Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Christain right and rise of US fascism. Your opinions,please

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 08:10 AM
Original message
Christain right and rise of US fascism. Your opinions,please
I think the article by Chris Hedges about the Christain Right and the Rise of American Fascism," to be a vital read. I have the utmost respect for one's religion as long as it leaves me alone. I think this article goes a long way to expose the Christain's right desire to create a Christain state. While I want to live in harmony with the Christain right, I fear many who view me as a secular humanist are ready for war with the likes of me. Anyone think Chris Hedges overstates rightist Christain goals?
I don't . Excerpt & link below. Taken from Theocracy watch.
THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT AND THE RISE OF AMERICAN FASCISM

By -- CHRIS HEDGES

15 Nov 2004

Dr. James Luther Adams, my ethics professor at Harvard Divinity School, told us that when we were his age, he was then close to 80, we would all be fighting the "Christian fascists."

The warning, given to me 25 years ago, came at the moment Pat Robertson and other radio and televangelists began speaking about a new political religion that would direct its efforts at taking control of all institutions, including mainstream denominations and the government. Its stated goal was to use the United States to create a global, Christian empire. It was hard, at the time, to take such fantastic rhetoric seriously, especially given the buffoonish quality of those who expounded it. But Adams warned us against the blindness caused by intellectual snobbery. The Nazis, he said, were not going to return with swastikas and brown shirts. Their ideological inheritors had found a mask for fascism in the pages of the Bible.

He was not a man to use the word fascist lightly. He was in Germany in 1935 and 1936 and worked with the underground anti-Nazi church, known as The Confessing Church, led by Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Adams was eventually detained and interrogated by the Gestapo, who suggested he might want to consider returning to the United States . It was a suggestion he followed. He left on a night train with framed portraits of Adolph Hitler placed over the contents inside his suitcase to hide the rolls of home movie film he took of the so-called German Christian Church, which was pro-Nazi, and the few individuals who defied them, including the theologians Karl Barth and Albert Schweitzer. The ruse worked when the border police lifted the top of the suitcases, saw the portraits of the Fuhrer and closed them up again. I watched hours of the grainy black and white films as he narrated in his apartment in Cambridge.

DOMINIONISTS AND RECONSTRUCTIONISTS

The Reconstructionist movement, founded in 1973 by Rousas Rushdooney, is the intellectual foundation for the most politically active element within the Christian Right. Rushdooney's 1,600 page three-volume work, Institutes of Biblical Law, argued that American society should be governed according to the Biblical precepts in the Ten Commandments. He wrote that the elect, like Adam and Noah, were given dominion over the earth by God and must subdue the earth, along with all non-believers, so the Messiah could return.



http://www.theocracywatch.org/chris_hedges_nov24_04.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. My opinion is
Edited on Sat Oct-21-06 10:19 AM by Poppyseedman
This movement is a farce.

Dominionists and reconstructionist are a very small minority of the religious right. The true believers numbers are very, very small.

Every thread this gets discussed I ask:

  • How does this movement achieves it's objectives within the framework of our federal government and state rights?

  • How many RW religious right adherents will be willing to give up their "God given" individual rights to live under Biblical Law? Probably few to none?

  • What military will force us to live under Bibicial law? The US military? Dream on.

  • What state goverment will allow a "Dominionists" federal government to supersede their state governments?
    Foot tapping............waiting, waiting, waiting, waiting


We are not remotely modeled after Germany that allowed Nazism to rise so that comparision is baseless.

We have separation of government powers, a civilian run military, individual and state rights.

It's a nice way to pimp for money and a great fear mongering tool
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. watching christain tv programs
Edited on Sat Oct-21-06 10:49 AM by cyclezealot
mainstream rightist TV christains' talk of Armageddon and the role of stopping the Russia/Iran alliance. They support Bush's "crusade in Iraq." Then look at Faith based funding of social programs , Prayer in Schools, school vouchers. Grover Nyquist's plan to drown the government in a bathtub; and Norquist is a fundie.
No grounds for suspicion. I think there is .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. May I suggest you actually read the
Faith based initiatives regulations.

Though I agree the concept is controversial at face value, by actually reading the regulations, you might not be so paranoid about them.

I took the time to read them and about 60 % of what you have hear, read, believe about the program is propaganda.

Prayer in Schools? What prayer in schools? School vouchers? If your kid was stuck in a crappy school filled of violence you might change your tune.

These are preludes to a theocracy rammed down our throats? Come on. Get real.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. just released.
News Flash: Private schools test scores lower than public schools. Think it good for your kids to go to an evangilical school and use Jesus' abacus as a teaching aid. I suggest you go to an evangalical school and check out their text books. I have.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Link please.
private schools and evangelical schools are too different animals. Are they not in many cases?

Voucher do work in both
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cyclezealot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. my non encyclopedic brain does not categorize all media stories.
Not sure this is the source of Newspaper reports about Private/public performance, I definitely recall reading this past Spring. Not even sure where I read it , BUT I did. Maybe this is the link. ?

http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=18761

Regarding others responses about Dominists, maybe all there goals will be impossible; but, I know even their more do-able agenda is something I choose to not live under.
Neutralizing 'Private School Effect'

The Lubienskis--who controlled for socioeconomic status, ethnicity, gender, disability, English proficiency, and school location, and then grouped students with similar characteristics--compared performance by students in Catholic, Lutheran, conservative Christian, other private schools, and charter schools to average public school achievement.

According to their findings, public schools significantly outscored Catholic schools in both fourth and eighth grade, and Lutheran schools outperformed all private school types. Charter schools performed slightly lower than public schools at the fourth-grade level, but slightly higher at the eighth-grade level.

Chris Lubienski pointed out the findings have limitations but indicate the issue needs further research and attention.

"We think the data and analysis are significant enough to point researchers and policymakers to the need to check their assumptions on this issue," Chris Lubienski said. "Also, we think this points to the need for further study using a variety of datasets and methodological approaches, also looking at different subjects and grade levels."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Well, the answer to your first question is that the Supreme court and the
Federal courts have been packed with members of these very Dominionist groups. They have already begun to achieve their objectives by installing Dubya.
The US military is being deliberately destroyed. They are building their own, the Marines might be their target branch since they have been heavily infiltrated with reconstructionists.
There are millions who THINK they want to give up their individual rights for biblical rights, it won't be til after those rights are gone that they realize it was a bad trade.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. Federal courts packed with Dominionist judges ???
You want me to believe that in only 6 years of Dubya reign and rule he has appointed enough Dominionist Federal judges to force a theocracy on us. You also want me to believe the democrats on the Judicial committee are also part of the plan to allow Dominionist Federal judges to be confirmed? There are hundreds of Federal judges appointed by Clinton who are no were close to retiring

Your second statement about the Marine Corp is ludicrous.

You may think MILLIONS of Christians will easily give up their individual rights for biblical rights, but to think that, you would have to assume them to be basically mindless idiots, which I agree some are, but millions aren't.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. Second point: Supreme court
The SCOTUS has currently five Catholic and two Jewish members

If you know anything about the Dominionists and reconstructionist movement, it is strictly a Calvinist based theology. I think the Catholic Church would not approve of a Calvinist based US theocracy.

Any attempt to install a Dominionists and reconstructionist theocracy would be vigilantly opposed by SCOTUS.

Even if the Dominionists got all four other seats, which I doubt will ever happen we will always have a Jewish member on the court. Your deep concerns are not based on reality.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Land Shark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Not many will, "in the name of" Dominionism, but will in different name
or label. THe Military Commissions Act purports to invalidate core rights of people, including human rights. Not in the name of Dominion, but in the name of fighting terror.

All of the pieces could be accomplished in the name of something else. The final piece is the biblical morality. Well, one can imagine, at least, the rise of such a possibility (given the inordinate power of the right wing) given the sex and pedophilia scandals presently gripping Washington DC.

But I agree none of these things would happen right now in the express name of Dominion. But the parts might all come in the name of different things. and maybe, those varying motivations are what motivates Dominionists anyway. ?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. About our government structure....

Hitler made himself into a dictator and the SS was known to be ruthless in dealing with his opponents. The Bush Cabal is also known to be ruthless, only in a more covert way.

