ChipsAhoy]

11. Bill Clinton is the answer to that question.

He had many death threats by the extreme right. I'm glad he had/has Secret Service surrounding him.

[ChipsAhoy]

13. Additionally, I agree with the original author's post.

America IS the best country on the planet. That's why we are trying so hard to get our country BACK. I once went on a European vacation with my family when I was a teenager and getting back on American soil was the best part of the journey. Granted, the other countries were beautiful, but HOME is HOME and I couldn't wait to get back here.

[Spider Jerusalem]

23. If you were Dutch, or British, or French, or Italian...

you'd feel the same way about the Netherlands, the UK, France or Italy, I'm sure.

For most people in the Western world, 'the best country on the planet' is going to be whichever one they're from.

[gula]

4. Maybe you shouldn't use the USA as your sole comparison.

I have shaken hands with our then PM (not by choice) as he was out walking with what seemed to be a friend. I also have been to several consular events by different countries without ever seeing security personal.

[AusGail]

6. Who was the Prime Minister you shook hands with?

[gula]

8. Mulroney of "Irish eyes are smiling" duo with Reagan.

[AusGail]

9. Excuse my ignorance, he was the Canadian PM?

[gula]

10. Yes

and don't feel bad. I am not exactly up on Aussie PMs.

[sandnsea]

15. And yet as US citizens

we're supposed to be up on all of them or we're labeled arrogant, nationalistic, and self-involved. Hmmm.

[AusGail]

16. Why shouldn't you try to keep up with world politics?

Australia may only have a small population (and at the moment a shit-pot government) but I still believe we deserve the recognition of other countries. I try to make it my business to keep up with international politics, and I feel that if most people did the same, we would at least have a more informed world.

Arrogant, nationalistic and self-involved is a label that sounds appropriate to you. You may have misread my original post. I said that I live in ONE of the best countries in the world, NOT the best, as you obviously do.

[sandnsea]

19. Well re-read your own post

You're the one who said they didn't know who Mulroney was, which was responded to by a Canadian who admitted she didn't keep up with Australian PM's either. But if people from the US don't know who every single world leader is, (which I generally do incidentally), then all hell breaks loose despite the fact that none of you know anything about each other either. That's what I said and that's all I said, not anything about any best country in the world bullshit.

[AusGail]

20. Don't you think that you are overstating it when you say

"all hell breaks loose"? I'm sorry, I didn't think it was such a sensitive issue.

[sandnsea]

24. It was a teensy observation is all

But yes, US citizens take a lot of heat if we aren't relatively knowledgeable about every aspect of politics and culture for the majority of countries in the world. I'm sure you're familiar with the phrase "ugly American" and not knowing foreign leaders is part of the label. I found it quite ironic that a Canadian and Australian admit they aren't necessarily that knowledgeable either, that's all.

[AusGail]

26. It is discussion boards such as this

that keeps us all informed. I find it interesting to not only learn about who won what primary etc, but to find our how the average person feels about it. I could not recite to you the leader of every country in the world, but I'll never hesitate to ask, if I'm not sure.

PS

We also have "ugly Australians"

[RFKHumphreyObama]

29. Mulroney was of great assistance to the Australian Labor Party in 1993

We were in the middle of an election campaign in which our then Tory leader was trying to float a Goods and Services Tax (GST). Mulroney resigned during the middle of the campaign and the ALP was then able to float Canada as being an example of why not to have the GST. Our Tory leader started furiously backpedalling and tried to push as much distance between himself and Mulroney during the election campaign. We ended up winning that election but unfortunately we lost the next one and our current Tory government implemented the GST

Incidentally Mulroney and Hawke were close friends who worked together with Rajiv Gandhi and a few others to promote the anti-apartheid position in CHOGM

[JohMunich99]

14. Well when you are No. 1 people are going to want to take shots at you

The PM of Australia, that's like single A baseball compared to America. And a FORMER PM? Oh yeah, he doesn't need security. If anything he would want a NAME ID boost.

[AusGail]

17. It is comments like yours

that give average Americans a bad reputation. Wouldn't you prefer it if your politicians didn't need security guards?

I did not put your country down and there is no need to take pot shots at mine.

