Diebold question.. because something is bugging me....

[snowbear]

First of all.. in Ohio and Alaska, we know for a fact that the manipulation of Diebold machines was a big factor in the ultimate outcome.

In Florida, we pretty much assume that Diebold rigging took place -- although I'm not sure if there was as much hardcore evidence as there was in Ohio and Alaska -- -- or at least, I haven't seen lawsuits from either?

Ok.. Here's the deal...

It's the individual State's Division of Elections personnel that are responsible for tallying the ballot boxes, machines, and scanners in each state.

---> The three most suspected states in '04 were all run by Republicans - (Ohio, Alaska, Florida)

I keep reading on here comments from people from places like Virginia, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and others that say "Don't worry, Diebold will ensure the Rethugs win!"

= BUT WAIT =

How are the State Division of Elections in states run by DEMOCRATS going to ever allow such a thing to happen in statewide races? States like:

New Jersey
Montana
Pennsylvania
Illinois
Virginia
West Virginia
Wisconsin
Wyoming
Tennessee
Arizona
New Mexico
Delaware
New Hampshire
North Carolina
Oklahoma
Oregon
Michigan
Iowa
Kansas
Louisiana
Maine

I've seen from the lawsuit going on in Alaska, that to screw with Diebold.. it takes someone directly involved with that administration in the elections division to do the dirty deed.

The guilty person where I live is the State Lt. Governor, Loren Leman, who is getting the Hell outta Dodge after our November election instead of trying to run again.

From everything I've ever heard, it takes some sort of "inside cooperation" to be in kahoots with an "outside cooperation" to do the rigging.

QUESTION: Why do so many people here say that places such as Virginia, Tennessee or Pennsylvania will "Deibold" their elections, when they are all run by Democratic Division of Elections personnel?

[Syrinx]

1. simple

The machines are programmed by the manufacturer. And the code is proprietary. Which is outrageous on its face.

[snowbear]

3. According to the lawyers here... it takes an insider

They can't just program the machines in Phoenix from Buffalo..

We're in the middle of a HEATED lawsuit here .. and we've learned how much the actual Division of Elections had to do in order to screw the tally.

So you're saying they can do it long distance?

How? ... They would need cooperation from the Division of Elections to know how many precincts, voters, all sorts of info..

[Syrinx]

6. I don't know exactly how it works (or even if it does, for sure)

But lots of tricky things can be done with computer code. And don't forgot wireless networks!

[snowbear]

9. I understand what you're saying... but you still need an insider

..according to lawyers here, as well as the Univesity of Princeton personnel and Blackbox Voting.

They need precinct information... they need population numbers.... they need voter turnout info... all sorts of items that the State Division of Elections in each state compiles.

It's the very reason the Alaska Lt. Governor, in charge of elections, is resigning in SHAME!

He turned the files over the Friday before he would have had to show up in front of a JURY on Monday!!!

This dirtbag ---->

He is also refusing to answer the question as to why his office went into the Diebold files 292 times to make changes.

He is SOOOOOOOOOO up the creek!

I'm just glad the lawyers and the Democratic Party here are getting to the bottom of this situation!

[Syrinx]

11. most, probably all, of the info you're talking about is public

From the state's SoS office, the census bureau, and media sites.

[snowbear]

12. Well.. I still feel more comfortable at least with the DEM run states..

No matter what..

Thanks for the info ~~

[Syrinx]

13. Like you, I always feel better with Democrats in charge

But it's this collusion between government and the corporate world that is especially troubling. "Some" would call it fascism. ;)

I don't know for a fact that the elections are rigged, but if we don't capture at least one house next month, all my doubts will be erased. On the other hand, if we win big in both, I'll still be unsure.

[snowbear]

14. Hmmm.. is that like the old proverb...

"A man with one watch knows the time... a man with two is never really sure" ..?

[Syrinx]

15. kind of, I guess

I'm going to have to take some time to wrap my brain around it, though.

[snowbear]

16. No please... don't...

I'm too sleepy to be responsible for whatever I said in the last two or three responses!

~~~ I should be doing this pretty soon:

[Syrinx]

18. sweet dreams!

Cute kitty.

[Blue_In_AK]

17. I want to see Loren Leman in an orange jumpsuit

I think he'd look quite fetching in one. This election issue here has sure taken an interesting turn.

[Kermitt Gribble]

4. .......

as are the results are proprietary, when a recount is concerned, right? They wil get you either way.

[snowbear]

7. The results are proprietary, but NOT to those in charge of that state!

In a typical election (anywhere in the nation) it is normal for approximately 15 to 20 "manual entries" be made to the data base.

That means, the elections personnel can re-feed a crumpled ballot, etc..

In Alaska --->> the REPUBLICAN DIVISION OF ELECTIONS (not Diebold) -- Loren Leman and his staff ---- went in TWO HUNDRED AND NINETY THREE TIMES to make changes!!

...."the Democratic party's review showed 293 manual entries were made to the file in 2004 between Nov. 2 and Dec. 2. Manual entries are typically made when ballots are damaged and can't be scanned."

More > http://ap.juneauempire.com/pstories/state/ak/20061005/105846336.shtml

[evlbstrd]

2. HAVA privatized our elections.

Now we let the Free Market decide.

[snowbear]

5. I agree that privatizing our elections is pure INSANITY...

But I'm also confident that when Democrats take over --- that will be high on the agenda.

Or at least I hope it will --

[evlbstrd]

8. Only if they break with the DLC,

and from the corporate money. All private money must be eliminated from politics.

[snowbear]

10. Welp....

When we take over....

It will be the re-THUGS screaming to get rid of the Diebolds!!

[EST]

19. Not all democrats are angels.

Although the democratic party is the party that values truth, empathy, kindness and peace, it is inevitable that there should be mean, vicious, basty nastards who have assumed the mantle and the banner of the party but not the spirit.

We have our own satans who are not really democrats but berserkers in disguise. After all, there is ample evidence of trolls who have created their own "insurgency" cells right here on DU and have accumulated thousands of posts, pretending to be something they are not. Sometimes it's just a thrilling little game and sometimes it's a hack job they love.

Confidence men defraud billions of dollars from honest people every year.

example two-
Witness New Mexico-many leading dem pols simply don't believe massive election fraud is happening and will continue to defend their positions because to admit the opposite would mean they were wrong - in a big way - and few politicians will accept that.

And example three-
There are many dems in high position who are just as in bed with corporate fascism as any pooplicon and as indebted to election fraud as bush is. They depend on diebold too.

[BeFree]

20. Diebold

The appelation is a catch all term for the electronic devices... there are three big players here - Diebold, ES&S, Sequoia. Among the three it is estimated that 80% of the votes will be counted by these big three.

Now, given that these three are in control of the vote counting by virtue of being financed by Tom Delay's HAVA act - to the tune of some $3 billion federal dollars, and the state people have relinquished their control to the big three, the three can do pretty much as they please.

The three write the software, totally control the code (ask your local people who programs the machines) and put together the machines without much local input, design or oversight.

Only Gawd, and employees of the three, know where the program code is written. Only Gawd, and employees of the three, know how it is programmed to count the votes. All the rest of us are blind, including your local officials.

What I am getting at is that the three have total control, and while some local officials can add to the base output of the machines, the base output is owned by the big three: Diebold, ES&S, and Sequoia.

[JunkYardDogg]

21. The machines are controlled at the county level

The county Registrars of Voters (RoV) buys the equipment.
There is a massive incestuous relationship between the venders and the RoV's.
RoV's don't know shit about the equipment and don't want to/
RoV's do not want to discovers problems
The manipulation can be built in programming which can alter the vote counts a mere 2% which is usually all that is needed.
NONE of the election day software, throughout America is completely analyzed when it is installed for election day use.
It is not presently known if systems used thru out the US have modems and wireless and/or wired connectivity installed
WHY?
Because Federal Standards do not exist for modem and internet connectivity issues
SO?
Because these and many other items are not addressed by Federal Standards, the ITAs (Independent Testing Agencies) there are 3, one tests hardware, 0ne tests software, the 3rd gets no business, and at no point in the Federal qualification procedure is the entire system checked as a functioning whole, nor are mock elections ever conducted at the Federal qualification level,so none of these vulnerability issues arise for testing.
In Auto Racing, when you present a car for qualifing, the car undergoes tech inspection to inspect for tech/rules compliance (i.e. cheating)
and after a race, the cars are again inspected.
No such race day (election day) inspections exist in America for voting euipment.
In Ohio, the machines were actually accessed by unknown persons, under the name of Triad Services at the end of election day.

[BeFree]

22. Good points.

We are headed for a Train Wreck come November. Again.

What can folks do? Find out all you can about how your vote is counted and let the government people know what you found out. The vote you save may be your own.