Who do you like best Howard Dean or Bill Clinton?

[patricia92243]

Dean was/is my hero for the past election cycle. But the Big Dog is the reason I became a Democrat.

I love seeing Clinton on the TV lately. It has reminded me of how much I really, really like him.


I KNOW THIS IS MEAN - But I'm am not going to put a "other" or "neither" column - because that is not what I'm asking.


:)

[MrCoffee]

1. Vote for the Dawg.

[Tesha]

35. The "Dawg" is the reason Democrats are so far out in the cold. (NT)

[wyldwolf]

99. nah. Folks like you are the reason.

[Tesha]

101. Says Mr. DLC, always a reliable source. (NT)

[wyldwolf]

103. Actually, Bill Clinton is Mr. DLC

First Democrat elected to two terms since FDR.

Now what have angry "prooogreeesssives" ever done but almost throw an election in 1948, and throw elections in 1968 and 2000?

Yep! Your little band of merry revolutionaries put us right here.

[Tesha]

106. Not in DU. I think you deserve that accolade.

But you forgot:

First Democrat to lose the House in no-one-can-remember-how-long.

*THAT* is WJC's true legacy.

Tesha

[wyldwolf]

107. which only shows how out of touch DU is with the party as a whole

But you forgot:

First Democrat to lose the House in no-one-can-remember-how-long.

Ah, but you forget, there is no evidence to even suggest two years of Clinton's presidency caused the Democrats to lose decades of dominance. But there is plenty to suggest it was the anti-Democratic party sentiment that had been building since Viet Nam.

...and I won't say you forgot this because you probably never knew... 1938, FDR lost 81 House seats. In 1942, he lost 44 more. By 1946, the House was in Republican hands.

[Tesha]

108. Yes, but FDR also accomplished quite a bit more.

Yes, but FDR also accomplished quite a bit more; it's
understandable that he would have made enemies.

Let's see:

o WPA
o CCC
o Social Security
o FDIC (IIRC)
o (Mostly) Won World War II

Tesha

[wyldwolf]

109. that really wasn't the point, though, was it?

Your points were that...

1. Clinton was the first Democrat to lose the House in "no-one-can-remember-how-long." Apparently, someone can remember because FDR did.

2. Clinton is the reason Democrats are where they are now - which there is no evidence to support beyond the echo-chamber rantings of the left. But in fact it is the very same people belly aching who put Bush in power in 2000 (and put Nixon in power in 1968 and almost denied Harry Truman an elected term in '48)

[dogman]

2. I like

apples because they taste like apples. I like oranges because they taste like oranges.

[nickshepDEM]

3. The big dawg. He's my favorite President/Politician/Leader of all time.

[howmad1]

36. Yea, mine too.....

....if he would have kept his pecker in his pants.:evilfrown:

[madfloridian]

4. Not going to vote or choose between them. See the money .....

I am honest that I feel the Clinton are setting up their own way. Have you seen the money?

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-New York)

Senate re-election committee (Friends of Hillary):

$5,367,121.78 contributions 2nd quarter

$5,679,413.01 total raised 2nd quarter

$3,381,896.69 total spent 2nd quarter

$22,000,937.48 cash-on-hand as of 6/30/2006

Leadership PAC (Hill PAC):

$136,695.00 contributions in June

$136,734.56 total raised in June

$179,902.14 total spent in June

$57,072.59 cash-on-hand as of 6/30/2006

527 (HILLPAC-NY):

$0 raised 2nd quarter

$1000 spent 2nd quarter

Edit for link:
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2008/leadershippac08.html

[OzarkDem]

5. Both n/t

[madfloridian]

6. Why did you pick just Dean and Clinton? How about Edwards and Kerry?

I would like to see them get more airtime. This is not being honest...

[MrCoffee]

7. make yer own damn poll

[Bucky]

22. Yeh! If you don't like this poll, why don't you just leave the country!!

[demo dutch]

105. They should have won by an enormous landslide but they didn't!!

[madfloridian]

8. A lot of us know why you are asking.

It is extremely divisive. It is because I said that Clinton was taking airtime that Kerry or Edwards or others could share, and because of my stance about a certain general.

Let's be honest.

This has nothing to do with Howard Dean or Bill Clinton. This was started because I said what a lot of people think but don't dare say.

[OzarkDem]

13. We need party standard-bearers right now

Who can get media access, who have experience and strong leadership skills and who can talk about Dems plans and their take on the issues.

