WaPost: "WH 'inexplicably upbeat' about GOP prospects" (the fix is in)

[Ninja Jordan]

Diebold


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/14/AR2006101401051_pf.html

[journalist3072]

1. "...technology and other assest as their command."

That's the key phrase that jumped out at me like a laser beam.

I'm blogging about it tonight: http://progressiveminds.bloghi.com/2006/10/14/are-bush-and-rove-planning-to-steal-the-2006-mid-term-elections.html

[bluestateguy]

2. Please. I don't want to hear anymore Diebold conspiracy theories

If Bush is optimistic it's because he's delusional and does not read the newspapers, by his own admission. He lives in a bubble and still thinks it's 2001, and he's a "popular wartime president". Rove is just spinning.

Too many people here are too quick to trot out unsubstantiated nonsense Diebold conspiracy theories every time a Republican wins an election. And when asked to provide evidence we are told that the evidence is that there is no evidence because it's all been covered up.

Please.

[Bill McBlueState]

5. yeah, I wish we could ignore certain phrases

instead of particular posters.

I think "Diebold" is an excuse lazy people use to feel better about not actually working on getting Dems elected. Why try when it's all a big scam anyway?

[Ninja Jordan]

6. You have to admit that it is odd.

[The Magistrate]

20. So Your Advice, Sir, Is That People Give Up And Not Bother To Vote?

It is difficult to see any other meaning to such comments.

[Ninja Jordan]

21. I'm not in the mode of giving advice

Reading that WaPo article made me think of the Diebold issue.

[The Magistrate]

22. Why On Earth Would It Do That, Sir?

What is the point of trying to convince people three weeks before the election that it does not matter what they do, the fix is in?

[Ninja Jordan]

23. Why would an 'inexplicably upbeat' Bush make me think of voter fraud?

Have you paid attention to the political scene the last 6 years at all? Im pretty sure my little post on this message board will neither disuade nor dishearten the independent-minded readers of this forum. Shoo!

[The Magistrate]

25. Telling Me To "Shoo", Sir, Is Not Much Of An Argument

Nor much of an explaination, nor much of an answer to the question. That last item is still awaited with some curiousity....

[Ninja Jordan]

27. You really want to continue this exchange?

Alrighty, in the face of Foleygate, 655,000 deaths in Iraq, NK blasting nukes, Ney's conviction, the Kolbe alegations, Maccacc-gate, and an energized Democratic base, KARL ROVE and George Bush are inexplicably upbeat about their prospects in novemeber. Now, Im not saying Bush should put on a defeatist front, but get real. Why is Karl Rove so giddy? Either 1) they are just putting on a false front, or 2) they know something we don't. Absent such knowledge, I can only point to the past as evidence of the Bush/Rove modus operandi, and that makes me think of DIEBOLD. It really isn't hard to understand.

[The Magistrate]

28. My Supply Of Both Coffee And Cigarettes, Sir, Is Quite Adequate

It the job of the leadership to put on a good face, and never more so than when the situation is clearly one in which disaster looms. There is no need whatever to put more onto the report than that. Further, you still have not engaged what good purpose might be served by these invocations of the demon Diebold: they amount, as a practical matter, to nothing more or less than declarations there is no point to voting, since it is going to be stolen no matter what....

[Ninja Jordan]

29. OK

my head hurts

[The Magistrate]

30. That Is Still Not An Answer, Sir

The question of what good you feel is served by essentially claiming it does not matter whether people vote or not remains something you have not deigned to engage.

"I will fight it out on this line if it takes all summer long."

[Ninja Jordan]

34. Speaking my mind = good

This isn't a place for that, apparently. My post, contrary to your belief, wasn't part of a nefarious intention to dissuade voters from voting. Merely, it expressed an observation on my part about the nature of Karl Rove and this administration.


P.S. your grammar is painful to read.


goodnight

[The Magistrate]

35. My Query, Sir, Has Nothing To Do With My Beliefs

What piques my curiousity is what you think the point to invoking this "Demon Diebold" line a few weeks before the election is.

[habitual]

43. the way i see it

it is an emotional reaction and someone voicing their concerns.

Then you come along and attack relentlessly, seemingly wanting to stop this person from expressing their views. Or, at the very least, trying to make this person feel that if they do express their view, and it's not according to the way you see the world working, then they will have to answer to you. You'll probably do the same to me now. But i believe i have the right to say what i feel and i don't feel i need to justify it to you, so you'll get no response from me. People have every right to say what they think/feel, and you have every right to state back that you think that it will have an effect, isn't it a great country in that way!

Seems you want there to be NO MENTION of Diebold on this board, are you the administrator? If so, then ban the word and make an announcement that the issue is no longer a topic allowed for discussion here. Until then, it is an issue on A LOT of peoples minds, and can be discussed without the repeated 'Why did you do this?' questioning.

And note, i said nothing of my beliefs on the issue, you'll have to presume.

[The Magistrate]

50. As You Say, Sir

People have a right to express their views, and to press debate in support of them. That applies to me as much as to you, would you not agree?

[kster]

40. He/she does that alot.........nt

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[glitch]

48. I don't understand why mentioning diebold encourages people NOT to vote

It can just as easily be assumed mentioning diebold is encouraging people TO vote. We need an overwhelming margin, and we need to catch them at their cheating. We can't do either if we don't vote and get others to vote. Mentioning diebold should be a call to arms, that it is assumed to be otherwise is quite bizarre to me.

[beaconess]

53. Mentioning Diebold and predicting the other side will win no matter what

leads people to stay home since they're being told that their vote doesn't matter.

Especially when a post says simply says, "fix is in" (we're doomed, DOOMED!) and offers no "call to arms" urging people to get out and vote.

Many Democratic voters are just barely voting anyway. Voting for them is inconvenient, frustrating and in come cases, expensive. It's hard enough to get people to the polls when they're motivated by hope of change. Telling them that their vote isn't going to be counted and that the other side will win regardless how they vote only encourages the most marginalized of us - those who most need to let their voices be heard - to give up.

Just "mentioning" Diebold without any further explanation or explanation of why their vote really does matter is in my view, pure defeatism and undermines the work we're trying to do.

[glitch]

55. Ok I see your point. I think it should be mentioned as a rallying call

But I think denying it actually enables it, an even bigger mistake.
Face it and fight it.

[beaconess]

59. Not saying we should "face it and fight it"

But we won't be able to do that if we tell our voters, "the fix is in." That phrase means the end has already been determined and there's nothing we can do about it. The fix ISN'T in - it will only work that way if we let it!

[The Magistrate]

61. Fraud Is Certainly a Problem, Ma'am

But our only defense against it is to swamp the polls, and encouragement of turn-out therefore should be the focus of agitation.

[glitch]

64. Agreed about swamping the polls. Not our only defense though.

Informing people of the problem and getting them to shout for investigations immediately is vital.
If the problem is ignored or denied, or even just downplayed, the investigations are far less likely to happen.

[kster]

39. You make NO sense......NT

[kster]

32. ...

[kster]

37. Probably because, THE FIX IS IN!

[kster]

31. ...

[The Magistrate]

33. Is There Some Arcane Signifigance To The Elipse, Sir?

[kster]

38. No sir , but you pissed me off,,nt

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bananas]

44. I strongly disagree, sir

I strongly urge everyone to vote, and I am extremely cynical regarding vote suppression and vote theft. Election being "fixed" is something citizens have to be on guard against, attempts at stealing elections have gone on constantly for thousands of years, back to ancient Greece. Please learn some history, sir.

It's important for us to constantly raise the issue, our candidates must know that we expect them to contest any election that seems close or suspicious in any way. People weren't in shock that the CA-50 Busby/Bilbray election was stolen, people were in shock that our candidate had to be pushed into contesting it.

We are dealing with crooks and liars, they are professional criminals, theft is what they do for a living. The terms "diebolding" and "swiftboating" have become part of the common english vocabulary.

[Ravy]

7. I think there is plenty of evidence... however,

I agree with your sentiments about the "upbeat" means the fix is in. I think, when considering Bush, upbeat is more likely to mean "denial".

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mojambo]

3. They've also been inexplicably upbeat about Iraq

But they haven't fixed that.

Look, there will be some election theft, but I don't think it's feasible that they can steal enough of these races to keep the House and Senate.

Diebold isn't used in every state.

[rzemanfl]

4. Hitler was confident he could turn World War II around long after

Germany's defeat became inevitable. That's how crazy dictators think.

[vixengrl]

8. They can steal a close one-- but I doubt they could

steal a rout without a hue and cry--even from otherwise complacent, non-tinfoil hat citizens. It only means that Dems must maintain our guard and work as hard as possible to stay on message, deliver the point that we can do better than the Republicans, and make damn sure we get bodies into booths (regardless of what we suspect in re: the machines themselves.) The exit polls vs. the results in 2004 were damn suspicious, but I don't think they've the audacity to try and rook races where someone's been well and truly beaten. I'm concerned, but I prefer to think of the "upbeat attitude" as a posture, so much whistling in the dark. They would prefer to think of the GOP as still the majority because for them the alternative is unthinkable--

To them. I think about it often. I'd like to see how this White House operates with a truly opposition Congress. Might be very interesting.

[Peace Patriot]

9. I can't believe the igorance of the posts above. Get a clue, people.

Example: "Diebold isn't used in every state."

Diebold and its brethren corporation, ES&S (spinoff of Diebold), both with close connections to the Bush/Cheney regime and far rightwing causes, counted 80% of the nation's votes in 2004, using TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code, with virtually no audit/recount controls, in a new electronic voting and central vote tabulation system that spread rapidy around the country, during the 2002-2004 period, engineered by the biggest crooks in the Anthrax Congress, Tom Delay and Bob Ney (both now indicted and resigned in disgrace), abetted by corporatist Democrats like Christopher Dodd.

The situation has only worsened since. Diebold/ES&S have an even greater lock on our election system today. And, yes, they are in almost every state. A third major electronic voting player, Sequoia, also has ties to the Republican Party (employs Bill Jones, former Cailf Republican Sec of State, and his chief aide, Alfie Charles, to peddle their machines--in an example of the highly corrupt practice of "revolving door" employment).

The Bushites are fully capable of stealing this election, using these extremely insecure and insider hackable voting systems. To what extent they will steal the election is the only question.

[Kurovski]

11. Mark Crispin Miller's book "Fooled Again" also outlines many other

methods by which election fraud was/can again be accomplished.

[nolabels]

13. We are bookmarking and bringing this thread back up on Nov 12

along with the many others of whoever that will be coming around to say we told you so. Dang it already, please people get a clue. They stole 3 elections already, what makes you think they wont go after the fourth :shrug:

[Tom Rinaldo]

14. I care a lot about this issue. I've organized against election theft

But at this point this line of thought is simply counter productive. Warning against the possibility of election theft, even at this late date, DOES serve a positive function, it puts the G.O.P. on notice that this issue is being closely monitored. It puts the public on notice to be vigilant.

But worrying in public about whether a fix is already in and that it doesn't matter how people actually vote does nothing but sap energy away from people's motivation to bust their asses to influence the outcome of these elections. It runs directly counter to all the efforts so many of us now need to make to convince people that they need to vote this year, and that Democrats can win IF they DO vote.

Personally I don't know to what extent anyone plans to screw with the vote this election, but I do know this. This election is as important as virtually any we have ever been through. Public perceptions are increasingly swinging toward the inevitability of a large Democratic victory in November. That was NOT the case in either 2002 or 2004.

Whereas in prior elections Republican spokespersons and "pollsters" were able to quasi plausibly explain previously under reported Republican majorities by arguing that the Republican base was totally fired up behind the Republican ticket this time around, and all those church goers were giving each other rides to the polls in numbers no one could ever have predicted yada yada yada, they can NOT make that claim this year. The news is constantly reporting that Democrats are much more motivated to vote this time than Republicans. News reports keep coming in about even conservative Republicans being disgusted with their Party this year.

Does any of this make the elections completely theft proof? Life never comes with that type of guarantee. But the more momentum we can generate for Democrats through our hard work heading into the elections the more dangerous any attempted theft of the elections would become for those who would attempt it. People are much more aware now, and the plausibility excuses they might be tempted to use to cover it are increasingly being shredded daily because people believe the Republicans really deserve to lose this time. In 2002 and 2004, despite how obvious it seemed to us at the time, the choice was never that obvious to the American people.

But assuming you believe Republicans think they can and will steal the elections in November, it doesn't change ANYTHING. We still need to do everything possible to support the campaigns of every single Democrat running, because we want to feed into our momentum, we want everyone and their distant cousin to be able to reel off the names of 5 people they personally know who voted Republican in 2004 but voted Democratic this year. IF an election gets stolen we will need people to have had that type of first hand personal experience that would undercut the validity of any fraudulent election result numbers.

So I think we all should be doing everything in our power to strengthen the growing perception, both through our deeds and words, that a huge Democratic victory this November is inevitable, NOT that "the fix is in". At this point all that "the fix is in" talk does is suppress voter turn out on OUR side. If you know ahead of time that your vote simply will not count, why bother casting it? I will have no part of spreading such a message.

And feel free to help volunteer through phones and/or checkbooks to help us in NY win up to 5 new Congressional seats next month. We still use the same simple mechanical voting machines we have used for generations. THAT would be a productive response to this concern.

[beaconess]

15. Beautifully said!

[The Magistrate]

26. Well Said, As Always, Mr. Rinaldo!

[Arugula Latte]

58. Good post, Rinaldo!

:thumbsup:

[ClusterFreak]

16. I'm completely open to the notion of e-theft of the votes...

Time will certainly tell, and if the rethugs somehow pull off a stunner at the polls next month (another one, I should say...)I'll believe it even more. I'm no expert, but I have seen enough over the last 6 years to believe the neo-cons will stop at nothing to hold on to power. From what I've heard, your 80 percent figure is accurate as well. People who poo poo the Diebold scenario as simply the stuff of conspiracy, need to explain to me what Peter King meant by "we'll take care of the counting".

[beaconess]

10. We're doomed, DOOMED!!!

The fix is in. No matter what we do, we're gonna lose because the other side is so nefarious, so calculating, so all-powerful that we can't possibly ever beat them.

Let's just roll over and play dead.

Just like they'd like us to.

(who needs to steal an election if you can convince the other side that you're going to win no matter what they do?)

:sarcasm:

[K8-EEE]

19. I Honestly Think They Can Only Fix Them If It's CLOSE

This is not going to be close. I hate the "we'll lose no matter what" mindset because we need people to SHOW UP AT THE POLLS!

[BeFree]

63. Now who is spreading this crap?

The only time I ever read such discouraging words are when they are written by those attempting to shout down the people who are alerting on the coming train wreck.

Prove me wrong. Show me one real election reform person who agrees with what you wrote. Just one.

[The Watchman]

12. Will the Levee Break?

I think it is still too optimistic to predict the repubs losing the house and/or senate. the people's attention span is short and thier memory is even worse, but they prone to fear.

I'll post here a Krugman column, if its bad form to put something this big in, let me know for future refrance. I don't have the ability to start my own thread.

October 13, 2006
Op-Ed Columnist

By PAUL KRUGMAN
The conventional wisdom says that the Democrats will take control of the House of Representatives next month, but only by a small margin. I’ve been looking at the numbers, however, and I believe this conventional wisdom is almost all wrong.

Here’s what’s happening: a huge Democratic storm surge is heading toward a high Republican levee. It’s still possible that the surge won’t overtop the levee — that is, the Democrats could fail by a small margin to take control of Congress. But if the surge does go over the top, the flooding will almost surely reach well inland — that is, if the Democrats win, they’ll probably win big.

Let’s talk about Congressional arithmetic.

Unless the Bush administration is keeping Osama bin Laden in a freezer somewhere, a majority of Americans will vote Democratic this year. If Congressional seats were allocated in proportion to popular votes, a Democratic House would be a done deal. But they aren’t, and the way our electoral system works, combined with the way ethnic groups are distributed, still gives the Republicans some hope of holding on.

The key point is that African-Americans, who overwhelmingly vote Democratic, are highly concentrated in a few districts. This means that in close elections many Democratic votes are, as political analysts say, wasted — they simply add to huge majorities in a small number of districts, while the more widely spread Republican vote allows the G.O.P. to win by narrower margins in a larger number of districts.

My back-of-the-envelope calculations suggest that because of this “geographic gerrymander,” even a substantial turnaround in total Congressional votes — say, from the three-percentage-point Republican lead in 2004 to a five-point Democratic lead this year — would leave the House narrowly in Republican hands. It looks as if the Democrats need as much as a seven-point lead in the overall vote to take control.

No wonder, then, that until a few months ago many political analysts argued that the Republicans would control the House for the foreseeable future, because only a perfect political storm could overcome the G.O.P. structural advantage.

But what’s that howling sound? Every poll taken this month shows the Democrats with a double-digit lead in the generic ballot question, in which voters are asked which party they support in this election. The median Democratic lead is 14 points.

And here’s the thing: because there are many districts that the G.O.P. carried by only moderately large margins in recent elections, a large Democratic surge — one only a bit bigger than that needed to take the House at all — would sweep away many Republicans holding seats normally considered safe. If the actual vote is anything like what the polls now suggest, we’re talking about the Democrats holding a larger majority in the House than the Republicans have held at any point since their 1994 takeover.

So if the Democrats win, they’ll probably have a substantial majority. Whether they’ll be able to keep that majority is another question. But be prepared to wake up less than four weeks from now and learn that everything you’ve been told about American politics — liberalism is dead, whoever controls the South controls Washington, only Republicans know “the way to win” — is wrong. (Are we seeing the birth of a new New Deal coalition, in which the solid Northeast takes the place of the solid South?)

The storm may yet weaken. The Iowa Electronic Markets, in which people bet real money on election outcomes, still give Republicans a roughly 40 percent chance of keeping control of both houses of Congress. If that happens, will it mean that Republican control is permanent after all?

No. Bear in mind that the G.O.P. isn’t in trouble because of a string of bad luck. The problems that have caused Americans to turn on the party, from the disaster in Iraq to the botched response to Katrina, from the failed attempt to privatize Social Security to the sudden realization by many voters that the self-proclaimed champions of moral values are hypocrites, are deeply rooted in the whole nature of Republican governance. So even if this surge doesn’t overtop the levee, there will be another surge soon.

But the best guess is that the permanent Republican majority will end in a little over three weeks.

[Arugula Latte]

60. Watchman -- just to let you know, when you post an article

you're allowed to post four paragraphs, and then provide a link to the article. :hi:

[RC]

17. Plan A: Diebold

Plan B: Set aside the election and declare Martial Law.

They are not going down without a fight. They know they will see the Hague as the center attraction if they lose.

