This is Rove's "Night of the Long Kniives"

[arendt]

ITs late, but I just had this "aha" moment about the Foley thing.

----

This is Rove's "Night of the Long Knives"

All the closet perverts that the GOP have been using have finally given Bush what he wanted: dictatorial power. He doesn't need them any more. So as Hitler wiped out the SA (brownshirts) which was full of homosexuals, Rove will wipe out the closet gays (unless they are real players in the inner circle).

Bush will say he is shocked and prosecute them all. The fundamentalists will buy this lie, and see Bush rooting out the dreaded queers. They will miss the fact that the dreaded queers are all REPUBLICANS. (If they can buy that John Kerry isn't a war hero, then they can buy that the GOP were decieved by these sneaky queers. No problem in Bizarro world. Just turn on the media machine.)

I just can't be a coincidence theorists on this.

It's not a coincidence that the story broke the day after Bush got dictatorial power.

Its not a coincidence that Foley's Democratic opponent is a recent "convert" from the GOP, who just happens to be a screaming fundie.

Its not a coincidence that all the potential victims are second-rate hacks, like Hastert and Boenner. The powers that be are just cleaning house.

I predict that Newt Gingrich will be speaker of the house again.

This is getting rid of the street thugs who got the dictator into power. The hard-core fundamentalists are hanging onto power. They finally will be able to draw blood. It doesn't matter that it is GOP blood, because it will allow them to pass even stricter laws against sexual conduct.

It is politically brilliant. His fundie followers will swallow any koolaid to keep believing in Godly George.

The Democrats should stay on the topic of dictatorial power and the mess in Iraq. They can point out the total hypocrisy of the GOP on sex, but they should leave the press to do the work on this.

[Straight Shooter]

1. If Ken Mehlman gets the ax, I might believe you.

I think the Foley situation was a major F-up, though, by the Repubs, and nothing more. Boehner and Hastert never got their stories straight before talking to the press, which means Rove didn't have time to coach them.

[spag68]

4. Rove

What makes you think he cares about Hastert and Boener, who might be going down on other charges anyway.

[Straight Shooter]

16. I don't think he cares about them personally, or their careers.

I think he cares a lot about how their involvement might tarnish his carefully crafted image of the GOP that he presents to the public.

[arendt]

9. Question: is Mehlman "an insider player" or just another hack?

Rove runs the show. What does Mehlman do except shovel out the shit Karl
dishes up?

OTOH, if you know that Mehlman has real power, then he will stay.

Otherwise, he will get thrown overboard when this shit really hits the fan.

My timeline says that the feeding frenzy on this will go all the way to the
election. There could be more "stunts" like resignations coupled with
RNC-coordinated writein candidates with massive media buys. Picture
lots of contrite GOPers telling their fundie suckers to please forgive them
and vote for whoever George puts in their place. (If they don't perform
this final service for George, its the meathook for them.)

The more I talk about this scenario, the more worried I get.

arendt

[stopbush]

17. Isn't bush's shadow government still in place? The one he formed

after 9/11 to replace everybody in Congress "in a worse-cased scenario"?

That may be a candidate pool for them. Bushco could throw out 100 GOP Congressmen pre-election, tell their voters to
"vote for the R on the ballot even though he resigned" and "we'll replace him with an EVEN BETTER candidate
once the party wins." Then, they stack Congress with bush sychophants who will make the do-nothing Congress
look like a civil rights rally.

Don't forget - Rove has the down-n-dirty on everybody in Congress. They could threaten them easily: "either resign
NOW with the excuse that you were negligent in policing Foley, or we'll let the world know about your trysts with
those kids in the Dominican Republic." What RW fuck wouldn't take that deal?

Could happen.

[Lars39]

22. Yes.

And they've also developed the 'Doomsday plan'.

[Straight Shooter]

21. Of course Mehlman has his own problems now, too.

Something about a bribe.

But, oh, yeah, Rove is also involved in a bribe.

Goodness. So many scandals, so little time to clean them up before the election. :)

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

30. Agreed. Even if they controlled the voting, why let this out before NOV?

Makes no sense of any kind that I can see.

[arendt]

39. To keep the focus off the real issues.

So they don't have to respond to Woodward, Powell, etc. on how they screwed up the war.

So no one pays any attention to the Torture Law and any legal actions about it.

So no one nails Hastert for ILLEGALLY appointing the GOP replacement for Duke Cunningham
BEFORE the tainted votes were FRAUDULENTLY approved. (Like Ken Lay, the dead man's
relatives get to keep the loot from the robbery.)

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

68. These are the real issues to 25% or more of the population

They're more concerned with "queers" and "Family Values" than the war or anything else.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

73. We'll agree to disagree. I put nothing past the Repubs, but they'd much

rather distract by making some Dem scandal real or imagined than having publicity about this kind of thing on one of their own. I think the damage outweighs any benefits, although I do agree about the unfortunate effect on attention to REAL issues.

[Atman]

63. Isn't Melman another one who lives at home with Mommy?

I think so. Anyone know for sure?

[stopbush]

2. A few days ago, I posted a thread to the same effect.

It was pre-Foley and concerned haebeus corpus, and the belief of Rs that they would somehow
be immune from bush's party purges. Totalitarian regimes always clean house once they've fully arrived.

You may be right.

BTW - it would also give smirky a chance to get rid of the gay party boys that are left over from Raygun/Poppy's regimes.

[Lars39]

3. They might even frame a couple of Democrats to make it look 'right'

if they have to.

[arendt]

12. they've already started in on Barney Frank n/t

[havocmom]

5. Interesting and plausible

yes sir

Bush, or the presidency has dictatorial powers. Just as the networks do not need all those talking heads when only one story is told, the unitary executive will not need all those nodding bobble heads of Congress.

There will come a time of bugetary constraints and the networks will only need one talking head. Congress is already obsolete.

Hope all the enablers enjoy being outsourced along with the rest of us.

[spag68]

11. Networks,

NBC in particular, I have heard to be considering MSNBC to be all investigating stories and moving the successful shows to CNBC.

[Erika]

6. I still want the fundie organizations to speak up about Foley

or give them your comments. They need to have enough guts to take a stand. Force them to do so.

Jerry Falwell www.falwell.com
American Family Association www.afa.net
James Dobson www.family.org
Tony Perkins www.frc.org

Lets make the fundie organizations take a stand.

[MissMarple]

7. They wish.....

However, Rovie will try to weasel out of this. Spin...spin...spin...ect....

What is Howard Dean saying? That is where my money is....:evilgrin:

[aquart]

8. Thank you for your concern.

Of course, when you say "The Democrats...they can......" I get a little uncomfortable. Since I thought the Democrats were "we."

Just keep preaching that Rove is infallible like the Pope garbage. Someone will buy it, I'm sure.

[arendt]

18. When I say "the Democrats", I mean the elected politicians

I'm saying there is much bigger game afoot than one pervert GOP critter.
The GOP have towns full of perverts begging for a chance to strut their
stuff.

We need to stay on message: the Constitution has been destroyed. The Iraq War is a disaster.

Jumping into the Foley frenzy will just reinforce the total lack of awareness that our government
has been overthrown.

arendt

[Tellurian]

10. Excellent analogy..

Thanks for raising everyones sites, from the voluminous
amount of threads being created here, regarding Foley.

I think you're on to something where the core Evangelicals
will clean house of the degenerate debris and like you said
about Newt...they will attempt to recycle him back as a player.

[stopbush]

13. Bay Buchanan threw the House leadership under the bus tonite on CNN.

The signal was clear - they failed and they should be forced out. Bay is a lockstep RW defender who never gives quarter
on anything. I think she's changed her tune in the past two days on Foley.

This is a sign that the word has been given to toss Boner, Hazard and the rest of the rubber stamps.

[arendt]

20. Exactly. This is coordinated, like everything else in the corporarte media

n/t

[formercia]

54. The enabling act has passed Congress

The Fuhrer has his dictatorial powers. Thanks for all the fish....

[tuvor]

14. That Karl. Is there anything he can't do?

[arendt]

23. I forgot - one more coincidence - this stomps on Woodward's book...

You can't get me to believe that the media goes off like a missile ON A WEEKEND
without it being exactly what Rove wants.

You think the media just all of the sudden woke up?

Keep dreaming, all the way to the gas chamber.

arendt

[tuvor]

24. If you say so.

[arendt]

26. keep whistling past the graveyard

[tuvor]

27. Sure thing.

[rubberducky]

15. Can the repubs put just anybody they want to in

Foley`s seat?? This could get very interesting. Isn`t Jeb out of work as of January??

[arendt]

25. How soon we forget Hastert's maneuver in illegally seating Bilbray...

he basically gave the Speaker the dictatorial power to appoint anyone he wants ,
regardless of election results.

Another service rendered on the way to the chopping block.

arendt

[Lars39]

19. Also add in Gonzales' pep talk to the judges.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2536081&mesg_id=2536081
Bushco's solidifying its power now.

[Jim Sagle]

28. This thread is a perfect exercise in self-destructive, naive cycnicism.

Far from "whistling past the graveyard," those who reject this thesis are refusing to buy into its portrayal of absolute Republican power.

Foleygate and Woodwardgate do not cancel each other out, they reinforce each other. No strategist with any knowledge of his own self-interest would ratchet up either one to cancel out the other.

Yes, democracy is on life support after the legislative events of last week. But it's not over until we say it's over.

I say it's not over, how 'bout you?

[tuvor]

32. Well put.

Thank you.

[arendt]

40. You got bupkus. Your sound bites add nothing to this discussion. n/t

[tuvor]

46. Excuse me, I was thanking Jim Sagle.

[arendt]

56. I responded at length to Mr. Sable's intelligent comments...

you haven't said anything worth responding to.

arendt

[tuvor]

60. And yet you continue to respond to all of my posts.

[Tellurian]

36. Not Over Yet..

I don't believe the Foley scandal is a deliberate distraction.

I don't think they saw the public outrage coming..

link to GOP members shaken to the core:


Republican Lawmakers Scramble to Avoid Taint of House Scandal

By Jay Newton-Small and Laura Litvan

Oct. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Republican congressional candidates scrambled to distance themselves from the Mark Foley sex scandal, fearing it might implicate their leaders and deal a final blow to the party's bid to keep control of the House in November elections.

~snip~

``Toleration of inappropriate behavior is almost as bad as the behavior itself,'' said Representative Heather Wilson, a Republican from New Mexico who faces a difficult race in November.

Representative Rob Simmons of Connecticut sounded a similar theme as his Democratic opponent, Joe Courtney, raised the issue on the campaign trail. ``If it is found that any member of Congress or staff willingly participated in a cover-up of Mr. Foley's actions, that individual should resign immediately,'' Simmons said.

~snip~

Carl Forti, a spokesman for the National Republican Congressional Committee, called the Democratic response ``political grandstanding.''

``They're trying to take advantage of an unfortunate situation,'' he said. ``I don't know how it helps them.''


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a5Z_J1wazEb8&refer=home

(link may have been scrubbed)

[arendt]

38. Last I looked, the GOP had an absolute lock on the media...

when the media jump on something on the weekend, I figure its because they have marching orders.

That is the first point I would like your response to.

Second, watch the amount of coverage that this issue gets, versus the REAL issues (Constitution,
Iraq, Iran, deficit), between now and the election.

Best case, this is a great tactical move by the GOP - take all your damage on the issue that is LEAST
important.

Do you agree that this issue is taking the focus off the legitimacy and Constitution wrecking, which are
very difficult issues for Joe Sixpack to focus on? How are we ever going to get democracy back if all
we talk about are sex scandals and blowing up brown-skinned people?

What does this issue do to help Lamont beat Lieberman? Lieberman just gets an opportunity to distract
from his Iraq cheerleading by jumping on Foley.

----

Who cares if the GOP loses control of Congress. Bush simply calls for another BIG terrorist event, declares
martial law, and starts disappearing people into those camps that Haliburton is building.

The Democrats are in a lose-lose situation.

If they win the election, Bush just "kicks over the table" of a democracy he has already destroyed. If they
lose the election, its onward to the same destination with slightly less violence.

----

Bottom line: I have seen five years of "the tide is turning". I am skeptical. The press is so bought and paid
for that anything they say, I distrust. They sometimes tell the truth, but only when it gives the GOP a tactical
advantage.



arendt

[Jim Sagle]

74. There IS a lock on the media. But it may not be the GOP that controls it.

Corporate interests allied with CIA moles (Operation Mockingbird, anyone?) do. That's why Woodward wasted two books and much of his good name (:D) to produce one honest read.

It may well have dawned on our ruling jackals that this regime of rats and roaches is truly bad for business, and that a government which can put anyone away without a reason can do the same to them if not quelled.

The business class here is much more powerful than its 1930s German counterpart. I believe they can take him down.

Second, I believe Foleygate IS a real issue. It displays GOP arrogance, dishonesty and unaccountabilty to one and all. And Woodward is going to get plenty of air time as well.

As for the lose-lose scenario, what's the point in discussing it? If you're right, we should all log off DU at once and make other plans.

[Pacifist Patriot]

51. Thank you

[leftofthedial]

29. aha.

arendt, you are smart.

[Armstead]

31. You forget something

Bush and Rove are the biggest hacks of all.

If there is housecleaning to be done, both of them would be on the short list to join the rest of the thugs.

No I think the Foley case has other origins. Don't know what, but such a scandal is the last thing the GOP needs right now.

[arendt]

45. I respect your opinion, but I think both are indispensible until...

democracy is destroyed and the real powers seat themselves upon the throne.
(Or we may have a Shogunate situation, where those powers rule through
puppets like Reagan and Bush Jr. as a policy.)

You can't toss Bush and Rove without a replacement. They will keep them
there until 2008. Then it will be McCain or some other controllable scum,
probably even more fundamentalist than Bush.

Just my opinion.

arendt

[Armstead]

62. It's been that way for decades -- perhaps throughout American history

We have nothing close to a real democracy today. Them with the money are already in control. Have been for a long while.

American history has always been the tug and pull between the general idea of populist democracy and control of the system by the elite. And between this zxegment of the elite against that segment of the elite.

Control by the elite oligarchs went into hyperdrive in the 70's, and has been accelerating ever since. Only the scale changes, as the scale of society gets bigger and technology fuels it.

[undergroundpanther]

33. Strange that you say long knives

Could the penis measuring revalations be a kind of coded signal to the"insiders" on how the plan for full spectum world domination is moving along..? weird.The coincidence in the archetypal stuff.

[arendt]

41. Nice satire. Hope you don't believe it. n/t

[LeftCoast]

34. That would be like a bank robber shooting himself to distract attention

from the robbery.

:shrug:

[arendt]

43. More like the robber tossing some accomplices out of the getaway car...

to keep the cops distracted.

Sort of like the scene in the original Thunderball, where the bad guy
jettisons the back of the boat, turns the front into a hydrofoil and speeds
to a getaway. Only we haven't got any James Bond on board the WH
to save our sorry asses.

arendt

[MattP]

35. Rove

You give Rove to much credit and the American people wont put up with a party that harbors pedophiles so
whatever benefit there is to this story the damage is much greater. From now on when you say Republican leadership people will think of pedophile cover up.

