Why the Dem's don't just relabel the Estate Tax as

[WCGreen]

The Paris Hilton Full Protection Act is beyond me....

I mean, they framed this thing as a death tax as if some ghoulish IRS agent is hanging around the graveyard, behind the tree, ready to pounce on widows and orphans to collect the two pennies put on a dead man's eye...

Dem's have to make it as personal as they did...

If not Paris Hilton, then someone else...

Maybe even the Bush Twins...

Whatever, they should just personalize it...

[Another Bill C.]

1. How about "Dynasty tax"? n/t

n/t

[WCGreen]

2. That's good but to keep calling it the Estate Tax is not working...

[Brundle_Fly]

13. Trump Tax?

[seasat]

17. That's what I've always called it.

It's succinct and conveys the point about it benefiting only the wealthy.

[shadow 99]

3. Maybe because over 1 million American households are millionaires and

Maybe because over 1 million American households are millionaires and that is without counting the equity in their primary home in their net worth. That is why there is little discussion of it.

[AllegroRondo]

7. The exemption is for the first $10 million

if you are left anything less than that, you pay no taxes at all.
And there are further exemptions for family farms, including the option to pay any taxes due over a 10 years period.

[shadow 99]

14. Yup; and those 1 million millionaire households dream of having 10 million

Yup; and those 1 million millionaire households dream of having 10 million or more some day and don't want it taken from them.

[Solon]

25. Why should we be concerned with about 1% of the population?

This is what I don't get, you say a million as if it were a lot, out of 300 million, they take up about 1/3 of a percentage point in this country, or, if its they are ALL 3 to 4 person housolds, about 1%. I don't care about them.

[Warpy]

16. The exemption is $2million this year

It's rising slowly, year by year.

[terryg11]

4. agreed

point to all the super rich heirs running around making jackasses of themselves and maybe this debate starts to turn a bit

[terryg11]

5. Darwin's economic tax

Raise the tax rate even more

If you really can't figure out ways to pass your estate on to your family without paying the tax that seems kind of ridiculous.

Loopholes and alternatives exist. USe them if you dont want to get taxed after uyou die

[Warpy]

6. I just recently finished Form 706

and can understand why people want to do away with the sucker. My time was evenly divided between chasing paper and trying to figure out the Byzantine verbiage. It is NOT a taxpayer friendly form, and even the IRS suggests hiring someone to who understands their Newspeak to do it for you. I'm just stubborn, and refused to pay hundreds of dollars to plug in numbers after *I* had assembled all the damn paperwork.

And no, I didn't owe any tax.

[WCGreen]

10. There is away to eliminate the Estate Tax and still tax the

passed down wealth...

Get rid of the bumped up basis....

Or, allow the heirs to pay the tax on the diference between what the asset cost when it was purchased and the Fair Market Value as of the time of death...

They could keep the asset but pay the long term capital gains tax or just have the orginal basis of the asset pass on through...

That way people who just be paying tax one time...

When the asset is sold or transfered....

[Warpy]

11. That would make it even harder

because in my Pop's case, I'd have had to trace records of sale from 1974 for his house, and records all the way back to the 40s for some of his investments.

Screw that, it was hard enough chasing all the "value at time of death" paper.

The best idea is for the IRS to throw out that stupid form and write one in plain English. "Sale or appraised value of real estate, minus fees at sale" and "attach list of securities here" and "cash bank balance at time of death" and "sale of furniture." That would make sense and ordinary people would know what to write where.

You have no idea how totally FUBAR that form is until you sit down to do it.

[SheilaT]

12. How much is your time worth?

Our income taxes are complicated enough, and I can't imagine being able to do those on my own. I shudder to think what the paperwork on an estate that may or may not be taxable is like.

[Warpy]

15. Right now my time isn't worth much to anyone but myself

and poor eyesight after a corneal transplant means what I can do is very restricted.

So I did it myself. Other people may choose to pay hundreds of dollars.

However, that is not the point. The point is that an overly complicated form written in bizarre language is causing everyone who has confronted it to resent the estate tax, whether or not they had any tax due.

[SheilaT]

24. Overly complicated

doesn't begin to describe it. Anything beyond the short form (I think it's called 1040EZ these days) is overly complicated. And you don't have to be rich, you don't have to have serious investments, you only need to be someone who has a deduction or so that throws you off the EZ form.

Personally, I think anything to simplify taxes would be good. One problem is that almost everyone out there benefits from some kind of deduction that would disappear if taxes were simplified. And I'm not even talking about the huge benefits to major corporations or the extremely wealthy.

The best way to get good language in the tax code would be to require all members of Congress, every year, to do their own taxes. About April 1st, round them all up, put them in a room, go ahead give them food, water, potty breaks. But the only professional help they can use is the same call-in line to the IRS that everyone else has access to. No H&R Block, no CPAs, no tax attorneys to help out. Just each other. I bet we'd have a simplified tax system by April 16th that year.

[kath]

26. The regular 1040 form is really NOT that complex. A little reading

comprehension, plus possibly the assistance of a book like "Taxes for Dummies" or something should be all most people need. It seems a shame that the tax preparers make SO much money for what is a pretty basic task for the typical taxpayer.

Agree with Warpy - most of the work is in gathering up the paperwork (and for the typical taxpayer (Re the 1040, *not* the estate tax) this isn't actually that much - form from your mortgage holder as to how much interest and property tax you paid, records of charitable contributions, record of last year's state income tax refund if you got one, interest statement from bank if you earned any, record of automobile taxes if you live in a state where they're taxed according to value, etc) and I'll also be damned if I'm going to pay someone hundreds of dollars just to plug in the numbers. The math is basic addition and subtraction, with the rare multiplication.

(try doing it yourself next year, with the aid of a basic book or perhaps software. You may be pleasantly surprised)

[WCGreen]

18. I'm an accoutant soi I know how bad the forms are...

But if you eliminate the Tax and just pay taxes when you sell the asset, then that is easier and you won't have to pay taxes when a relative passes, only when you divest yourself from that asset..

So you would be able to search until you discover...

Also, that way, people might keep better records...

I am sorry about your situation, but I am looking at the best way to tax and be fair about it....

[Warpy]

20. My pop never threw anything away

but much of it was a total jumble. He had a large bedruoom he'd turned into his office absolutely packed with paper. I have never seen so much paper before in my life, and I sincerely hope I never see it again.

The problem was that there was no system to any of it. I think that's typical.

Trying to find what he'd paid for his stock in the 1940s would have been an impossible task in the time I had in Florida after his death and shipping more than 2 large cartons stuffed with paper was impractical, to say the least. I could have filled a large moving van. I did fill a 30 yard dumpster.

Assessing value at time of transfer is the best way to determine what taxes are owed, because statements are given at least monthly detailing just that.

Yes, people probably should keep better records, like people should stop smoking and eating junk food and take regular exercise, but it's just not going to happen no matter how many accountants clap their hands as they make a wish.

The form needs to be redesigned. That is the point. Alternative schemes would just put undue burden on heirs and create even more resentment of an inheritance tax on vast fortunes, which is silly.

[WCGreen]

21. But if you just let people pass on stuff tax free....

That means the income gained from appreciation will never be taxed until that asset is sold...

I'm sorry, but just because someone owns something and makes money from it doesn't mean that they should have their income treated any differently from some poor sap who has to work for wages or salary....

The only way an open economic system can work for all is if all are treated the same...

A buck is a buck no matter how you earn it...

[theothersnippywshrub]

22. That already is a part of the republican repeal of the estate tax.

The law repealing the estate tax also repeals the stepped-up basis provision and requires that heirs use a carry over basis starting in 2011. http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/news/20060724a1.asp

This is a significant tax increase for millions of people who will inherit and sell appreciated property in 2011 and thereafter. It screws the middle class the most since those are the people who are likely to inherit property with a very low cost basis to the deceased but now worth between a few hundred thousand to a few million dollars. Under current law there is no estate tax due on such inheritances and no capital gain tax due on the sale of such property by the heirs. That changes under the republican plan since there will be capital gain taxes owed upon the sale of any such property. Of course the vey wealthy also lose this tax benefit, but it affects them much less since a substantial portion of their wealth is in bonds, which they will hold to maturity, or stock of a family business, which they will never sell.

By the way, anyone who refers to the "death tax" is either incredibly ignorant or an unabashed liar. There is no such thing as a "death tax."

[Schema Thing]

8. Good idea. Also, pump up the volume on Gates and Buffet, who want

to keep the tax, decent Americans and humans that they are. They realize that they got their wealth because they live in a country that gives them tools to build wealth, and that on death, they should give back. They realize that even with estate tax, their own children already have a huge head start and more than enough tools to build/create their own wealth, if they so choose.

I suspect the problem is that there are plenty of very rich dems who don't quite have their mind right about this any more than the republicans do. "We the people" will have to take the lead on this.

[LiberalFighter]

9. Paris Hilton needs bigger eyecatchers?

[Senator]

19. I use "Tax Cuts for Dead Billionaires"

That's what they consider more important than social security, healthcare, or children in poverty.

Or you can substitute any issue. For a wingnut you could use illegal immigrants, body armor for troops, or the debt/deficit.

--

[Dr Fate]

23. They need to do that for everything and stop using GOP/media frames.

You are correct.