Is anyone else worried that DU Community is Drifting Rightwart/Centrist?

[KoKo]

And, if so, what caused this and why is it that so many folks drift towards Lou Dobbs/Tucker Carlson/Joe Scarborough LIBERTARIANISM as opposed to the Matthews and Networks advocacy of DLC CENTRISM (that's drifted since Clinton even more Rightwars.)

And then throw in CNN which has an INTERNATIONAL/GLOBALIST VIEW with Blitzer there 24/6 who seems to support Israel FOREVER and if Judy Miller could be his "Co-Host" he would be in Heaven!

How does the AVERAGE AMERICAN who DOES NOT WATCH FOX NEWS...manage to SURVIVE?

Do you understand what I'm saying here? :shrug:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

1. Not to mention the resurgence of people talking about McCain

who is NOT a Democrat, even though he occasionally (VERY occasionally) makes sense.

[OzarkDem]

26. Trolls

There are quite a few here these days and its not surprising they would be promoting McCain here.

[Chemical Bill]

114. Lots of trolls. n/t

[tsuki]

27. I love McCain...NOT. We are still paying for the S&L failures.

Keating Five. Keating Five. Keating Five.

[rep the dems]

70. Who's talking about McCain?

I thought the people here realized that he's full of shit :shrug:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

71. Well, I know that and you know that...

but there were pro-McCain trolls on this site all through the 2004 primary season, and I've seen a few posts of that ilk recently

[Crunchy Frog]

78. You should have seen the people on here in '04

who were pushing for a Kerry/McCain ticket. And no, I don't think most of them were trolls. People seem to have a blind spot when it comes to him, and also a short memory.

[Irreverend IX]

107. The only pro-McCain posts I've seen...

Are backing him as a potential spoiler for "establishment" GOP candidates and a foil for the neocons and torture apologists. He's no ally to Democrats and he shouldn't be mistaken for one, but he's potentially useful if he could be goaded into starting a conflict within the R party.

[marmar]

2. Maybe I'm not paying enough attention...

But I just don't see it.

[HereSince1628]

3. Nah. I spray my laptop with Raid to keep out bugs.

[Taxloss]

4. Worrying indeed.

Before long there'll be debates on DU between people who don't agree on things. There may even be people who haven't made up their minds. Worse yet, there may be people who are difficult to label.

O tempora, o mores.

[KoKo]

8. I understand what you say

but...you didn't seem to understand what I said..and the implications.

[Taxloss]

83. You're right, I'm sorry.

What did you mean?

[Caution]

5. nope. much more worried about DU drifting towards conspiracy theory crap

[Joanne98]

12. I remember when they used to say that about the e-voting machines!

Today a conspiracy, tommorrow a fact!

[Caution]

58. I'd love to see the references to e-voting problems as conpiracy nutiness.

And one example does NOT prove the rule no matter how badly conspiracy whackos wish to believe it.

[oldboy101]

6. We Democrats are supposed to be a "big tent" party

If we insist on restricting ourselves to those who pass a progressive litmus test we will only marginalize ourselves. I would welcome all who will vote for Democratic candidates, whatever their reasons.

[AtomicKitten]

16. I agree.

and welcome to DU :)

[pnwmom]

56. Me, too. I welcome anyone who votes for Democrats.

Welcome to DU, oldboy101!

[CarlVK]

65. Can you be so big, though, that you lose the tent?

serious question.

[AtomicKitten]

68. it's always risky

The larger the group, the more compromises are required. There are some factions that are unwilling to compromise. Rather than setting fires in the tent when needs aren't being met, perhaps that's when a viable third party will be born. Insisting without compromise on reform within the tent is risky with the lockstep GOP as your opponent, and I hold that dynamic responsible for the lack of a healthy political environment.

[AZBlue]

118. Exactly! And welcome to DU!!

eom

[MaineDem]

7. What difference does it make as long as we remain Democrats?

Big tent, right?

[KoKo]

11. lol's...you get that the DEMS are not a MONOLITHIC Party like Repugs

so...thanks!

[question everything]

125. But... but, when I express my concerns about Ford from TN

and Casey from PA who would fail many of the "litmus tests" here, especially Ford, next to whom Lieberman would be considered the "extreme left," I am chided that it does not matter, since if they wind we will chair the Senate committees.

Go figure.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Joanne98]

9. Because the left-right paradigms are dissolving!

Don't you get it yet? We are deceived by BOTH parties! Divide and conquer! As the vampires at the top take more and more, the truth leaks thru! It's a good sign when the pain gets to a point wear CHANGE comes and the old guard is weakened. The bad news is they just change form and SCREW us again! If you want a rule to follow that you will never reget, it's called "The give them Hell rule". Just give them Hell and you will always know, you did the right thing!

[The Magistrate]

10. For People Who Do Not Understand, Ma'am

It might be helpful if you clarified what you are saying somewhat....

[KoKo]

14. How so?

I was being a little obscure...because I hoped to get varying opinions to see where folks were coming from.

:shrug: It was a "Query"...

[The Magistrate]

18. You Yourself, Ma'am

Suggested some might have difficulty understanding what you meant. Hence the invitation....

[KoKo]

20. As I said...I tried to leave it deliberatly open after proposing the worst

(in my Populist Dem View) to see if anyone else understood what I was saying. BTW: this is not meant as an "Anti-Dem Post" if that is what you are implying which would be a violation of the DU Rules.

I believe the DU Rules State that Dems are allowed to criticize other Dems on Du? :shrug:

[The Magistrate]

25. My Concern, Ma'am

Is that this not devolve into an exercise in callings out, group troll accusations, and the like, or an occassion for references to hostile sites of one sort or another.

[KoKo]

54. Sir...I assume you will watch it an assess it as needs be as to what it is

and I've not seen disruption except by the "usual" dissenters who show up on my and one other's posts here on DU and I can handle that I think without appearing to do something that will get me the "stone."

Just watch and lock when you see fit. Or, if you aren't the Mod on Duty then I assume they will do the deed. I felt it was something I strongly needed to say...so I posted it. Just following my conscience. If you disagree then you have the POWER...I don't.

Peace!

koko

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. We're laughing hysterically that the DLC lost their tax exemption.

I don't think you have to worry.

[wyldwolf]

34. we're laughing hyterically that...

... the DLC and it's members are leading the party to retake the House in November and 8 of 10 potential Presidential candidates are DLC or former DLC - including the frontrunner.

[The Backlash Cometh]

42. "former DLC" sounds acceptable.

[wyldwolf]

46. yes, no longer an elected Dem, but still a New Democrat

:)

[KoKo]

55. If you are a former "Elected Dem" can you share your experience as to

why you are a New Dem as opposed to DLC? It would be interesting for us to know this...since some only see you in "One" Skin...here.

Thanks...if you could share your experience...

koko

[wyldwolf]

63. wherever did you get that idea?

[KoKo]

61. Again....could you share your experiences? n/t

[wyldwolf]

64. Again... wherever did you get that idea?

[Moochy]

66. hmm

By reading your 20,000 13995 posts on the subject of how cool the middle is?

yay for fencesitting!

on edit corrected your number of posts. :-)

[wyldwolf]

76. ...are you even reading this thread?

...reading is fundamental. LOL!

[Moochy]

84. Hugs and kisses to wyldwolf

Who's a good boy? Who's a good boy? have a scooby snack. :grouphug:

[wyldwolf]

85. There is my answer

mooch  /mutʃ/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation Slang.

–verb (used with object) 1. to borrow (a small item or amount) without intending to return or repay it.
2. to get or take without paying or at another's expense; sponge: He always mooches cigarettes.
3. to beg.
4. to steal.
–verb (used without object) 5. to skulk or sneak.
6. to loiter or wander about.

[Moochy]

86. Oh crap I better change my screen name! n/t

[wyldwolf]

88. or stop loitering and wandering about. Name fits you well.

[Moochy]

90. Aww cmon

Can I mooch some credibility off of you? Oh that's right you dont have any. I'd be better off asking someone else without a leash.

[wyldwolf]

91. you know you're place, then

loitering about with the other moochies. If you changed you screen name, we'd still smell you.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[surfermaw]

17. I don't see the shift from left to right

But I do agree with one reply, that democrats give McCain to much publicity. I think I posted this some time in the last two years... We need to keep our mouths and fingers tightly closed, where MCCain, is concerned. McCain is just another Bush, with a mealy mouth. He is lazy, bragging when he finished next to last from a Military Academy, saying he wished he had been last. Now you tell me doesn't that sound much like Shrub...And think Shrub, did use his dad's money for school, while McCain, education was paid for by the tax payers of the United States of America...That should be all any one needs to know about McCain, spread the word. I am the only person that I have seen on any board that has posted this information.

[OzarkDem]

24. Point well taken n/t

[rolleitreks]

19. Haven't the foggiest idea what you're saying, old bean.

You might try establishing a position with simple declarative sentences, supporting it with relevant facts, then drawing a conclusion, rather than asking if we understand. It is not clear to me what connection the networks have with the DU community -- never watch TV myself -- nor why changes in their positions would harken changes here at DU.

[KoKo]

22. I left my statement OPEN...just to see if anyone else saw what I did......

I don't think that's as controversial as the posts in this thread would imply.

But..then...my IRONY is often seen differently than I would anticipate......

Whatever...How do YOU differ from what you READ or HEAR..if you do not WATCH TEEVEE?

[man4allcats]

21. It used to seem that way to me not so long ago;

back around last January or February. I remember there were some people then who, in an effort to keep things in balance, spoke out against some who were among the most objectionably rightward. From my current vantage point at least, I'm happy to say I don't see so much of that objectionable behavior here anymore.

[OzarkDem]

23. Just a lot of trolls

The GOP disruptors have been quite busy lately, which may give an appearance of that. Most DU'ers seem to be the same as always - they're all over the map, but they're Democrats.

[The Magistrate]

31. And What, Ma'am

Is your definition of a "GOP disruptor"?

It is amazing how often people take that as a synonym for "someone who disagrees with me", or even for "someone who supports and defends a prominent Democratic politician"....

[KoKo]

35. Assume your post was to "Ozark Democrat?" n/t

[OzarkDem]

50. They usually give themselves away

in a couple of ways like using GOP talking points or only arguing or discussing topics the GOP is promoting. Some give themselves away by responding to their hot button topics e.g bashing Hillary Clinton or gays & women in the military, or Monica Lewinsky. They will also surreptitiously keep kicking controversial threads that have Dems arguing amongst themselves. You can tell because they're not posting in impassioned response to an argument with another poster, but usually instead post a "me, too" or some similar response. I'm not saying that regular posters don't do the same thing, usually inadvertently. But there is something deliberate and systematic in the way some people go about it.

I should also mention that I spend quite a bit of time on mixed forums during the last few years. Its surprising how quickly you can pick them out when you're accustomed to arguing with right wingers on a regular basis. Its hard to quantify exactly, but if you spend a lot of time on a mixed forum, you'll start getting the hang of it.

Its always good to spend some time on mixed forums. It sharpens your skills, though you sometimes have to have a strong stomach.

[Chemical Bill]

115. They give themselves away...

by not paying any attention to reality. I too spend time on mixed forums, and right-wingnuts ignore any evidence that things are not the way they believe. If I had a nickel for all the times I've posted a link to the WH transcript of * saying he didn't care about bin Laden....

It reminds me of the old Monty Python skit about the argument.

Bill

[BelgianMadCow]

140. I came to have an argument Sir

hahaha that's a god one huh

:hi:

[wyldwolf]

32. not to mention

the green/socialist trolls.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

40. yes I was - a parody of Rush applied to the DUers who think disagreeing...

...is attacking. Oh My! LOL! Like YOU!

[wyldwolf]

28. not at all

In fact, I welcome the move to the center if it is true. We'll be on pace with the rank and file Dem voters.

[poverlay]

29. I'm ready to hold hands and sing Cumbaya if it will help...

[KoKo]

51. Kumbahyah....if one knows Gullah........n/t

[poverlay]

81. Hey thanks! I love learning new things. I really love word things.

Is there anything else you can tell me about "Kumbahyah"? I googled it and couldn't come up with much. I did learn a bit about Gullah, which I'd never even heard of before(by name).