[Disturbed]

37. This story will fade as all the other scandals have done.

Something else will take it's place in a week. This is a temporary injury to the RWing. Most of the RWing stalwarts will view this a freak aberration and an anti-Gay issue. The Gannon/Guckert scandal is ancient history now. The RWing religio Zealots mostly ignored that. Americans seem almost shock proof after all the shocking events of the past five years.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

42. Rove, shmove. He's not behind this; you give him too much credit.

He's clever and evil, but he's not some all-powerful mastermind. Some things are out of his control, and this is one of them. Sometimes shit just happens, and I can't see how the news about this perv Foley is good for the Republicans in any way.

[arendt]

44. At best, he is reacting instead of initiating...

do you think he isn't working the phones, shaping the news coverage?

I haven't had time to check, but I bet the corporate media is pretty silent
about anything but Foley this AM. They'll give it Jon Benet Ramsey coverage.

The actual situationbe somewhat out of control, but they have almost total control
of the media. They have called black white before and gotten away with it. As
they say, reality doesn't matter - we create reality.

Emphasizing Foley is making the best of a situation that would sink anyone who
didn't have media control. Watch how it plays out. Watch how it paralyzes and
flatfoots the Dems. Watch Joe Lieberman save his sorry ass by pounding this
target.

arendt

[The Backlash Cometh]

47. I really wonder if blacks, hispanics and gays who are Republican are

REALLY Republican? It's a Catch 22 kind of question. Are they Republican because they put their self-interest first, or, are they Republicans BECAUSE they put their self-interest first?

[arendt]

50. Careful, the nasty ones (GOPers) are the ones still in the closet.

The driving force is self-loathing.

arendt

[The Backlash Cometh]

53. Maybe you can say that about Republicans in general?

They're driving force is self-loathing? With a tinge of resentment and jealousy.

[arendt]

58. That would be the ones who sell their souls for money and power...

but then there are the super rich, the wannabee kings.

They don't loathe themselves, they loathe the filthy working masses.

arendt

[rosesaylavee]

48. Noo. Don't think so as

Rove and Boooosh have skeletons in their closet (among other things) and would be outed too for their not so hidden sexuality.

Still not convinced that this an intended ploy of Rove's.

[YOY]

49. and furthermore this is a little close to election time for this

I hardly think this a 'night of the long knives' but just things blowing up in their faces.

[arendt]

55. How many fundie ministers have been caught w their pants down and...

still people accept their repentance and keep sending the money?

They aren't losing anyone who can't be replaced. And they are keeping
the focus away from stuff that is monumentally important, like demolishing
the Constitutiion.

arendt

[YOY]

57. True that...

n/t

[arendt]

52. To the true believers and the corporate media, Bush is untouchable

The skeletons have been rotting in the town square for six years:

AWOL
drugged out of his mind
getting the feed over an earpiece
Guckert/Gannon
Massaging the German PM

and on and on.

He is untouchable.

If he fucked a horse in public, they would say he is an outdoorsman
and an animal lover.

arendt

[rosesaylavee]

61. I think that children are involved in this one

will give it legs. Soccer moms won't like the idea of their boys (or boys the same age of their boys at home) being schtumped by old men and that there was tacit longstanding agreement among the old men that it was 'ok' and a rite of passage for working in DC.

Let's have this discussion in a weeks time - we should know by then if it has any staying power. And if its gone away, you will have my most sincere mea culpas.

[lostnfound]

67. Is there any evidence or indications that..

there was any physical contact?

If yes, it will certainly have legs..
Even if the answer is no, you may still be right, but the media seems infinitely able to whitewash stuff (write it off as a drinking problem, lull the public back to sleep..)

[rosesaylavee]

71. Not yet - but the level of sexual pressure in the IM

exchange should be considered verbally abusive.