[JohMunich99]

25. It's not putting down at all

Australia is like Single-A baseball in terms of media exposure. How many people in the world now Bush's face? How many people in the world blame the American President for shit that isn't his fault? Are there things that are Bush's fault? Oh hell yeah, you bet. Bush has fucked up a lot of things. But the majority of people who have gone after the President blame him for things that come from mental problems. Read a history of the people who have and who have tried to assassinate the President and you might start to understand.

I don't think governors, senators, etc. need bodyguards. There's something about the media exposure and the history of people who have tried to assassinate the President that add up to bodyguards. Check out some history before playing the victim card.

[AusGail]

27. I dont profess to being a victim

and you need to take a cold shower

[JohMunich99]

30. haha

"I did not put your country down and there is no need to take pot shots at mine."

I don't know what you guys do down under, but up here that's called playing the victim when no pot shots were taken.

[AusGail]

34. Would you please quote me the section where I took a pot shot

at your country?

[welshTerrier2]

21. thanks for posting this ...

when i was a kid, i used to wake up every morning with a shortwave radio tuned in to Radio Australia ... this was back in the '60s ... i got fairly familiar with Australian culture and even some of your local politics ...

as an American, i found your "little story" refreshing ... sometimes we become so blinded by the way things are in our own country that a quick look beyond the borders helps us see our own world a little better ...

i'm not sure whether a former president would ever be out in public with no security in this country ... i know that Senators and Congressmen go unescorted ... the bigger issue that concerns me is that our elected officials are almost invisible in their own districts ... they might make a speech in a major city but most of them do not get out enough to mingle with the common folks ... in many ways, they've become the elite ruling class ... tough to be a real democracy like that ...

of course, at election time, if you really wanted to see them, they're always glad to have you attend one of their fundraisers ... that tells you about all you really need to know ...

now where did i put that old shortwave radio?

[AusGail]

22. Thankyou for understanding what I was trying to get at.

I found it refreshing in this day and age of terrorism, that someone who is important to me in Australian politics could go about his business without being bothered by admirers or adversaries.

I think some people thought that I was putting down their country while praising my own.

I'll continue to dream of Utopia.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

32. It has its downsides too

If Harold Holt were subject to the same security provisions as a US President, chances are he would have never gone missing.

[RFKHumphreyObama]

31. I'm often surprised at the lack of security here

When I visit Canberra, my favorite destination is Old Parliament House. I love the fact that they enable you to walk around the building on your own without supervision and the fact that you are even able to walk into the Prime Minister’s office (which was used when Parliament used to sit in that building) and explore it for as ever long as you want to. I thoroughly enjoyed being able to walk through the rooms in which Cabinet used to sit and to explore the party and Caucus rooms and to just get soaked up in the history and the environment of what once used to be the corridors of power. I just love the fact that the powers that be are trusting enough in this security-conscious era to allow you such freedom to wonder around such an important building.

[AusGail]

35. I haven't been to Old Parliament House yet

During the week in March 2003 when the coalition of the killing invaded Iraq, my husband and I were in Canberra. I thought that the security system would have been beefed up a bit, but it didnt seem to be. Parliament House and the War Memorial were very lax. Maybe that comes with our "She'll be right" attitude which I kind of prefer.

Next time I go to Canberra I'll check out old Parliament House. As a matter of fact I have Parliament on TV now as I write.

[fuzzyball]

37. Immigrating to the USA is the best thing that ever happened to me...

Coming from a 3rd world country, I found a country where
most people are NOT prejudiced against immigrants. Thank
you USA for taking in this immigrant, giving me
excellent job opportunities where my talent as a good
computer systems developer was given due recognition
and monetary reward. To top all that I met the wonderful
American girl who became my wife and gave me the two most
adorable daughters.

Long live USA!!!

[AusGail]

39. I am truly happy for you

Sometimes we all tend to take for granted the things that are the most important in life. Lucky for you that you chose America to migrate to. For the last 10 years we have had a very racist government. I love my country for many reasons and the Howard government is not one of them. I think both our countries could be almost perfect if you could get rid of the Bush administration and I could get rid of the Howard administration.