not the final word on the John Kerry matter... but a nice additition

[wyldwolf]

“Give me five more John Kerry’s,” says Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee Chairman Rahm Emanuel (D-Ill.). “He’s a fighter, and he puts his money where his mouth is.” – Roll Call, 5.1.06

“He also won plaudits for working on behalf of House candidates. `The question is was somebody willing to stand up back in the dark days when I needed help, and he was,’ said US Representative Rahm Emanuel, chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee.”
– Boston Globe, Brian Mooney, 10/9/06

[cadmium]

1. There no question in both Money and Time

No one is working harder. He is even spending an evening working for a New Hampshire governors council candidate this weekend.

[wisteria]

2. Thank you! n/t

[AtomicKitten]

3. no one implied he wasn't working hard --- that was not the point

I thank those that took the time to send me lovely PMs; I too wish you had the guts to say what you feel out loud here. The fact that you don't is incomprehensible to me and contrary to the core purpose of discussion boards. And the fact that people feel that way here should be of concern to those that say they cherish the First Amendment.

[ProSense]

4. Now you're attacking the integrity of people who sent you PMs?

You know, there are people who don't support Kerry and people who may be irritated by others support for him, but have some decency! Free speech goes both ways, you can't try to silence Kerry supporters by whining!

[AtomicKitten]

5. one more time

An alarming number of people here at DU feel they can't speak up precisely because of people like you. My post was acknowledging them en masse because I'm going to the airport in about 20 minutes and don't have the time to acknowledge individually those that sent me PMs. I am confident they will agree I am not attacking them but rather commiserating.

Part of the problem is that you consider anything that might be construed as not on the same page as you an attack, and you IMMEDIATELY retaliate for the imagined slight. You almost always respond inappropriately to posts because you either don't understand what you are reading or don't want to understand and prefer to just react.

There is safety in numbers and inappropriate behavior flourishes in that environment, and I have little hope that that dynamic will change here at DU. I surrender. You win. Congratulations.

Adieu.

[ProSense]

7. Every one of your post is aimed

at framing an enemy! You seem unable to grasp the purpose of discussion and debate. A dissenting opinion is not an attack! Responding to a post with factual information is not an attack! Repetition is not an attack! Calling people Jihadists, now that's an attack!

[Kerry fan]

11. Freedom of Speech is one thing.

Freedom to invent your own facts is quite another.

I have no problem with anyone's opinion if it is based on facts. When it is based on false information, I have a problem.

[_dynamicdems]

18. Here, here! Well stated.

False information and lies. There are blatant lies on that site that can easily be disproved by anyone with 5th grade research skills and the motivation to verify the facts.

[lillilbigone]

12. Your entire post is nothing but a personal attack.

An alarming number of people here at DU feel they can't speak up precisely because of people like you. My post was acknowledging them en masse because I'm going to the airport in about 20 minutes and don't have the time to acknowledge individually those that sent me PMs. I am confident they will agree I am not attacking them but rather commiserating.

Part of the problem is that you consider anything that might be construed as not on the same page as you an attack, and you IMMEDIATELY retaliate for the imagined slight. You almost always respond inappropriately to posts because you either don't understand what you are reading or don't want to understand and prefer to just react.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

[druidity33]

13. heh heh heh... good one! n/t

[blm]

10. The core purpose of discussion boards shouldn't be swiftsmearing, either

especially against your own party members.

Gadsden rules: We don't strike first - we WILL strike BACK.

That's what any civil society should adhere to, even a political discussion board.

I doubt too many people who have armed themselves with the facts they use to base their opinions would be shy about posting them here at DU.

[_dynamicdems]

19. Swiftsmearing is a RW, self-replicating virus.

We need to be smarter than to be carriers.

Intelligent discussion and discourse is one thing. Rabidly spouting RW talking points is another.

[talk hard]

24. not RW to want Kerry to give back money

thats just your talking point

[MH1]

27. Not very informed though.

Especially since this current smear is couched in "Kerry isn't supporting Democrats" (BULLSHIT) and was started by an anonymously registered website. Ring any bells for you?