It helps having people like Dean and Clinton in this role because neither is running for office, so there's less likelihood of the media and public treating them dismissively.

At this point in time (just before the midterms when we need fair elections to take back a majority in Congress), we needn't worry about promoting a candidate for 2008. We need party leaders who can work on getting our message out to the public. We can have more than one as long as they're all sticking with the same messages and issues.

[madfloridian]

15. Never mind.

This was about so much more than that...things we need to talk about. But when someone tries they get shouted down and voted off the set, so to speak.

There are many things to talk about that have very little to do with Clinton or Dean.

[OzarkDem]

52. Ok

I guess I missed out on the other stuff. PM me if you want to explain.

[Tellurian]

16. Divisiveness was my first thought as well..

I like Howard Dean very much. I believe he has a good and true heart and believes in everything he does.
He should spend as much time as he can with former president Clinton, learn as much as he can from the master, and become his best student in protecting himself from Republican dirty tricks..

After I found out what the Repugs did to him during the last campaign, that little maneuver, cost him dearly..If you remember, they changed his microphone or some such, where he was shouting over the background noise to be heard?
Someone, edited out the background noise and made Dean look like an angry, violent man.. this not only shattered his image in an instant but stopped the momentum he had worked so hard to build. The Repugs seized on that like a heart attack and DOAed him as an out of control, wild eyed candidate unsuitable for office.

I hope Dean and Clinton become a team...Dean can learn from the best and Clinton's health will benefit by personal monitoring..Such a Deal..

[ima_sinnic]

78. the DLC also played a big part in destroying Dean--and then forced

Kerry on us with the good old "electable" BS meme.

[wyldwolf]

100. BS

[IndianaGreen]

9. I voted for both of them, 4 times for Clinton!

Voted for Big Dog twice, in the Indiana primary of 92 and 96, plus the Presidential.

[MaineDem]

10. In a head-to-head poll, Clinton by far

You asked "who do you like best". If the question had been worded differently I might have had a different answer.

I love Bill Clinton. I respect what Dean is doing as Chair of the DNC but I don't particularly "like" him as much as I do Clinton.

[madfloridian]

11. I guess you understand the reason for this poll.

It has nothing to do with Clinton or Dean. It has to do with another possible candidate, and it was posted because someone questioned airtime.

It gives all kinds of people a chance to bash either. It should not have been posted.

There will be people coming here from other sites to have their say, like here's a poll kind of thing.

[MaineDem]

12. I really don't know what, if anything, is behind this

And I'd bet most people who answer the poll won't either.

[madfloridian]

14. Clinton was a two term president.

How is that a fair thing? At this point in trying to get other voices on the air, and one person dominating.

Of course a two-term president will win a poll here.

I question the motive, and I bet I don't question anything Clintonesque again. I just learned my lesson.

[AtomicKitten]

20. I would defer to the OP for the answer to that question

as they are the only one that knows, although some, as always, have no problem declaring with absolute certainty another person's motivation.

[madfloridian]

25. Well, follow the trail of my posts, my friend.

I had the nerve to say Clinton was trying to be the face of the party again with his wife running for president.

Maybe that is why our Democrats were not out talking about torture?

Did Clinton say torture was wrong? No, he did not. Was he speaking for the others, who knows. Many will think so. In fact I think he just sidestepped the question, would have to see the transcript.

[AtomicKitten]

30. On following a trail of your posts

I find lots of second-guessing based on assumptions fueling an agenda.

[madfloridian]

32. I am SO SO glad that no one else here has an "agenda." Whoopee

I think my assumption in this case is dead on. There was no other reason to start this right now. It is very divisive.

[formernaderite]

17. Clinton and his third way moderate politics is why we're here

fighting to move the country left again. If I never saw or heard from Clinton again, it wouldn't be too soon. OH...and his two terms were never won with even a minor plurality of the vote. It's the one thing I have the most regret over...voting for him in the 92 primary....what was I thinking.

[madfloridian]

24. Most all the founders of the Third Way are gone...Blair is going.

But many are still here and trying to keep the GOP in power with such silly stunts as Unity 08....a subject I posted about and talked to myself about on the whole thread. No one realizes what they are doing, and they don't seem to care.