What happens if the idea begins to spread throughout the Religious Right that our government in their opinion, as conceived by the founding fathers, was based on satanic freemasonry ideas and that it should be strategically abolished?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Let me understand this correctly:
The religious right believes in the idea that founding fathers based the Declaration of Independence, The Constitution, Bill of Rights on satanic freemasonry ideas and because of the following 225 years of progress they should overthrow the government to embrace a theocracy?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Possibly because of propaganda like this....

http://www.scarletandthebeast.com/william%20morgan.htm

Apparently 9-11 is a significant date in freemasonic history (Morgan abduction), and some evangelists may be using this as propaganda to condemn freemasons. Ever notice how many in the religious right treat 9-11 as a significantly holy event?

"Jesus said to the evangelical Philadelphia Church (which some Bible scholars believe is headquartered in America), “Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.”

In Greek, the phrase “worship before thy feet,” can be translated, “to prostrate oneself in homage.” Did Freemasonry submit to the preaching of the gospel of Jesus Christ following the Morgan Affair? Did Masons come and worship before the feet of evangelicals? Charles G. Finney gives the answer, which can be read in more detail on page 179 in his book:


Before the publishing of Morgan’s book, the Baptist denomination…had been greatly carried away by Freemasonry. A large proportion of its eldership and membership were Freemasons. A considerable number of ministers and members of other branches of the Christian Church had also fallen into the snare. The murder of Wm. Morgan and the publication of Masonry…broke upon the churches…like a clap of thunder from a clear sky. The facts were such, the revelations were so clear, that the Baptist denomination backed down, and took the lead in renouncing and denouncing the institution. Their elders and associated churches, almost universally, passed resolutions disfellowshipping adhering Masons… Now it is worthy of all consideration and remembrance, that God set the seal of His approbation upon the action taken by those churches at that time, by pouring out His Spirit upon them.

Great revivals immediately followed…In 1830 the greatest revival spread over this <land> that had ever been known in this or any other country."

...

"Truly in America was headquartered the prophetic Philadelphia Church. But alas, since the end of WWII, America has lost its goodness, and Christians have turned lukewarm toward our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ!

This was the plan of Freemasonry. The EPILOG of Finney’s book, entitled “Freemasonry’s Retaliation Against the Church,” documents that in 1889 a world council of Masons met in Paris, France to plan a strategy to weaken the Church in America. Their plan was to turn the Church “materialistic.” Thirteen years later, in the year 1913, Freemasonry was ready to infiltrate the Church. The date set was exactly 100 years after the 1826 Morgan Affair. During the month of January 1926, Freemasonry gave the order for every Mason in America to join a local church and “liberalize it, modernize it and render it aggressive and efficient” for Masonic use."


This may also explain much of the anger towards the French.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. I read Rushdooney.
The works Hedge alludes to. I didn't much like North, and found his works unnecessary.

I don't think Hedges actually read Rushdooney.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
3. the christofascists will be the end of America
and indeed the end of our species, if they have their way

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Paranoid Pessimist Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
7. I call them "God's Gestapo". They would willingly kill
. . . anyone who disagrees with them. They want the privilege to punish sin themselves, never mind all that "Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord" crap. Their self-righteous hatred and hostility put every single one of us at real physical risk. The whole point of the recent legislation to allow torture and habeas corpus free grab-up is not to get terrorists, but to set the precedents and create the institutions to get ... us. Do I exaggerate? I hope but don't think so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Poppyseedman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Wow, you really are "Paranoid Pessimist"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Paranoid Pessimist Donating Member (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. But I hope I'm wrong and that things aren't as bad as I think.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
12. I think what we're looking at is an unholy alliance between our Corporate
Rulers and your typical white male 'dominationist' PREACHERS who have always been with us, including all the detritus of Europe's religious wars--the Cromwellians, the Puritans, the inquisitionists, the witchburners, who got dumped on these shores, and whose origins are traceable way back to the 5th Century AD (when Christianity took a bad turn toward "baptism by the sword"). The war profiteering corporate news monopolies have provided these male preachers with a BIG TRUMPET to promote their views, way out of proportion to the number of people they represent or control, in service to the global corporate predators whose main enemy is democracy.