Thanks for edumacating this unwashed... buckruh.

[KoKo]

108. lol's...."buckrah." A good Gullah word....

:D

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wyldwolf]

38. well...

you don't know many DUers.

[KoKo]

41. Agree...even if one is forced to watch FOX for a "Term Paper" to a

Conservative Professor to get a job out there in McD Land....it's hard to take those who post Fox Crap and views, even IF they are genuine and are seeking therapy.

[Doctor_J]

33. It's troll season

Some tool yesterday told me that the media is balanced. Watc out for Fox News fans to be posting here until election day.

[mcscajun]

36. Is there a 'bag limit' on those trolls?

:evilgrin:

[Doctor_J]

39. No limit, per the most recent Senate "compromise bill"

and you're allowed to torture them before outting them out of their misery.

[KoKo]

45. We "Media Watchers" have noticed this...it's even worse than 2000/02/04

and they are GOING FOR BROKE...!!!!

[Crunchy Frog]

43. No, I don't see it.

For as long as I've been hanging out here (since early '03) there has been a wide diversity of membership incuding a number of posters who were quite far to the right. Some of the most conservative posters that I've seen have been here practically since the beginning.

I don't watch TV apart from Stewart, Colbert and Olbermann, so I only know secondhand what's on those other shows, but I expect people are drawn to them due to their sometimes being quite provocative and critical of the administration. People are hungry for any kind of criticism of Bushco, and seem willing to take it from wherever it's coming from.

There's also far more people posting on DU now than in the past, and therefore a greater multiplicity of voices. Therefore pretty much any segment of politica thought that is represented on this board gets magnified.

And no, I'm not entirely sure I understand what you're saying here, but I did my best to give you my honest response anyway.:)

[KoKo]

47. Thanks for your post. My post was not understandable by many here....

but that's okay...I was just trying to find folks who DID understand what I meant.

[FrenchieCat]

44. I'm not so much worried about "DU" as I am for this country.....

The nation has shifted righward for some time...so maybe DU is catching up?

But to answer your question....Personally, I'm too busy worrying about whether we will or we won't get 2 more years of unchecked rule from this Bush administration without a congress to slow it down. Now, that's what I'm worried about!

Ask again after the elections. Then I might be able to spend sometime on this topic. :hi:

[KoKo]

48. Okay...gottcha...it's too soon....I understand,.but I still needed to put

this post out there...

thanks...:-)'s

[Stinky The Clown]

49. I don't see a rightward drift ...... I see some election season pragmatism

The candidates we have are .... well ..... the candidates we have.

Some here will continue to knock the DLC-types.

Some here will defend the DLC types.

Some here (like me) just want to win.

I suspect no one's core values have changed, but the talk we hear these days is skewed largely because of the midterms.

At least that's how I see it.

[KoKo]

52. It's a kind post...so thanks for it....n/t and a Smilie....

[Greyhound]

53. Good point, no more arguments from me.

:kick:

[pnwmom]

57. I'd rather they be here, voting for Democrats, and hopefully

giving us majorities in the House and the Senate, than voting for the other party. Wouldn't you?

Besides, from my point of view, there are many DU'ers with a very narrow (and short-sighted, historically) idea of what a Democrat is. We don't all have to agree on every single "progressive" issue to be Democrats. And people who complain that people like Hillary Clinton and Maria Cantwell and Diane Feinstein aren't "real" Democrats should get a little more real themselves.

[KoKo]

60. I hear you...but want reform of our party...

thinking that what they've been doing since they've lost the House and Senate since 1994 hasn't worked. So, I'm looking for ways to win which often clashes with Status Quo. But, I understand what you say...hope you understand what I'm saying, too.

[pnwmom]

73. I certainly wish we had more people like John Conyers in the party.

Is that the kind of thing you're saying?

[fishnfla]

59. i understand you are using whats on TV to grade DU

and i do not get it

[AX10]

62. Well we do have many here who are singing the praises...

of John "Keating Five" McCain and Lindsay "Clinton Impeachment Manager" Graham.
Add that in with the ongoing apologists for abuse of power by the state, I'd have to say that there is at least some unjustified sympathy for the right at DU.

We should be working to elect Democrats and promote progressive causes.

[Kahuna]

69. Oh brother. Here we go again...

:eyes:

[ComerPerro]

72. DU is becoming more and more right wing, partly because

people here are so desperate to applaud people who oppose Bush on some issues that they make heroes out of Pat Buchannan, Joe Scarborough, John Dean, and Lou Dobbs.

But they are all conservative slime.

Also, a disturbing amount of people here have fallen for the "fiscal conservatives are great" bullshit, as though being fiscally conservative only means that you want a balanced budget.

All that does if fuel the lie that liberals are wasteful, deficit spenders.


It started about a year ago, when people started pining for "true Conservatives". It was pathetic then, and its pathetic now.

[ShortnFiery]

89. No, methinks most folks here are discerning and understand the rationale.

Most everyone KNOWS that Buchanan wants impeachment only because Dear Leader won't keep Brown People out with an electrified fence. :(

Further, only the conservative Democrats purport "lower taxes" are good for the wealthy. Yes, there are quite a few but we do COME TOGETHER when it comes to finding an end to the illegal occupation of Iraq.

ON EDIT ---> My apologies: I did not read your post close enough but I'll also address the positive comments about the President of Iran's BEHAVIOR and comments of high IQ.

There's always a few "outliers" in every huge message board, however, the vast majority is NOT cheering on "the evil terra-ists" ... no not even the smarmy (but more intelligent than Dear Leader) elected leader of Iran.

To admit "the bloody obvious" is not cheering this man on. :(

Gosh, did anyone else notice *the flourish* with which Dear leader turned the pages of his notebook of pseudo speech notes? Any Introductory Social Psychology student could discern that Dear Leader's entire speech was being fed to him via audio. What added insult to injury, he didn't even perform it well - this man is a sociopath who only SHINES when he performs speeches addressing death and destruction.

No, I don't like the leader of Iran. Not at all. However, I also don't admire the leadership of Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and China.

The entire world FEELS the hypocrisy. Unlike his father, Our Dear Leader does not have either the basic skill of feigning compassion nor the IQ to pull off a speech that addresses true freedom and humanitarian actions needed by The World Community.

Again, IMO the vast majority of folks here at DU who are willingly to admit the high intelligence of Iran's President, don't equate this fact as DOUBLE PLUS GOOD. If anything, it drives home the fact that we must VOTE and wash out our inept Neo-Conservatives within both The Executive Branch and The Congress. :hi:

[Name removed]

74. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[loyalsister]

75. Elections bring out pragmatism

compromises, and flawed conventional wisdom that has become entrenched in our culture in the form of basic beliefs about liberalism vs. conservatism.

There don't seem to be policies without labels or people with ideas when elections are in progress.

Labels, then become the topic of debate. I have observed that this sometimes leads people to be defensive of their labels or make efforts to align themseleves with the "winning label."

Sometimes people do it out of desperation to want to tap into what they believe the majority responds to.

I also tend to think the green party and DLC are institutions based on that kind of reactive politics, and they have presumptuously centralized a political home base for all progressives and all moderates. I think it has divided us to some extent.

My strategy is to focus on local issues where we can find solutions to problems to a point that we can move some mole hills and make actual inroads toward constructing a progressive local community.

[Guaranteed]

77. I have definitely not noticed that- the libertarianism

or any of the rest, except for the internationalism.

[LWolf]

79. Worried? No.

It's inevitable. As the board grows, it will more and more come to resemble the general population, which has been drifting right for decades.

That doesn't mean I have to like it, or join it, of course. I don't have to join the pretense that all of today's centrists are somehow "liberal" or "progressive" or "far left." :eyes:

I don't have to support "centrist" political ideology just because others promote it.

[Totally Committed]

80. Yes. Definitely.

I keep trying in my own way to drag it Leftward again each and every day, but some days it feels like I'm shoveling sh*t on the inccoming tide. But, I persist. And, so should YOU!

TC

[Skinner]

82. The more things change, the more DU stays the same.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Skinner/3">nt

[Totally Committed]

87. Skinner... are you saying that (in your perception) that

it is we who are moving to the Left, and DU is staying the same? Just wondering.

As someone with the ultimate overview of things here, you oughtta know.

