D. Brazile: "(Dems) Dumb as Shit" For Not Doing More to Protect the Vote

[AtomicKitten]

Donna Brazile, a familiar pinata here at DU often pilloried in that oh so special DU scorched earth fashion, gets it and deserves some recognition.

In the current Rolling Stone Magazine (a link to which I cannot find - (help!)) ...

The Battle for Ohio
by Tim Dickinson

excerpt:

"Nobody gives a damn," says Donna Brazile, the former campaign manager for Al Gore. "I don't want to talk about it after Election Day, when people have been screwed over. It's our moral responsibility as Americans to protect the right to vote."

As chair of the Voting Rights Institute at the Democratic National Committee, Brazile is trying to raise $3 million for a comprehensive national effort to prevent vote rigging this fall. The DNC campaign - to be unveiled at the party convention on August 18th - will create a national hot line to report problems at the polls, sue states that impose unfair restrictions on voting, beef up watchdog efforts at the state level, and assemble a national panel of lawyers to combat voter fraud on Election Day.

Brazile is trying to recruit Al Gore and John Kerry to the effort, but neither has yet signed on. She also faults Emanuel, who is feuding with party chief Howard Dean over strategy, for not doing enough to support the party's effort. "They don't get it - they're as dumb as shit," she says. "It makes me want to smash something. I want to go and have a conversation with Rahm: 'You want to take back the House? So what are going to do to protect people's right to vote?' If you want to win, it has to be part of your campaign plan. Period."

excerpt:

Two hundred and six House members have signed on in support of a bill that would require all voting machines to create a verifiable paper trail that can be recounted, but the measure is being held hostage by the Republican leadership.


link to Voting Rights Institute @ DNC
http://www.democrats.org/a/national/election_reform/voting_rights/vri/

[msongs]

1. this woman needs to be fired. nt

[MH1]

3. Yes. A LONG time ago. nt

[babylonsister]

88. What took HER so long? She's good at pointing the finger, isn't she? nt

[Tigress DEM]

111. So tell Donna to take a flying leap, PROB SOLVED National 1-888-DEM-VOTE

edit, I was thrown off by a post that said Donna was DLC all the way. Someone told me that there already IS a hotline and I supposed it was a different hotline because there is already 12 million for the project and it is associated with Dean and the DNC...

But it is the same hotline.

Is NOT supporting it the best option or is there a way to work with Dean and the DNC to give DEMs the mean to trust the hotline process? Could we raise a lot of money and stipulate that we will give it to the hotline fund if Donna steps down?



*************************************************************************

Howard Dean and the DNC already have a hotline in place with a 12 million projected budget for 38 states.

IF we really want to make a difference, we should support this effort and encourage them to do it for all 50 states if possible.

If people want to burn Donna, they can write to newspapers and ask her in public why she isn't contributing this money to an already established voter hotline instead of starting up her own? If it causes her to lose face and donate money to the cause just to keep up appearances, then DNC still gets money to do the right thing.

Let's be clever people.

Also, if there already IS a hotline and therefore the problem is being addressed by DEMS, then it IS Donna who is dumb as shit for not doing her homework before bringing it up as a new suggestion.

Mea culpa for not knowing about it in advance. Count myself in the dumb as shit on this issue, but have cleaned up my act and am now informed and reasonably less dumb than I was an hour ago.

I foget who this quote comes from, but it's been a lifeline at times, "Perfection is a long way off, but progress can be made to happen every day."

Be progressive!

[Tigress DEM]

145. On edit. Same hotline Donna is sponsoring.

So, question remains if this is our best bet, how do we take back the voter's hotline?

How do we get someone in there we can trust or how can we have someone in there who will be able to monitor Donna and her people?

[madfloridian]

21. Why does she need to be fired?

For asking other Democrats to support counting the vote?

[msongs]

84. for doing nothing about it until she gets to be in Rolling Stone?

was she making these statements in 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005?
was she leading the charge against vote fraud, or even following behind the herd?

not sure calling other democrats dumb as **** really is worth her hire. If she called me that in a public forum I know
she'd be history if she worked for me.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[Totally Committed]

She can just pucker up and kiss my sweet petoot.

She's always been part of the problem... never part of the solution. She never talks as strongly as when she's bitching about and criticizing other Democrats.

A DAY LATE AND A DOLLAR SHORT, DONNA!

TC

[AtomicKitten]

5. " ... never talks as strongly as when

... bitching about and criticizing other Democrats."

Ain't that the truth? ... but I'm not talking about Donna.

And it's metastasizing DU.

[Totally Committed]

8. She's DLC all the way....

That makes her just barely a Democrat to me, if that's what you're referring to. Sorry it offended you.

I will defend someone I see as a real Democrat to the death. These DINO whiners can just ... well, as I said, can just kiss me where the sun don't shine.

TC

[AtomicKitten]

14. I'm not offended, quite the contrary.

I just won $50 because of the predictable response here.

Thanks.

Enjoy waddling in the chaos and discord within the party that seems to be the focus and sum total of many here at DU.

I'm off to do more positive, uplifting, and meaningful work to effect change.

[fooj]

23. What has DONNA done to secure our vote?

Hmmm???????????

What POSITIVE, UPLIFTING work has Donna done for our party?

Before you cast stones I suggest you do a little research on St. Donna.

BTW...beautiful picture of Al and Tipper. Makes you kinda wonder why THEY haven't jumped on her bandwagon, eh? Ask them. I'm certain they would be happy to tell you all you need to know about St. Donna...

Enjoy your $50!

[Tigress DEM]

36. Point is a HOTLINE to report the problems IS a good idea...

JUST because you don't like the person making the suggestion, doesn't mean you focus on trashing the person instead of getting focused on working toward the solution. It is a TOTAL waste of time.

Worse than that,it is counter-productive and it makes me realize that people who do that are walking away from DEM ideals like diplomacy. You DON'T have to like someone or what they have done in the past to bind with them for a time on a concrete solution (that you would have loved if John Conyers proposed it) to defeat a greater evil.

DINO's that are taking money from the right wing pacs, or working against US like Diane Feinstein, must be dealt with now. Those who have let us down or screwed up trying to do things that they thought would help need direction and fire under the butt. WE need everyone to pull together so WE can get this done.

If it's just that she's involved and you totally can't trust her, then take the idea and sell it to someone else. We could use several hotlines to report the amount of abuse we know is coming. Just suggesting that we don't lose focus by stopping to rip each other apart.

[Totally Committed]

38. It is, indeed... Let someone who can be trusted run it, not

Ms. "best friends with Karl Rove" Brazile.

I'm not against the message.... just the messenger.

TC

[Tigress DEM]

49. FINE. It would be more productive to focus on that then.

Peace.

:hi:



:dilemma:

I have to watch myself with Hilary stuff. I think she isn't someone I can trust either because she abandonned the Vote Reform Bill she had supported over a year ago and because she is taking money from right wing sources.

But honestly if it took her pushing it to get vote reform in place, I'd stand behind her as well despite my reservations.

Humans are imperfect vessels, but we need to take our best possible solutions and enact them ASAP wherever they come from at times if the alternative is no solution.

[fooj]

65. I agree, Tigress. 100%.

I won't sell out to St. Donna. If she is the only solution this country is in deep shit.

[Tigress DEM]

69. Just because she spoke about it, doesn't make it HER solution.

But if YOU are so grossed out by the suggestion because she made it that you won't touch it with a 10 foot pole, you are giving up too easily on an idea that has merit due to an obsessive repulsion to an individual.

12 step groups have a solution for these types of issues, it's called "principals above personalities" and one of their major principals is that the groups function best with unity as their basis while allowing people to agree to disagree on things.

I have never sainted the woman, I never knew her name before this post.

I simply think the point of the op was to look at the potential solution regardless of where it came from.

[AZBlue]

220. "I'm not against the message.... just the messenger."

Again, I'm quoting you because that is the MOST self-defeating attitude to take.
I'm absolutely shocked that you wouldn't realize it already.

[flyarm]

216. ahhh we had the hotline in fla in 2004..

it didn't do shit!

its a pacifier at best!!

fly

[Totally Committed]

28. "I just won $50 because of the predictable response here."

Enjoy waddling in the chaos and discord within the party that seems to be the focus and sum total of many here at DU.

I'm off to do more positive, uplifting, and meaningful work to effect change.

Ouch! Well, that's telling us. I can't speak for anyone else, but I feel pretty bitch-slapped.

Have a good time and don't spend your $50 all in one place.

(the totally uncontrite) TC

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[flyarm]

donna comes on tv i shut tv off..she is no dem..she is a traitor!!

does anyone have the article in the past week i believe that donna is on a committee or something like that with republicans..i know i read it this past week and i was shocked ..i just wish i could remember it all..

going to look to see if i can find it!!

fly

[Tigress DEM]

52. So ignore the messenger and think about the message.

Wouldn't it be a good thing to be able to report the abuses we know are coming? ASAP.

For instance, what if we implored Howard Dean to take up the cause? Would you trust him?

If not, who would you trust?

[flyarm]

80. i think this is donna's message...

I Will Rebuild With You, Mr. President, by Donna Brazile


http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=926

Mr. President, I am ready for duty. I am ready to stir those old pots again. Let's roll up our sleeves and get to work. Donna Brazile

If you want to know why Al Gore lost in 2000, this is it.

If you want to know why Al Gore changed so drastically after 2000, this is it, too.

No more Mr. Nice Guy, Mr. President, because nice guys, patsies and people who play patty cake with politicians who will never return the favor get us nowhere.

I just want to slap her.

"Roll up our sleeves and get to work" at a wage that doesn't help anyone pay the bills, is evidently Ms. Brazile's type of plan.

We need Democrats like Donna like we need a bipartisan Katrina commission run only by Republicans.

Where in the name of heaven is Ms. Brazile's outrage? Where is her humanity? Where is her political understanding of this moment? Gone with the frickin' wind, I'm afraid.

[Tigress DEM]

83. So WHO besides Donna would you trust to run the hotline?

From what people are saying she is not trustworthy, but who COULD you trust to run the hotline, so that we can have the proof we need to body slam these cheating rethugs when they try it again?

[flyarm]

109. certainly not this lady who luncheons with rove!!..

thats like putting a big hunk of juicy sirloin in a cage with a hungry tiger!!

fly

[Tigress DEM]

112. Agreed, so National 1-888-DEM-VOTE is a better answer.

Howard Dean DNC - already on it.

[Tigress DEM]

152. edit - same hotline

see my post near top of list.

[flyarm]

113. irst let me address this..disinfrachisement can be called in..

but we can not see what goes on inside the machines..we can not see what is in the tabulators..we can do almost nothing when people vote for one candidate at the precincts that keep getting the other party when the vote for the opposite person..because in many states we can not get close enough to the machines to know the voters are having problems!

so what good it 1800 anything??

have you voted with them yet??

we have had 3 electionss stolen in fla..so lewt me give you a clue..donna has done nothing and 1800 isn't going to do a damn thing!

fly

[Tigress DEM]

120. "what good is 1800 anything??" We need to address BOTH parts of the prob.

I for one would like this hotline up TODAY, because Ohio is already supressing and monkeying with voter registration by putting in place obnoxious requirements AGAIN.

It isn't a question of which is a worse problem, it is a question of being able to document and challange each and every abuse by the rethugs.

Some sharp people in FL did get that whole "felon list" purge thing dealt with and that helped at least with the popular vote in 2000 and we were on watch for it in 2004.

Let's say that 80% vote for DEMS and all the straw polls show it and voters report every suspicious event and it shows that the rethug got 80% and you have enough documentation to show that it's an obvious vote flip because there are people in the streets in numbers that show the truth, like in Russia, we CAN do this, but we have to have every means to gather the information in place.

Ohio continues to break my heart. Anything we can do to give them all the support we can for fair and honest elections I feel has to be done and Florida is much the same.... worse. You guys already have a govenor who is a puppet for *ush.

To me if they convince us to give up, that is when we have lost. Regardless of when the ballots are cast and what the outcome shows.

[flyarm]

123. where is donna when we scream all over the country about these voting

machines..no where..we just had a SOE test on our machines 3 days ago in Pinellas co fla..the test failed..it failed with the new software..so what does the SOE do..she loads the machines with the old software to try to make the fucking machines pass...and where the fuck is donna when we have screamed and begged for help in fla..so do you think 1800 donna is going to fucking help us..fuck no!

i have been a poll watcher at large for primaries , for early vote and general..i have myself screamed for help...and called directly to donna in washington..to no avail

its only people on the ground using their own money, their own time and devotion..and where the fuck is donna..having lunch with karl rove..fuck her!




Voting system finally passes
A voting rights advocate, however, says after the test that she wouldn't trust the machines.
By WILL VAN SANT, Times Staff Writer
Published August 18, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After having failed the first time around, Pinellas County's voting system passed a pre-election check on Thursday.

Voting machines will be delivered to polling sites today so that early voting for the Sept. 5 primary can begin as scheduled on Monday.

The result was a good one for Supervisor of Elections Office officials, who on Wednesday had grappled with a voting system that fell short during what's called a logic and accuracy test.

But voting rights advocates who observed the process were not impressed.

"I wouldn't trust these machines," said Linda McGeehan, a vice president of the St. Petersburg League of Women Voters. "I feel much more insecure now after seeing this."

The logic and accuracy test involves running a controlled election with a determined outcome and seeing whether the system delivers a correct result.

Election officials said they ran two tests of the system before Wednesday's failed one. In each case, the result was a success: the control and final results matched.

The way the second test was held Thursday irked the League of Women Voters' McGeehan.

Under state law, logic and accuracy tests are open to public scrutiny. Yet for much of the day, McGeehan said the ability to observe was constrained.

And promises by election officials to provide an explanation for the system's initial failure were slow in coming.

Supervisor of Elections Deborah Clark said it had been decided to first attempt a successful test before addressing the concerns of observers like McGeehan so that delays to her office's work schedule could be avoided.

[Tigress DEM]

134. Knowing WHY the old software passed and the new failed would help.

Older software can have compatability issues with newer methods of tampering, but it still isn't safe if there is a means and a way to obtain older methods of tampering.


Still, there is a plan to totally disenfranchise voters in oh so many other ways. rethugs are going for overkill like happened in Ohio. They are pulling out all the stops, so we have to have people manning that hotline that we can trust. If we can't trust Donna, then there has to be a watchdog organization in place to make sure she holds up her end of the deal.

[flyarm]

217. like happened in ohio..well let me let you in on a clue..fla was

worse than ohio..and no one paid a damn bit of attention to it!!

so do tell me where was donna...and her fucking hotline in 2004???

yes we had a hotline..that was worthless!!

it was like a nipple in the mouth, so no one could hear us screaming in fla!!

did any of you hear about all the probs we had in fla??

nooo didn't think so!

how about boxes and boxes of destroyed absentee ballots ..did you hear about that..and we had a fucking hotline!

did you hear about boxes of absentee ballots lost under desks in the supervisors office ?

yes under tables and desks "in the supervisors office".that were never found until after she certified the votes??

that were never counted..but she sure as hell found 7000 votes just before certification.. for the gambling inititive ..to save gambling for jeb and his buddies!!

and do remember..we had a hotline!!

infact we had papers and counts and all sorts of reporting forms as poll watchers that the dem party took from us the night of the election..in hindsight i wish i never turned mine over to the dem party people..otherwise i could have gone directly to the newspapers instead of counting on donna..and her band of neo cons!



fly

[flyarm]

218. well we can count on this /.we will never get the answer..but putting the

old software may not be legal as the new software is what is ceritifed...but it failed miserably..where the fuck was donna??

other than donna assuring our party leaders in our county..there is "no problem at all with the machines!"

fly

[Tigress DEM]

136. AND I don't like anything about officials covering up mach probs.

[flyarm]

90. read about our dear donna..

here is a lovely article ...about our sweet donna!!

http://www.leftgatekeepers.com/articles/MissingLinkHowRightWingNeoConsCreatedDemocraticLeadershipCouncilByMicheleSteinberg.htm
Missing Link: How Right-Wing Neo-Cons
Created `Democratic Leadership Council'
by Michele Steinberg

Missing Link: How Right-Wing Neo-Cons Created
'Democratic Leadership Council'


In a May 21, 2003 op-ed in the Wall Street Journal, Donna Brazile,
the former campaign manager of the 2000 Gore-Lieberman campaign,
and co-author Timothy Bergreen blasted the Democratic Presidential
candidates for questioning the Iraq War "victory." Brazile, who
based her op-ed on a speech she had delivered to the SDUSA
conference, told Democrats, "We are AWOL on national security." To
correct that, she maintained, Democrats must adopt the policies of
"Sen. Scoop Jackson--the Democratic mentor of some of today's most
prominent Republican hawks."

As EIR reported on July 4, Brazile--a member of the Democratic
National Committee, which ostensibly makes all the major decisions
about funding, policy, and program for Democratic candidates--has
already forged a marriage with the Republican neo-cons at the
think-tank called the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies.
Her colleagues there include the hard-core advocates of a "World
War IV," such as James Woolsey and Newt Gingrich, both members of
the Defense Policy Board.

Brazile's line was also pushed in a May 1 Washington Post op-ed
called "The Blair Democrats: Ready for Battle," by DLC leader Will
Marshall. He wrote, "The U.S.-led coalition's stunning success in
liberating Iraq is undoubtedly a triumph for President Bush. But
Karl Rove shouldn't get too giddy.... After all, four of the
leading Democratic Presidential contenders--Rep. Dick Gephardt and
Sens. Joseph Lieberman, John Kerry and John Edwards--not only
voted to support the war but also joined British Prime Minister
Tony Blair in demanding that Bush challenge the United Nations to
live up to its responsibilities to disarm Iraq.... Like Bush,
these Democrats did not shrink from the use of force to end
Hussein's reign of terror. Like Blair, they saw the Iraq crisis as
a test of Western resolve."

Few better exemplars exist to show that the DLC's "New Democrats"
are "a second Republican Party." Brazile, Al From, Will Marshall,
and the other DLC types who push the line that "after 9/11,
security matters above all," are showing their roots--as hard-core
neo-cons.

[Tigress DEM]

94. NO NEED. 1-888-DEM-VOTE Problem already has a solution.

DLC is not a group I support and I won't spend my time reading up on someone who many DUers strongly object to because that isn't the way I focus my energy. I hear what people are saying and I have not ONCE defended this woman despite slurs to the contrary. I have simply stated OVER AND OVER again that the idea has merit and we could use a hotline in place NOW.

The DNC which is NOT the DLC has a hotline in place and plans to be there for 38 states with a projected 12 million budget for 38 states.

So I have found an alternative that I can support and I will spend my energy, well, supporting it. Getting the word out that we don't need Donna's stinkin' help... we got someone already on the job.

Could we help the DNC raise funds to get this hotline going in all 50 states? Isn't that what the voters deserve? We got 90,000+ loud mouth DUers to shout it from the roof tops if needed.

We could make a difference or we can wallow in how terrible this Donna is for even trying to suggest that we trust her with the idea.

You make your decision however you see fit, after all, for the moment it still is a free country.... limited time offer brought to you by the rethugs.

[flyarm]

143. you can not document these machines!

just try...durning an election..and it depends on your state..here in fla as a poll watcher i wasn't even allowed in the room where the machines were!

i did a test one of 5 people in my county in fla..a blind test..meaning the papers were blind ot us on the votes...

the first three papers i got were kerry votes...

1st paper..took 3 times to get kerry to register

2nd paper..took 5 times for kerry to register

3rd paper took 9 times for kerry to register..

so tell me what votes were tabulated in the machine??

everytime kerry was put in on this machine it came up a bush vote..

it was all recorded ..and what was done about it..nothing!@

in fact the paper the next day said there were no problems..why??

donna didn't think it was important enough to send anyone to the test..

and the dlc has done everythinbg to shut up the dem party in my couty of fla about the voting machines...
they won't even acknowledge there is a problem....

period...

and i am a dem delegate for my county! and have been a pollwatcher at large..

fly

[Tigress DEM]

159. I hear your frustration.

I agree we have two issues here, but it isn't an either/or and if Donna is a problem she needs to go and we need to get someone in place who will work for us on this.

As DEMs I think it is appropriate for us to demand that we have competent people in charge of important things. Donna has a poor track record and without having to go down the road where we get into hurt feelings we can still lobby for someone who the public finds more suitable to head the hotline.

John Conyers was able to document 900 pages of testimony because hotlines were available to people in Ohio, but was not able to get that information together in time for some reason. I am looking for a solution that utilizes 12 million already in place FOR the people, not as a political maneuver, but as long as we can be fairly certain we can get what we must have, proof AND cooperation in moving that proof thru due process, then I don't care if a little red monkey takes credit for it.

I just want my country back and we need evidence to impeach or imprison offenders who mess with the vote.

Do you hear what I am saying?

[flyarm]

207. i hear what you are saying..but

what i have been saying for 3 elections already stolen in fla..with the damn machines..the dem party would be better to hire their own exit poller

and have those numbers ready from moment one after polls close..

that is where the money should be spent ..on a credible exit polling for our elections paid by the dem party to make sure we are getting who we are voting for.

but at our fla convention damn we had most of the leaders in the party ignore the voting forums..we had state exec's rolling their eyes and walking in and walking right out..they would not listen, they did not want to hear about it..

they deliberately have blind folds on..i used to think it was ignorance..now i believe it is deliberate ignorance!

i have talked directly to Bill Nelson about this and he rolls his eyes..i have talked and others have talked to Jim Davis..he makes jokes about it..THEN ROLLS HIS EYES!

now tonight i just get a report from my people on the ground..Duvall county is going to send the machines home with staff..rather than have the supervisor office delivering the machines to precincts

many many of us have tried desperately to contact Brazile..she ignores us..

hell i paid for a big chunk of the audit our county did on the machines..me..not the dems..me out of my pocket!

and out of the pockets of our wonderful citizens who give a damn!

and you know what..the auditor had no protocol..none..he had no way to audit the damn machines!

it was an exercise in the ridiculous! for two days the guy did a bogus audit because there was no way to audit!

so where is donna brazile??

she sure as hell hasn't helped us in 3 elections in fla..

our good citizens have been working their asses off ..and paying for everything out of their own pockets..and exhaustive time..only to have the dems turn their backs on us!

fly

oh and p.s. i spent 15 hours a day poll watching in the 2004 ( i was one of only 2 at learge poll watchers..so i could be moved around where i was needed) early vote for 2 weeks..then the gerneral for almosat 18 hours..to try to make sure we had fair elections..well i will tell you we had anything ..but.. fair elections..because if you can not verify votes..there will never be fair elections..i could not see into the machines..(except for early in the am to check the zero's on the paper spool..and at the end of the day to see how many people had voted on each machine)....i wasn't even allowed to see the machines in one election office i worked..could not see the machines i was kept out in the main office far from the machines..and voters..

and the two ny lawyers i had supposed to help me??... almost got in a fist fight with the asshole 300 lb bubba the soe had over seeing the election..then when the lawyers left, i had to put up with 3 days of the asshole trying to intimidate me..

anyone else might have cried..and left running....but i am a jersey gal..and a almost lifelong flight attendant..i do not get intimidated! by anyone!

but the dem party..they were awol!

[Tigress DEM]

29. ----------------------Zing! Good shot!

Instead of focusing on the real point that we NEED Vote Reform, people will attack the messenger and make US DEMS look, well dumb as shit because we can't stop arguing long enough to get the job done.

[fooj]

32. And WHO is it that talks about division in th party?

I think that we are way past realizing that we need VOTE REFORM. What an inspiring message to put out there less than 2.5 months before an election. It takes a real genius to figure that out.

[Tigress DEM]

42. Sometimes people have to see what it feels like to quit their pettiness

I may approve of standing up to bullying behavior and pointing out that WE need to work together, but as far as facts I don't see any from you either.

To me DONNA isn't the point as much as the idea we need to DO something NOW. It's only 2.5 months before 2006 elections, but if we get it in place NOW then we can have it for 2008 as well. AND I would like to see it turned on NOW and that is what I said earlier.

People who just want to bitch and complain about how others don't do it good enough don't impress me. I can watch FAUX news if I want to hear that kind of commentary.

[fooj]

51. Donna IS the point.

Google, Donna, Brazile, News

It's very simple.

[Tigress DEM]

59. Not if you care about getting Vote Reform, she isn't.

I get it that you don't trust her and TC links her to Karl Rove... so that tells me a lot, but YOU are being blinded by your hatred for this person and not thinking about how could WE take the idea of a hotline to report election related abuses and make it happen?

Take Donna out of the picture, don't rent her any space in your brain. I'm sure she would be flattered that you spend so much time looking on the internet for her comings and goings -- if she's the type of person you imply she is - a consumate politician jumping on a good idea to get publicity, then probably she's just glad for any attention. Negative hits, positive hits, it's still publicity.


What if DU ran the hotline?

What if Wes Clark's people ran the hotline?

[ProSense]

55. Come again?

People who just want to bitch and complain about how others don't do it good enough don't impress me.

Yet, you are impressed by Brazile's "they're dumb as shit" comment.

