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I'm one of those people you hate.
First off, where do you find 'hate' in my post?
You say you want to ask a question, but... I've been on DU just long enough to know that when there's a "question" with that much venom behind it, it isn't really so much a question as wanting to shoot fish in a barrel or something.
As with my first question to you .... now you're calling it venom. Again i ask, where do you find venom in my post?
However, there was a very good post today, asking folks to learn something from the AMish, and deal with each other in peace and goodwill and forgiveness, so I'm going to give that a try. Can we work for some understanding here, instead of just lobbing more hand grenades? I will hope so. That's *my* intention, anyway.
That's good to know. I'll try to respond in kind, even after you suggested I was a venomous hater.
So, it sounds like you're wanting to be upbeat about the polls, and the results of breaking news. It sounds like you're wanting very badly for this to be the big turning point, finally, and you are feeling like there are some of us who are raining on your parade. Is this right so far?
Actually .... no. That's not what I'm wanting. What I'm wanting is some positivity in the face of increasing signs that things are going our way. And in any other time but the Bush years, that's exactly what would be happening. But you and I both know that we can't trust that things will go fairly. That's the reality. But even in the face of that reality, we have to work hard to get out the vote on our side. It is very late in the game. Nothing systemic is going to be fixed at this point. All we have is getting out the vote, working for the candidates, and donating as we're able. My specific point was made to those who come into a thread citing positive news and tamp down any good feelings with one line drive by posts such as "Who counts the votes, dude?" And it is my contention that that sort of post, with no context and no explanation, is simply thread pissing. There's no information in such posts. There's only doom and gloom. If they feel strongly about that issue (and many of us - yes I include myself - do), then start a damned post about it! But for anyone NOT here a long time and who may NOT know the full context, it can very easily have the effect of causing the reader to question why he should bother to vote. That's not good and it is the very kernal at the heart of the sentiment in the OP.
If so, let me assure you that I fully understand what you're feeling, and share at least some of it, myself. However, so you can understand me, I'll let you know that I've been through this same roller-coaster so many times that I just can't afford to keep getting my hopes up so far, only to have them dashed to smitherenes. I'm firmly in the "wait and see" camp, and that's how it has to be for me, to maintain what little is left of my sanity. If the way for you to maintain is to let your hopes soar, then so be it. That's fine for you, just as my approach is fine for me, and others.
I actually live in Realityville. You'll notice, if you can get past the obviously skewed impression you have of the OP, that no where did it say that everything is hunky dory, neato-keen on the vote counting front. No where. Wasn't even mentioned. You simply infered that and then projected a different agenda. And you were wrong to have done so and wrong to have gone off at me as you did, with calling me a hater and such.
The reality is that we KNOW the other elections have been stolen, and we KNOW we were told there were protections "in place", and we KNOW very precious little has been done since 2004. We KNOW that every election the RW has STOLEN the election, and we KNOW they have gotten more sophisticated with each one.
You're not telling me anything I don't already know. Nor are you addressing anything in the OP. In view of that, I'll let this slide. This wasn't a thread about the specific issues around vote counting. If you wish to discuss that, perhaps a thread of your own creation might be a better venue. All such talk does here is muck up the point of **this** thread.
Therefore, it would be hard to imagine that they don't have even more smooth plans afoot for this one, and we'd really like to know what the Dems are doing about it. Really, that's not so unreasonable, is it? If it's not what you want to know, that's OK--we don't have to see everything the same way. But, I ask you to remember that some very well respected people (including RFK,Jr) are warning us strongly about this. Is he on your shit list, too?
I, too think they have plans afoot. And I, too, would like to know what the dems intend to do about it. In fact, I asked that **very** question many months ago in another thread and was promptly flamed for asking. Go figure. And why would RFK,Jr be on *my* shit list?? Just asking that question is pretty presumptuous and inflamatory on your part, don't you think?
This isn't a personal thing. We're not out to destroy you or your mental stability. We're looking at both sides -- the hope and the fear-- and that's OK for us to do, also. Maybe you could grant us the right to voice our fears, and maybe you could show some understanding by suggesting some really practical things we could all do to in the little remaining time to help the voting process be cleaner. Really, we *are* on the same side here!
Don't say it isn't personal. You made it personal. Lets' at least be honest here. You made it very personal. You called me a hater. I'd say that was personal. Wouldn't you? I do, however, take some comfort in the fact that you're not out to destroy me. Actually, you said 'we'. So I assume you're possee's there with you, right?
As far as the right to voice your fears, of course you have that right. I should think we all have that right. As a matter of fact, voicing a fear - in a fashion - is exactly what the OP was about. My fear is that with enough doom and gloom being spread around, someone might just decide to stay home on the 7th and, as suggested, obviously rhetorically, in the OP, curl up in a fetal position and suck their toes. You don't want that, do you? I know for sure I don't.
As for practical things we could all do in the remaining time, maybe *you* could suggest some things. You clearly have lots to say. I'm sure you have good ideas. For my part, my short term 30 day plan is to get people charged up to go vote a straight Democratic ticket, to do what I can for my candidates, and to write whatever checks I am able for a few favored candidates around the country. As to your question about making the voting process cleaner, I have no idea what I can do. Make a few posts here? Would that help? Beyond that, my time is spoken for until the 8th. What are you doing?
Now, I'll go you one step further. *MY* personal discouragement and pain is the lack of concern for poor folk, demonstrated both in the party in general, and here on DU. Any post here on poverty issues sinks like a stone, for the most part. Any plea for writing and calling on a poverty issue is met with crickets. I have so much as been told, right here on DU that poor folk are not only a liability to the party (?!), but that they/we are all freepers. Can you imagine how that feels? Can you understand the pain I feel at that? I was so much as told at my state Dem headquarters, when I was picking up more literature and signs to distribute and put up, that poor folk just weren't of value to the party. Yes, that was said to me blatantly!
I and others have posted here many times that if the Dems really want to GOTV, and swell the numbers to the point where it wouldn't be hackable, then it's important to appeal to poor folk, and get 'em to the polls, and make sure they are actually able to vote!! (It wasn't the muddleclass and rich voters who waited in lines for 7, 9 and even 11 hours to vote last election!!)
That sounds like issues you have with other people, not me. I don't lknow why it is in my thread, whiich is on a whole other topic (except the snippet about the GOTV thing). I suggest you take this up with the people with whom you have issues. There are plenty of my threads that have sunk, too. What can I say? Write better threads. Send me a PM so I can go give them a kick. Whatever.
So, can we come together on this? Can we now put all this rage aside, and understand that we don't all see it the same way, and still work together? I'm very willing to do that, are you?
There ya go with that rage thing again.
And, if you'll take more interest in poverty issues, and start reaching out to more of us poor folk and understand our discouragement with the party, then I'll certainly be behind you in your issues.
This last paragraph of yours got to me. How dare you? How DARE you imply that I don't care about issues of poverty? You don't know me. You don't know one damn thing about me. HOW DARE YOU imply something about me and my views toward poverty in a thread that had NOTHING to do with poverty except that you interjected the issue into your reply and then threw a challenge at me. That wins you no points with me.
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