[Mass]

28. I dont care who it is - As long as they do not have the courage to

do it in the open, they are chickenshits. Nothing more.

[_dynamicdems]

54. Oh really? Why isn't it RW to get Democrats fighting amongst

ourselves? They are actually pretty good at it.

That Democrats would put up a Web site that contains lies that are so easily proven to be lies by anyone with the research skills of a 5th grader just doesn't make sense. And the annonymous site also smacks of RW deception. Cowards hide their identities and we know which party is composed of chickenshits, don't we?

My talking point? That is a pretty idiotic thing to say, by the way. You sound like a Republican. Are you?

[blm]

57. Except it's a LIE - JK's given WAY MORE money than most Dems COMBINED.

Not to mention how much of his time, fundraising and volunteers he has given candidates for the last 18 months.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saltpoint]

31. I speak in zulchzulu's defense, as I feel that zulchzulu is among the

demonstrably clear-headed and warm-hearted souls on these boards.

I'd say many of us have learned from zulchzulu's posts, including insights provided that uplift and refresh.

If it were left to me to find a worthy team player to suit up against the Republicans, I would have no further a hunt than zulchzulu, who would be perfect in the blue line-up.

[zulchzulu]

38. Wow...thanks!

I love your posts too.

[zulchzulu]

39. Apologies for this...

I just felt that way this morning when I saw what I feel is a knee-jerk reaction to anything about Kerry from this poster...

[Dr Fate]

6. Happy to agree with you on this! n/t

n/t

[MH1]

8. Thank you. n/t

[Democrafty]

9. I remember reading these quotes the first time.

Thanks for the reminder :)

[survivor999]

14. But where is his mouth?

That's the question. :)

[saltpoint]

33. The answer, in significant part and on the record, is that it is a

modest if elegant instrument through which the lessons of American history are conveyed to a populace which has sadly abandoned Franklin's and Jefferson's informed citizenry model of the founding years.

Kerry is on the record in this capacity, serving this function, doing this brave work.

And has been since the 1970s.

[nam78_two]

15. k&r/nt

[talk hard]

16. not getting the Kerry thing here

don't tell me you want him in 2008 ... ugh

[Mass]

17. I sure do, but this is not the point of the thread, I think.

[_dynamicdems]

20. Many of us do! Around the country he's drawing crowds bigger than

he did in '04! He's like a rock star wherever he goes. I've attended quite a few Kerry appearances since 2004 and at every one, the crowd cheered and mobbed him afterward. His support is huge and it is growing every, single day. And I'm talking SUPPORTERS: cheering, screaming, woohooing, passionate supporters who don't want ANYONE BUT KERRY in 2008!

I happen to like his politics, his knowledge, his diplomacy, his values, his fire, his stamina, his heart and his drive. IMHO, there isn't anyone else who even comes close to Senator Kerry in experience or in the wide range of expertise you need to be President of the United States.

Perhaps you are looking for a new face?

As I recall, George W. Bush was a new face in 2000 and that didn't turn out so good.

[talk hard]

22. if you say so

blechhttt

[_dynamicdems]

53. Just today I spoke to two different people about politics and they

both said they REALLY LIKED KERRY. So TFB!

So you can be as disgusting and vulgar as you like, it won't change a thing.

:rofl:

[MH1]

26. Well, there was a smear going around

that Kerry wasn't doing anything to support Democrats running in this cycle.

Nothing could be further from the truth. There have been several posts debunking the smear; I guess wyldwolf hadn't seen this one posted and felt it was a pretty strong statement.

Personally I support Kerry in '08 but I don't know that the o.p. does. One does not have to support a person for the '08 nomination to deplore a smear and help fight back against it.

[saltpoint]

32. Democratic caucus and primary voters will all get to show up at their

polling places to nominate our candidate in 2008.

I wonder if the 'ugh's' might best be directed at the Republicans.

[blm]

58. Name the Dems who get 60-65 million votes right off the bat?

.

[Unbowed]

21. These are great quotes. Thanks for posting. K&R

:kick:

[Mass]

29. Another one, this time from the DSCC - Criticism of Kerry is misguided!

Many prominent Democrats, including DCCC chairman Rahm Emanuel, an Illinois Democrat, have praised Kerry for spending his time and money helping candidates. Hassan Nemazee , the DSCC's national finance chairman, said criticism of Kerry is misguided.

"People have notoriously short memories in this business," Nemazee said. "Cumulatively, John Kerry has done as much if not more than any other individual senator."

The Boston Globe 10.21.06

[saltpoint]

30. Hey wyldwolf. Thank you for this post. There's something your

post here invokes strongly for me. At first glance they won't seem connected, but for me, they are.

It's Auden's elegy for Yeats, where he says,

"In the prison of his days
Teach the free man how to praise."

Your post offers praise for Democrats, not only for one, but for the community of Democrats many of us consider an integral extended family, even if we've never worked for the famous ones and have only volunteered as anonymous supporters.

Your thread connects us to that famliy on this Saturday afternoon.

And I am very glad for it.

Thank you.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[saltpoint]

35. You repeated a baseless attack on a Democrat.

You offered no summary material at all to suggest that the quoted piece might not be accurate. You just ran it straight through the channel, no questions asked.

You were called on it.

Strongly.

That's what happened.

[AtomicKitten]

36. this is the last thing I will say to you

The request comes from Democrats, Democrats that disagree with you, an opinion we are entitled to express without personal attacks and whether you like it or not.

Kerry is sitting on money that was donated and intended for but held back in 2004, money that might have made a difference in Ohio 2004, money that he is holding for use in 2008.

In every single commentary about this, the good works are acknowledged and it is also pointed out fairly that there are other politicians sitting on money as well that could be used to put more seats in play in November.

That is a fact.

[saltpoint]

37. You misspeak. Your point is unfairly targeted. You're doing it on

purpose.

And you do it consistently on these boards to debase this one Democratic candidate.

Why didn't you ask instead if the Democratic Party can compete with the Republicans this year for the midterms? Recent reports suggest that we're doing better than ever in fundraising.

When people called you on your singling out Kerry, why didn't you acknowledge that he isn't the only Democrat, that there are many others, and that there is not only the possibility but the likelihood that many of those, Kerry certainly included, who HAVE given generously?

And then that would have been our starting point.

[AtomicKitten]

40. I did in my OP - you are just conveniently ignoring it

Right here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2893836&mesg_id=2893836

LARGE AS LIFE:

"And John Kerry isn't the only problem. Evan Bayh, who also will likely be courting all of your votes and your money when he runs for president in 2008, and then there are the 45 House Democrats who are running for re-election in uncontested races. They have NO Republican opponents, yet are sitting on $26 million.

You can find the list of 45 here: http://www.cqpolitics.com/2006/10/for_55_house_incumben...

$26 million.

Why the hell aren't they ponying up?"


Now, do you have any more baseless claims to assault me with, or are we done? I think people get the idea of what is going on here, and it isn't at all the picture you are trying to paint.

[saltpoint]

41. No one has assaulted you here. Kerry's generosity is a documented,

demonstrable and established fact.

My question to you is why you won't acknowledge that fact and instead, post consistently on these boards against one Democrat.

That hurts all Democrats.

[AtomicKitten]

42. you and your friends have done nothing but assault me (edited)

and lie about me and make fun of me and make broad statements about my intentions and twist everything I say and just make shit up to create strawman arguments to burn down simply because I have a different point of view and am not afraid to express it.

How you can state otherwise with a straight face is unbelievable. Just upthread zulchzulu made a really rude, mean-spirited post trashing me (on edit: that has since been deleted; someone called him on it and that got deleted too). But what do you do? You compliment him.

And while you're up on your high horse, you might want to wag your finger in the face of your cohorts that consistently trash other Democrats including the Clintons, Barack Obama, Harold Ford, Clark and Edwards, and many, many others at any given time. But you don't. You remain silent. THAT is what hurts the Democratic Party, my friend (euphemism), not a difference of opinion.

Your self-righteous admonitions are duly noted, by everyone.

I have worked tirelessly for the Democratic Party since I first voted in 1972 and I don't take kindly to your insinuations meant to demean that.