I seriously hope this is media spin:

Brazile is trying to recruit Al Gore and John Kerry to the effort, but neither has yet signed on. She also faults Emanuel, who is feuding with party chief Howard Dean over strategy, for not doing enough to support the party's effort. "They don't get it - they're as dumb as shit," she says. "It makes me want to smash something. I want to go and have a conversation with Rahm: 'You want to take back the House? So what are going to do to protect people's right to vote?' If you want to win, it has to be part of your campaign plan. Period."

She seems to be implying that Gore and Kerry don't get it. Where has Brazile, in all her vocalness, been over the past two years?

[fooj]

62. Been busy rallying support for Little Lord Pissypants...

http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/09/donna-brazile-stockholm-syndrome.html

See for yourself. If you'd like more on Saint Donna, feel free to GOOGLE, DONNA, BRAZILE, NEWS. Plenty to go around. Geez........

[Tigress DEM]

66. Truth is the truth, no matter who speaks it.

IF we spend our time fighting about this instead of using this powerful forum to find a way to make it work with people we can trust then we are complicit with our own doom and dumb as shit.

WE don't HAVE to be dumb as shit. WE usually aren't.

BUT when it comes to these inflamatory issues we go off into the flames, like idiots rushing into a burning building without so much as a bucket of water.... no worse we stap gasoline on our backs and go in and make the flames higher.

IF 90,000+ registered DUers want a hotline for reporting election related abuse and we pull together and get someone we trust to run it, we could get it done.

Instead this thread is wallowing on DONNA is a Bitch!

God, I feel like I'm in grade school here.

[fooj]

68. I hear you...why don't you address this response to the person who

started this thread? Just don't fancy being called "dumb as shit" by a known "operative" of the DLC. I find it offensive.

[Tigress DEM]

74. Well, thing is, there is a cure for being called, "dumb" and you know

what it is, or you wouldn't be on DU or recommending to research information.

I still think that when we spend our time fighting with each other the rethugs breathe a collective sigh of relief because of the respite they are getting from our constant vigilance.

So if someone says that I am dumb as shit for not doing more on election reform and I see it is true, I don't take offense as much as I decide to do something to make that statement untrue.

Success is the sweetest revenge, especially when it comes honestly and not thru perverted means.

[fooj]

77. Agreed.

[Totally Committed]

75. "Just don't fancy being called 'dumb as shit' by a known 'operative'...

of the DLC. I find it offensive."

Ditto, ditto, ditto, DITTO!

She never gave a rat's ass about Election Reform before. I refuse to allow her to insult me over it now.

TC

[Tigress DEM]

78. Are we REALLY that thin skinned?

Who CARES what she is saying or doing?

IF the idea of a hotline to report abuse is viable, we should all do whatever we can to get it in place?

Who CAN be trusted with running such a hotline?

League of Women Voters?

[AtomicKitten]

70. yahtzee

Some can't see the forest for the trees.

Rather than focusing on the message of election fraud vis a vis critical analysis, this became oh so predictably a launching pad to trash the messenger.

Donna Brazile is not the point, yet I can count on one hand the people that actually understand that.

[fooj]

73. Where have you been regarding election fraud, Kitten?

Don't see you posting much on the Election Reform threads. What a joke.

[AtomicKitten]

81. your deduction is moot

I worked with Rush Holt's office on HR-2239 and am currently working through CODE PINK here in SF.

I find that work infinitely more productive than posting on a discussion forum. N'est-ce pas?

On edit: You've attacked Donna Brazile and now me. How does that address the point of this OP which is election fraud? Just wondering.

[fooj]

122. YOU STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED OUR QUESTIONS>>>

Stop with the "victim" routine. It's tiring. I didn't START this thread and INSULT hard working dems (like the one you've got in your sig line)...YOU DID THAT! Glad to hear that the $50 you "won" was worth all of that. You attacked. Donna attacked.

I don't do business with people who "swap" ideas with Karl Rove. Period.

[fooj]

76. Guess you don't mind that she implied those 2 people in your pic

ARE DUMB AS SHIT. Whatever. YOU can't see the forest through the trees. Don't lecture those of us who have worked OUR COLLECTIVE ASSES OFF...

[ProSense]

72. Donna Brazile just said that leaders of the party are "dumb as shit."

for not doing something that I for one cannot associate her with doing anything about. What did you expect?

[fooj]

67. Pettiness? Since when is standing up for truth considered "petty"?

Who called who "dumb as shit"? There is your answer to pettiness.

How dare that venomous worm call us "dumb as shit"?

[Tigress DEM]

86. We handled this in post 77.

Peace.

[mrdmk]

79. Lets do the math

Donna Brasile sez here in August (month number 8) she wants 3 million dollars to secure voting rights for the vote here November (month number eleven) to do something about voter suppression. Well that gives her three months (I am being generous) to collect and utilize three million dollars for a problem that took her one year to write a report on. Not to mention that report has been circulation for over six months. If you want to waste your money on a project that is a day late and a dollar short, go right ahead.

[Tigress DEM]

89. WHO beside db COULD get the hotline up in less than 3 months?

What happened to American ingenuity?

You get a 800 number turned on, hire people and/or get volunteers to man the phones and have enough sever power to record every call for evidence or at least to take overflow calls in a voicemail queue and advertise extensively.

Maybe you'd need more than 3 million to do it, but come on, this isn't rocket science, it's a hotline.

[Tigress DEM]

95. Howard Dean & the DNC have a hotline in place 1-888-DEM-VOTE

Spread the word!!


:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Tigress DEM]

Same hotline and good funding. HOW can we make this work?

If Donna can't be trusted, how can we get her out of there and someone competent and reliable in to get this hotline working as it should and give US DEMs the ability to trust in the followup on information gathered?

[mrdmk]

107. Those hotlines are already in place. Besides you do not get the point.

The point is, this problem has been occurring for the past six years and anybody who has made this ongoing problem public has been called a "conspiracy theorist" on the premise, "this is the United States and these things just do not happen here!". To further the point, what else is there besides setting up hotlines at this point, there just is not enough time to even collect three million dollars and properly use it.

Besides, it took a lot of brow beating to get the 1965 voting rights act passed again here in 2006.

As for the hotlines, how do you think we have the information that we do on this voter suppression, from thin air?

This plan Donna Brasile has, is the same collect the information and do nothing, something she is very good at.

[Tigress DEM]

116. We can agree to disagree. Far as I am concerned...

If Dean and the DNC have a hotline in place and funding for 38 states, then to me the real solution is to use DU to up their funding and get all 50 states covered.

If people feel inclined to beat Donna, that is their call, but it makes us as DEMs look like people who can't get along even though out of our mouths we talk about peace and diversity.

I KNOW there IS a HUGE difference when it is someone who is just using this as political manuvering, but the smart answer is to tell Donna that there is a hotline set up and their budget is more prepared to handle the volume, so if SHE were a true DEM she would raise the money and put it to good use there.

It's like KUNG-FU or other martial arts, use her energy against her and go with the flow of it. She still winds up on her ass, but it's less work for you.

Just a suggestion.

[Kolesar]

210. There's some real bullshit posts on this thread

Note all the terse threads with a lot of white space with simple messages like "I hate Brazile" and not much more.

[AZBlue]

219. "never talks as strongly as when she's bitching about and criticizing

other Democrats."

Seems like a plague here on DU.
(seems like a self-diagnosis as well)

[brentspeak]

2. Brazile, no genius herself

manages to insert foot into own mouth once again, this time by calling the Democrats "dumb as $hit." Couldn't think of a better way of getting your message across?

[goclark]

4. Why didn't she protect the vote in 2000!

I'll never trust her,never.


She is always on the talk shows talking mush mouth about Democrats.

She thinks we are "dumb as shit" and we may be but coming out of her mouth is an insult. :puke:

[Totally Committed]

6. Thank you.

I rest my case. She's real big on ranking out other Dems for doing the things she disd to help get us where we are today.

She must be trying to look tough, so some poor Democratic scmuck will hire her for his or her 2008 camapign. GMAFB!

TC

[demosincebirth]

We are dumb as shit, because

we have have let the republicans steal the last two presidential election. Florida in '00 and Ohio in '04 and probably just sit back and watch them pilfer the mid-term elections.
It pisses me off to think about our leadership just sitting back and taking this thievery that seems to happen, now, quite regularly. I say, sometimes, whats the use! We do our part and hand 'em the ball and they fumble every time.

[Greyhound]

186. Have they fumbled the ball, or have they done exactly as they always

intended to do with it? For myself, I do not believe that the Democratic "leaders" are dumb-shits, quite the contrary, they know exactly what it is that they are doing.

Think about this, what have the last three stolen elections cost them? Are they out of work? Do they have to work two, three, or four jobs to make ends meet? Are their pensions being stolen to fund executive "golden parachutes"? Have they suffered any consequences at all due to their inaction?

No, this is the same shell-game of false choices they have been playing on us forever.

[MH1]

7. Why ** THE FUCK ** did they put BRAZILE in that position?

OF COURSE Gore and Kerry won't sign on. She backstabbed Kerry before the ink on the vote tallies was dry in 2004, and I'm sure Gore knows her better than he wishes he did.

I don't think Brazile "gets" squat - except some idea in her mind as to how she can screw over Dems some more.

[Totally Committed]

9. Again, very, very astute!

:thumbsup:

TC

[madfloridian]

11. McAuliffe, a Clinton guy, appointed her.

.

[Totally Committed]

15. Of course he did... should have known.

:puke:

TC

[MissWaverly]

13. also, why didn't she start this right after 2004

why wait until more states have fallen underneath the electronic push of Diebold. What are you
going to do with 90 days until the election. Too little, too late.

[Totally Committed]

17. She was too busy telling Kerry to shut up and sit down, or

he'd look like a sore loser.

TC

[MissWaverly]

19. I know that, I have seen her on the talk shows

How is it that the GOP never admit wrongdoing and the Dems spokespeople never admit that the
Dems do anything right.

[Totally Committed]

40. Great insight, there, Ms. Waverly! --

"How is it that the GOP never admit wrongdoing and the Dems spokespeople never admit that the
Dems do anything right."

Outstanding!

TC

[MissWaverly]

50. thank you

and the bottom line is that this country has been seriously hurt by this bias.

The meme is the Republicans Can Do No Wrong
and
the Democrats Can Do No Right

FDR beat Hitler and he did it in less time than George Bush has had on Iraq and all we hear
is a mumbling of stay the course. And the Democrats did a lot to make this country a better
place to live for everybody with Social Security, Medicare, roads, EPA, etc. I have seen
little that this current administration has done but refuse to take responsibility and trash
our country.

[Totally Committed]

54. Very well-said!

:yourock:

TC

[MissWaverly]

64. did you hear that the verdict against Custer Battles was voided

It now appears that the CPA in Iraq was not part of the US government, so the guilty verdict
did not count. If it was not part of the US government then what was it? Paul Bremer was
sent there to oversee it; but those who illegally profited who are US citizens cannot be
prosecuted? Another caveat brought to us by the Bush Administration. How many times has
Bush asked us to trust him?

[Tigress DEM]

175. Let me guess, employed by Haliburton's overseas subsidiary?

All these off shore companies that the uber rich use to avoid paying taxes also are used as screens to avoid US laws in other ways.

Haliburton gave money to Iran to pump up their nuclear program all the while Chenney and *ush were crying that Iran was a threat to US with their attempt to build a nuclear program... So, georgie boy, slap dickie over the head and tell him to stop letting his rogue company give money to Iran to build nukes if you are so worried about it.

[MissWaverly]

180. No, I think this was just a small company

Yet when the two whistle-blowers sued Custer Battles on behalf of the U.S. government—under a U.S. law intended to punish war profiteering and fraud—the Bush administration declined to take part. "The government has not lifted a finger to get back the $50 million Custer Battles defrauded it of," says Alan Grayson, a lawyer for the two whistle-blowers, Pete Baldwin and Robert Isakson.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7306162/site/newsweek/

[Tigress DEM]

189. Yeah, but who hired Custer Battles?

AT & T got out of their legal dilema because they sold our information to a scapegoat company who then sold it to the government.

Haliburton was in Iraq managing a lot of the contract work and if they used their subsidiary in the Carribean to hire Custer Battle, it could technically be considered to be a non-US problem because Haliburton's subsidiary in the Carribean is considered a non-US company, but no way would they want to pursue a lawsuit that would highlight any more of Haliburton's failings in Iraq.

The thing is there is always some little company or scapegoat taking the fall for the decisions of higher ups these days, so I feel there may be more to this story than we know and if I were a gambling person, I'd lay odds that Haliburton or one of their companies was involved in this scam higher up.