[Auntie Bush]

41. If Clinton hadn't modified (triangulated) Dems wouldn't have been in power

for 8 years. We'd have had GHWB again (Now you tell me who is better.)
and who the hell knows who the fundies would have put in next. Instead we had years of prosperity...and he would have gotten bin Laden if it wasn't for those Fundies checking out his undies. Something is better than nothing. Time to be pragmatic. It's nice to have your principles but not at the expense of losing. I'd rather win! It's called COMPROMISING STUPID. No, not you, you know what I mean, so don't take offense.! You sound more like an intolerant, angry, Republican rather than a Democratic.

[madfloridian]

42. Aha! If we question we are not a Democrat?

Oh, come on. That's not fair, now is it?

[Auntie Bush]

45. Sorry, you misunderstood. I didn't question you. I was making

a comment regarding formernaderite's hatred of Clinton...who could be elected president of the world if there was such a thing.

[formernaderite]

73. you seem to conveniently forget that before Clinton we had the congress

the first two years of his presidency he had control of the whole govt in the US, he lost it all. He had TWO years to get alot of programs through, and he backed off of all his promises. Don't ask don't tell was born....worse IMHO than the blatant discrimination that already existed. His triangulations led to the Gingrich revolt. He'd primed the public for this. Of course he was then stuck moderating...he'd lost control, and since he'd never been elected the first time with a plurality, he didn't feel he had enough backers.
Can we say Welfare Reform....I don't recall reform, I recall telling the poor, they're OUT. All for political expediency. Sure, the Monica crap was totally unfair...and after 92 the only time I again supported his ass. So looking back, Monica was a blessing....he actually managed to regain support. Sorry, but it's your priniciples that got us into this mess. I was happy being a lefty....we used to be in control....until Clinton.

[Stardust]

18. Why does everything have to be either/or?

[blm]

19. Clinton closed the books on Bush1, oversaw collapsed party infrastructure

in too many states with his handpicked DNC team, and refused to speak out in 2002, 3 and 4 when Dems are weak on terror meme was being used against every Dem and Dem candidate based on charges against Clinton's dealings with terror issue.

Dean is working his ass off to repair the party infrastructure that had been so weakened it couldn't secure the votes earned by Dem candidates in 2000, 2002, and 2004.

[madfloridian]

23. Thank you.

There is room for everyone who is working for our party.

This poll was done for divisive reasons.

There are some things we need to talk about. Closing the books about the Bush family is one of them. I stand with you on that.

There were so many times before to speak up. There are too many Dem candidate victims of his refusal to speak out against the Bush family and realize that his Oval office love life took a huge toll on our party.

[Bucky]

21. The original subject line reads like a note passed between 8th graders

OMG, Billy is like, sooo, awesome, like. But I dunno, Howie is totally hawt!

[madfloridian]

26. There is no need for this kind of stuff. It is not a personality contest.

You are right. It should not have been posted. It is flamebait.

[Guaranteed]

33. I've posted a poll like this before, and it wasn't meant as

flamebait at all.

I like both of them, although Bill pisses me off sometimes. I'd seen Bill on TV and was amazed at his charm, once again.

But Dean has some great charm of his own- he is highly disarming, self-deprecating. I think they're both great. Clinton is "smoother," while I think Dean is actually more self-endearing and respectable.

[NYCGirl]

27. Who'd win in a fight? Kirk or Picard? NT

[AtomicKitten]

29. Kirk.

:)

[NCarolinawoman]

39. Yes, Kirk. Very feisty guy.

Pickard was more cerebral. :)

[AtomicKitten]

98. yabbut

Kirk is way cuter.

[ddeclue]

87. Kirk

[Cameron27]

96. kirk

and big dog.

[Mass]

28. Dean no context!

Clinton is responsible for the state this party is in. He did nothing during the 12 years he was the leader of the party (8 as president and 4 because McAuliffe was at the head of the DNC) to develop a grassroot movement that would have helped to win the election in 00, 02, and 04.

Sure, he knows how to pander to people, but he does not really seem to care where his actions would lead.

For the last 2 years, Dean has been fighting to build a party which does not depend on one person and his charisma, but on people and ideas.

[Totally Committed]

31. Amen...

I totally agree.

TC

[Vidar]

34. Like them both, but I've never been burned by Howard.

[NJ Democrats]

37. CLinton, by far!

[NCarolinawoman]

38. I like them both in different ways and for different reasons!

We need both of them out there speaking up. We are living in dangerous times. Both of these men have intelligence and guts, and I admire that. :)

[bigwillq]

40. Howard Dean

:bounce:

[LWolf]

43. I've never been a big fan of either, but

acknowlege the strengths of both men.

