Am I suppose to roll over & play dead this election Because I am Gay?

[Democrats unite]

Am I suppose to forget that I am just as good as anybody because I am gay? Am I to tell my lover of 11 years, sorry honey we still can't get married & get tax breaks just like the rest of "normal" Americans, not just yet, because we are gay? We have to keep sacrificing for the good of the party. We that have given so much (one a veteran the other pays through the nose in taxes) & ask so little in return we are still expected to wait.

We have fought for our Country, we pay our taxes, we are law abiding citizens, we go to church we own our home.

And the funny this is what we ask for doesn't cost anybody, anything!

We have given till there is no more to give, when do we get apiece of the American pie?

[dsc]

1. Yes

We are totally unworthy of even simple rights and are ungrateful rat bastards for daring to say we are. (sarcasm)

Seriously, I don't think I could get into a worse state than I am now by the state of these affairs. Alledgedly liberal pundits declare there are no real anti gay bigots out there, and that we are all part of some nefarious anti family agenda. I am plain sick.

[mermaid]

100. Yes, And While We're At It....

Why don't we just completely ignore the transgender Americans, like me...who work an honest job, vote, pay taxes, abide by the law, etc. etc. And just send all those "genderqueers" to the back of the civil rights bus?? I am DAMN sick and tired of hearing gay this gay that gay this gay that, and no inclusion of transgenders!!

Damn it!! When will you people finally GET IT that we transgenders are also human, and every bit as deserving of our rights as you are??

When will we see a transgender-inclusive ENDA??

When will we see equal rights for TRANSGENDER Americans?? I have HAD IT with the selfish, arrogant gay rights leadership who have informed us transgenders that, for THEIR good (and supposedly ours) that we must once again move to the back of the bus!

They keep claiming that they will take the boat first, and then send the boat back for us. Well, I'm still waiting for my boat ride! And the gay leadership has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to convince me that their stated intentions of "sending the boat back for us" are anything more than lip-service...or to convince me that their intentions are honorable. In fact, their actions indicate their intentions are mean-spirited, selfish, "me first, screw you" attiude!

Damn, I gotta wonder why, with the "me first screw you" attitude so many gays have regarding transgender Americans...why aren't there more Log Cabin Republicans?? Te "me first, screw you" mentaility fits admirably into the Republican Party platform!
:grr:

[Dookus]

2. well

I don't see how sitting out helps. You can either vote for one of the major Democratic candidates (who all support Civil Unions) or sit out and let Bush and his team stay in office, and wait for them to outlaw civil unions.

Despite what's being said here, there is no real difference between Kerry, Clark and Dean on this issue.

[Democrats unite]

3. Sorry t disagree with you on this Dookus

Kerry stated He is against the MA Supreme Court Ruling.

Clark stated That he Welcomes the MA Supreme Court ruling with open arms.

I would say that is one hell of a big Difference!

[Cronus Protagonist]

13. Clark is looking BETTER and BETTER

I swear, I'm getting to like him more and more. And he'll be shoo-in as well. You GO General, SIR!

"ANYBODY BUT BUSH" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[Uzybone]

18. Clark said he is for gay marriage????

or did he just say that it should be left up to the states?

[Democrats unite]

20. Here you can read for yourself.

By Wesley Clark

The ink was barely dry on the Massachusetts State Supreme Court's gay marriage decision, and the Republican Party was trying to use it as an election year issue to divide Americans. But this issue should not be a polarizing one. There's no reason why we shouldn't treat all Americans equally no matter what their race, religion or sexual orientation. That's why I welcomed the Massachusetts court decision with open arms.

http://clark04.com/articles/013/

[formernaderite]

23. Of course he did...he's neither liberal or conservative...

...he just represents the status quo.

[Democrats unite]

25. see post 20.

[Sapphocrat]

4. Not AFAIC, Du...

But then, I'm in the same boat, so my opinion bears little no weight on the issue.

Maybe everything we've said all along has opened a few eyes, but the truth is, the minds that are made up ("It's a wedge issue! You gays will ruin our chances at election time! Just WAIT until the backlash! The sky is falling!") are made up, for whatever reason.

If you find the magic words to make those folks understand that they're only empowering the Right, then please sing out, friend. 'Cause I sure don't know how to speak logic to panic anymore.