[saltpoint]

43. One strategy might be to begin with affirmation of our candidates.

Take Joe Biden. He's not a wildly popular guy on DU, but I'll be damned if I want to debate the man on foreign policy. Is there a damn thing wrong with stating, up front, "Biden's grasp of foreign policy is formidable, and always has been, and I appreciate his principled stand against John Bolton."?

It doesn't mean you have to vote for him in the primaries. But it asks that you respect him as a Democrat and as a potential candidate. That doesn't seem too much TO ask.

It's not that tough to do.

Play for the blue team.

[AtomicKitten]

44. you may want to use the search function

and find out what your buddies have to say for instance about Hillary Clinton, or is fairness too much to expect here? They have ZERO respect for her nor for other potential 2008 contenders. You are doling out advice that SHOULD be spread across the board. Apparently being fair IS tough for you and the claim of "playing for the blue team" is just a cover for a bias you don't even see.

[saltpoint]

45. I speak for me. I don't speak for others. If your post is to me,

address it to me.

Others in this thread who have spoken in defense of John Kerry are entirely capable of speaking for themselves. I find them a dazzlingly well-informed and communicative group of Democrats.

Re my defense earlier today of zulchzulu: he was called "a jerk" by another poster and I took issue with that and spoke in his defense. I don't think much of that kind of puerile remark.

You can look my posts up in the archives any time you wish. And I'm always willing to discuss the issues with you.

Thanks.

[AtomicKitten]

47. you alternately speak for "everyone" and then yourself

"Nobody has assaulted you" ... you speak for them when it suits your purposes and back off when their behavior is something you don't want to deal with, but then again nobody does around here so I can't blame you there.

I don't see you chastising them for their comments about Hillary and other 2008 contenders, but DU will look forward to seeing that in the future now that you've come out to correct the tone around here.

Looking forward to it.

[saltpoint]

48. I speak as I speak. You're welcome to read my posts or ignore them.

I really don't give a hoot.

If you want to discuss communication on political issues, respond to my suggestion of possible strategies in discussing possible candidates.

Or, if you'd rather, you could begin with an affirmation of Dick Gephardt. I'm happy to discuss his merits.

Or, Kathleen Sebelius. I love her.

Or, Jon Tester. I hope he kicks Conrad Burns' ass up in Montana. God bless the grassroots support he's had, and let's hope for a big win out there on election night.

Or, we could talk about the traditional role high-profile Democrats have in helping out with not only money, but in personal appearances, and so forth. There are many such Democrats. Kerry is among them, and according to Rahm Emanuel, Kerry even stands out among them as exceptional.

You pick a starting point, and we can go from there. If you don't like my support of others on DU, that's too damn bad.

[AtomicKitten]

49. I'll be sure to call on you.

Even though you have expressed a preference for Kerry, I am confident because of your admonitions to me that I can count on you to defend and support all other 2008 contenders here on DU.

Thank you for your magnanimous efforts to instill and preserve fairness and support all our potential candidates by insisting that all DU'ers are respectful toward them.

You are a mensch.

Have a great day.

[saltpoint]

50. Three posts on DU of recent date come to mind.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2893921&mesg_id=2893921


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2897467


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2897201

All praise a particular candidate, but note the tone of affirmation. I've read hundreds or maybe thousands of affirming remarks on these boards about Democrats.

I like that.

I like it when someone, from out of the blue, posts something affirming about Birch Bayh. Or Mario Cuomo. Or Barbara Boxer. Or Thomas Eagleton.

I think it's good politics.

[benny05]

46. I wish folks would quit trashing Kerry

He's done a good job for our country in his role as Senator; he votes 99% of the time for what we wish on bills, and he raised some big bucks for Dems who are running for the first time or gave them some cash.

[Joe Chi Minh]

51. It's insane, but what part of a Republican wish list isn't? As I recall,

Lieberman styled himself a Democrat. And many other fifth columnists. Kerry dissers in good faith should keep better company.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

52. "Give me one less Rahm Emanuel." - RiF

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

55. Kick

[wyldwolf]

56. condemn RiF to another 12 years in the wilderness - - WW