Democracy means, for instance, protection of the environment, regulation of corporate misconduct and monopolistic practices, fairness to workers, and fair taxation for the common good. These are things that majorities of people universally desire, and implement in governments that are ruled by the people. Corporations, on the other hand, are kingdoms with dictatorial rule in service to the profit of a few. Their "democratic" trappings (votes of the shareholders, for instance) are a farce, as everybody knows. The top dogs rule. Everybody else is an expendable peon. But not to the government and to the country, in a democracy. In a democracy, everyone is equal, and "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights." Democracy and Corporate Rule are very much at odds. In fact, the Corporate Rulers are AT WAR with democracy--and most especially with American democracy since we are the richest, strongest nation on earth. We, the people, of the U.S., are at the vortex of this evil--out-of-control corporate power. The country (in our case, the states) charter these corporations theoretically to perform some common good--products, services, construction, extraction and marketing of resources, invention, etc.--but these consortiums of businesspeople have gotten way, way out of control, have acquired the rights of citizens, and permanent life, which means that they can accumulate vast wealth, property and power, which they are using for the narrow purpose of greatly enriching the few at the expense of everything and everyone else. They have also gone global, and move their operations and assets all over the world, roaming the world for the cheapest labor and the most exploitable resources. They may once have provided us with jobs--the least they can do, for use of our resources and commonly funded infrastructure. But they no longer do even that.

The Founders of our Republic NEVER INTENDED for business corporations to have this inordinate power. It was acquired late in the 19th century--the era of the Robber Barons--and not even the Great Depression (--caused by massive capitalist profiteering and mismanagement) resulted in curtailment of corporate power. WW II addicted these Corporate Rulers to enormous government welfare, and they have grown into monstrous entities, many in the war industries, who need periodic wars in order to suck more blood out of the peoples' government.

How could they do that--after, say, the Vietnam experience? Two million people slaughtered in Southeast Asia, and billions and billions of dollars expended--for what? The answer to that is, for war profiteers. And here they are again, in Iraq. For what? Mainly for war profiteers; also for global corporate predator oil giants.

America learned that lesson in Vietnam--not to feed the corporate monster with the blood of the innocent. So how did the Corporate Rulers get around--stifle, marginalize-- that lesson? (They didn't undo the lesson. 56% of the American people opposed the Iraq war from the beginning--Feb. '03, before the invasion--that is, before all the lies were exposed--and they were no doubt THINKING OF Vietnam, of the president acquiring too much power to make war, and what a disaster that can be.)

Part of how they stifled or marginalized the lesson of Vietnam is this unholy--and diabolically brilliant--alliance of the corporate monsters with MINORITY 'christian' sects and their white male preachers. But that isn't the whole story. And this part of it is something that is VERY IMPORTANT for all of us to understand. This is neither the "rise of the christian right" nor the "rise of fascism in the U.S." Do you see any Nazi youth marching around sieg heiling Bush? Do you see any but the "usual suspects"--the stupid, the gullible, the exploited, the easily manipulable--worshiping at the feet of these pasty white, preacherman slugs, fattened on the donations of the ignorant? And what do the polls tell us? A THIRTY PERCENT approval rating for Bush (and even less--18%--for the Bushite Congress), despite relentless 24/7 corporate propaganda, fearmongering and trumpeting of rightwing views, by the war profiteering corporate news monopolies.

The "rise of christian right" is PHONY. It is an ILLUSION spun by the war profiteering corporate news monopolies. This same MINORITY 'christian' right, that has always been with us, has been given a BIG TRUMPET to promulgate their views WAY OUT OF PROPORTION to their actual numbers. And I believe that the "rise of fascism in the U.S." is similarly phony. Americans don't buy it. And they don't buy it in BIG NUMBERS. And they have NEVER bought it.

I am in fact amazed at how little the American people have bought this crap from Bush and the 'christian' right--given the relentless propaganda. However, the ILLUSION of the ascendancy of the 'christian right' is quite dangerous in this respect: it disempowers and demoralizes the majority. It has succeeded in making too many people think that OTHER Americans have gone nuts, and that a majority of OTHER Americans voted for a second Bush term. The Corporate Rulers and the MINORITY 'christian right' have made a third alliance and that is with the BUSHITE CROOKS--Tom Delay and Bob Ney (abetted by corporate 'Democrats' like Christopher Dodd)--who wrote the "Help America Vote Act," a $3.9 billion electronic voting boondoggle, which resulted, in the space of two years--2002-2004--in the complete conversion of the American voting system to electronic voting machines, run on TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code, owned and controlled mostly by two Bushite corporations, and they are...