That said, it would have to be Dean. While I have some differences with him, I have more with Bill.

[newsguyatl]

44. no contest -- DEAN of course

i was glad to be the tie breaking vote just now. :-)

[WildEyedLiberal]

46. What's the purpose of this poll?

How are Howard Dean and Bill Clinton remotely comparable?

I like things about both of them and dislike things about both of them but altogether I think Dean is the one who, right now, is actually trying to build the Democratic party as a whole and promote its success as an entire unit, as opposed to making calculated sound bites that are attempting to further his wife's future political agenda.

That said, I'm not voting because I don't really want to give this poll any validity - I have no idea what the purpose of juxtaposing these two is, but my guess is that it's more cloak-n-dagger DU intraparty shit. Well, have fun with that, everyone...

[madfloridian]

47. Actually I agree with you.

There is no validity to it. They have different places in the party. There is no real way to compare.

[WildEyedLiberal]

53. Stop the presses!

Madfloridian and WildEyedLiberal AGREE!

Heh. Seriously though, I don't get why people aren't focused on 2006 instead of this petty shit. We have the chance to elect a Democratic congress this year, but for some people, pissing matches like this poll are more important. I'm supporting all DEMS who are working their asses off for the party this year - and that includes John Kerry, Howard Dean, and every other Dem who is sending out letters and emails, raising money, and stumping around the country to take our country back.

[madfloridian]

49. I think it was meant, quite bluntly...

to put some of us in our place...and to show that Howard Dean was not as respected. So in that aspect it failed, as HD sort of held his own.

[fuzzyball]

48. Clinton is the 1st TWO TERM democrat president since Roosevelt,

and we had to wait 44 years for that to happen!
Bill Clinton will go down in history as the most
popular president of last half of 20th century.

[madfloridian]

50. And he needs to stand up the Bush family, not hang with them.

See the post about George Bush and Rev. Moon. It is in this forum.

[fuzzyball]

65. Clinton is not your typical RABID partisan politician...he believes in

BI-PARTISANSHIP, Traiangulation, good manners & CIVILITY,
Free-Trade, peace, and PROSPERITY amongst others.

There is nothing wrong with Bill pursuing noble goals with Bush-41.

[AtomicKitten]

66. Laura Bush and Rupert Murdoch participated in CGI

Clinton's Global Initiative. I don't give a crap if Hitler gave money. It's a fabulous cause.

Wonderful things can be accomplished when people drop the partisan crappola and work together. And, you are right, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that, in fact, there is everything right about it.

[madfloridian]

67. You can have very good manners and still not hang with the Bushes

and the Murdochs.

I agree with the noble goals, but these are not ordinary Republicans.

If they were, I would not care so much. They are extremists who will use him for credibility and attack him and spit him out.

[ddeclue]

88. If Clinton can make Rupert Murdoch spend money on Global Warming

rather than FoxNews then I'd say that's pretty damned impressive.

Doug D.

[madfloridian]

89. But that comes with obligations.

Just like our sucking up to K Street, you know like Steny Hoyer is bragging about?

All we are doing I fear is allowing them to switch the money from one party to another.

And there are still a few of my posts you haven't answered yet.

[ddeclue]

90. I'm not trying to answer all your posts...

Bill Clinton doesn't owe anyone any favors for their money.

If Clinton gets the money on our side then fine...it's awfully hard to win against the money..

Maybe he can talk Branson into buying a cable network...

I think Murdoch is smart enough to know that he has written himself into a corner with FoxNews and wants to avoid totally isolating himself from the Democrats when they come back into power this November so THAT is why he's sucking up to Clinton - not the other way around.

Doug D.

[madfloridian]

69. I have good manners, I am civil, I have noble goals.

And Bill Clinton is most surely not going to get those things hanging out with this extremist family.

Did you guys read the post about George Bush and Rev. Moon? Read it.

Please don't imply that those of us who think he is wrong for being so close to them are not civil and well-mannered.

[madfloridian]

70. Here is an article about Poppa Bush and Moon.

You might not want to read the whole long thread in the forum, so this will summarize only a small part of it. People are known by the people they hang around with.

From 2000, Robert Parry

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2000/101100a.html

"Moon apparently was seeking a business foothold in North Korea. But the transactions also raise legal questions for Moon and could cast a shadow on George W. Bush’s presidential campaign, given the Bush family’s longstanding financial and political ties to Moon and his organization.

Besides making alleged payments to North Korea’s communist leaders, the 80-year-old founder of the South Korean-based Unification Church has funneled large sums of money, possibly millions of dollars as well, to former President George H.W. Bush.

One well-placed former leader of Moon’s Unification Church told me that the total earmarked for former President Bush was $10 million. The father of the Republican nominee has declined to say how much Moon’s organization actually paid him for speeches and other services in Asia, the United States and South America.

At one Moon-sponsored speech in Argentina in 1996, Bush declared, “I want to salute Reverend Moon,” whom Bush praised as “the man with the vision.”

Bush made these speeches at a time when Moon was expressing intensely anti-American views. In his own speeches, Moon termed the United States “Satan’s harvest” and claimed that American women descended from a “line of prostitutes.”

[fuzzyball]

74. I agree with AtomicKitten above that I could'nt care less who

gives help for good causes. If Hitler and Stalin contributed
to help abused spouses and children, I have nothing against it.
That does not mean I agree with their philosophy or agenda. All
that matters is that worthy and noble causes take precedence over
everything else.

[MODemocrat]

51. I like them both very much

However, Bill Clinton got my vote because he has proven he is a leader. It's sort of like apples &
oranges, you like both, but for different reasons. They're both great Americans.:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :patriot: :patriot:

[AtomicKitten]

54. me too which is why I didn't vote

People are trashing the poll, accusing the OP of nefarious motivation, but IMO it's just silliness. Kinda like asking which Becky on Roseanne you prefer.

[madfloridian]

55. Don't use language like trashing...

No one is trashing the poll. I am concerned that people do not understand it. Clinton and Dean have different roles in the party, and they can not be compared in a poll of who do you like best.

It was a poll that could have been divisive. Very much so.

[AtomicKitten]

56. tell you what

You choose your words and I'll chose mine.

The poll is just silly.

If I were pressed to guess why you've been flitting around it all day (now I'll encroach on your space unsolicited as you have on mine), I'd venture to guess it's because Dean is slightly behind and you are verklemped. BFD. It doesn't mean anything. We can like both men. Most people realize it's just silliness on a Saturday afternoon and don't give it another thought.

[madfloridian]

57. We agree the poll is silly.

I venture to say you don't understand it. A couple of people have corresponded with me who do get it.

I am not even sure the poster was aware. We don't need stuff like this right now everytime someone says something they disagree with.

I am never going to fit with either side here, I never have.

I get just as cross with the ones on the left who want everything from the party on every issue, as I do with the ones who are not willing to realize our party is messed up right now because of the DLC type policies.

I don't fit with either, and I have my say in a nice way.

[Cascadian]

58. Just tied the count for Howard Dean

58 to 58 last count.


John

[madfloridian]

59. Well, since the poll is there...I am glad he is holding his own.

It is pretty awesome to do that against a 2-term president. It should not have been presented that way, as their places in the party are different.

:hi:

[AtomicKitten]

60. glad to see you happy now

Whether you believe it or not, it pains me to see you get so worked up about some of this stuff.

[madfloridian]

61. I have goals. We have goals here locally, and we are focused.

We are powerhouses who are bucking the system here. It has been a rough week for our county party. But we will survive it. DFA attendance is up, and that is good.

I have not been worked up today. I think that is meant as a sort of slam, and I don't like that.

I have been cross that a poll was put up comparing apples and oranges.

Now, when people get cross because I present valid points, perhaps they are more worked up than I am.

[AtomicKitten]

62. no worries

I guess I am always cognizant of the fact that we have bigger fish to fry than to worry about this nonsense. And I'm sorry if you took a conciliatory gesture as a slam, but I have no control over how you perceive things which is unfortunate because you frequently take things wrong or see the very worst in people or situations.

So, I guess that's that. I tried.

[madfloridian]

63. When you say I have my goals focused on wrong things...

that is most certainly not conciliatory.

That is just pretending to be.

[AtomicKitten]

64. see my post above

#62

I tried and I'm done.

[samsingh]

68. the same!

[BlueIris]

71. Are we back to this crap again? Dean: hack. Clinton: leader.

[madfloridian]

72. That's a terrible thing to say.

.

[MrsMatt]

76. Such sucinct analysis of the two men; I'm in awe.

If I was a person who used smileys, you'd see the sarcasm one here right now.

Rather than blithely assigning labels, perhaps a more thoughtful and insightful analysis would be in order. Name-calling is typically a measure of immaturity.