Btw, it's not even a "no-cost" deal -- it's a money-making deal, for everybody from caterers to wedding-hall bookers to honeymoon planners to divorce lawyers.

One of you is a vet? God, you're getting screwed over from all sides.

[Democrats unite]

9. My lover was part of Desert Storm

We have been screwed so bad lately people aren't even using Vaseline on us anymore!

Point well taken on the cost factor.

[corporatewhore]

5. I cant believe that people say that we should shut up about EQUAL RIGHTS

[chascarrillo]

6. My caucus in WA doesn't think so

One of the propositions we voted on was a clear affirmation of the right of people to marry (not "unionize") whomever they wish, regardless of gender. The measure passed.

Unanimously.

With several hundred people voting.

[Democrats unite]

14. Thats good to hear, thanks for sharing!

[corporatewhore]

30. I think thats great too!!!

[Mairead]

42. And did your caucus go for Kucinich, too?

If not, then there's a disconnect in their heads.

[childslibrarian]

7. Vote Democratic

You have a chance....otherwise, forget it.
I hope that we can give you a fighting chance. I am behind you all the way. Know that everyone is not against you...

[stromboli]

8. ...

the gay community needs to be loud and active as a voting source. nearly every politician is going to cater to the safest voting source. if they KNOW 90% of gay voters are actually going to vote, they'll start representing gay issues. As it is now, they just assume apathy among gay voters is more or less the same as everyone else, so they're going to cater to the safe majority of straight people who won't REALLY be offended if the candidate does't address gay issues.

[lastknowngood]

10. Yes you are you are a part of the democratic base which

must be defamed and ignored so Kerry can appear "Presidential" and not that awful Liberal thing. If the democratic party would just try to consolidate and fire up their base as Dean and Clark do we could kick every repugnant ass. I'm sick of hearing how we need the middle of the road types, we don't we need them we need our base which is much larger than the repugnants.

[Straight Shooter]

11. Yes, you will. And the rest of us will have to (see text)

The rest of us will have to stick our butts up a little higher and ask the party to ram it in a little deeper, please, oh, thank you, that feels so much better than the screwing that bush is giving us.

:puke:

[Adamocrat]

12. Remember...

All people are created equal, but some people are more equal than others.

Kerry made me want to PUKE with his recent comments regarding the MA SJC ruling. If I have to vote for him in November, I'll be holding my nose whilst doing so. That man has NO guts whatsoever.

-A

[Cronus Protagonist]

15. YES - Well, after all, the people are afraid of The Gay Agenda

http://cronus.com/agenda

"ANYBODY BUT BUSH" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[Democrats unite]

16. Is that your website?

I love that place! Been going there for months! If it is, keep up the great work!

[Cronus Protagonist]

17. It is, and THANKS!

It's always nice to hear from site visitors. Especially when they like it :)

"ANYBODY BUT BUSH" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[David Zephyr]

29. Great Website, Cronus.

:thumbsup:

[Cronus Protagonist]

104. Thanks (eom)

"ANYBODY BUT BUSH" Buttons, Stickers & Magnets

[tedoll78]

19. No.

My parter and I won't roll over either.

However.. being practical thinkers, we readily recognize that there is one issue that will matter more than most others: the Supreme Court.

Think about what the Supreme Court could look like in four years. On it right now, we have:

Four liberals: Stevens, Souter, Ginsburg, & Breyer.
Two moderates: O'Connor & Kennedy.
Three nazis: Rehnquist, Scalia, & Thomas.

Stevens is in his mid-80's and has a history of health problems.
Ginsburg could see a sudden return of here cancer.
O'Connor could, after years of speculation, finally retire.
Rehnquist, 30+ years after Nixon appointed him (!), could finally decide to quit.

If a Democrat wins and does the appointing, the court looks like this: 6-1-2, Liberal-Moderate-Conservative.

If a Republican wins and does the appointing, the court looks like this: 6-1-2, Conservative-Moderate-Liberal.

Any of the Democratic candidates could appoint high-quality justices.. people who could sit on the bench for 10, 20, maybe even 30 years. This is no time to be pussyfooting around because the nominee doesn't march 100% to your views, or mine for that matter. For once, people on the left need to demonstrate some pragmatism.

[Democrats unite]

22. Awhile ago I would have given that exact same argument

But me & my partner have decided along with several of our friends that 2004 is do or die.

This may sound like taking our ball & going home, but we have decided that if things don't go our way, we will be singing Oh Canada.

I am originally from Michigan, I have no problem living there until cooler heads can prevail in America. Damn It, I am an American & shouldn't even have to contemplate something like this!

[Mairead]

44. Why would a 'moderate' Democrat knowingly appoint liberal justices?

There seems to be a disconnect there. There are 2 liberal and one formerly-liberal-now-moderate Democrats standing for election. The rest are 'moderates'. So why would anyone but the two liberals appoint liberal justices?

[kentuck]

21. It is always darkest just before the dawn...

Do not give up. Do not lose hope. Keep your faith...The wheels of history turn slowly but they turn nonetheless.

[corporatewhore]

24. what is driving me insane is that people wouldnt be apologetic if a

cannidate didnt want to grant equal rights and thought granting equal rights was wrong for latinos or african americans

[mondo joe]

26. Don't roll over - but move forward

As long as we get a President who at least supports civil unions, I can take it.

As much as I think the EQUAL right is imperitive, I'll take it in a few steps. Let people get used to the civil unions, let them see Canada's same sex marriages, and they'll relax.

[JasonDeter]

27. Well

Getting civil unions would be like America putting a man on the moon! considering a majority of the American people are opposed to what you want. To deny a Democratic candidate the prize of President and giving it to bush* just because you can't convince a simple majority to agree with you to me is unforgivable. I will never forgive nader for the stand he took in giving the election to bush*, please don't follow his example.

[corporatewhore]

28. would you say the same thing to latinos if a cannidate thought

granting us equal rights was wrong? it is not about whats popular it is about whats right!

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cornus]

37. I support gay marriage because it's the right thing to do.

It has everything to do with equal rights. Using the argument that "only they (a man and a woman) can procreate and have families" to justify your opposition to gay marriage is ludicrous. For me, civil unions are enough, but I recognize the fact that many gay people want to have a 'marriage'. This in no way jeopardizes the state of marriage as it presently exists.

[JasonDeter]

46. A majority of American's says it does.

And they will back it up with a constitutional amendment if necessary. And for a lost cause the Democrats will hand the pResidency to bush*, how sad. Why fall into the trap of the republican party??

[mondo joe]

49. You're wrong - majority won't back amendment

The majority doesn't support same sex marriage - but the majority also don't support a constitutional amendment.

[Mairead]

45. You've just written one of the ugliest posts I've ever read at DU

Yecchh!

[mondo joe]

50. Tell me who is giving that option?

"It has nothing to do with 'equal rights'. If what the homosexual communitee want was about equal rights, civil unions would be enough."

Ridiculous - would you say that about interracial unions when they were prohibited? That they should accept a civil union instead of a real marriage?

"Settle for the civil unions and quit while your ahead."

Tell me one thing: Who is giving the gay community the option to accept civil unions instead of marriage? Because no one has asked me yet.

[JasonDeter]

51. Thats the mistake the homosexual community is making.

To equate being homosexual with being black is I think ridicules! You can go into any restroom you want, blacks could not do that. You can go into any restaurant you want, blacks could not. You can vote, blacks could not. You can go to the front of the bus, blacks could not. You can go to any school you want, blacks could not. You can go to any college you want, blacks could not. You can get a fair trial, blacks were lynched without a trial. My gawd, the list is endless!! Its offensive to equate the two! BUT, if equal rights was all you wanted then 'civil unions' would satisfy the homosexual community. But again, that is not the agenda, the homosexual community wants to be treated like and considered like a man and woman would and that is just not reality.

[mondo joe]

52. Why do you refuse to answer my questions?

"To equate being homosexual with being black is I think ridicules! "

But I didn't equate being homosexual with being black. I equated prohibiting same sex marriages with prohibiting interracial ones.

No comparison of race - just a comparison of people deciding which other adults shouldn't be allowed to marry.