TC

[Skinner]

92. My perception...

...is that neither "we" nor DU are moving to the left. Or to the right. Or to the anything.

The view that there existed a better time in the past when DU was "better" (smarter, nicer, more left, more mainstream, more rational, more whatever) stays pretty much constant. Hand-wringing threads like this get posted here on a regular basis, and have been since virtually day one.

[Totally Committed]

95. Thanks for the input!

If anyone would know, it would be you, I guess.

Thanks!

TC

[KoKo]

109. My post was trying to get to whether the Media could influence DU'ers

against their own opinions to become more Centrist or Conservative ...drifting rightward because of the Corporatist/RW Think Tank slant of most of the Pundit shows. My mistake was that the subject line didn't make that clear and the body of the post must not have been clear enough for those who read both subject line and post to get what I was trying to say.

If one just read my Subject Line...it would sound like a handwringing post.
Perhaps the handwringing posts that occur frequently are some kind of "reality check" for those of us who've been here for a long time. Just seeing what others think helps our own sense of where we are, where we've been and where we are going in our own Democratic philosophical journey.

Thanks for your input. Ive noticed the amount of disagreement with each other here has not changed...and in some ways is much less than the terrible street fights of the earlier days when the Board was smaller. With the increase in size of DU it's possible that there just "more" of what has "always gone on" here and therefore to some of us seems more change than what the reality is. Verifying what you say.

koko

[Sammy Pepys]

93. Centrism is centrism for a reason...

IT's the mushy middle between partisan-to-extreme right and left that most normal folks out there probably subscribe to in one way or the other.

If DU is getting less leftward-leaning, I only hope that it's because it's attracting a wider audience.

[wyldwolf]

94. centrism is centrism for a reason...

Centrists are ideologically flexible. Centrists recognize the complexity of public policy choices and look to many kinds of solutions. Which solution depends on the circumstances, the problem, and the public interest. Ideologues repeat their slogans with little regard to the specific policy problem at hand.

[Sammy Pepys]

97. But Centrism also falls victim to...

...identity conflicts. It's actually quite normal for two people considering themselves to "centrists" to disagree on practically every issue out there. That is probably the biggest hurdle to formualting solutions to policy problems, and unfortunately it's a very prevalent characteristic in the centrist universe.

[wyldwolf]

98. so do "progressives" and conservatives

The only difference is, when two centrists disagree, we don't accuse each other of being "sellouts" and "DINOS" and "RINOS."

[Sammy Pepys]

105. No, they usually just accuse the other of being...

...radical or reactionary :)

[wyldwolf]

106. no, they do not

They will ask for verification. For some evidence to support the position. Ask a "progressive" or "conservative" for such and you get avoidence. Press for it and you get "we don't need no stinkin' proof" attitudes.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

96. Yes...

there is a much different breed of DUer here, from when the board was first launched. Some of the smartest, most progessive DUers have left because of this rightward tilt or, even worse, been booted, which I have always felt is a terribly sad thing.

I admit, I am sometimes shocked by views and positions I read here coming from fellow "Dems", shocked because they seem so wildly out of sync with traditional Democratic values and the tone of DU.

But I choose to stick around because I do not want to give way to those who hold such views and positions -- I do not want them to be the only voices heard here.

I am a Democrat, I am a liberal, and I will fight for the soul of my party and my country against anyone I feel will do it harm, even those with a "D" after their name.

And I will do the same here at DU.

[Totally Committed]

99. I have to agree,

even though others don't.

I was a long-time reader before I began posting, and I agree with you.

TC

[wyldwolf]

100. the one person who has been here the longest - and OWNS it - disagrees

[Totally Committed]

103. I know. I was the one who had that "conversation" with him.

I like and respect Skinner a lot, and think his opinion is a weighty one. I just don't happen to agree with him.

It was immensely generous of him to answer me as honestly as he did, and I'm grateful for his input. As I said... we just don't agree.

TC

[Hell Hath No Fury]

104. And sadly, I won't be able to answer this...

truthfully because I would get banned for it.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

101. Notice the Islamophobia lately?

[warrens]

102. Huh?

I haven't seen anyone seriously say anything good about Joey the Scar. As for Dobbs, I've always liked him even when I violently disagreed with him. At least he's honest, and his black box reporting has been top-notch. It's not going "rightward" to salute someone from the other side who is sane, at least part of the time.

What I have noticed is a growing impatience with PC crap. And that's a good thing.

[AntiFascist]

111. Dobbs is constantly beating up the Bush admin on various issues...

and he's covering election fraud consistently, even moreso than Keith Olbermann these days.

[AtomicKitten]

110. The Jesus Camp ads are creeping me out

if that's any indication of a direction or tolerance. Okay, I realize it's just advertising. But, damn.

[earth mom]

112. Yes, DU is being pulled to the right.

There are more Dinos and DLCers here than ever before. People who got sick and tired of it have left for more progressive and independent thinking sites. While some of us have stayed to continue to have our more progressive or true left views be heard.

As for the news...they sure had me fooled and confused for a couple of years after 9/11. I wasn't really paying attention to it all, but I knew that none of the shit being sold as news made sense to me. But it wasn't until I got DSL about 3+ years ago and was able to zoom around the net much faster that I started to figure things out for myself. You couldn't pay me to listen to any of those whack jobs listed in the OP!

The people of this country are up against major brainwashing by corporate media whores like those in the OP who beat the public over the head with their corporate driven B.S. sold as "news". However, once the media lowered the mask during Katrina, the cat was out of the bag and the public realized they were being duped and sold a pile of crap. It's no accident that DU and other liberal sites are gaining new members and Keith Olbermann is so popular and *'s numbers are down. The word is out! :evilgrin:

[SaveElmer]

113. Absolutely not...

If there is such a drift, and frankly I do not think there is, it would simply place DU where the vast majority of Democatic voters are idealogically.

Frankly I think liberals on this board get this impression because the nightly DLC/Hillary/New Democrat bashing thread only contains 90% Hosanna's from the DU crowd rather than the 98% that was formerly typical!

[sadiesworld]

116. Lou Dobbs is the only media personality who regularly

speaks up for US workers. He discusses job-killing trade agreements, the importation of cheap labor, and DC's bi-partisan devotion to corporate interests at the expense of the american people.

The faux "concern" over DUers watching (and appreciating) Lou Dobbs is tiresome.

[KoKo]

117. You do realize he's a Libertarian, though...Right? n/t

[Tellurian]

119. Yes, well, I have an off topic question..

can anyone tell me why the search feature on this forum goes to Google before
returning the search request info? Google is a bad thing and just wondering
why this is so?

[Tyo]

120. Why not create a forum here where our Fascist pals can post?

I mean sure we can always visit their hangouts but we get booted off or banned almost immediately so what's the point?
I'd love to have a room here where they could post and we could duke it out with them. And there would be the added advantage of getting a better feel for what they think and what they're up to.

[wyldwolf]

121. because there are no fascists here

[Tyo]

122. I know that

But I think we ought to create a special padded room for any who might want to visit. Family feuds get kind of boring after a while and I think it would be nice if we had an area in DU where we could go head-to-head with the enemy.

[Tellurian]

123. Does anyone know why Google is involved

in the search feature here?

[schmuls]

124. I listen to a lot of news sources and I don't like to be labeled as a

"democrat" (even though I would call myself one). As long as Lou Dobbs gets on and exposes what is really going on, I don't care if he is a libertarian or whatever other label he might be.

[Tellurian]

127. Folks, Tellurian is now standing on the table with a megaphone..

D-O-E-S ANYONE KNOW W-H-Y-
OUR SEARCH FEATURE GOES THROUGH G-O-O-G-L-E FIRST?

and don't even think about looking up my skirt! ;) :hi:

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

126. Uhm, WHAT?

Are you fucking kidding me? We're drifting WAY further left.

[SaveElmer]

129. I know....

It goes from like 99% amens to 95%, with a few moderate dissenters popping up, and we are tilting rightward!!!

To me it just highlights that some on the left do not believe alternate views are either legitimate, or consistent with being a Democrat.