[MissWaverly]

198. yes, I thought it unusual that a small company could snag 50 mil

[blm]

30. She also said it's the Dem party's problem of not connecting - - yeah, as

in they are NOT CONNECTED To the owners of the voting machine companies.

Dems and their issues DO CONNECT - but strategists don't make MORTGAGE PAYMENTS on their DC homes by noticing the machines are controlled by GOPs loyal to BushInc. Nope - they just need repositioning to the right, dontcha know?

[Totally Committed]

41. I agree. She's absolutely the WRONG PERSON to be doing this!

This was a bonehead move by whoever made it! Donna needs to be benched.

Sometimes I really DO think this Party has a death-wish.

TC

[Tigress DEM]

176. Me too. Never said I was a fan of Donna, just the hotline idea.

The only thing that makes sense is if she's friendly with Rove only to get intel and/or if they worry that if they let her go now she will go to the other side with what she knows.

Kind of when you don't trust someone in a certain sense, but you would rather have your eyes on them so they can't sneak up and blindside you.

[Totally Committed]

231. We can't afford a mole in the Voter Reform efforts this Party is making...

and her friendship with Rove, along with her seeming willingness to go along with any plan that can give her political power (I mean, she endorsed Bush after Katrina, fercripessake!), I can't trust her, her judgement, her Party loyalty, and she's DLC on top of all of that.

This Party's penchant for shooting itself in the foot, and then hiding under a chair instead of fighting doesn't make me confident that she is the right choice, nor that she would be given the correct oversight while she does the job. Do we REALLY want to wonder about the head of this program if, gawdhelpus, the next elections appear to be stolen? Is this just an example of the other side putting a mole into our program so they not only will know what's going on, but also will give us no recourse to complain when we lose? --- I can hear her now on tv the day after the elections --- "No, there was little or no voter fraud that we could find in this election. I think the Democrats were weak, and lost it fair and square and we'll just have to do better next time..."

The RNC will be in like Flynn, and the DLC will be all set to say "We told you so..." I really, sincerely think this is a set-up, and she's the tip-off we are ignoring if we don't demand a replacement.

I used to really admire Donna. But, over the years since 2000, she has given me more and more reasons no to trust her as far as I can throw her.

TC

[MH1]

43. Why didn't she start it after 2000?

She was Gore's campaign manager, wasn't she?

[madfloridian]

10. Donna says to protect the vote? And she gets condemned for that?

I don't have an opinion on her so much one way or the other, but she gets blasted for not doing enough, and blasted for speaking about needing more done.

[Totally Committed]

12. She's talking out of both sides of her mouth on this...

up until now she's been on the other side of this fight, for sure.

TC

[Kolesar]

211. Citation??? ... eom ...

[blm]

22. Her approach always seems to have a smackdown of Dems attached. We are

ALL for the DNC dealing with the machines, but Brazile's angle is sophomoric and doesn't promote the most important points about the GOPs controlling the machines, while she targets Democrats for ridicule.

It's UNPROFESSIONAL, and reeks of her cronyism with the architects of the machine fraud. She steps on her own story by calling Dems dumb as shit on this. I am quite certain she knows this.

[madfloridian]

26. I don't see the rest of the article.

I have not much opinion of her one way or the other. However, she is being accused of some real bad stuff in this thread, and no proof is shown.

I hate to see anyone accused of stuff and not have it backed up.

[Totally Committed]

60. But, maybe that's just he DLC training talking...

Al From thinks we're dumb as shit, and has few good things to say about us. Ditto his boys, Lieberman, Zell Miller, and all his other attack-dogs.

She just might have forgotten who she was taling to at the time... fair is fair! :sarcasm:

TC

[blm]

16. I implore Dean to rid us of Brazile - she HELPED cover up machine fraud

by acting for years as if Dems were brought down by greater powers like Karl Rove's genius.

It doesn't take GENIUS to rig machines, just criminal intent and the power to pull it off. Power Brazile finds intoxicating.

[Totally Committed]

18. I join you in this!

I absolutely agree with this post 100%!

TC

[madfloridian]

20. Could you offer proof of your accusation? I had not heard that.

?

[blm]

24. Every time she went on TV between 2001 and 2005 it was always the same

refrains. Even after 2004, she was part of the Dem team on election fraud, and she downplayed the machines in her report.

She admires and is close to Rove and it has been documented numerous times here at DU.

[Tigress DEM]

96. Do you think people still confuse DNC and DLC?

I know it took me awhile to sort it out.

As part of the DNC Howard doesn't really have any influence over what Donna and the DLC do, or is he part of both organizations?

[glitch]

91. Not to mention the coverup investigation on election fraud that she did

for the DNC. And now she's a champion? Tsk. What a memory hole, or maybe some folks weren't paying attention awhile back.

[Tigress DEM]

173. If we are to implore Dean to replace Brazile, then we must have...

solid reasons not colored by personal feelings.

People have posted her previous failures to follow thru and possible coverups.

If these things are true and can be proven as intentional rather than merely incompetent, it is a no brainer, but we must approach it with calmness and rock solid committment versus hysterical posting and name calling. Think of Patrick Fitzgerald shaking his head in confusion reading this post. Just the facts folks, then do the right thing.

Even if it is merely incompetence, a plea one in her position might cop to, we should be able to convince Dean to put someone in who has more of the public's trust and something on the resume that says that person will not let us down. *ush finally replaced brownine after Katrina, so US DEMs should lead by example and not tolerate incompetence when the results are vital to the nation's voting process.

[blm]

232. ROBERT F. KENNEDY, JR. would be the right person for this job.

.

[glitch]

238. AWESOME suggestion.

Sorry for yelling, but truly he would be.

[Tigress DEM]

25. Well, people in Ohio and about 5 other states could use the hotline NOW.

Wasn't there an article in Salon that documented election policies in place RIGHT NOW that will screw things up in at least 6 states? I know the League of Women Voters is backing down on voter registration drives in 6 states because the laws are so absurdly strict as to make registering voters a criminal offence.

Something about if your driver's liscense says you live on Jones Dr. and you write Jone's Drive it is qualified as a "falsified" registration because it doesn't match "exactly" and therefore the person and/or group registering you is liable to face criminal prosecution.

[madfloridian]

34. There was a Hot Line, there has been one.

The DNC has had a number set up, lawyers organizing.

If you wish I can do a search for DNC voting hotline, or maybe you could.

[Tigress DEM]

92. Good old D "N" C --- howya doin' MAD? long time.

NOT to be confused with the DLC.... The DNC is on the ball already.


Found some info on bradblog

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3176

<snip>
FROM THE DNC RELEASE for AUG 3


DNC Announces Expanded National Voter Protection Effort

National 1-888-DEM-VOTE Voter Protection Hotline To Help Voters Across the Country Participate in our Democracy

Washington, DC - Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean today announced the DNC's expanded national voter protection efforts. In addition to the establishment of a national voter protection hotline and the placement of election protection staff in 15 key states, the DNC is implementing a comprehensive series of efforts aimed at helping Americans register to vote, learn how and where to cast their ballot, and provide assistance in overcoming Republican-led efforts to suppress voter turnout for the November elections.

These voter protection initiatives are part of Governor Dean's unprecedented investment in Democratic get-out-the-vote efforts for the 2006 elections. Under his leadership, the DNC has committed $12 million to help elect Democrats at every level in 38 states across America–roughly 10 times the hard money the DNC spent four years ago for coordinated campaigns.

[Tigress DEM]

102. Can I say how I love the way you walk in with solution in hand?

People running around screaming about Donna... and you calmly state, "There is a hotline."

I love it.

[Tigress DEM]

161. I feel slightly duped, Mad. Same hotline.

And Donna is the chair of the committee handling the voting rights hotline.

Why do you need to be so slick?

[flyarm]

243. ARE YOU NOT UNDERSTANDING??

we had a hotline in 2004 in fla and it didn't help us a damn bit!!

not just ohio was stolen we were stolen big time but donna the bitch made sure that was kept quite with her fucking hotlo=ine and all the paper work they had us fill out and it went down the bunny hole for no one to ever see!

its too late when the election is on..we need help when the fucking machines fail in the tests before the damn elections..and we get no support whatsoever,..from donna fucking brazile!

none..

[fooj]

27. The only people who are as "dumb as SHIT" are the people who

buy her SUDDEN CONCERN for our Democracy. BWAHAHAHAHA! Guess you haven't been paying much attention, AtomicKitten. She hasn't earned the credibility that you so graciously have bestowed upon her.

[madfloridian]

37. Does that make me "dumb as shit" also. Wow...hot topic.

So if I say don't accuse people without proof, that makes me dumb as shit.

[fooj]

47. GOOGLE, DONNA, BRAZILE, NEWS...

There's the proof.

[madfloridian]

53. Proof that I am dumb as shit? Oh, come on.

This is a ridiculous thread.

[fooj]

57. No. Not that you are "dumb as shit"...I would never imply that.

Yes. This is a devisive thread. We didn't start it, however. And there are facts out there to prove that she is hardly a candidate for sainthood as far as the Dems go. Don't take this so personally. This isn't about you.

[Tigress DEM]

99. So don't buy her "sudden concern" there IS a hotline and she has no part.

Problem solved. Drop Donna in the dust and move on.

DNC is NOT the DLC, btw

<snip>

AUG 3 DNC Press Release

National 1-888-DEM-VOTE Voter Protection Hotline To Help Voters Across the Country Participate in our Democracy

Washington, DC - Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean today announced the DNC's expanded national voter protection efforts. In addition to the establishment of a national voter protection hotline and the placement of election protection staff in 15 key states, the DNC is implementing a comprehensive series of efforts aimed at helping Americans register to vote, learn how and where to cast their ballot, and provide assistance in overcoming Republican-led efforts to suppress voter turnout for the November elections.

These voter protection initiatives are part of Governor Dean's unprecedented investment in Democratic get-out-the-vote efforts for the 2006 elections. Under his leadership, the DNC has committed $12 million to help elect Democrats at every level in 38 states across America–roughly 10 times the hard money the DNC spent four years ago for coordinated campaigns.

[Tigress DEM]

165. Sorry, same hotline. But if this is in place can we make it work?

Can we en-masse flood DNC with the request that someone we can trust to do a good job will be put in place of someone that has a bad track record of producing results?

I mean isn't this the equivilant of getting "brownine" dismissed after katrina? Someone who is seen as above reproach and has been a constant supporter of voter's rights - maybe someone who has pitched in with Conyers on his forays into these issues?

[flyarm]

244. we had that same HOTLINE IN 2004 ..IT DIDN'T DO SHIT! N/T

[AZBlue]

221. Why is it no one's allowed to change? Why work against your own cause?

You and others on this site scream, cry, bitch, moan, and plead for change. In this case, you want voter reform, you want to protect votes and to ensure accurate elections. I'm right with you there.

As for Donna, no, I don't think she did do the right thing earlier regarding this situation (and that's all I'll say on her previous behavior because I don't want to encourage more flames here - and that's not the point, anyway).

However, now she is taking the right stand and is getting the word out. Taking a stand that supports a cause you supposedly fight for and getting the word out to increase that support as well as the chances of actual reform.

And that's a bad thing to you.

HUH?

I see it all the time on here. You want awareness of your cause, you want people to wake up and see the light...yet, when you get that, you bitch. There's no stronger proponent of change as someone who's changed their views and now sees that light. Don't you get that?? Do you really want change or do you just want to bitch?

[DeepModem Mom]

31. Thanks for posting! nt

[journalist3072]

35. SHE was the head of the DNC Voting Rights Institute!

After the Florida debacle of 2000, the DNC established a Voting Rights Institute, and they chose DONNA BRAZILE to head it. That was HER domain!

And she sat on her ass.

[MH1]

46. Ah. No wonder she attacked Kerry after the election

She needed to change the subject.

:eyes:

[journalist3072]

58. Exactly! You know, during the 2004 campaign,

I was wondering where she was. I kept thinking that the DNC's Voting Rights Institute needed to be ON THE GROUND in places like Ohio, well before election day, explaining to people their rights and responsibilities when it comes to voting.

But Donna Brazile did nothing. So she really needs to shut up. Under her so-called "leadership" the DNC VRI was nothing.

[flyarm]

98. exactly..we in Pinellas fla were begging for help for the 2004 election

and what did they send to help us..lawyers who were clueless to the state law
( many were from out of state).. and even more clueless to the machines..many had never seen the machines we were voting on before..the 2 Ny lawyers i had said they never saw the machines before ,.because NY didn't have dre machines!

we screamed we needed computer geeks..not freaking lawyers!

what did donna do???????? nothing!

i was a poll watcher at large..in early and general election ..and i finally gave up calling for help..when it was needed so badly!

the lawyers were clueless to help us

fly

[blm]

100. Exactly - it was HER job to counter GOP tactics BEFORE the 2004 election

and she is part of the DNC team that said machines were NOT being rigged all the while the the machines were not only being rigged but Dem votes were being suppressed in every way legal and extralegal that the GOP could swing it. Where was she? On TV regularly giving halfhearted coverage of Dem issues.

If the article from Kennedy hadn't come out, would she be saying anything today or continuing the coverup?

[flyarm]

246. OMG HOW RIGHT YOU ARE..ALL THE DEC LEADERS WE HAD

were all given the donna brazile talking points..there was nothing wrong with the machines.
i went out public speaking about the machines more than a year before the 2004 election and i was basically told to shut up by the dec in my county in fla..because that was the donna brazile talking points..

shut up look over there..there is nothing wrong here...

i did a public speaking even with Max Cleland the first day of early vote in 2004 in fla.. and i begged and asked where the hell is donna and the dnc about these damn machines..all he could do is shrug..he knew we were screwed in fla..

we were deserted in fla by donna brazile in 2000 , 2002 , and 2004!

SHE DID NOTHING BUT TELL US ..IF WE GOT MORE VOTERS OUT WE COULD WIN OVER THE RETHUGS STEALING THE ELECTION WITH THE MACHINES,.,THAT WAS DONNA BRAZILE'S STRATEGY! THE OTHER STRATEGY WAS ABSENTEE BALLOTS.. and that was bullshit..that only gives the rethugs a better chance to steal the election..because then they have %'s and have forewarning of how much they have to steal the election by!

same with early vote..dems were told to do early vote..well that gives the rethugs a real good idea how much they have to steal the election by!

some strategy DONNA..

FLY

[Tigress DEM]

128. AH... and she is still chair... hmmmm.

OK, what can we do to make sure there is oversite and it works this time?

Everyone was saying DLC and then I heard DNC had a hotline, but it's the same hotline.

Seems like what we have to work with, so how can we make it work?

[flyarm]

208. you bet she did ..even when we were begging for help in fla in 2004! n/t

[neoblues]

39. Great, Just Great...

Such an important and urgent matter as this (voting rights/preventing voter fraud), being given to someone with such a history of failure and incompetence (groan). A really eloquent spokesperson for the issue as well (ouch). Seems like there really must be an all-powerful invisible conspiracy against the truth out there (my paranoid fantasy is showing).

Donna Brazile and other DLC "Dim·ocrats" standing up on cue (very late in the game) for the sake of appearance and, instead of accomplishing anthing, they complain. Still, to the extent that elected Democrats, especially those in the DNC (who should be well informed), don't understand the implications and very real consequences of failing to address voter fraud, disenfranchisement and other electoral hijinks, the Party has a real problem. You can't fix something unless you first decide that it's both broken and important enough to merit attention.

We'll get what we get. Many Democrats have made outstanding efforts to ensure their local board of elections is going to ensure valid, verifiable results. Alas, there are thousands more individual board of elections that will still be operating behind closed doors (meaning not open to some kind of public scrutiny) and running elections without any useful means by which to verify the votes. Surely this is a problem we can solve; but like the chicken and the egg, it seems we have to overwhelm any fraud/vote suppression to retake at least one house of Congress before we can fully address the issue. If we let Republicans 'address' the issue in Congress (as was done after the 2000 debacle), we'll just get laws and regulations that actually help to ensure fraud and prevent efforts to ensure honest elections--amazing.

[flyarm]

101. here is a little clue on the dlc..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

Still other critics believe the DLC has essentially become an influential corporate and right-wing implant in the Democratic party. Among the DLC's leadership are individuals with impressive right-wing credentials, such as Marshall Wittmann, a senior fellow at the DLC and the former legislative director for the Christian Coalition, and Will Marshall, a cosigner of a letter issued by the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) endorsing not only the Iraq War, but also an overall foreign policy similar to neoconservatism. Finally, detractors of the DLC note that the DLC receives funding from the right-wing Bradley Foundation as well as from oil companies, military contractors, and various Fortune 500 companies.

[fooj]

44. 4 WORDS...GOOGLE, DONNA, BRAZILE, NEWS...

and then CHOKE on your dirty money.

Check out her comments about Lamont. Check out the PRAISE she sings for Bush.

I don't need a lecture from the likes of you. Period.

[Kolesar]

212. Post something....eom

[madfloridian]

45. This thread with all the accusations worries me.

I am not a Donna defender, but this is going overboard in condemning her and attacking her.

[fooj]

48. You need to read the OP again...

Who attacked who? Really...

I expect projection from the Repubs but not from members of my own party.

[MissWaverly]

56. I am not supporting anyone who says Dems are Dumb as Shit

Sorry, as the bible says "By their actions, you shall know them."

[MH1]

61. She is not trustworthy.

My point - I can't speak for others - is that you can't expect Gore or Kerry to trust her with anything important, given their experiences with her.

Well, let me put that another way. I don't know Gore's experience with her. But if she is trying to get his support in election reform and he is steering clear, I think that says more about Brazile's inability to lead than Gore not being interested in voting reform.

The thing after the election with Kerry was atrocious. Within just a few days of the election, she went publicly in the media attacking him about having money left over. There are a ton of reasons why that happened, and some of the reasons may be campaign mistakes - but others are a) there were primary $ he legally couldn't spend b) a large sum was late donations that frankly, the campaign couldn't turn into action quickly enough. Gore's campaign also had a lot of money left over - and she was Gore's campaign manager. Even if she had a valid point - and there definitely are potential lessons learned there - the way she did it screams "Donna's own agenda" - and the timing was frankly inhuman. Even if it was valid and for some reason needed to be aired publicly, it could have waited. (unless as I speculate upthread, she needed to change the subject) She earned "b*tch" next to her name for all time with me when she did that - and I wasn't even the huge Kerry supporter then that I am now - I just thought it was about the lowest class, most mean-spirited thing a person calling themself a Democrat could do. (she probably helped convert me - she helped me see what Kerry was really up against)

Someone upthread said that she was head of the VRI since shortly after 2000. If this is true, than the debacle of HAVA and the 2004 election is ANOTHER reason and a FULLY SUFFICIENT reason she should be fired from that post - don't you agree?

[ReadTomPaine]

63. You mean the Donna Brazile who praised Bush's Katrina response?

"I could not have been prouder of the president and the plan he outlined to empower those who lost everything and to rebuild the Gulf Coast."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/16/AR2005091602167.html?nav=hcmodule

The Donna Brazile who regularly lunches and discusses Democratic strategy with Karl Rove?

"Miss Brazile said she has come under some criticism from friends for reaching out to discuss various issues with top administration officials, including White House political adviser Karl Rove"

http://www.defenddemocracy.org/in_the_media/in_the_media_show.htm?doc_id=161071

That Donna Brazile? You can keep her. She's burned too many Democratic bridges, run too many failing campaigns and slept in too many GOP beds for her to have any credibility now, it's just that simple.

[fooj]

71. Yep. The same St. Donna who trades tips with KARL ROVE...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A2674-2003Mar9¬Found=true

<snip>
Few would suspect that Rove regularly trades tips with Donna Brazile, Al Gore's 2000 campaign manager; she tells Rove how Bush's proposals are faring among Democrats, while Rove makes sure her clients are included in White House events.
<snip>

All hail St. Donna!!!!!:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[flyarm]

104. i scream at the tv when she comes on..i scream traitor..i can't

stand her guts!

fly

[autorank]

82. Great, this is a huge turnaround. K&R

Brazile was the force behind the DNC report on Ohio some months ago, which was an embarrassment. I want to take a look at what she has to say and, if it makes sense, support her. Just as she was an impediment with the Ohio report, she could be very powerful as an advocate here. We'll see.

Here's one thing that might have stunned her: 10-20% of adult voters lack sufficient identification to meet those VoterID laws that have come on line in the last few years, mostly in the last 18 months. The laws are not in every state but where they are, get ready for less Democratic voters because they'll be turned away. This can be mitigated and Brazile can help.

Thanks, good news is good;)

[AtomicKitten]

87. thank you

Good news is good news regardless of the messenger. Election fraud looms and anybody that is moved by frustration to call leaders "dumb as shit" for not aggressively pursuing reform is okay in my book.

[ReadTomPaine]

110. I'm sorry, AT, but people *matter*

Anybody isn't good enough. Just look at the damage Bev Harris has done to voting reform if you want an example of what happens when the wrong people are involved with even the best of issues.

Credibility is an important part of any career, esp one in politics, and once lost it's very hard to regain. Simple words won't do the trick. The best indicator of a person's future behavior and effectiveness is a look at their past behavior and accomplishments. One glance at Brazile is enough for me to know this is a toothless gesture at best and an incipient disaster at worst.

I welcome the message, but there are plenty of good messages ruined by the wrong people behind them. She's the wrong person for this, and I frankly doubt her motives. You're right - this is an important issue. Much too important to trust with a person who doesn't have the credibility or the credentials to do the job.

If she wants to help, she can give money and make way for better speakers who have a proven track record on this issue. She should also issue mea-culpas to those she has ridiculed over voting reforms, rather than simply aiming her venom at others inside her own party again and pretending she's been onboard all along.

[Totally Committed]

114. Beautifully said!

Thank you.

TC

[AtomicKitten]

119. she is doing more than "aiming venom" with this project

Calling leaders "dumb as shit" for not pursuing immediate election reform was born of pure frustration - which I share. Her passion for this project is a good thing regardless of whether or not you approve of her. That matters.

[fooj]

157. IMMEDIATE?

Wow. Her sense of timing is astounding, isn't it?

[ReadTomPaine]

169. Your frustration over this is clouding your better judgment.

For a person who has taken the time to express how complex this issue is, you display a remarkably simplistic view of Ms. Brazile and the larger issue of voting rights and reform. How is it helpful to blame the victims of voting fraud instead of its perpetrators? How was it helpful to election reform to spend time demolishing the issue and demoralizing fellow Democrats before supporting it?

You speak of her commitment as if you know it exists, but her passion for these matters is unknown. Her current rhetoric is all that we have in hand, and that's simply not enough given her ridicule of these issues historically outweighs any recent zeal she may have found it profitable to discover. Any altruism you attribute to her hasn't been earned by either history or action, it's just wishful thinking.

The only cure you will find for your frustration is success and I'm sorry to say that her record of winning such fights isn't a good one. You won't find relief you seek from her. I'd rather have an effective spokesperson behind these efforts than an ineffective one with dubious motives and shady connections. Again - I bring up Bev Harris as the perfect example of what happens when the wrong people are brought into the voting reform movement, esp at a steering level.

You and I may know what matters, but to Donna, it's the money and the access that matter. That's the way she's always been and there's every indication that's the way she will always be. An easy measure of this is the fact that she selected herself for the job. Surely she's aware of her credibility problems in this area yet she could find no one in politics better suited to the task at hand than herself. Do you really thing she had voting reform rather than her own career in mind when she made that choice? It would be naive to think that is the case when the reality of her political career is staring you in the face.

In the future, it would be wise to place your bets on horses that win races, rather than betting on ones that lose. Then you'll have the money and feel good about it afterward.

[Tigress DEM]

179. The thing is that when DU attacks DEMs rather than simply...

stating facts that WE can all get behind, it delays our effectiveness. You are the first person I have seen that has been willing to explain without venom to Atomic Kitten what is at stake here and you have solid reasoning.

I am agreeing with the evidence presented that having Donna as Chair of this critical area is a bad idea, but I don't think it can be resolved by calling each other names.

Still a statement that says anyone who isn't doing all they can to secure voter's rights is dumb as shit, does have a certain ring of truth to it.

People can spend their time being offended or they can take steps to defend voter's rights by demanding that the DNC put someone in this position that we can trust.

As I see it, wallow in the accusation or do something about it.

[ReadTomPaine]

185. I'm onboard with much of what you say.

There is no substitute for participation in the political process, esp. regarding this issue. Each and every one of us needs to be involved in some active way, or the changes we seek will never come.

I don't care for Ms Brazile's record, but I do care about this message, and I agree we should do what we can to make sure everyone hears it loud and clear. :thumbsup:

[AtomicKitten]

187. in response to the above

"Your frustration over this is clouding your better judgment ... For a person who has taken the time to express how complex this issue is, you display a remarkably simplistic view of Ms. Brazile and the larger issue of voting rights and reform."

What judgment? That I applaud anyone that addresses election fraud? That the messenger is beside the point when the message is so important? Some here echo my "judgment" in that regard, so does that make my "judgment" any more or less simplistic or clouded?