[ddeclue]

75. Dean is minor league..Clinton's still the champ...

[madfloridian]

80. That sounds rude and tasteless,and this poll gave an opening for it.

And that is why it is divisive, because it opened the way for attacks on both.

[ddeclue]

84. Sorry you don't like it but it's true...

Bill's head and shoulders above any other living American politician.

The only one in recent history who could communicate to voters at his level was Reagan - before that you'd have to go back to JFK or FDR to find comparable talent.

Doug D.
Orlando, FL

[madfloridian]

85. You could have praised one without insulting the other.

That is why this post is so very divisive.

[Name removed]

86. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rep the dems]

77. Dean.

[madfloridian]

79. The more I see this divisive poll, the more pissed I get.

I am very glad Clnton is finally standing up for himself. Others have been speaking out also.

All these years they have bashed him. So it is very good to see this happen, like he did on FOX. Why did it take so long?

We have some who started speaking out in 2003 and they were not supported. In fact our own party left them hanging out to dry. Remember when Howard Dean said we were no safer when Saddam was captured? Good Lord, folks, where were the Clintons then? Why did our own party rip him apart for it? Of course they knew we were not safer. They all knew it then,too.

So good for him. But why is there a personality cult thread that is still going on?

Everybody has a role to play in this party. They are only two of our Democrats.

John Kerry has been speaking out all over the place. Edwards has been working with unions and the needy. Dean is trying to rebuild a long-neglected party...Kucinich is reiterating the war is wrong and actively working for peace.

And we have to see this divisive poll still going on.

Gosh, I even heard Laura Flanders say just now how wonderful it was someone was finally speaking out? Well, I call Bullshit on that. Democrats have been speaking out a lot, and they just don't get any attention.

[madfloridian]

82. Again why now?

They have been ripping him apart for at least 10 years, we all tried to defend him. Now he is avoiding criticism of Bush, but at least defending himself.

Yet he and Hillary still have not said the war was wrong, have they? Have I missed it?

Let's talk. Let's discuss it. Why now?

[natrat]

81. the dawg is scumbag pig and why we are here now

[madfloridian]

83. That's an ugly and divisive thing to say.

I wish the OP would do the right thing and asked this thread be locked. We have all had to do that at one time or the other.

[AtomicKitten]

91. at least the post is expressing a consistent POV

Your schizophrenic posts throughout this thread alternately trash Clinton and then defend him, applaud only pro-Dean posts while pretending to be neutral, whine and complain about the poll, all the while chastising people for their opinion and lecturing them on a mish-mash of conflicting ideology. Perhaps the most telling post of yours was recommending the thread be locked, probably your intention all along as you've hovered over it.

For crissakes, pick a consistent POV of your own and have the common courtesy to be still and allow others to be heard.

[madfloridian]

93. That's the problem, many of us like both of them. How do you vote for one

Can't you see how that is divisive?

And many times I have written the mods to ask that a post of mine be locked because I had not counted on the reactions.

I like Clinton, and I like Dean. I think Clinton needs to let others have some time now. But his global intiative is great.

I just defended Clinton and you jump me for that. Can you see the utter silliness in that?

[fuzzyball]

97. AtomicK...I am now convinced you have a brilliant mind and can

express yourself succintly. I get weak kneed when I come
across a female who is brilliant. :hi:

[TheDonkey]

92. The original Big Dawg

He's not perfect (and will admit it) but he was a great President. Hope he continues to smack down this rightwing media.

[bklyncowgirl]

94. I'm not playing this game. I love'em both.

I've had my doubts about Bill Clinton but after what the right wing did to him I realized that for all of his faults and all the issues I disagreed with him on that Clinton was a good man indeed.

I've often cheered but sometimes wondered whether Dean, who's an outspoken leader of an outspoken faction of the party and not someone who is loved and admired by all Democrats should be the party chairman. That being said, perhaps there is no "unity figure" who could please all party factions and Dean is doing a good job of stirring things up at the DNC.

What I like about both is that neither take any bullshit from conservative pundits. The only interview I can remember coming anywhere close to Clinton's smackdown of Chris Wallace was Dean's humbling a frustrated Wolf Blitzer on the Abramoff scandal.

We ned to see more this and soon.

[Seabiscuit]

95. #87 for Dr. Dean. No way I'm letting WJC beat him out.

So now it's tied again.

[UrbScotty]

102. In a related story... Lincoln or FDR?

;-)

[demo dutch]

104. I just love the Big Dog!