DIEBOLD: Until recently, headed by Wally O'Dell, a Bush-Cheney campaign chair and major fundraiser (a Bush "Pioneer," right up there with Ken Lay), who promised in writing to "deliver Ohio's electoral votes to Bush-Cheney in 2004"; and

ES&S: A spinoff of Diebold (similar computer architecture), initially funded by rightwing billionaire Howard Ahmanson, who also gave one million dollars to the extremist 'christian' Chalcedon Foundation (which touts the death penalty for homosexuals, among other things). Diebold and ES&S have an incestuous relationship; they are run by two brothers, Bob and Todd Urosevich.

These are the people who "counted" 80% of the nation's votes in 2004, under a veil of corporate secrecy.

Also, SEQUOIA: The third major election theft industry player, which hired Republican Bill Jones, former Calif Secretary of State, and his chief aide, Alfie Charles, to peddle their machines--in an outstanding example of one of the highly corrupt practices that HAVA fosters-- "revolving door" employment--in addition to lavish lobbying, corporate secrecy, corporate lawyers writing our election laws, and the heady power of multi-million dollar electronics contracts in government.

Please do notice the rightwing political and RELIGIOUS connections of these corporations that are now "counting" all our votes.

So what we have here is the enforcement of an ILLUSION: the illusion of Bush's power, which is actually illegitimate power--based on completely non-transparent vote counting, with secretly programmed, high speed machines, that are not only controlled by rightwing-headed corporations, but that have proven to be extremely insecure and insider hackable. And other ILLUSIONS: the illusion of the legitimacy of Congress--most of whose members are also (s)elected by Diebold/ES&S)-- which has passed bills, such as the recent torture and suspension of habeas corpus bill, that are anathema to democracy; and the illusion of "the rise of the 'christian' right, which, in fact, is still a small minority and has been a small minority ALL ALONG.

Oil corporations.
War profiteers.
Other global corporate predators.
The war profiteering corporate news monopolies (mega-corporations all with ties to the war industry).
Right-wing run electronic voting corporations.
'Christian' right preacher men, and the more dimwitted members of their followings.

How many actual people do you think the above list represents? Give the 'christian right' say 20% of the population. Add 10%, all the CEOs and other super-rich fascists, and a few of their lesser rich peons. Bush's current, rock-bottom support.

If the Corporate Rulers are manipulating the voting results--which they are now, as of 2004, fully capable of doing undetectably--why aren't they manipulating the public opinion poll numbers? How is it that we know that about 70% of the American people oppose Bush (AND every major Bush policy)?

Because Bush isn't the point. Bush is just a marker, a place-holder, a puppet of the Corporate Rulers. And what this is all about is NOT the Nazification of America. That is a bugaboo. It is NOT the 'christian' right and fascism that are the danger. It is CORPORATIZATION. Our Corporate Rulers don't give a crap about Christian values. They have merely sold a weird off-shoot of Christianity--the ever-with-us Puritan witchburners--as the REASON the vote totals come out so WEIRDLY, seemingly in favor of massive looting of our federal treasury, mass murder in Iraq, torture, the bankruptcy bill, skyrocketing medical costs, gas gouging, multiple tax cuts for the super-rich, impoverishment of the middle class, and all the rest.

It is an ILLUSION.

Now, I am the last person on earth to downplay the menace of repressive, dominationist, rightwing religion. Please know this. It is, and always will be, a danger to democracy, and to the freedom and the progress of the human race. And I don't minimize the horror of brainwashing. Nor am I blind to the ways that Bushite/Reaganite Republicans and their white 'christian' preacherman allies have insinuated themselves into public venues, such as our school system and our election boards, in a quite methodical--not to mention well-funded--manner. It's just that I think their NUMBERS are very exaggerated--by the BIG TRUMPET that the corporate news monopolies have given them, and by the huge funding behind them.

