I think Democrats are making a big tactical mistake by not attacking Foley

[mtnsnake]

as much as the Republicans, who are ripping him to shreds.

Yesterday I heard on TV a high ranking Democrat, I think it was Harry Reid, suggest that Democrats stay away from making this a political issue. IMO, he couldn't be more wrong.

Here's what's going to happen the week before the election if Democrats don't join in on the mudslinging against Foley:

Even though there isn't a single Democrat who approves of what Mark Foley did, Republicans are going to equate the Democrats' "relative" silence as being their blanket approval of such a despicable act. By then it will be too late for our Dems to do anything about it.

Yup, the Democrats silence on everything is KILLING us. Not only should they be attacking Foley, but they should be explaining things to the voters such as the timing of...and the obvious coincidence...between Big Oil dropping energy prices to raise the stock market, which makes everything appear so peachy all of a sudden on the economic home front. They're letting Republicans frame EVERYTHING again, and they're not doing anything about it. Jesus H Christ.

[Justice]

1. Are you kidding me?

Plenty of Democrats have denounced what Foley did (cyber stalking pages and former pages). That is all that needs to be said.

Dem leadership moved on Friday to investigate, asked that Rep leaders be deposed under oath about it.

[mtnsnake]

4. No. Dem might be calling for an investigation, but they're not attacking

Foley himself, like his own sick Repuke brothers and sisters are.

[MrCoffee]

34. That's not even close to "all that needs to be said"

We are rapidly approaching a midterm election that's going to decide whether the Chimperator gets to run rough-shod over the country for another 2 years.

This is a bar fight. In a bar fight, you use whatever is at hand to beat the bloody hell out of your opponent. If you think the pukes will do anything less, you haven't been following the news lately. They have the gall to question what the Democratic minority leadership knew about Foley. At least they're campaigning.

We should wake up and realize who we're fighting here.

[Lasher]

2. "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake."

Napoleon Bonaparte said that.

[OzarkDem]

20. Sorry- bad advice but typical Dem "keep your powder dry" leadership

Dems have been quoting that garbage for years while they lose time and time and time again. Its utter bullshit.

There is no justifiable reason for Dem leaders to sit on the sidelines and say nothing when they should be screaming bloody murder and holding the GOP leadership AND the news media for keeping this scandal covered up and allowing more and more kids to be victimized.

If Dems don't speak out to protect these kids and hold the GOP accountable, they are just as guilty.


When Dems take the majority back in Congress, I will work day and night to make sure any Dem leader who doesn't pull his weight on this scandal is removed from leadership. You can take that to the bank.

I have kids of my own this age and I will not stand by and watch my own party fail to lead again. No way.

[Hosnon]

24. But there are two events here: 1) Foley's conduct and 2) The Republican

Party's response.

1) was definitely a mistake and we should let it run its course. But are we sure that 2) is a mistake? If not, Napoleon's advice doesn't apply.

[Lasher]

31. You are correct, we should be more assertive in regard to the cover up.

During the next 30 days we need to do what we can to prevent this from fading out of public consciousness. I think this is being played about right by Democratic leaders right now. Repukes will try to cool this down with familiar tactics like saying, "I can't comment on that because there is an ongoing investigation." I don't think that's going to work this time, though.

One thing I've noticed about today's Republican leadership, it's that they believe in taking care of fellow Republicans - to a fault. It's clear that justice will not be fully served in this and other cases until we win back control of at least one house of Congress.

Eyes on the prize, my friend.

Napoleon said a lot of things, and I disagree with him on some of them. But he was never much of a guy to just sit on his hands.

[sendero]

3. Reid..

... is a continual dissapointment. His judgement is flawed and his actions are not those of a dog on the prowl but a dog on the porch, old, tired, listless.

The possible reasons for NOT fighting on this are not happy to contemplate.

[purji]

5. I disagree

I think the Democrats should focus on the cover-up. Who knew and when did they know it.
If we just concentrate on Foley,then when he comes out of re-hab, he will just apologize
and talk about finding God or something,and all will be forgiven.
The cover up is bigger than one man,Its republican Leadership that we should be attacking.
There are too many people involved in the cover up,to easily be brushed under the rug.

[mtnsnake]

6. I'm not saying we should JUST concentrate on Foley. Geez.

Come election day, I'm saying the repukes are going to use our relative silence on blasting Foley to equate that silence with approval of what Foley did. You can take that to the bank.

[papau]

10. I agree with you - the cover-up by dozens over 10 years is the story

that needs to be pushed.

Foley is to be condemned and has been by every Dem -

It is the GOP that are trying to limit the attacks to Foley - I wonder why :-)

[blondeatlast]

26. "Focus on the cover-up." Exactly--that's what we did in Watergate.