AND, still waiting to hear how the Shimkus-arranged bidding 'date' turned out with the young page and Foley in 2001. My hunch is this guy wasn't satisfied with just talking about it.

[arendt]

59. LATE FOR WORK... BACK THIS EVENING n/t

[rosesaylavee]

65. Me too...

Just one last thought that may give you some hope you are mistaken... a better weekend to spring bad news would be this coming weekend as it is a long one and the last weekend many will get away with their families before the holidays.

[formercia]

64. It's spooky

just as if they were trying to recreate history. We all know how that ended...:evilgrin:

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome....

[The Count]

66. Shouldn't Rove commit harakiri by this rule?

Wasn't there an Abramoff connected hookergate as well?

[Pale Blue Dot]

69. And once again... for the umpteenth time

And funny how the OPs never respond when I post this....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2263454&mesg_id=2263454

Those claiming Foley "distraction" are overestimating average Americans

Average Americans are not getting all worked up about the torture bill because they honestly believe that it has nothing to do with them. You and I know that that is not the case, but Mr. & Mrs. Joe Sixpack are not us.

However, the Sixpacks have kids. And they love a good sex scandal. Watching the drama unfold is how they unwind at the end of the night, and it's what they talk about at work the next day.

The Torture Bill is our worst nightmare. The Foley scandal is the Republican's worst nightmare. I can't imagine anything worse for them right now.

[Beetwasher]

70. Yes! Rove Is A GOD AMONG MEN!! There Is NOTHING That is NOT a Rovian Plot!

Everything that happens is engineered by Rove! Look out! Quiver in your boots! He predicts every move! Pulls every string! Everything that happens, happens at his direction and at his discretion! Don't even try, don't move, don't breath or you will benefit Rove and play right into his hands!

He's the ultimate super jeenyus!!! He is a GOD!!!

:eyes:

Good grief.

[Zynx]

72. Unless some other angle comes out of this story, this was uniformly

negative for the Republicans. Karl Rove is no genius. He has won three elections in his life that were important and I can explain each one:

1. 1994, Republican wave and it was Texas. Does he want a cookie
2. 2000, Media hurt Gore badly and election was stolen(not so good) even though Bush had a 16 point lead in late 1999
3. 2004, Kerry ran a weak campaign and Rove barely pulled it out with gay bashing

He could not save Jerry Kilgore or Doug Forrester last year despite big efforts in both cases, particularly with Kilgore. He even made the mistake of sending Bush down at the last moment and he was humiliated.

The Foley scandal only makes the Republican-run House look even worse and will only help Democrats. You folks give Karl waaayyyyy too much credit.

[Vidar]

75. I hope you are wrong but nothing is beyond this bunch.

[beaconess]

76. Bulldinky - you're giving Rove way too much credit

Rove is a smart, savvy political operator, but he is not the all-powerful Oz he would love for us to believe him to be.

If we give him this kind of credit, we're essentially saying that we are powerless before him - which, of course, makes him all the more powerful and us completely powerless.

This is not a nefarious plot by Rove - the Republicans in the House screwed up and it's coming down on them. This happens all the time in politics. It's their turn to have it happen to them.

[Imagevision]

77. Even Rove is still out on Foley mess - too many players involved

Predicting which direction to proceed will require at least another week, tomorrow, Hastert goes on the record to reply to the washington Post; " I will continue to serve at the pleasure of the president" - Meanwhile Pelosi hasn't gotten those testimony's under oath yet.

[lisainmilo]

78. Wiki-pedia says Roves father is a homosexual or was

Early life and high school
Rove was born in Denver, Colorado and later raised in Nevada, the second of five children. His biological father abandoned the family early on and his mother remarried. His new adoptive father, Louis Claude Rove Jr., was a mineral geologist, and his mother, Reba Wood, was a gift shop manager. His older brother is Eric P. Rove, and his younger sister is Reba A. Rove-Hammond.

The whole story here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Rove#Personal_life_and_early_political_experiences