[silverojo]

139. I agree, DU is drifting way further left

I'm a third-generation Democrat, and some of the stuff I see here is too far left, even for me. I get tired of being called a Freeper just because I think gun ownership is OK, and because I don't want illegal aliens flooding into this country unchecked. I wish people could agree to disagree here, without going into childish name-calling games ("troll", "freeper").

After all, this IS the Democratic Party--if we all agreed on everything, we'd be Republicans!

[bloom]

128. I understand what you're saying.

I say that there are more centrists/rightists/and people in denial. A lot of the more left leaning people have left.


I think that the libertarian influence has been strong in the media for awhile. A lot of people don't see it. An article about the Daily Show mentioned that most of the people who work there are libertarian. Some people think of libertarian as being on the left or something.

Esp. those who think of libertarianism as being the opposite authoritarianism and not like the "official" Libertarian party usage which is anti-gov't, anti-social-programs, anti-regulation (which includes environmental regulation, etc.). And is essentially anti-liberal and anti-progressive.

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Tellurian]

131. OK...since no one is answering..

How could Skinner allow this forum to be tracked by Google?
And Why?

[OzarkDem]

132. Can you explain?

What does that mean, being tracked by Google? Is this a bad thing for those who post here? I'm curious, I don't know much about it.

[Tellurian]

134. If you use the search feature within this forum..

If your looking for a particular topic or a poster..
look at the bottom of your window as the information you've asked
for is being scanned through the search feature, you'll see GOOGLE
transferring information..where to? I don't know..and why I'm asking,
why Google is involved on this forum.

sometimes the info goes very fast and you'll miss it ..Other times it sits there
as plain as day quite obvious to the naked eye. I mean, I'm at the point of asking is
Skinner really in charge of this forum anymore...or has the forum been taken over
by some sort of security issue...and silence is the golden rule.

[NotGivingUp]

137. i've found the removal of some threads very disturbing

[BelgianMadCow]

141. I also wondered about that

noticed it too, I think a couple months back for the first time.

Not liking it al all, but I think it has to do with the google ads.

:shrug:

[messiah]

133. Why would one be worried? it's a done deal

It's the way of many men to be controlled by the ideology of a corporation.
Centrists conform to school indoctrination or the Ideology of a corporation and repeats basically what the media wants them to repeat.
A few will survive but will not be able to put up a fight against mind control.
A puppet will do what it's master wants it to do.

[Tellurian]

135. Hey, buddy..

whether you think you're the messiah or not is irrelevant to me as much as your words being held as gospel.
Dyslexics are immune to this propaganda and there are many more of us than you think.

BTW, Bush is not a dyslexic as many articles have claimed. An 85/90 IQ would not qualify him in this world
or the next as a dyslexic. So please save any proposed deluge of attacks on dyslexics for a different audience,
because your fraudulent comments will be falling on deaf ears.

[loudsue]

136. LOL!! Well, KoKo01, from the responses on this thread, I can see

that what you are saying is 100% correct.

:kick::kick::kick:

[leesa]

138. It's still that pervasive, idiotic DLC idea that if you dress like a

Republican, talk like a Republican, think like a Republican, then you can win as a Democrat.

[KoKo]

143. I know... it could be said: "How many times can one lipstick that PIG and

sent it out to "RALLY THE TROOPS" ...round that FLAG.

After awhile..it get's kind of stale...I know......

[ima_sinnic]

142. yes, these are too far to the right:

--endorsing of DLC korporakrats; anyone who can't see how these people are in collusion with PNAC/status quo/* appeasing is blind
--endorsing of Hillary as 2008 prez candidate; see above
--bashing of Chavez --that all DUers wouldn't embrace the truth in his speech disturbs me; to do otherwise is to defend *
--dissing of any 9/11 discussion that does not adhere to official "coincidence theory" and absurd "19 hijackers w/boxcutters" myth, squelching/ridiculing of any discussion that leaves open the very strong possibility that *Co either let it happen, encouraged it to happen, or made it happen --I believe those who do this are paid disruptors/distorters.

so flame me, like I care. this board has turned into a bunch of wussies whose "feelings are hurt" because a legitimately elected South American president said bad things about * at the UN.

where is an attitude of resistance?

I'm ready to revolt, to storm the palace, to be arrested--are you? I didn't think so.