Military Commissions Act applies to aliens only?

[Maven]

I'm engaged in debate on another board. Does the MCA only apply to aliens? It would seem from the text of the statute that it does. What am I missing?

[razors edge]

1. Non-citizens

I think Patriot Act II makes it OK for * to rescind citizenship.

[rzemanfl]

7. If they say you aren't a citizen and you are, who do you tell that

to?

[razors edge]

12. A lawyer your family may hire?

Like i inferred, I'm only going on hearsay. I have not found a complete link too both PA II nor this abomination. And I fear the purpose of the legalese is to allow flexibility a contortionist would be envious of.

[rzemanfl]

13. The lawyer can take your case where? No habeas corpus. n/t

[razors edge]

15. Depends.

If you hire Dewy, Screwem, & Howe probably nowhere, but if you can afford James Baker III and Associates the question takes on new meaning.

[rzemanfl]

16. That is a huge comfort. I will tell my wife to sell everything and

hire those fuckers should I vanish.

[razors edge]

19. I'll see you there

one way or the other.

1) inmate.

2) heavily armored catapilar D-9 peformorming some unapproved improvments to said detention facility.

[rzemanfl]

22. Israel has a standing order for all the armored D-9s that

Caterpillar can make until 2050.

[razors edge]

25. That wont stop me,

I plan on stealing an old civilian model and building it up myself. No way I'm giving them a shekel.

[whistle]

2. Applies to anyone named as an enemy combatant regardless

...of citizenship

[Maven]

10. I'm not so sure.

See section 7 on habeas corpus, for example:

`(e)(1) No court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider an application for a writ of habeas corpus filed by or on behalf of an alien detained by the United States who has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.
`(2) Except as provided in paragraphs (2) and (3) of section 1005(e) of the Detainee Treatment Act of 2005 (10 U.S.C. 801 note), no court, justice, or judge shall have jurisdiction to hear or consider any other action against the United States or its agents relating to any aspect of the detention, transfer, treatment, trial, or conditions of confinement of an alien who is or was detained by the United States and has been determined by the United States to have been properly detained as an enemy combatant or is awaiting such determination.'.

:shrug:

[rzemanfl]

14. Who do you present your case to if you have been incorrectly

labeled an alien enemy combatant? Your only recourse is to a military tribunal, after you have been waterboarded and said god knows what.

[Maven]

18. Absolutely, you're correct

Although your recourse would essentially be to file a habeas petition, assuming you were in the condition to do so. As has been pointed out elsewhere in the thread, even if the petition got through it could go through the appeals process and potentially be denied. You could be there for years, if not forever.

The debate I was having was more on technical terms.

[whistle]

27. Exactly, this bill is equivalent to Martial Law throughout America

....no civil rights protections apply. Think about, all peaceful demonstrations could be used by the police to make arrests and label the participants as enemy combatants, thus suspending their civil rights indefinitely. This is the neoconservative wet dream of enforcement of complete civil obedience and non-questioning of the ruling elite's authority.

[Eric J in MN]

3. US citizens can be labelled unlawful enemy combatants.

However, US citizens theoretically still have habeas corpus.

The effect is that a US citizen can be imprisoned for the rest of his life legally because his habeas corpus appeal was rejected by a judge.

Before the bill was signed, we would have to be convicted by a jury of our peers to be legally imprisoned for decades.

[Union Thug]

6. but once you are disappeared behind the wall of secrecy...

good luck getting the opportunity to prove you are an American Citizen.

[rzemanfl]

17. A little waterboarding and some naked nights in a fifty degree

cell will convince you that you should forget about your citizenship complaint.

[Maven]

11. This seems like the correct interpretation to me.

Especially in light of Ex Parte Quirin, 317 U.S. 1 (1942).

[rzemanfl]

26. Your point is well-taken and one I had not thought of before.

Even if you get to a Judge with your Writ, if he doesn't grant it you are just screwed, no jury, no confrontation, just the opportunity to be convicted on secret evidence, obtained by torture, before a military tribunal selected by Bush. Have you read the article on Congress in the current issue of Rolling Stone?

[rzemanfl]

4. The fact that once you have been picked up there is no one but

the President's hand-picked lackeys to assert your citizenship to. Keith covered this last night, saying "Do you expect this Attorney General to help you?" What if they mixed you up with some other person or just decided you deserved to get fucked over? You are shit out of luck without access to the courts.

[liberal N proud]

5. All they have to do is arrest you as a terrorist, call you an...

enemy combatant. You are screwed.

Who decides who and what fits the enemy combatant description? Well the decider of course.

It is only a matter of time before they arrest those who dare disagree with the regime and haul them off to water-boarding camp.

[enough]

8. According to Glen Greenwald, it applies to American citizens as well:

http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/10/what-fox-viewers-are-told-about.html

snip>

The Act even allows U.S. citizens to be subjected to this treatment (though the Supreme Court's decision in Hamdi likely requires for U.S. citizens some opportunity to challenge the detention) because even American citizens can be declared to be "unlawful enemy combatants" under the statute (see Sec. 3(a)(1)(1)). All anyone has to do is read the Act and it is immediately and undeniably apparent that it does not provide the right to be tried that Kondrake told the Fox audience it provides.

snip>

[achtung_circus]

9. Since you asked.

Ԥ 948a. Definitions
‘‘In this chapter:
‘‘(1) UNLAWFUL ENEMY COMBATANT.—(A) The term ‘unlawful
enemy combatant’ means—
‘‘(i) a person who has engaged in hostilities or who
has purposefully and materially supported hostilities
against the United States or its co-belligerents who is
not a lawful enemy combatant (including a person who
is part of the Taliban, al Qaeda, or associated forces);
or
‘‘(ii) a person who, before, on, or after the date of
the enactment of the Military Commissions Act of 2006,
has been determined to be an unlawful enemy combatant
by a Combatant Status Review Tribunal or another competent
tribunal established under the authority of the
President or the Secretary of Defense.

‘‘§ 948c. Persons subject to military commissions
‘‘Any alien unlawful enemy combatant is subject to trial by
military commission under this chapter.

"Material assistance" is grounds to be declared an enemy combatant.

That enemy combatant "may" but need not be tried by a military commission.

http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/

seems to be the gold standard.

[Ninja Jordan]

21. Look at the definitions section (948(a))

You're glossing over "alien."

ALIEN enemy combatants.

[rzemanfl]

23. If they make a mistake or just don't like you, who do you argue

the point to?

[Ninja Jordan]

20. Yes, it applies to aliens only.

While I hate this legislation, I think it's important to get the facts straight....

Sec. 948c. Persons subject to military commissions

`Any alien unlawful enemy combatant is subject to trial by military commission under this chapter.

AND

Sec. 948a. Definitions

(5) ALIEN- The term `alien' means an individual who is not a citizen of the United States.


Thus, US citizens are not subject to ANY provision of the bill.


As Olbermann noted, however, if you're labeled an 'enemy combatant' and locked up with no habeas corpus, how can one try and prove their US citizenship?

[rzemanfl]

24. I agree with Keith and when he raised this with Ashcroft, the

asshole just spun and blustered and ended with something like "you have to trust the President..."