Brazile is chair of a movement to improve the situation. It is what it is. Unless we become masters of time and space and can change those logistics, I'm happy to applaud her in her endeavors.

[Tigress DEM]

195. AK, it seems to me there is a question you may not have heard.

The question I am hearing is, how can we trust Donna Brazile to use the information from the hotline in a manner that will work for US and not against US?

I hear people saying they believe she is in cahoots with Rove and will betray us by sitting on the information while at the same time taking credit for gathering it.

So if you are saying "No hotline" or "Yes hotline with Brazile", many may choose No hotline because the question hasn't been asked, how about a hotline with someone else at the helm, someone we can trust?

I mean I have asked the question, but I'm not sure but it sounds like other posters believe that you support Brazile and the hotline and don't make any distinctions after that.


*** Please take my poll ***

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2788433&mesg_id=2788433

[AtomicKitten]

203. Well, I'd have to support it regardless of who is in charge

because I don't think any of us have the power to change those logistics.

I don't agree with the scorched earth rhetoric about Donna Brazile. She's a polite and respectful person and that is being construed as being in cahoots with the enemy; I find that notion absurd. She has been a power advocate in the past, and I sincerely believe her outrage at voter disenfranchisement.

I pulled the piece in the OP from the current Rolling Stone magazine; cannot find a link. It is a follow-up to the article by RFK specifically looking at Ohio. I would suggest people buy an issue or wait til a link is available to look at the piece.

It is unfortunate that people are so easily side-tracked on this. Who gives a crap if people think she shouldn't be chair of the VRI? She is chair and kvetching over it is pointless. I prefer to support her obvious passion for ensuring the vote and don't believe for a minute any of the nonsense about her throwing in with the evil-doers on the other side of the aisle.

[fooj]

228. Polite and respectful?

I give up. "Dumb as shit" is HARDLY polite and respectful. I refuse to play this game any longer. I'm mad at myself for getting sucked in to begin with. Adios.

[flyarm]

209. absolutely right on!! and those of us who have been in the trenches

know who has worked for and with us and who have worked against us..and donna fucking brazile has never done a damn thing to help protect one vote in this country..her little bit now..is totally lost on me ..she will never have one ounce of credibility with me!

too little, too late,,

fly

[autorank]

138. Not only OK, but she's right. Why not just lay it out...it's a Vince

Lombardi move, that's what we'll call it;). Tough love, "name it and claim it."

She's got a powerful mind and presence and she can kick some ass. Upon reflection, this is
some of the better news I've heard from the national party lately.

Dean has been himself on this issue lately and excoriating the lousy voting system. Brazile will add
to that but also focus on the essential piece of voter suppression and disenfranchisement: it's a race crime, always has been from day one, and that needs to be said. It's not said enough here by those of us who address voting issues but if anybody wants a quick study, click on the 'RESOURCES' BUTTON here and look around: www.electionfraudnews.com (particularly the middle column).

Great post!!!

[fooj]

149. Thanks for laying it all out for us Autorank...

your allegiances, that is.

[Tigress DEM]

181. Autorank is a long time DUer and wants the best for Democracy

Don't you go slamming people just because they disagree with you.

Fooj, you have a style that is so harsh that people react to your tone and don't hear your message and your posts are very lite on facts.

Google this or that doesn't show that you have taken any time to research. You probably have and so have others.

These slimy rethugs are attacking us on all fronts and the last thing we need to do is turn around and attack each other and do their jobs for them.

HELP people understand why Donna is bad for the position and see what can be done to get someone better qualified to manage the hotline instead of shooting yourself and fellow DEMs in the feet with your sarcastic remarks.

[ReadTomPaine]

170. I disagree about Ms. Brazile.. but appreciate your hard work on this..

Thanks for your long standing dedication to this issue Autorank!

[fooj]

174. Yes. He certainly has made himself a player.

[autorank]

184. ReadTomPaine (not a bad idea) Thank you.

I appreciate that. I'm looking for anything positive I can get out of DNC and Brazile being "reborn" in the movement to clean up voting is A OK - ethically, from a systems stand point, and, most importantly in terms of access to all Americans, is most welcome.

Now I'll go read TomPaine;)

[flyarm]

213. so tell me what reborn donna is doing?? did she do anything in san diego??

i just got home tonight from a dem fundraiser..and i have this in my email

Seems Duvall County is sending machines home with staff over night
rather than SOE employees picking them up and delivering to sites by 10
am .....

so please do tell me what "reborn fucking donna brazile" has done anywhere in this country for voting integrity??

i get this in my mail begging me for help from a campaign person in fla...

so do please tell me, i am waiting , what the fuck donna brazile has done?????????????other than go to lunches with karl fucking rove!

i sure haven't seen a damn bit of help or even acknowledgement of our problems in fla!

none zero zip!

i can tell you this..she sure has dem party in my fla county scared to death to speak out about the machines..terrified to!

and i can tell you this also..it has been my money and money of the good citizens of my county who have put their own money up to gtry to get voting integrity..with out a damn bit of donnas help or support..

where was donna on this??????????????????and be aware of this..this passed only after the supervisor replaced the new software with the old to get the system to pass the test..and she hid most of the testing from the people there to observe the test!!

this statement it there fore bullshit!

The result was a good one for Supervisor of Elections Office officials, who on Wednesday had grappled with a voting system that fell short during what's called a logic and accuracy test.


http://www.sptimes.com/2006/08/18/Tampabay/Voting_system_finally.shtml

Voting system finally passes
A voting rights advocate, however, says after the test that she wouldn't trust the machines.
By WILL VAN SANT, Times Staff Writer
Published August 18, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After having failed the first time around, Pinellas County's voting system passed a pre-election check on Thursday.

Voting machines will be delivered to polling sites today so that early voting for the Sept. 5 primary can begin as scheduled on Monday.
The result was a good one for Supervisor of Elections Office officials, who on Wednesday had grappled with a voting system that fell short during what's called a logic and accuracy test.

But voting rights advocates who observed the process were not impressed.

"I wouldn't trust these machines," said Linda McGeehan, a vice president of the St. Petersburg League of Women Voters. "I feel much more insecure now after seeing this."
The logic and accuracy test involves running a controlled election with a determined outcome and seeing whether the system delivers a correct result.

Election officials said they ran two tests of the system before Wednesday's failed one. In each case, the result was a success: the control and final results matched.
The way the second test was held Thursday irked the League of Women Voters' McGeehan.
Under state law, logic and accuracy tests are open to public scrutiny. Yet for much of the day, McGeehan said the ability to observe was constrained.

And promises by election officials to provide an explanation for the system's initial failure were slow in coming.
Supervisor of Elections Deborah Clark said it had been decided to first attempt a successful test before addressing the concerns of observers like McGeehan so that delays to her office's work schedule could be avoided.


fly

[autorank]

227. All I know right now is what she's saying and it sounds good to me.

I was extremely upset by the Ohio 2004 report by DNC, although there were some very good things in it. Am I supposed to be angry because it got by Dean even though Dean has been saying things like this over and over again:

The Governor then went on to talk about voting machines saying, “We are also going to talk about the machines. I don’t think these machines work. If they do work, the public has no way to verify that they work, and I don’t understand why people in Washington aren’t more concerned. I believe that these things can not be relied on and we do need to spend time and energy on this.”
http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/06/governor_dean_a_3.php

So Dean got rolled by Brazile back when on the Ohio 2004 Report but Dean and Brazile are now saying the right things. It's a matter of positive reinforcement. Sure, it is late, more than a little as you said above. Better late than never or you're never late if you get there...

The Florida situation you described and the entire history in Florida is an outrage. In fact, it's illegal. You cannot have elections using computerized anything because you can't allow citizens to observe the vote counting and tabulating process. This garbage about recounts and access to ballots is also ridiculous. In my state there has to be less than a 0.25% difference between candidates to trigger a recount and the recount doesn't allow inspection of ballots, another outrage. The outrages are everywhere.

Brazile is talking the talk, lets help her walk the walk. If she does, that's great. I'm a Democrat and I want all Democratic leaders, key operatives to be on the same page - the system is both broken, in many cases, and rigged, in many others (or seemingly broken but rigged). They should fly in with lawyers, PR etc. and assist people like those you describe in Florida. That would be walking the walk. Let's see.

If you want someone, unrepentant, to focus on , take a look a this. Hoyer and Chris Dodd, the other D from CT co-sponsored this with the charming Ney (soon to be indicted I hope) of OH and Mitch McConnell, R, KY. They have not backed off one inch. It's the enabling legislating for the horrors you describe. Dodd and Hoyer need to wake up and smell the coffee, see what's been done in the name of the "Help America Vote Act." It's real ugly, as you know.

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
September 17, 2003
HOYER, NEY ANNOUNCE ELECTION REFORM FUNDING EFFORT
Election Reform Leaders Request $1.86 Billion in Supplemental
http://tinyurl.com/qzcz9

by Stacey Farnen

WASHINGTON D.C. - House Democratic Whip Steny Hoyer and House Administration Committee Chairman Bob Ney met today with the Honorable Mary Kiffmeyer, President of the National Association of Secretaries of State, to discuss their intention to seek $1.86 billion in funding for the Help America Vote Act (HAVA). Congressman Hoyer released the following statement following the meeting:

“Chairman Ney and I have sent a letter to Speaker Dennis Hastert and other Congressional leaders to request that $1.86 billion in election reform funding be included in one of the supplemental spending measures currently being considered by Congress .

“Although we were poised to make this request before the recent court ruling regarding the California recall election, that decision has added immediacy to an already urgent matter.

“It is imperative that Congress immediately provide full funding for the Help America Vote Act if we are going to guarantee voters that their votes will count. Full funding will allow states and localities to better plan and implement the improvements necessary to preventing another debacle like the 2000 presidential election. The very foundations of our democracy depend on Congress living up to the promise it made in this bill.”

[flyarm]

233. sounding good does nothing!! she is bullshit from the get go!

so now after 6 years of stolen elections in fla..she decides to say something..fuck her..nowwwwwwwww she says something after hiding the reports for over a year..screw her !

do i sound mad..you bet i am !! and all the bullshitters who let her get away with her bullshit!

bullshit is bullshit..she is covering her ass to keep her cushy job..that is all she is doing..and all she has done!

so when the election is stolen in Nov..she can say..well i did say something..fuck her!

what has she done on the ground to support the people doing the work..not a fucking thing!


we fought and fought and fought for an audit of our machines and finally got them this spring..

another man and myself had to put up the money for the audits..why????????

because we couldn't even get fucking donna to return one fucking phone call!

actions speak much louder than words!

seems you are more than happy with a pacifier..well i am not! nor are the people in my county that have seen 3 national elections stolen already...and looking at the 4th coming..so enjoy your pacifier when your state is stolen..and you loose your democratic vote...lawyering up after the fact does shit..nothing nada...tell me when has lawyering up changed an election in fla or ohio?? to the
real results?? tell me name it!!

been there,done that,too many times now in fla!

just ask us in fla!

we couldn't get donna to even return a call to have someone from the national
dem party to be there for the audits that we the people paid for out of our pockets..
which were a fucking joke..because the auditor said there was no protocol for an audit and no way to do an audit..but they sure took our money for something that was impossible to do....

and could we get media
attention ?? no

the soe lied and thats what they printed !

see fucking donna..was too busy and out to lunch with rove!
..and couldn't even attempt to look like the dems gave a rats ass...

don't even tell me about a hotline..we had it in 2004..and it fucking did nothing!

bullshit is bullshit...and all donna fucking brazile is,is bullshit..if that is aok with you..well i say let it happen to you for 4 national elections...then call me!!

personally when i see that bitch on tv bashing dems..i would like to spit in her face!

fly

[Tigress DEM]

171. Same hotline as Dean is sponsoring..

I have been learning as I go along...

THIS page talks about the hotline;
http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/08/dnc_announces_e.php

THIS page mentions many voting rights issues;
http://www.democrats.org/a/national/election_reform/voting_rights/vri/

AND THIS PAGE touts Donna as the Chair of VRI
http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/06/donna_brazile_d.php


Can we trust her to do the right thing with the information gathered or is this just a way to lure DEMs into complacency thinking the problem is being addressed?


I believe th hotline is an essential part of the solution, but if someone is running it who can't be trusted to get the information assessed and into due process soon enough to make a difference, if she is either incompetent or working subtly for the other side... then she needs to be replaced with someone who can really get the job done.

[autorank]

192. It's like the French say, or was that the English..

In politics, no permanent friends or permanent enemies, just permanent interests. She's there, she knows her way around, and she can make a very strong case when she's motivated. The more Brazile on this issue, the better;)

Excellent post. I'd not have known about this now had it not been posted here at the font tomorrows news today, DU!

[AtomicKitten]

204. can't find a link

to the piece in the current Rolling Stone, but you wouldn't be wasting your money by going out and buying a copy. It's a follow-up to RFK's piece, this time focusing on Ohio.

It's powerful and gives me hope. And a high-five - yeah, I'm saying it loud and saying it proud - to Donna Brazile for getting up in the Dems' collective grill on this issue.

I want to crush the bastards in November and again in 2008.

on edit: By "bastards" I mean the Republicans and it's sad I feel the need to elucidate (not to you autorank, but to others).

[AZBlue]

223. Which issue is it?

eom

[AtomicKitten]

224. election reform

There is an article in the current Rolling Stone. (It surprises me nobody can link to it because RFK's article was linked to before I even received my copy in the mail.) It's a follow-up on RFK's article, this one by Tim Dickinson entitled "The Battle for Ohio." It's an adjacent inset (don't know exactly what you call it) entitled "The 2006 Election: Will the Democrats Fight Back?" It talks about the letter Schumer and Emanuel sent to Blackwell in Ohio, prompted by RFK's piece in Rolling Stone. Brazile feels the infighting (you see it here too!!!) has Emanuel squabbling with Dean about strategy when in her opinion they should be focusing on election fraud and reform, even as Republicans are working feverishly to purge voter rolls.

Granted Brazile AND Dean (people forget her report on the Ohio 2004 election was a joint report with Dean) smoothed over the out-and-out fraud, but it did focus on the atrocious practices of voter disenfranchisement. I think one of the most poignant scenes from Ohio in 2004 was a black man standing in the rain saying he had been in line for six hours and would wait another six hours or whatever it takes to vote.

She also worked hard on getting the Katrina victims access to vote.

So, we may not agree with Brazile on some issues, but she is by no stretch of the imagination a "traitor" or working with Karl Rove.

IMO anybody working on this issue deserves a high-five. Because if we don't fix it, it will be too late. That point resonates in my world.

[autorank]

225. Oh I get the meaning.

For a year I belonged to a group called "Angry Bastards" but that's another political issue.

I want them crushed too! And unity is required. It's not a one way street...we need the "brass"
to lead by following the accurate sentiment of the "troops," us. Donna Brazile is the first
operative that I'm aware of to come out and just tell the truth. She knows all about election
fraud having come up in Louisiana, where it's an art form and she has put two and two together to
give the Republicans the what four. Dean, Brazile...whose next, Eric Holder;) We can hope.

The next serious act, and this is a recommendation if anyone from DNC is reading this, will be
for DNC legal and voting rights to get in touch with Cliff Arnebeck, Paul Lehto, and Lowell Finley,
attornies who have been and are in the trenches. They could jump start a legal process with real
teeth by spending a day with those three.

This is what I call a feel good post!

[AtomicKitten]

226. again, thanks autorank

Just touching bases with a few people who get it makes it worthwhile.

Onward to knocking the stuffing out of the bastards and putting the world back on its axis. :)

[flyarm]

214. in french..UN PETIT PEU...

TO LATE!

FLY

[fooj]

137. Wow. Your response really surprises me.

Turnaround? How so?

As far as anything "stunning" Saint Donna...that's laughable. This is only good news for people who are trying to suppress the vote. Ask Al. He'll tell you. Maybe that's why he WON'T lend the venomous worm his support.

It took her ONE year to put that report together and then she SAT ON IT. I don't want to hear what she has to say. Anyone who "swaps" ideas with Karl Rove...I've got NO USE for.

[AZBlue]

222. Exactly! We should applaud this!

And be happy for the additional support for voting reform!
Thank you, thank you, thank you!

[emcguffie]

85. Well, gee whiz. You should have read what she said to me --

-- shortly after the election. It was really nasty, because by suggesting that the election had actually been stolen, even though she didn't see it, I was suggesting she was stupid.

I guess maybe I was, if she really couldn't get it. Does this mean she's finally gotten it?

[hlthe2b]

93. Sorry, AKitten... you are drawing a wrong conclusion on this one...

The DUers you think are excoriating Brazille for no reason, simply have a much longer memory of Brazille's repeated Lieberman-like attempts to blame other Dems for everything--while she, in a position of leadership--did NOTHING. Oh, except lunching with Karl Rove each week, her "good friend."

PARDON us for being a wee bit suspicious of this trojan horse. (no offense to trojan horses intended).

Brazille nearly lost her disabled sister in NOLA--something that earned her a great deal of patience, sympathy, and support. Have you heard her raging against the administration for the crimes against humanity they have committed (and continue to commit) in NOLA? NO. Yet, she can't wait to get on Fox or some other RW program to "do the Lieberman."

Damn. Atomic Kitten. Do a google. You are off base on this one. BADLY!

[AtomicKitten]

97. no, you are missing the point

I will applaud anyone that addresses election fraud. Anyone. Even Donna Brazile. And I completely understand her frustration in calling leaders "dumb as shit" for not aggressively pursuing immediate reform. Our democracy cannot withstand another stolen election.

Don't assume just because I'm not attacking the messenger that I am uninformed. I consider this particular message of the utmost importance and am capable of setting aside prejudice in favor of critical analysis.

Donna Brazile is not the point. Election fraud is.

[elehhhhna]

105. SO when Lieberman make that his BIG ISSUE you'll support him?

[AtomicKitten]

108. I'll support the issue ... not him ... is that so difficult to understand?

The meandering extrapolations on this thread are amusing nonetheless!

[fooj]

158. You have showed your cards, Atomic.

Thank you.

[elehhhhna]

167. I get your point. Do you get mine?

[AtomicKitten]

193. That you hate Donna Brazile? Yeah, I get it.

But clearly you don't get the point of the OP and that is election reform.

[hlthe2b]

106. Am I?

I agree with you AK that Election Fraud is too important not to take help where one can get it. Having said that, your original post did not simply say, "hey, maybe Brazille is finally getting
it.."

No, you had to lash out at your fellow Dems (who HAVE had reason not to trust Brazille in the past). Here is how you started your post: "Donna Brazile, a familiar pinata here at DU often pilloried in that oh so special DU scorched earth fashion, gets it and deserves some recognition.

So, I ask you: what was your intent?... to try to convey that Brazille might be amending her ways and might deserve a second "look?" or ... something else? :shrug: I can understand why many on this thread are offended-- not only at Brazille, but at the implications of how you chose to start your discussion.

[AtomicKitten]

117. I don't share scorched earth opinions about anybody or anything.

By that I mean precisely what was illustrated by this thread, the inability to take in information and analyze it critically. That is pervasive at DU. Rather than disagreeing with someone, there is a concerted effort to annihilate them. I do not summarily write anybody off simply because I don't agree with them. There is frequently the assumption that people must be uninformed if they don't share the consensus mindset here at DU and take up torches and pitchforks. I like Donna Brazile as a person in spite of disagreeing with her on some issues.

But I digress.

She isn't the point and neither is my lack of shared rage toward her. The point remains election fraud and the fact that many here at DU (again, as illustrated by this thread) are incapable of moving beyond their prejudice to discuss the real, infinitely more important issue, in this case election fraud.

[hlthe2b]

125. Ummm, AtomicKitten...

You are doing so right now, (re: your claim: "I don't share scorched earth opinions about anybody or anything") about other DUers. Do you not realize that? :shrug:

[AtomicKitten]

127. ummmmm, this thread speaks for itself (eom)

[AtomicKitten]

130. self-delete

[hlthe2b]

131. well then, I guess...

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!!!!!!!!



:eyes:

[fooj]

156. It certainly does.

However, not in the way that you had hoped...:smoke:

[fooj]

153. Sure. But it is much more entertaining to PLAY THE VICTIM!

You know...it's how the REPUBS work. Project, DISTORT and PLAY THE VICTIM. It's nothing new.

[MH1]

115. You will applaud them when they use it as cover for bashing Dems?

C'mon...

There are a hundred other things you could post to support election reform, and those who REALLY fight for it, rather than give Brazile's attacks air.

Or did you just do it for the $50 you mentioned upthread?

[AtomicKitten]

118. I appreciate her frustration

in calling Dem leaders "dumb as shit" for not aggressively pursuing immediate election reform. If we incur one more stolen election, it will be too late.

And winning $50 for predicting the trashing of the messenger was nice in a bittersweet sort of way. I would have preferred to have been wrong.

[blm]

124. Donna WAS the Dem leader on VOTING SECURITY for 2004 - How did she do?

She went all over tv saying Dems lost because they didn''t connect with the voters. 60 MILLION Votes and Dems couldn't connect? And that doesn't even count the 5 MILLION More that she and the DNC allowed to be stolen by failing to secure the machines BEFORE the vote and by neglecting to counter the tactics used by the GOPs for four years in their efforts to suppress Dem voters.

It's a FOUR YEAR JOB and people like Brazile tried to pretend it's not.

[flyarm]

129. it already is too late ...what part of that don't you get..

come see us in fla and see what the rehthugs have done to our state..then tell me..

only then can you tell me anything..and where the fuck was donna...who the fuck knows..but not helping us in fla! that.........i assure you!

in fact..the dlc and donna..have done everything they can to try to shut us up..

but they will not succeed!

fly

[fooj]

164. YOU called us out.

Don't backpeddle. It's soooooooo yesterday.

You created this mayhem. Take some responsibility for your role in all of this. I won't hold my breath.

[tkmorris]

126. That's the point though, she ISN'T addressing it

All she is suggesting is funding a release valve for people's anger. A hotline won't make the machines accountable, it won't allow people who have every right to to vote once they've been denied, it won't change the results of an election clearly stolen. ALL it will do is give people a place to bitch about it.

Besides which of course, there already is a hotline in place. She knows that too. So what's the pouint of another one?

I strongly suspect that Ms Brazile is attempting to muddy the waters by providing a place for angry voters rights activists to burn off their excess energy, after which their protestations will be firmly round-canned or buried deep in a "report" which will be pointedly ignored.

I would like to remind you that EVERY project she has had a leadership position on has produced less than satisfactory results. She looks for all the world like a Republican mole, in place to prevent any Dem movement from producing results. You say to ignore her and pay attention to the message. I say fine, as long as SHE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ADMINISTERING IT.

[flyarm]

133. were was donna this week when our machines in pinellas fla failed the

test and failed miserably ..so much so the SOE didn't let the over see 'rs see what was going on..then put the old software back into the machines because it was the only way they could get the damn machines to pass the test..di donna bother to care?? fuck no!




Voting system finally passes
A voting rights advocate, however, says after the test that she wouldn't trust the machines.
By WILL VAN SANT, Times Staff Writer
Published August 18, 2006

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

After having failed the first time around, Pinellas County's voting system passed a pre-election check on Thursday.

Voting machines will be delivered to polling sites today so that early voting for the Sept. 5 primary can begin as scheduled on Monday.

The result was a good one for Supervisor of Elections Office officials, who on Wednesday had grappled with a voting system that fell short during what's called a logic and accuracy test.

But voting rights advocates who observed the process were not impressed.

"I wouldn't trust these machines," said Linda McGeehan, a vice president of the St. Petersburg League of Women Voters. "I feel much more insecure now after seeing this."

The logic and accuracy test involves running a controlled election with a determined outcome and seeing whether the system delivers a correct result.

Election officials said they ran two tests of the system before Wednesday's failed one. In each case, the result was a success: the control and final results matched.

The way the second test was held Thursday irked the League of Women Voters' McGeehan.

Under state law, logic and accuracy tests are open to public scrutiny. Yet for much of the day, McGeehan said the ability to observe was constrained.

And promises by election officials to provide an explanation for the system's initial failure were slow in coming.

Supervisor of Elections Deborah Clark said it had been decided to first attempt a successful test before addressing the concerns of observers like McGeehan so that delays to her office's work schedule could be avoided.



fly

p.s. 1800 isn't going to do a damn thing!

[fooj]

151. Thanks for the exposure, Atomic...

It's a real eye-opener.

[elehhhhna]

103. YES! What you SAID! She's a DLC-sponsored traitor,

although she's right about the evoting issue.

You'd think her namecalling would be directed at her enemies, though. Or IS IT?

[AtomicKitten]

190. And what about your name-calling?

At least Ms. Brazile's name-calling is out of frustration regarding election fraud, and rightfully so.

Yours? Just over-the-top scorched earth venom.

And I predict you will have ZERO insight regarding this.

[elehhhhna]

206. I have watched her STINK as a rep of the Dem party for years, honey,

and she's horrible. There's my insight.

Even Dick Cheney makes sense once in a blue moon. That doesn't mean I have to like or respect him.

[madfloridian]

121. Ok, I figured it out. Donna is being blamed for Gore and Kerry and

the fact they did not dispute the election results.

It must have been all her fault. I got it now. None of their problem. Kerry had millions to contest and did not.

But it was Donna's fault. Got it.

[ProSense]

135. Don't even go there! What on earth could justify Donna Brazile

criticizing Senator Kerry for not getting it and being "dumber than shit" on the issue. This is just the kind of BS that sparks these kinds of responses. How is it that all the people batting down criticism of Democrats suddenly want to justify this instance of the same, even though there is ample justification for criticizing Brazile? These are responses to her criticism.

[madfloridian]

139. I don't know that she used those words in relation to Kerry.

I don't see the whole article link yet.

So I don't know.

And don't pretend Donna is not being accused of horrible things here with no evidence.

[ProSense]

142. Pretend? Brazile's statement is what's pretentious! n/t

[madfloridian]

147. I don't especially like her statement, but I don't like the accusations.

against her in this thread. They are mostly speculation with nothing offered but do a search on google.

[fooj]

168. PLEASE...

scroll down this thread and look at the NUMEROUS links that have been supplied for your reading. You won't accuse us of hurling accusations WITH NO EVIDENCE after you've taken the time to read them. I guarantee it.

[Totally Committed]

140. Do you get pissed off in every stinking thread, or just the ones

I bother to read? You always take this stuff personally, when NO ONE is even talking about you. Please take a step back and aske yourself why you do this. You unnecessarily alienate a lot of people with this behavior. I so often agree with what you say, but leave entire threads because you are always jumping on someone and bickering for no good reason.

I know this will get deleted, so I hope you se it before it does.

TC

[madfloridian]

144. I don't make attacks like that against anyone.

When someone is attacking fellow Democrats and using innuendo and not proof, condemning them...than I question it.

I don't have any feeling for her one way or the other, but I think this thread is unfair to her because it just makes accusation.

I am not even pissed off, just concerned at how we attack each other.

I have as much right to post my opinions in this thread, or any other, as you do. Or do I?

Maybe I don't.

[Totally Committed]

148. You absolutely have as much right to post your opinions as anyone...

I just really worry about your always being angry in every thread I read. It's not good for your health... mental or physical. I really appreciate all the information you post, but worry about the cost.

TC

[madfloridian]

155. You are worried about my mental health? Oh, please don't.

I find that a whole lot insulting, BTW. This thread is trashing a long time Democrat, and I am saying it is wrong.

So if you feel like calling me mentally ill, or in poor mental health, or whatever...go right ahead.

[Totally Committed]

163. Did I say JUST "mental health"????????

I didn't. Anger can take an enormous toll on your physical body as well.

Please give people the benefit of the doubt once in a while.

Peace out,

TC

[madfloridian]

172. I am not angry, just worried about all the attacks on Donna Brazile.

I am also worried at the same memes being directed toward me that were directed at me during the primaries. It always involves some form of mental health critique, and it usually involves a couple of groups.

I intend to speak out whenever it happens. It hurts our party to do that to each other.

I refuse to take it anymore.

[blm]

197. Sorry you feel that way but Donna screwed up the job of securing Dem votes

BEFORE 2004 election and then blamed everyone else and now uses her NEWFOUND devotion to securing machines as a vehicle to call other Dems DUMB SHITS when it ws HER job in the first place and SHE poo=pooed machine fraud and pointed to every other direction for blame but herself and the DNC.

Look at the hole Dean is trying to pull the party out of - - Brazile was one of those who helped DIG THAT HOLE DEEPER.

[madfloridian]

199. Well, I am sorry you think personal insults toward me are ok.

That is what my post was about.

I am tired of it. It needs to stop.

[blm]

201. When have I ever thought that? This thread is about Brazile, not you.

And I stick to the subject.

[madfloridian]

150. And I notice again the blame turns on me for trying to be fair.

And now will come the martyr, paranoid stuff I am so used to here.

The attacks on Donna Brazile in this thread are just unfair, and now you want to blame me and say I am too pissed off in nearly every thread?

Ok, if you need to do that. I have strong shoulders and a tough hide.

[madfloridian]

177. I think there has been enough of that kind of talk about me.

It is just not true, and I am going to start questioning every time it occurs.

It was used against me in the primaries, and it is being used still by some.

I don't say things like that about others, and I am going to point it out everytime it happens to me.

There is no excuse for going after Donna like you guys have in this thread. They are real attacks on her character. And now on mine. She should not take it, and I know I won't take it anymore.

[MH1]

154. Wow. I gave you a respectful answer, and you just twist it into something

else.

One of these days I'll learn.

[blm]

178. THAT'S your conclusion? Try again - Donna was IN CHARGE of voting security

BEFORE the election. Did she do her job to secure the voting machines and counter the GOP tactics to suppress Dem votes?

Kerry won his matchups against Bush.

Did Brazile and the DNC handle the role of securing votes as effectively the RNC handled stealing them?

[madfloridian]

183. It must be my mental problems kicking in, and now it is all my fault.

And Donna's fault. I notice that when anyone differs the attacks begin on them.

Such a shame that happens. Same people saying the same things...it will never end.

It looks to me like that is what is happening here in this thread, and I am being honest.

You can not blame her for the voting problems, for Kerry not contesting, for everything.

It is just not fair. And I am not big fan of hers. But now it is getting personal toward me again and that infuriates me.

[AtomicKitten]

191. I feel your pain, mf.

It's sad when being reasonable is met with such disdain and scorn.

[madfloridian]

194. Disdain, scorn, and insulting painful comments.

From now on I point them out everyone of them.

I am not going to let them do that to me.

[blm]

196. Nobody said it's her fault the election wasn't contested - it's her fault

the election wasn't SECURED BEFORE THE ELECTION.

Try answering this ONE question without changing my words -

DID The DNC and Donna Brazile do their job countering the GOP tactics to suppress votes and abuse the voting machines for the years they were in charge of doing so?

How this turned into a thread about the job Kerry did is beyond me.

Bush sure LOST his matchups with Kerry.

How did Donna do with that securing the vote thingy for the DNC?

[fooj]

248. You won't get an answer, blm.

This thread isn't about being reasonable. It's not about TRUTH, either. Actually, it's not even about AUTHENTIC Election Reform. That, my friend, should be obvious to all of us at this point.

Like I mentioned in a previous post, I'm through with this game. I'm mad that I allowed myself to get sucked into this nonsense to begin with. What a waste of time and energy...exactly what it was intended to do.

[blm]

249. I trust my bud, mf, is looking out for party overall.....

and just wasn't aware how and why so many of us are not thrilled with Brazile and her approach to an issue that is so important for the Dem party.

[AtomicKitten]

132. Thanks for the discussion today, DU

It was everything I expected it to be.

[Tigress DEM]

141. Always a pleasure.

Still, this is the place to work this stuff out. We need to know what is what.

Now I am moving toward the other side. I'm not going to attack Donna, but someone posted that there already is a hotline and it seemed to me it was a different solution, but it is the one Donna is affiliated with.

So now I feel a bit duped.

[tkmorris]

160. Back at ya

You know, several people on this thread didn't just post knee-jerk anti-Brazile screeds, they gave you facts and information. They made valid POINTS, which you completely ignored, only to end by rolling your eyes. Real discussion goes both ways you know.

You have a smurfy day, hear?

[AtomicKitten]

188. trash-talking Brazile is beside the point

Are those the points you are referring to?

In the bigger scheme of themes, addressing election fraud is infinitely more important.

[Totally Committed]

200. Self-delete

Never mind

[Name removed]

240. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

245. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

250. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[fooj]

146. What discussion? You've done nothing but hurl insults.

I'm off to do more positive, uplifting, and meaningful work to effect change.

Your projection is offensive. Period. You weren't looking for a discussion. You got what you wanted. Now go spend that "WELL EARNED" $50 and leave us the hell alone.

[SOS]

162. "(Democrats) are dumb as shit"

Check out Donna at her neocon clubhouse:

http://www.defenddemocracy.org/biographies/biographies.htm

They all agree!

[fooj]

166. Correction. SOME democrats are dumb as shit. LOL!

Thanks for sharing the link with us.

Wow. She really rubs shoulders with some heavy neocon hitters, doesn't she?

[flyarm]

215. OH THANK YOU FOR THAT LINK..THAT IS WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR

UPTHREAD... donna brazile is a neo con..and she lays with the fleas and stays with the fleas!!

thanks you for this link... i knew i saw that link earlier last week..but i couldn't find it in my files..

fly

[glitch]

236. That should open a few eyes. I hope everybody takes the time to look

at it.

[flyarm]

241. you would think it would open eyes to see who owns donna brazile..

she is a pnac neo con..who is selling all of us out..but it seems some here are perpetrating this ruse...that she is now on our "side"and helping us....thats bullshit!

well it won't wash..not with those of us in the trenches..no sir, we knew she was a fucking plant a long time ago!

so anyone who would support her, are supporting the pnac neo cons..and i will call it what it is..traitors!..not traitors to any party but traitors to democracy itself!

seems there are a group trying to rehabilitate the scum bags who have screwed us the most..it won't wash with those of us who are not new to the dance!

fly

[glitch]

242. "not new to the dance" is perfect.

I love old-fashioned sayings. Like "don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs" another good one.
Some of us were paying attention in real time, and have long memories.

[Greyhound]

182. Not to be too cynical, but it is time to start staffing up for the next

Presidential cycle.

This, combined with her absolute silence on this issue after so horribly mis-managing Gore's campaign, makes me doubt her sincerity.

OTOH, maybe a corporate shill can get enough inadvertent exposure to make a difference. :shrug:

[Totally Committed]

202. I thought about this over dinner, and it finally all crystallized for me:

Yes, election reform is one of the most important things we can do in this Party, if not the MOST IMPORTANT. I agree with that.

But do we have to entrust it to someone whose name has been linked so many times to Karl Rove's??? Aside from being with the DLC, she's also a pal of Karl's. Doesn't anyone else get REALLY BOTHERED by that?

The bottom line: I don't trust her to do what's best for this Party and the candidates we run against the other side. She's either incompetent or in bed with Rove... either way I can't feel comfortable with her running this thing.

TC

[OzarkDem]

205. Why hasn't she talked about this on her many tv interviews?

She's the corporate media's favorite Dem "spokesperson" yet I don't think I've ever heard her bring this issue up in any interview or forum on tv.

She probably hasn't done anything and is in danger of losing her job, so she's finally speaking out.

[AtomicKitten]

229. information

More from the Rolling Stone article referenced in the OP:

"Republicans are meanwhile working to impose even more barriers to voting nationwide: using Social Security numbers and motor vehicle databases to purge legitimate voters from the rolls, denying the vote to citizens who don't have government-issued IDs, and relying on electronic voting machines than can be easily rigged to fix an election. In May, snafus with the machines prolonged the primary vote count in Cleveland for a week, despite trivial turnout. And in June, dozens of poll workers took the machines home with them, unsupervised, the night before an election in San Diego. Two hundred and six House members have signed on in support of a bill that would require a verifiable paper trail that can be recounted, but the measure is being held hostage by Republican leadership."

ENEMY -- Foe, opponent, one who is hostile to or opposes the purposes or interests of another.

[Name removed]

237. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Backlash Cometh]

230. It's never too late to come back to the party...

However, once back, don't hog the punch bowl!

[MysteryToMyself]

234. Is Donna still emailing daily with Karl Rove?

Maybe it is her that we need help for.

Typical DLC traitor.

[Fly by night]

235. Is this same Donna "move along, no fraud happened in Ohio '04" Brazille?

She is the last person who should be taking any lead position on the election fraud issue. Those of you who haven't read the "report" (sic) she wrote on Ohio after 2004 should get a copy and read it (if you don't have a sensitive gag reflex.) Her company was being paid (hundreds of thousands$) to prepare that report while we were organizing the National Election Reform Conference in nashville (April, 2005), where we had six Ohio speakers and speakers from another dozen states -- all presenting definitive proof of election fraud -- and we couldn't get Donna off her fat ass to attend or to send someone there to hear the truth. We even sent her the audio of the three day conference -- but no response.

Donna Brazille -- the last voice I want to ever hear again on the issue of election theft. Folks should buy her a subscription to Rolling Stone so she can read the evidence published there that preceded her remarks. What a f'in joke.

[flyarm]

239. you have that right!! dead on on that bitch! n/t

[buddhamama]

247. Props to her

It is my hope she'll keep up the pressure. If they won't join ya' of their accord shame them into it. :thumbsup:

[The Magistrate]

251. Locking

This has become a flame-war.