So please answer me:

1. Would you have said of interracial couples that they should settle for civil unions instead of marriage?

"BUT, if equal rights was all you wanted then 'civil unions' would satisfy the homosexual community. "

So answer my questions:

1. Who is offering gays civil unions instead of marriage?

2. Which gay spokesperson is refusing civil unions instead of marriage?

3. Do you think "separate but equal" is constitutional?

[JasonDeter]

57. You keep trying to equate the black experience with being homosexual?

Its preposterous to even suggest that interracial couples should settle for civil unions! Interracial couples marrying is not a moral issue, homosexual's getting married IS a moral issue. That is the rub. It is not a moral issue for those who are sympathic to the homosexual agenda but it is a moral issue for those who see it otherwise. Yes, that is the rub.

"if equal rights was all you wanted then 'civil unions' would satisfy the homosexual community."

Whats so hard about this statement or what more do you need?

[dsc]

66. actually interracial marriage was a moral issue

It was a religous base that made people object. The only difference now is that very few people oppose interracial marriage and many people oppose gay marriage.

[mondo joe]

67. Jason, you seem confused as to the facts regarding civil unions

"Its preposterous to even suggest that interracial couples should settle for civil unions! Interracial couples marrying is not a moral issue, homosexual's getting married IS a moral issue."

To the contrary, the only objection to either marriage is one of subjective morality.

" 'if equal rights was all you wanted then 'civil unions' would satisfy the homosexual community.'

Whats so hard about this statement or what more do you need?"

What's so hard for you to understand about the fact that:

a. The united States is NOT OFFERING CIVIL UNIONS
b. No homosexual group has rejected civil unions for marriage instead

Please answer my simple questions:

1. Who is offering gays civil unions instead of marriage?

2. Which gay spokesperson is refusing civil unions instead of marriage?

3. Do you think "separate but equal" is constitutional?

You write "Settle for the civil unions and quit while your ahead" while you ignore the fact that THERE ARE NO CIVIL UNIONS TO SETTLE FOR.

Forthermore, I am not equating "the black experience with being homosexual" --- the prohibition against interracial marriage wasn't anti-black. It applied to all races.

[Scottie72]

55. Well then..

You can go to the alter with the person you love and have the goverment bestow on you 1049 rights and priveleges and I CAN NOT!

on edit: spelling

[dsc]

68. Tell that to Matthew Shephard

BTW if you go to any decent gay bookstore you can find a guide to places for gays to go eat, stay, etc. They are modeled after similar guides I saw at the Civil Rights Museam.

[Bonobo]

54. Really? Then why did you post this thread!?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=727248

You said, and I quote: "You are either happy or you are married."

So if you believe in the sanctimony of marriage so much, explain yourself?

:wtf:

:puke:

[ulysses]

59. hey, Jason - a question if you don't mind.

Marriage is between a man and a woman, only they can procreate and have families.

I'm hetero, married for eleven years this June. I'm also sterile due to cancer treatments when I was eleven. Does the fact that my wife and I can't "procreate and have families" make us less a married couple in your eyes? Should we not have gotten married at all?

[BL_Zebub]

101. "it is not about whats popular it is about what's right!"

There's a candidate in this race who has said those words often. Not coincidentally, he's also the one who signed a civil unions bill into law despite hate mail and even death threats, from some of his own constituents.

[Meldread]

31. I'm gay too, but I'm going to...

I'm gay too, but I'm going to make the nominee work for my vote -- especially Kerry. If it's Kerry I'm going to grab him by the balls and squeeze until I get satisfactory answers to all of my questions. I'm going to be just as hard on him as Rove -- if not more so.

[OneBlueSky]

32. I'm gay, too . . . and I will be voting for the Democratic candidate . . .

for two reasons . . . first, at least a Democratic president will be someone we can talk to, educate, lobby, and maybe influence . . . whereas we will have no seat at all at Bush's table . . . we won't even be invited into the room . . . and second, any candidate we nominate will put forth far more liberal and progressive Supreme Court nomninees than Bush will . . . a "Bush Court" will be the most regressive in the history of this nation and a disaster for our future, since we'll be stuck with them for, oh, thirty years or more . . .

the choice in November will be between Bush and the Democratic nominee . . . one of them will win no matter what we as individuals do . . . anyone who doesn't understand this, and the magnitude of the chasm between them, is far too wrapped up in their own personal agenda . . .

[rocketdem]

33. I am not gay. However...

...I absolutely support the civil rights of homosexuals in exactly the same way that I support the civil rights of every other citizen of this nation.

As I see it, you're faced with three choices. Either you vote to suppress civil rights by voting Repuglican. Or you throw away your vote by voting for a third party candidate. Or you vote Democratic and move the glacier just a little bit in your favor.

No, unfortunately there are no perfect choices. The bigotry of the masses has ensured that. But it is better to vote for a general direction than to either vote against yourself or throw your vote away.

[Democritus AChE]

35. Great post, but...

"We have fought for our Country, we pay our taxes, we are law abiding citizens,"

Good for you!

"we go to church"

Umm, no comment... Well, I mean, I guess if you can ignore the fact that you are sinful demons in the eye's of the Christian god, that's okay, but personally I couldn't go to church if I was gay; I would see no need to. Actually, I see no need to now, though I'm not knocking people who go. I simply don't understand why Gay's, who otherwise are pretty progressive, would want to continue going to church when churches as a whole are keeping the gay community down. I guess if "infiltrating" is what you like to do, fine, but personally, I would have never infiltrated and joined forces with Hitler to change things; I would have started my own movement.

[Cornus]

39. I agree

What you posted is the main reason why I stopped (more than thirty years ago) attending the church I was raised in. That's what worked for me. However, I have several gay friends who attend church regularly. I don't understand it knowing how organized religion views gay people, but evidently it works for them.

[election_2004]

40. Well...

I grew up raised Catholic, and many politically-liberal people attended my church. Most of them couldn't care one way or the other if other members of their congregation were gay.

And the Unitarian Universalists openly welcome gays & lesbians into their fellowships, as do many Quakers.

[Democritus AChE]

70. It's not a matter of who lets you use their fountain...

It's not a matter of who lets you in, it's about philisophical differences and beliefs which DO CLEARLY state homosexuality a sin. I'm sure KKK members would welcome some people too, that doesn't mean they should attend a KKK meeting.

[BL_Zebub]

102. While it might seem odd for the Devil to speak in favor of Christianity

I must point out that my old friend JC never said a single word on the subject of homosexuality, and even in the Old Testament, it was given the same status as having sex with a woman while she's on the rag, or eating pork chops and clam chowder for dinner.

All of us down here in Hell have a great chuckle every time the so called "moral leaders" blame the homosexual boogeyman for all of the world's problems.

[JCMach1]

36. No, you don't... however the Gay Marriage issue

is a Republican distractor issue...

The REAL issue is FUNDAMENTAL civil rights for Gays/Lesbians/Bisexuals/and Transgendered people in this country.

Let's fight for that!!!

[election_2004]

38. My perspective as a gay male...

I think the biggest priority is defeating FMA, which should be doable if we heavily lobby the Democrats and moderate Republicans to vote against it. We only need 191 (out of 435) members of the House of Representatives to vote "no," and the Federal Marriage Amendment dies.

As far as the presidency goes, if we can get Kerry (assuming he's the nominee) to commit to supporting national recognition of civil unions, and if we can get him to speak out against FMA and expose it as a Right Wing attempt to rape the U.S. Constitution (thereby exposing the Far Right for the hatemongers who they really are), we'll be on the right path toward getting civil unions in the near future and gay marriage in the long-run.

I echo everything that people have said here about a President Kerry's appointments to the U.S. Supreme Court, which is where the issue may ultimately be decided anyway.

But if the Democrats let FMA slide through Congress and get ratified by the states, then I will never vote for any Democrat for public office ever again. And neither will many, many other non-partisan gay voters (causing the Democratic Party to lose a huge voting bloc). And you can take that to the bank!

[kodi]

41. personally, i wouldn't take that position, if you know what i mean

your comments about tax breaks run counter to what civil unions are supposed to overcome, viz., economic inequality for homosexual couples.

please explain for us the economic disparaties between marriage and civil unions that you indicate.

do each provide the same economic, civil, and legal rights?

[dsc]

48. It depends on what civil unions end up meaning

Under DOMA, both marriages and civil unions are not able to get federal tax benefits. If MA performs gay marriages then I am sure someone will sue to get those benefits by declaring that part of DOMA unconstitutional. I would think they would lose.

Civil unions are a made up status to a large degree. In VT, they entitle the holder to all of the state benefits of marriage and none of the federal ones. In MA, if they go that route, who knows. But, since they are distinct from marriage there is no case under DOMA.

Other states don't, again under DOMA, have to recognise same sex unions. Currently 38 won't. If MA goes for marriage, someone will challenge this. This is a little more likely to get struck down IMO. Full faith and credit is a well established concept. Hope this helps.

[Laughing Mirror]

43. “I’m the only candidate that, whether I win or lose,

I can perform a gay marriage, and I will do that.”
Al Sharpton

http://www.ngltf.org/electioncenter/Sharpton.pdf

[Dr Fate]

47. I compromise with every vote I ever cast...

rarely do I ever get a candidate who reflects my beliefs 100%...

A DEM win would change the tone in this country and put us closer to where we need to be...

[DianeG5385]

53. You DO need to get over it!

You are a citizen of the United States before you are gay. You owe a responsibility to your country FIRST!! Yeah, you're gay, many people are, we cannot allow the you know who's to use gays as the new "blacks" to divide our country with the gay marriage issue. Get rid of the idiot, and maybe we can all be human again.

[dsc]

56. Yeah we can't have that

After all we might actually get used to have real rights. God forbid we demand to be treated like real Americans, instead of just acting like them.

[buddhamama]

60. it is this mentality that makes me ashamed to be a Democrat.

The Country has a responsibilty to its Citizens. Gays are citizens without Equal Rights.
If we are to be divided i will stand on the side of Human Rights and Equality always.

[mondo joe]

86. And by "all" you mean....?

"You are a citizen of the United States before you are gay. You owe a responsibility to your country FIRST!! Yeah, you're gay, many people are, we cannot allow the you know who's to use gays as the new "blacks" to divide our country with the gay marriage issue. Get rid of the idiot, and maybe we can all be human again."

And by "all" you mean.... whom? The gay people whose vote you want, but would rather not recognize?

[ulysses]

58. so it would seem.

Welcome to the storage room of party politics. There's a free seat between the labor and public education folks. Someone pops in here from time to time to remind us that the party rewards the faithful, so it shouldn't be too long a wait...

[mdguss]

61. This Becomes an Issue:

(IE the Democratic Party takes a position in support of gay marriage), and the Democrats go down in flames in November. The constitutional amendment--which Sen. Frist is going to force Kerry to vote on--will easily pass. In fact, the worse of the two amendments will pass. Even if that doesn't pass--but believe me it will-- Bush will get to appoint up to 6 Supreme Court Justices.

The new conservative majority on the court will find that marriage is inter-state commerce, and that Congress has the right to regulate it. That, therefore, federal laws have supremacy over state laws when they conflict. Massachutes' ruling is over-ruled on those grounds. In fact, all civil unions' laws will be over-ruled on those grounds.

Look at the polls in key states, gay marriage is not popular and not going to get votes. Try to win the presidency without Ohio, Louisana, West Virginia, Florida, or Arkansas. Protest about gay marriage, scare people down there, and you'll get four more years of Bush and a solidly Republican Congress.

I think the Democratic Party should not even come close to this issue. The farther away the better. If this becomes a major issue with leading Democrats crusading for gay marriage, George McGovern will end up looking like a successful candidate.

[ulysses]

62. here comes the clue bus - it's already an issue.

We can either run away or cave - in which case Rove declares victory to the fundie faithful and moves on to the next hot-button issue on which we can face our next choice - or we can stand our ground.

[buddhamama]

64. which is how we ended up here to begin with

living in fear has us sliding backwards, regressing.

no not yet, not now, soon we promise.

history has shown that, when couragous individuals distinguish themselves by standing up to the Powers that Be, by being the Power of Right and inspire the masses, change occurrs.

[ulysses]

65. yup.

We're as phobic of change as we are of the Republicans.

[hippywife]

63. No way!!

The network that Dennis has built is backing you 100%!! We're calling our state reps to make sure they don't initiate any anti-gay legislation and donating money for ads.

You are not alone. Progessives have gotten a taste of what can be and will not leave anyone behind as we plow forward to change the face of America to one we can all be proud of.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dsc]

71. I don't want to wake up in 2013

and still not have ENDA or hate crimes. We helped Clinton get in and 8 years later we had not much to show for it. I won't throw my rights away just to appease you.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dsc]

74. Yes I am such a selfish bastard

Shame on me. BTW, though I am not one of them, a goodly number of those soldiers with your boy are gay and unlike him, won't have the rights you take for granted. But evidently those people are less valuable.

[Name removed]

75. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dsc]

76. and people on this board wonder why some of us would rather drink poison

than work with Kerry supporters. When the DNC asks for money or time from me I will print out your profile and tell them to ask you to work. I am tired of people like you telling people like me what right I should and shouldn't have. I do feel for your son but the simple fact is that 1 out 6 people there are just as gay as I and will come back to people like you telling us to sit down and shut up. Clearly you don't care about that. Why, oh why, should they care about you?

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ulysses]

78. outed?

dsc is gay?!?! I'm shocked! Shocked, I tell you!

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ulysses]

81. ?

The "f" word? What the fuck are you talking about?

[dsc]

83. Lets face it we both know exactlly what he or she is talking about

and it ain't pretty. Go ahead Kerry supporters tell me why I should work with that kind of person. I really want to hear this.

[buddhamama]

85. i'm curious what you are, i have no idea what "f" means

the only thing i can come up with "f" = fake democrat.

this whole thread has made more than a little upset with "fellow" democrats.

[dsc]

89. try

fag that is the only thing that makes any sense to me.

[ulysses]

88. I've been trying

to convince myself that the "f word" is "French" or something. No, it's not working.

[dsc]

90. We both now what it was

and frankly it is disgusting. Thankfully it has been taken care of.

[ulysses]

91. as has the poster.

:thumbsup:, mods.

[dsc]

92. I would have said that but thought it might break rules

but the poster is gone.

[buddhamama]

96. i am sorry, dsc

it honestly never occurred to me that the DUer was calling you a fag. i am embarrassed.

thank you, mods.

[dsc]

98. not your fault

I would like to think that wouldn't happen either. But I fail to see anything else that could have been meant.

[oxymoron]

93. Why do you insist on painting all Kerry supporters

with one brush? I've seen plenty of incredibly mean-spirited attacks coming from Dean people when he was on top. Yes that was an insensitive comment. There are a lot of them on DU these days. Are you really basing your vote on the candidates supporters at DU? I'd say that is more than a little short sighted and incredibly petty.

And who the hell asked you to roll over and play dead? As a gay man, I will happily support John Kerry as the nominee. He has a sterling record when it to gay rights and liberal causes. He has the highest rating one can get from The Human Rights campaign. I'll take their word for it, thanks. Any effort to portray him as anything but supportive of the gay community is disingenuous in the extreme.

[dsc]

95. I'm not

but I also won't go to a large call center type thing when some percentage act that way. Clearly that person represents some.

[oxymoron]

97. uhh....ok

Glad to know your candidate doesn't have supporters that get out of hand. :eyes:

[slinkerwink]

87. mmmmm.......interesting way to have a mature discussion

[buddhamama]

94. parties must be Mature to have a Mature discussion

obviously that was not the case here, at least for One of `em anyway.

[dsc]

80. good one

These Kerry supporters make me feel so warm and fuzzy.

[mondo joe]

82. Equal Civil Rights Isn't About Comfort

You know, I was ready to get behind Kerry despite my qualms.

But when you say things like "Could you guys just look at the other side for 20 minutes and try to re-evaluate what is important?" you don't make it easy.

Gay people can lose their jobs and their housing because they are gay. There are gay people who have LOST CUSTODY of their kids for no reason but that they are gay.

So since you're so worried about your kid going to Iraq, I'd expect you to have some sympathy for such situations.

Equal civil rights isn't about making anyone "more comfortable in your lifestyle".

Don't be so insulting, please.

[mondo joe]

84. wrong, wrong, wrong

"My point is you choose a candidate on who can do the most good for the largest amount of people. This isn't an election about pro-choice, pro-gay, pro-whatever."

You know, it's posts like yours that give me half a mind to campaign for Bush. If my civil rights shouldn't matter to me, why should I care about your issues?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

73. Did ANYONE, ANYONE AT ALL suggest that you should?

Or is this just a product of your imagination?

[liberty rising]

99. When Dennis Kucinich is elected to lead this nation

out of the darkness of social injustice.

support Kucinich!

[CWebster]

103. I know what you mean

It is like nothing matters except beating Bush with the candidate they sold as the only choice.