Let's see, the results of that were:

President resigned, and many of his closest advisors were CONVICTED and actaully went to a real (albeit country-club-like) prison.

The Dems are playing this one quite wisely, IMHO.

[AX10]

27. Good point. It is usually the cover-up takes them down.

[ProSense]

7. Sen. Reid

called for an investigation:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2276815&mesg_id=2276815

Sen. Kerry has spoken out:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2860580&mesg_id=2860580

Rep. Pelosi:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2276212

[mtnsnake]

8. For crying out loud, that's not what I'm talking about

I'm well aware that Democrats, not just Kerry and the others you mentioned, are calling for an investigation, which they well should be doing.

I'm saying that Democrats are the ONLY ones not ripping Foley to shreds like his fellow repukes are doing. THAT is what's going to come back and bite us in the ass the week before the election.

[papau]

11. ripping Foley to shreds versus ripping GOP cover up to shreds - we do not

do both and we lose election?

Don't think so.

It is the cover up that is gaining traction with the public.

Kicking Foley is expected and done - going into an only Foley dump 24/7 as the GOP are is a tactic to stop review of the cover-up.

The Dems are smart to not play along.

[ProSense]

12. For crying out loud this is not an issue! You said Reid said, then you

said Democrats "relative silence..."

Democratic leaders let candidates, outside groups take lead on Foley
http://www.theeagle.com/stories/100506/politics_20061005075.php

Iowa Democrats attack, say GOP is evading scandal
http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061005/NEWS09/610050384/1056

Democrats hop on Foley scandal
Across the nation, their campaigns are attacking Republican incumbents with any ties to House leaders who are under fire.
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/10/04/Worldandnation/Democrats_hop_on_Fole.shtml


They are appropriately focusing on the scandal and the cover-up.

[mtnsnake]

14. Relative silence on attacking Foley HIMSELF

I think Reid is wrong in saying we shouldn't make what Foley did a political issue.

I am NOT saying there's anything wrong with making a coverup an issue either. That's just as important, but that's not the point in my OP.

[onenote]

28. the repubs talking point is that this is politically motivated

The Dems are playing it exactly right. Condemn the behavior, call for an investigation. Shut up and enjoy the spectacle.

[karynnj]

36. Look at each statement

They say what the Republican leadership is covering up and they speak of protecting the children. The outrage and the disgust at the people who covered up IS a reflection of the disgust at what Foley was able to do.

[karynnj]

35. The first sentence in one of the Kerry articles on her link is:

"Massachusetts Sen. John Kerry denounced former Rep. Mark Foley during an appearance in Ames today, shaming him for his explicit communications with a teenage congressional page that emerged last week."

That sounds pretty clear. The difference between the Republicans and the Democrats is that the Republicans are ONLY denouncing Foley. What Kerry and other Democrats are doing is denouncing Foley AND calling out the leadersip that knew it happened and did nothing. They are also culpable.

[Doremus]

9. Tell it to the Dem consultant making the rounds of the news shows.

Didn't catch his name either time I halfway listened to him (last night on Larry King and this morning on the Today Show).

"Dems have to be careful they don't jump on this too hard. They need to stand back and watch the facts unfold."

A scolding attempt to "prove" his impartiality. Straight DLC old school "go along to get along" mentality.


It was to barf.

[papau]

13. "don't jump on this too hard" is stupid advice - is this consultant a Dem?

This MUST be jumped on - only I see the cover-up that tars the whole GOP party as the issue for this election, not repeated dumps on Foley. I doubt there can be overkill on Foley, but that still should not be where the party's message is focused - IMHO.

FOUCUS ON THE GOP AS THE PARTY OF CORRUPTION AND COVER UP.

please....

:-)

[Doremus]

18. Yes, he's a Dem. A former something-or-other with the Clinton admin.

Now runs his own consultant business.

"Dems are trying to make political hay from this. It could backfire."


Typical DLC worry bead stuff.

[OzarkDem]

17. Bad advice

They will look weak for not holding the GOP accountable for covering this up and allowing more kids to be victimized.

[ShortnFiery]

15. The Republicans are Spinning it the Other Way - Saying that the Leaders

are Going Nuts.

Not true. Our leaders, IMO, are handling it correct. Damn if I hear of 1983, and Studds once again. Foley is A PREDATOR - That's a big difference between having MUTUAL and exclusive relationship with a minor. Still statutory rape in some states but Studds was NOT a Sexual Predator.

Many of the Pages that Foley sent IMs thought they were SICK! In fact along with the initial emails that were sent to CREW, FBI and the House Leaders were the parents desire that Foley not ever contact their son again. Plus the son used the world *sick* thirteen times to describe these so called "overly-friendly" emails.

Finally, these republican a**holes are playing on their base who is misogynist, BIG TIME. Bringing up Nancy Pelosi's name and snickering is their code that A WOMAN is not strong enough to lead the country. Pelosi has been much more measured and NOT acting liberal. I think she needs to be stronger, but IF we had a decent opponent in The Republican Party, she could be an excellent negotiator.

The Right Wing Republicans and the PIGS that they have elected are VOMIT! :puke:

On Edit: Case in point - the koolaid drinking Republican Strategist on CSPAN just now said that we are *emasculating* the country. :eyes: <wink wink nudge nude> We don't want no "Nancy Girl" from San Francisco running the congress ----> Misogyny!

Let's clean house of The Republican Slime? :thumbsup:

[BootinUp]

16. Get the facts first, then goinfer the keel. n/t

[Evergreen Emerald]

19. so you want to turn this horrific issue of child luring into a political

..issue? That is the spin and it will hurt the democrats: There is a serious issue where children may have been sexually harassed, and the democrats are trying to use it politically?

They are doing exactly the right thing. They called for an investigation, and they are awaiting the investigation. Let the republicans use it/cover it/ denounce it/minimize it for political gain.

[mtnsnake]

21. I want Dems to bash Foley, as well as call for an investigation. Geesh

Calling for an investigation is a no-brainer, but not attacking Foley, personally, as the Repbulicans are doing, could end up being perceived by all the ignoramous voters out there that Democrats don't really care about what Foley did on a personal level but only care about a Republican coverup. Like I already said in my OP, come election day the repukes will have it that THEY were the only ones who slammed Foley the man. They'll have TV commercials the week before the election showing Republicans making durogatory remarks toward Foley. Then they'll say, "and what did Democrats say about Foley?"

All of us here are too smart not to realize that the coverup is a most vital issue, but the perception that Repubs will have is that Democrats didn't care enough to slander Foley himself.

[ProSense]

23. What the Repubs are doing

is trying to distract from the cover-up! The Democrats don't need to make this a personal attack on Foley. Everyone understands that he is a sexual predator!

[mtnsnake]

25. I'm just looking ahead, Prosense, to the week before election day

I can see the commercials now, saying how Republicans were the ones to denounce what Foley did, and then saying, "What did Democrats say about him?" and switching to silence....or something to that effect. Wait and see.

[onenote]

29. the Democrats have not been silent

What are you talking about:

Reid issued a statement calling Foley's action's repugnant and despicable. http://reid.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=264239&&year=2006&

Pelosi issued a statement characterizing Foley's behavior as abhorrent.http://www.house.gov/pelosi/press/releases/Oct06/Rep_Mark_Foley.html

I don't think there's any risk of Democrats being labelled "soft" on Foley. None.

[mtnsnake]

30. If you're impressed by their press releases, then you're easily impressed

For one thing, your link to Reid's statement didn't work. For another, Pelosi's statement only implied that his actions were abhorrent. She in no way said anything directly blasting Foley in the same sentence or even the same paragraph.

Whatever Reid's "statement" was that he "issued", it's absolutely nothing like what he said on TV yesterday, where he advised all Democrats to lay off Foley's affair.

Besides, these so-called statements that Democrats issue all the time are a far cry from them saying the same things on TV. They really are wimps when it comes to that.

[OzarkDem]

22. Absolutely yes

They should be screaming their heads off about how these crimes were covered up and allowed to continue. Any Dem who doesn't want to hold these people accountable and do all they can to make it hapen should resign today.

[The Magistrate]

I Tend To Agree, Sir

Democratic leaders and candidates should be energetically pressing the "corrupt cover-up" line, and in ways that make obvious reference to the hypocrisy of the Republican stand on homosexuality it reveals.

[Claire Beth]

32. nope...the dem's need to keep out of this...

for right now anyway. Let the republicans purge their own.

[beaconess]

33. Much better to focus on the cover up and not on Foley

The cover up is a much stronger story that goes to the corruption and overall unfitness of the Republican Congress. Foley is one badly behaving individual who most people never even heard of until last week. Beside being a loyal Republican, he is not closely identified with leadership or the Republican Congress and thus, piling on him won't have much more impact beyond beating up on a guy who is being more than sufficiently trashed, humiliated and ruined.

Moreover, focusing on Foley causes another problem - every time Democrats try to make a big deal of Foley himself, it's all too easy to throw Gerry Studds into the argument and raise the question why Democrats "went easy" on him 20-some years ago. Whether it's true or not isn't the issue - just trying to explain how the two situations differ wastes too much time and energy and distracts attention from the issue at hand.

Dems are playing this just right by using Foley as a mere example of the outright corruption and hypocrisy of the Republican Congess. Foley's gone, never to return. It's time to make that happen to the rest of them.