The torture and suspension of habeas corpus bill is not a laughing matter. It is real. And Bush's--or some other tyrant's--ability to enforce it is a real power. I would never minimize the danger, or the horror, of this bill. But I think that maybe even that bill is either, 1) a short of shadowplay--part of a deal to immunize Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld for past crimes, in order to convince them to step aside; or, 2) possibly a worse game of investing our FUTURE Corporate Ruler president--likely a Democrat--with sufficient executive power to forestall huge protests, such as the one in Seattle in 1999, against the global corporate predators who are really running things. (--that protest was against unfair, undemocratic globalization, trade deals that permit the proliferation of sweatshops worldwide, the destruction of the environment (and end of the planet?), and other evils; it was 50,000 strong, and it was against CLINTON, not Bush. Clinton!)

Or both may be true--removal of the Bush Junta (and immunization for their worst crimes), AND an enhancement of executive powers for the purposes of continued Corporate Rule.

I do think the snapback to Corporate Rule may be--or, in any case, may SEEM--more benign than Bushite rule. They've hit us with the worst possible president ever, and the worst regime--a fascist junta, really. Now maybe we'll be grateful for MERE Corporate Rule.

You see, I think this 'christian' right thing is very cynical. Its hypocrisy is off the charts. We have never seen anything more hypocritical in the history of humankind. And, once its usefulness to the Corporate Rulers is over, it will go away. Mark my words. The corporate news monopolies--as long as it suits them--will be talking about the "new secularism" or some other nonsense. (Don't believe ANYTHING they say. This Bushite pedophile scandal? All manipulation, in my opinion. When did the corporate news monopolies EVER focus on Bushite wrong-doing in this way? Outing CIA agents. Treason. Massive theft in Iraq. Genocide in Iraq. Torture of innocents. Unbelievable lack of accountability on every front. And they choose an OLD child molestation scandal to throw at the Bushites four weeks before the midterms? I mean, come on.)

And if this is the scenario that is being played out--the return of Corporate Rule, to a grateful nation--what we need to look out for are the mechanisms of power by which the Corporate Rulers are STILL manipulating us. And primary among them is SECRET CORPORATE CONTROL OF THE VOTE COUNT. You wonder what accounts for the Democratic Party leadership's MIND-BOGGLING silence about Bushite corporations 'counting' all our votes with TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code? This is why. It was not so much a Bushite coup as it was a CORPORATE coup.

Why would the Corporate Rulers dump Bush and the Bushites? They've become bad for business. Grave problems of the Chinese and the Saudis owning the paper on our massive debt. Full scale revolt against US Corporate Rule in South America. (The Bushites have "lost" South America, as they say. Much too much democracy happening there.) We're going to have to negotiate for, rather than steal, oil--due to the Bushites' ineptness. (China holding our paper means that we CANNOT invade Iran--which supplies much of China's oil. The Chinese could send the dollar into a nosedive tomorrow.) Etc. Etc. And I think maybe some truly loyal folks in the military/intelligence communities are also involved in ousting Bush & Co. (They likely know where "the bodies are buried"--I mean, besides the 600,000 or so that we know about in Iraq.)

In summary: It's not the 'christians' but rather the CORPORATIONS that the REAL menace to democracy. We need to bust these corporations, and bust them good--something we cannot do until we restore our right to vote.

As to that, ordinary Americans are taking the matter into their own hands, and are voting by ABSENTEE BALLOT in massive numbers this fall. Because they DON'T TRUST the machines. We should get behind this widespread, but diffuse, protest of millions of voters--and provide it with some leadership and focus. The massive Absentee Ballot voting (--up to 50% to 60% of the vote in some places) can give election reformers CLOUT in demanding a return to transparent, verifiable vote counting, in local/state venues--the most hopeful venues for reform. The Diebold II Congress--even if it's full of apparent Democrats--is not going to reform it. Why should they? They owe their power to Diebold/ES&S, and the Corporate Cabal behind them, and not to us.

Pressure on local/state election officials. That's the path back to democracy. Step one, anyway.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. How should fascists be treated?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
historian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 08:12 PM
Response to Original message
19. there is a similarity
If you define fascism as the state superseding the individual then id say both are one and the same. Look at the taliban and look as what the christian right is doing - destroying or trying to destroy everyone who doesnt succumb or agree with them. Besides that, a good look at history about the catholic church should convince anyone that there is no difference between religious or political fascism - all lead to the same thing - tyranny. Now with the constitution in shreds we are almost there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-21-06 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
22. "When fascism comes to America..."
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." -Sinclair Lewis

He was right. Dammit, he was right! And we were to oblivious too notice.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC