It's time to end this Clinton/Bush regimes

[bigdarryl]

After the current Bush term is over we would have had 20 years of these two families running this country.and now they want to give us Hillary that would mean (if she wins)24 and possibly28 years of this BULLSHIT!!!

[Totally Committed]

1. I totally agree...

And I wish there were a way to recommend this about 1000 times.

TC

[FARAFIELD]

29. hMMM

Its time to end threads like this by freepers. Um, president clinton was great, BUSH SUCKED WANG, where were you when bush was running. Ive seen this thread about 5 times in the last week, im sick of it, I like Edwards and Fiengold but if you are aaying vote for a repuke IF hillary is the nominee then you are out of your mind.

[Botany]

2. u r right Bill Clinton sucked

peace & prosperity ..... damn him ... damn him to hell

[jhrobbins]

4. Exactly - we can't have that sort of thing anymore... n/t

[Totally Committed]

7. I know, to some, this is akin to blasphemy, but....

We've got to stop kidding ourselves about Clinton!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2874731&mesg_id=2876809

I wrote this the other day for another thread, but I really believe this is the case.


TC

[JuniperLea]

11. The Nixon years look good from this vantage point?

I had not read one credible sentence up to the point I read that one. Ipso facto, the whole piece became utter bullshit. Nice try.

[Totally Committed]

15. You don't think the Bushes have made the Nixon years look good?

Perhaps I should have used the :sarcasm: smilie for you... that's what it was SARCASM.

If you don't think I've got a point, fine. Like I said... the subject is akin to blasphemy for some. I understand.

TC

[JuniperLea]

20. Perspective is everything

I don't think you are veiwing the big picture.

[TankLV]

17. Absolutely right

After all, 8 years of hope, peace and prosperity get boring really fast - especially with the current state of exciting wars, deficits, astronomic debt and unemployment and FEAR!!!

Yep - you got a real good memory and handle on reality...

[cali]

19. I don't give a shit how great the Clinton years were

I don't want to see the Presidency bounced between 2 families.

[onenote]

60. then don't support Hil in the primaries, work for a different candidate

why shouldn't those who feel differently get to vote for and support their candidate of choice?

[JuniperLea]

8. I must have been guzzling the Klinton Kool Aid

Cuz I thought those were great times too. What was I thinking?

:shrug:

[acmavm]

12. That's the one thing that's so damn funny about people who blindly

support Bill Clinton. They think the guy is totally responsible for the great economy during those years.

He was lucky. Conditions were sooooo amazingly (and only temporarily) fantastic while he was in the white house. The dot.com bubble carried him along on a high-tide of American economic leadership in the computer and computerized information/media industries.

Then, as they say, the bubble burst (just like the housing bubble is doing now).

And then of course there's that gift from Bill that just keeps on giving. NAFTA. One of the biggest shafts to the American worker ever hand delivered by any administration.

Bill Clinton did have his good points. Compared to what we have now (and his father and Reagan) Clinton belongs on Mt. Rushmore. But his continual support of the BFEE and his cozy relationship with Poopy should tell the American people that Bill Clinton was, first and foremost, out for Bill Clinton.

[JuniperLea]

NAFTA was a long term solution to a short term problem

And it's the one crusty feather in his cap. If you want to harp on that one thing, fine. I prefer to view the big picture.

[blm]

36. Well - he did make that disastrous choice to protect Poppy Bush and close

the books on IranContra, BCCI, Iraqgate and CIA drugrunning.

That ended up REVERSING all the good moves he DID make the moment Bush2 took office.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

3. So, if Hillary wins the primary and it's her vs. McCain,

who do you vote for?

[RC]

6. Or Hillary vs ANY republican.

[bigdarryl]

9. We as dem's don't let them push Hillary on us we...

get organized and get behind one canidate like Fingold, Kerry or Edwards or a Governor who hasn't annonced there running yet

[JuniperLea]

13. That's a fine and noble thought and cause

But spewing bullshit propaganda like this isn't going to help you. Don't take pointers from the other side if you want to be deemed as credible.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

16. You haven't answered my question. -nt

[blm]

18. I'd vote for HRC, but do it knowing she'll continue covering fpr BushInc

and THAT is what will PISS ME OFF about voting for her.

I expected BILL to open the books, but he chose to continue covering them up for Poppy Bush.

[JuniperLea]

5. Clinton was a wonderful president

The economy was great, the rich and the poor got richer. Diplomacy lived in the White House and discussions with other countries were ongoing. We had peace.

I have no crystal ball, so I can't comment on what kind of president Hill would be, nor do or can you... or anyone. I don't think it's fair to lump her with Bill. And I certainly don't think it fair to lump Bill with the Bushes! That's plain silly, imho. Makes no sense whatsoever.

[Zensea]

14. I don't lump them together but I basically agree with the OP

America was founded to break the system of royalty.
Hillary may not be Bill, but she's in the same family.
It smacks too much of hereditary succession in my opinion.
The issue for me is not whether I agree with the positions of the people being selected but that the selection should not be narrowed into being de facto monarchy.

[TankLV]

23. That's the ONE thing I agree with - we don't need no stinking ROYALTY.

Enough of this familial shit.

There are plenty of NON-RELATED persons out there who can do a good job - we just have to find them.

I would automatically DISGARD any familial candidacy out of hand for just the reason that we are NOT a monarchy!

[JuniperLea]

24. They were married. They don't share DNA... not the same family at all

We do have a narrow selection, no question. I just shudder to see all the Hillary hating... I don't like her much myself, but if she were pitted against anything the RW has lined up, she'd get my vote.

Instead of wasting energy hating, I would think people of your mindset (which is good basic thinking) should spend their time heralding candidates that can beat her. Hating makes you look way too Republican.

[Zensea]

37. I didn't say anything about hating her

that's your projection

[Pepperbelly]

38. I believe that your position is anti-democratic.

If they win the primaries and elections, do you propose a committee or something to overturn the will of the electorate? I didn't care for that in 2K.

ed to turn i into if.

[Zensea]

39. Didn't say that

If it's the will of the people, fine ... just goes to show the people are reverting to monarchy.
BUT, I'm not going to vote for her in the primary because of my belief and I hope other people don't either.
In addition there are lots of things in the electoral process that are anti-democratic.
By the same token you could argue that the amendment to the constitution prohibiting a third term for the president is anti-democratic and of course the electoral college is also.

[Pepperbelly]

40. I could vote for Hillary ...

I would gladly check her box over any possible gop. I do not know who I will vote for in the primary. Not a clue. But I do note that with all her campaigning for Democrats this cycle, she has not visited New Hampshire or Iowa. There others for whom this cannot be said.

[MissWaverly]

10. I agree with you

I don't think that the spouse, brother, mother, father, sister, brother, daughter, son of a president should run for office, people vote for them based on their feelings for the president,
we have seen what happened with George W. Busn, people thought they were voting for someone like
his dad, or if he messed up, his dad would help him which has not been the case.

[aquart]

21. So the Republicans have decided we're running Hillary

And you agree with them.

Interesting.

Thank you for your concern. It's a busy morning.

[JuniperLea]

25. I vote this best post of the thread!

We are being slipped Kool Aid and some don't recognize the manipulation. Seriously scary.

This reminds me of the recent CA gubernatorial primary wherein a hell of a lot of bashing went on between two Democrats. Now, the Repub candidate is using the Democratic talking points against the remaining Dem candidate. It's ugly. I'm betting this is the same tactic being lined up here. And far too many of us are too blinded by hatred to see we are being manipulated.

[Totally Committed]

44. You catch more bees with honey than with vinegar...

I'm not sure that going from post to post of people who do not agree with your particular POV and ridiculing them is the best way to win them over to your side.

Just saying.

(If we could ever really have a genuine conversation about this -- with honesty instead of name-calling, and real give-and-take instead of recrimination, this whole Party might benefit.)

TC

[China_cat]

22. As much as I want to see a Dem

take the White House, I truly believe that if the party names Hillary as their candidate, there is no way we will get the repukes out of office. The world would go to hell even more quickly while our congress would be 'investigating' rumors of lesbianism and (probably) Bill's sex life all over again. And even the most yellow dog Democrats I've talked to are severely conflicted about it...they don't want to vote another party but---

[JuniperLea]

26. That is exactly the Repub plan, and you can see by this thread

far too many of "us" are being sucked into the spin cycle.

Wake up people! The more you voice hatred toward Hillary, the more you are being used by the Rebub Spin Machine!

[China_cat]

28. I don't hate her. I think she'd make a good president

just not NOW. Clinton is just not a name that's going to make for anything but more division and mule-headedness on both sides with the result that those of us without the power will be the big losers.

[JuniperLea]

30. I was speaking of the Hill hate on this thread

Not from you in particular.

I just feel we are all being manipulated.

[acmavm]

31. Exactly why is it that you, and posters like you, always say that if you

object for any reason to a Hillary candidacy, you are being used and manuevered by the republicans? Why do you think that, like myself, people just may have some very damn valid reasons for not wanting Hillary to run?

Are the republicans projecting some kind of mind ray that tells us to not want Hillary as the nominee? Is that what you're saying? Are you saying we are too damn stupid to know for ourselves why we don't want her as the party's nominee?

What is it that justifies that empty 'you're playing into the repubs hands' nonsense? Just because Hillary supporters say so?

[JuniperLea]

33. Exactly why is it that you, and posters like you, always waste

your energy on hate instead of supporting a candidate you would prefer.

Where did I ever say your reasons for not wanting her to run were not valid? I agree with you! I don't want to see her in the WH either! But I'm not going to fall for the hate tactic.

No, I'm saying you are too damn blind (not stupid... that was your word) to understand that bashing a Dem is exactly the tool they want in your shed! Honestly. I'm not a Hillary supporter by any means. I think the bitch is whack! Pay attention! Don't you see the pattern? FCOL!!! If you don't like her, ignore her! Don't give the other side any more fodder! What if she is selected as the Dem candidate? What then? They will take every bit of hatred YOU AND OTHER POSTERS LIKE YOU have spewed and use it against her. Then we will have another Repub in the WH!

Think Angelides and Schwartzenegger... think CA gubernatorial primary... there are many more just like it. Now the Repubs are using the hubris spewed between Dems as their platform! It's classic! And far too many are falling for it.

[acmavm]

35. If you don't like her, ignore her? Don't talk about her?

Are you saying don't voice any concerns or dislikes that we may feel about any candidate?

No debate, no trying to convince others that they are wrong? In other words, no politics or political discourse during an election?

Whatever.

The other thing I don't understand is what makes some people so damn sure that they know it all.

[JuniperLea]

59. I don't know either... why don't you enlighten us?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. We are speaking English here, are we not?

Negativity can and will be used against her/us should we not find a candidate we can prop up by speaking of their positive traits.

If you don't understand the sense in accentuating the positive and eliminating the negative, there...

A wise man wastes neither his man nor his words.

If you can't do the math with the examples given, try a crowbar on that closed mind.

[IndianaGreen]

27. I think you meant to say "dynasties"

Clinton was a legitimate Administration that abided by the Constitution, while Bush is a dictatorship that has placed itself above the law. "Regime" properly and exclusively applies to the Bush dictatorship.

[FreeStateDemocrat]

32. One of the major concerns of the founding fathers was a ruling class

gaining control of the United States and that may have transpired with its accompanying perils. McCain or whoever the repuke nominee will be can
only be designated with the endorsement of the Bush family.

[mtnsnake]

34. So because Bush/Bush exists, Clinton/Clinton shouldn't. Great logic

Yeah, let's roll over again and let Republicans be the only party who can dictate who has two members of the same family in the WH. They did it, so we shouldn't.

How about we let the candidate's personal credentials be the factor and not the fact that she was married to another president.

If a close relative of JFK got elected to the WH, none of us would think twice about it or be complaining about dynasties.

This is nothing but selective criticism because it's Hillary Clinton we're talking about.

Besides, the fact that you're so worried about it proves you think she could win.

[electron_blue]

41. I also can't get that out of my head

[The Count]

42. Without being a Clinton fan, what Clinton regime you want to end?

I can think of better candidates on 08 and not even happy to vote her for senate, but that being said merely saying "Clinton regime" makes you sound like a freeper...

[RobertSeattle]

43. How about ending all the white male regimes?

43 White Males in a row...

[Mr_Spock]

45. Bill Clinton was the best President in my lifetime

I am not necessarily a Hillary supporter, but I'm not going to make a childish statement concerning a person's name and how that qualifies them for Presidential duty.

[thingfisher]

47. Old paradigm

I guess I don't really belong on this site. It appears that this site is for people who really believe that the Democrat/Republican/left/right/conservative/liberal paradigm is valid and rational. Let's face the fact that the two party system is a myth. What we have in America is a one party system with two factions jockeying for the seat of power that exists for the benefit of a rich elitist class. The government is a political extension of these elites to exert the control over the general population necessary to implement the policies that will protect their interests and hold on to power.

Nostalgia for the Clinton years is understandable in the wake of what we have experienced over the past six years BUT there is a lot of Clinton history that has never been adequately acknowledged. Perhaps the vast right wing conspiracy and Monica Gate did its job too well in obscuring the truly interesting deep story of Clinton complicity in abetting the Iran Contra affair while governor of Arkansas. You know, Mena, Barry Seal, cocaine, CIA, etc., etc., etc. Maybe that explains the unseemly respect and friendship between Poppy and Bill.

We Americans are, collectively, the most naive people on the planet with an inherent inability to see through the red, white and blue propaganda that keeps us believeing that we are a nation of benevolent good will toward all the world. The facts are available for anyone to ferret out with the time and desire to do so, but unfortunately most are to distracted by the Punch and Judy show of right vs left to make the effort.

[Mr_Spock]

48. I still think Clinton was the best president in my lifetime

Your analysis of politics aside, I want a leader who is inspiring and has his heart in the right place. I'm sure I could find a thousand negatives about ANY president we revere (or not). You seem to be taking an approach that only allows for your viewpoint as you clearly have a bone to pick with Clinton. I am astounded at your "all or nothing" approach to this site based on a few posts you disagree with. Can you imagine how boring it would be if everyone saw the world the way you do? I like Clinton and always will, no matter what the idealist and haters throw our there. I've yet to meet a perfect person (or leader).

[SaveElmer]

46. If this is a deciding issue for people...I would rather have them not vote

It's no better than voting for someone based on their looks...


Ridiculous...lumping the Bush's and Clinton together like there is no difference between them....

[demwing]

49. How is voting for close family members ANYTHING like

voting according to looks?

Don't you see that this issue isn't about names, but about ideas. Furthermore, the Bush's and the Clinton's are only ideologically far apart when you have a narrow focus. Take just one or two political steps back, and Republicans and Democrats are not so different.

Though, for me as well, the difference is sufficient. I have nothing against Hillary, but why in the hell do we have to look to another Clinton in 2008? Are there NO other candidates? Of course there are.

I want fresh ideas for 2008, not a rehash of the 1990s.

[Justice]

50. Totally Agree

[wiley]

51. Weekly anti-Hillary obsession. Get over it already.

[AJH032]

52. Clinton Regime?

wow...

[The Count]

54. Bizare, huh?

I didn't know they made brushes this big...

[Dragonbreathp9d]

53. I've got an idea, lets resurrect FDR!!!!

[FredScuttle]

55. Chelsea in '12!

then Jenna and Babs in '16

Boo-yah!

[Skittles]

56. what is bullshit is equating Clinton with bush

one of them was a REAL PRESIDENT

[freedomchips]

57. boy, would you LOVE this....

http://www.geocities.com/clarksapples/UndoBush.html

[Clarkie1]

58. I don't like oligarchies as a matter of principle. Undemocratic, imo. nt