[Divine Discontent]

24. eerily...

makes ya wonder, doesn't it? Why would Wes Clark sound like he was gonna shed a tear at the end of his Iowa speech when he said DEMOCRACY is being threatened by these people!? I will devote most of my time to fighting for democracy if they somehow steal this election when their level of scandals is so large (katrina, abramoff ties, iraq lies, foley coverup, 10 or more etc. that are big) and the population keeps saying they have a 20% favoribility of congress and 35% or less of bush. there's NO WAY STATISTICALLY that the voters would still vote 50.01 % for them to retain power... no way.


www.cafepress.com/warisprofitable <<-- antibush prodem stickers/shirts

[IndyOp]

46. You missed the plan before 'Diebold' -

Antagonize a country full of 'islamofascists' or 'reds' into killing huge numbers of US Troops - such as the troops headed toward the sea just south of Iran.

...or some other horrifying October surprise.


Our chances are slim, but we are not giving up without a fight either.

We have to pray that the October surprise does not go off as planned.

That enough people are now aware of election fraud - and working actively to prevent it - that they won't be able to steal many seats or will get caught red handed.

That we have campaigned MUCH harder than necessary to get the vote out.

And if your plan B comes into play - we have to hope that the troops tell them to go shove their orders up their ass.

:kick:

[AtomicKitten]

41. Since when did any of us take the MSM seriously?

They sold their souls a long-ass time ago. Tonight CNN introduced a piece asking whether the current crisis with Korea is Bush's fault or Clinton's fault. It is reprehensible that after being in office six years this administration is capable of strong-arming the media into asking such an absurd question. Screw 'em.

[elehhhhna]

45. They are inexplicably upbeat about EVERYTHIGN THEY EFF UP: Iraq,

the economy, the deficit, etc as nauseum.

Was the "fix" in to manage Iraq? HELL NO! They are simply SOP DEEEEEElusional.

[sendero]

47. They've been "inexplicably upbeat"..

... about every failure they've made, including the Iraq "war".

Their mood or prognostications are as valuable as a bucket of warm spit.

[glitch]

49. Rove believes if you act like a winner no one will question your "win"

when you steal it. But they are whistling past the graveyard (and it's a huge graveyard of their own victims) this time.

To be very clear: I want the Democratic turnout to be massive, I want the Republicans to again steal it and THIS TIME I want them to get caught at it. Red-handed.

To deny their inclination to election fraud is to ignore the opportunity to catch them at it. I think that is a tactical mistake.

[sendero]

51. I agree..

.... if they are planning on stealing this one they have their work cut out for them.

Doing so in one state is probably do-able, doing it in 20 probably not. The more people involved in it all the riskier it becomes.

And there is no way they can walk away with a victory in a race where they were trailing 15 points without raising the suspicions of the most ardent true believer.

[glitch]

54. And they have the arrogance to try it anyway.

And they are shooting the moon so they have to try it anyway. It will be a thing of beauty to see them fail, and fail dramatically. Perhaps even fail spectacularly.
Let's make it so. :hi:

[sendero]

57. You might be right..

... they seem to have no self-regulation on their behavior. This has led to Delay, Abramoff, Ney, Cunningham, Scooter, Scanlon and countless bit players to be looking at not picking up the soap for years.

I think everyone has known folks like this in their personal lives. People who start out small, getting away with little things. Then, they start trying bigger things. When they get away with that, they start thinking they are invincible and so they start thinking they can get away with anything. And then they fuck up spectactularly, and they seem to be the only ones who didn't see it coming.

I see it coming, yes indeedy!

[opihimoimoi]

52. DEEP DENIAL is my take

[The Magistrate]

62. That Is The Pond In Which He Swims, Old Friend

Come, let us drain it and broil fish for supper....

[opihimoimoi]

65. Kudos to you Sir, You of clear thoughts and keen Mind....

Come, we plan the Good Future....full of Promise, or Positiveness, of Common Good....

Out/expose Republicans who are of Negative bent...they having heads full of tripe and BS on the Minutiae level below 101.01

Sadly 89% of Pubs fall into this despicable Level where Selfishness/Ignorance reside..

Come, we go open the Windows for more Fresh Air and Sunlight to cleanse Society of this Pox called Conservatism....

:toast:

[Maestro]

56. Or he is just as ignorant to what is happening

in America as poppy * was.