Hillary to NY Daily News Ed Board: Sometimes torture is an acceptable tool

[AlGore-08.com]

Here's RJ Eskow's blog about it:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rj-eskow/the-immoral-moderates-h_b_31790.html

The Immoral Moderates: Hillary Clinton and Chris Shays

Nobody could have anticipated that this Administration would engage in the most extreme evisceration of our moral values in American history, through its policies of torture abroad and illegality at home. Because of this radicalism, politicians who want to appear "moderate" are now forced to compromise their basic moral values in order to "run to the center." Hillary Clinton's recent statements in support of torture makes her the latest example, while Christopher Shays' ongoing moral implosion proves that the phrase "moderate Republican" is now an oxymoron.

Sen. Clinton was given a simple test by the Editorial Board of the New York Daily News - and she flunked. She had taken a clear stand against the use of torture during the recent Senatorial debate, which was a refreshing change from her practice of equivocation on critical issues.

"Have we fallen so low as to debate how much torture we are willing to stomach?" said the Senator. Then she did exactly that, by falling for the same rhetorical trap that has confused and captured so many others. Asked about the fictional "ticking time bomb scenario," she said (according to the News' Ben Smith) " ... there is a place for what she called 'severity,' in a conversation that included mentioning waterboarding, hypothermia, and other techniques commonly described as torture."

She added, "I have said that those are very rare but if they occur there has to be some lawful authority for pursuing that ... there has to be some check and balance, some reporting ... in those instances where we have sufficient basis to believe there is something imminent."

(snip)

Here's what Sen. Clinton should have said: Your scenario is fictional. Even if it were true, intelligence experts agree that information obtained through torture is usually bad. We would be more likely to spend the last few seconds before the bomb exploded looking in the wrong place. And once we torture, we become the people the terrorists want us to become, because it's good for their recruitment. Look at Iraq. That's what we've done there, and it's a failure. Lastly, and most important, if we lose sight of our ethics and values we become a nation in moral decline. We must never let that happen.

(more... )


Here's the original report:

http://blogs.nydailynews.com/dailypolitics/archives/2006/10/clinton_on_tort.php

[tigereye]

1. no, it's sickening and disgusting

and should never be permitted.

I hate all the equivocation on this topic.

[Benhurst]

2. I used to consider Hillary an acceptable tool, but no longer. NT

[saltpoint]

3. In my opinion, it is never acceptable.

[bluestateguy]

4. Oh, I'm sure that will make the Freepers stop saying mean things about her

She and her husband need to realize that the white male, Confederate flag waving, knuckle dragging, Southern Baptist fundamentalist, gay bashing Freepers will never, ever approve of them. Yet she keeps on trying to win their approval. Pathetic.

[wryter2000]

5. Ye gods

Do you suppose he's not telling the truth about what she said? I don't support her for President for other reasons, but I have a hard time believing she'd say this. If so, let her become a Republican, or better, a KGB agent.

[AlGore-08.com]

7. Well, she's been quoted saying this by McCain's team and other GOPers

She hasn't responded with a "I never said that" or "I never meant that" PR attack.

So either

1.) She said it and meant it, or
2.) She's willing to pretend she said it and meant it for short term gain, or
3.) She's too clueless to realize that she can be Swiftboated like any other Democrat

Six of one, half a dozen of the other IMNSHO...

[MannyGoldstein]

6. Ah, The Golden Triangle

I cannot believe how many otherwise sane people believe that Ms. Clinton has any redeeming value whatsoever. The evidence is crystal clear that she and her mate are nothing but a cash-and-power-crazed sociopaths.

[Dob Bole]

8. Ah, yes...a better reporting system for torture...

Torture is ok, as long as it's transparent?

How about a better reporting system for when your Senator is a tool? I would like that a lot better...

[Dhalgren]

9. Why can't people answer the "ticking bomb" straw man with the

very simple answer, that if an American agent of any stripe resorts to torture, for any reason, they will be brought to trial. If a judge and jury find that there were "extenuating circumstances" then so be it. Why must torture be made legal in any degree, to any degree? It is not legal for a police officer to shoot a citizen. Any police shooting must be investigated and determined to be either justified or not. Now, it is true that more often than not the police officers involved are exonerated (justly or not), but the requirement is maintained.

Torture should be illegal, period. Whether or not a crime is committed is up to a judge and jury...

[TygrBright]

10. No, Hillary, it isn't. n/t

[havocmom]

11. Atempt to justify some torture to look strong...

only makes one look very, very weak.

[VOX]

12. Sorry Hil, but torture is *never* acceptable -- anywhere, anytime.

Torture is utterly antithetical to this country, which poses as a beacon of freedom to the rest of the world.

:grr: