Study Shows Why gop Freaked Over Michael J Fox Ad

[Rose Siding]

The Michael J. Fox Effect
A new national study revealed that voters' support for stem cell research "increased after they viewed an ad featuring Michael J. Fox in which he expresses his support for candidates who are in favor of stem cell research."

Key finding: "Republicans who indicated that they were voting for a Republican candidate decreased by 10% after viewing the ad (77% to 67%). Independents planning to vote for Democrats increased by 10%, from 39% to 49%."

Real-time responses of those who participated in the survey are also available. Very interesting.

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2006/10/26/the_michael_j_fox_effect.html

:wow:

[babylonsister]

1. Then we need a lot more ads like this!

:D Thanks, Rose, and thank you, Michael J. Fox!

[niceypoo]

58. And Thank you Rush you fat assed moron!

for not being able to control yourself and pushing it out into the national spotlight!!!

[jeff30997]

59. Hehehe...

Yeah,thanks Rush!

[Wise Child]

85. Thanks Rush,

for helping McCalskill get elected in your home state!

[smb]

110. The Side Effects of OxyContin Abuse

[Clark2008]

114. Why is Disco Duck running through my head now?

:7

[19jet54]

125. New Dease...

I think nature & history needs a new terminal disease, call it "Rush" after it's first victim? No plot, just bad Karma justly applied.

[savemefromdumbya]

88. not so fast, the gop are all supporting STEM CELLS now

even gop gov Ehrlich w he has just put a flier out supporting!

[stlsaxman]

102. McCaskill has some GREAT ads running these days!

Check out the "Missouri Voices" series on YouTube. Saw one on the air yesterday and it made me jump and scream "YES!!!!"

:woohoo:


http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Claire+McCaskill&search=Search

[Crankie Avalon]

2. So, it was too attuned to basic human decency...

...no wonder the repukes hate it!

[Tesla]

7. Who could hate Michael J Fox, I even liked him when he played a PUKE!!

Alex P was sooo cute!!!

[SouthernBelle82]

10. Oh yes

I've seen reruns of the show and he was the best. :) I became a tennibopper with him in the "Back to the Future" series.

[Uncle Joe]

40. You may have touched on to an emotional cord

that resonates with conservatives, in their mind he was Alex Keaton, a conservative son to liberal parents from "Family Ties", he was one of them.

[RaleighNCDUer]

42. Further affirmation that they can't tell fiction from reality. nt

[Uncle Joe]

44. I believe consciously, they are aware

Michael J. Fox is not Alex Keaton, but emotionally, or in their subconscious it's hard to put a Hollywood liberal label on him because of that role.

[Jackpine Radical]

76. Don't be so sure they can tell the difference...they seem to buy everything

ELSE they see on TV. They probly think it really is Alex.

[immoderate]

112. I agree.

There must be some, at least, who will go with what Alex says.

--IMM

[Momgonepostal]

3. Very interesting!

That shows how effective a great ad can be. Recommended.

[Botany]

4. and Rush doesn't do anything without being told.

What a bunch of creeps.

[LiberalFighter]

71. I hope more people voting Democratic after watching Windbag

ridiculing Fox with his flopping

[sandyd921]

87. So much for the idea that Rove

is a brilliant political tactician. :rofl:

[SouthernBelle82]

5. So this tells all

Very interesting and explains a lot. Do they say why Fox appeals to people?

[Caoimhe]

13. I think he appeals to so many folks

because he not only is/was a great actor, but his face and personality is so honest. We were frustrated when his characters were, we were happy when his characters were. And as a person he comes across as the same way.

His face is easily recognized by MANY in different age groups, but I think particularly for those of us in our 30's and 40's who grew up with him. He always felt like a brother or a good friend to us. Silly, how our perceptions work.

[civildisoBDence]

43. He's very non-threatening, forever young, with not the first inkling

of pride or scandal. The Parkinsons adds a degree of sympathy, but also shows his courage and class.

The way he handled Limbaugh (basically said it's sad how little some people know about PD meds) has only added to his appeal.

Newsprism

[TheMadMonk]

65. And even now, he is very child like in appearance.

[lcordero2]

6. !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wonder if having Muhammad Ali in the same ad would have helped

[SaveElmer]

8. He is coming to Virginia next week...for an event

With Jim Webb...just got the notice about it!

I also heard he will be doing an ad for Webb as well...hope that is true!

[CTyankee]

39. Great! Be sure to post all about it. With pix if you get them!

I love the way Michael is just keeping on. Betcha Rush will keep his mouth shut about the next ad Michael does. Mark my words. Rush will be Silent Sam about Fox from here on out.

[peaches2003]

69. No, he won't

Rush got exactly what he wanted. He got the religious freaks in an uproar which is what Rove needed to get them to vote and he got his disgusting face in the news again. That's all he cares about. With every ad he will do it over and over.

[CTyankee]

104. I hope you are right. Then he'll lose even MORE of his audience

He's been on the losing end of listeners with his nasty stuff. If he continues to go after Fox and others, he'll become even more detested. His fanatical followers won't be able to save him.

All this will catch up to him...

[Ian David]

9. The professor's plan is working, Marty!

Now, we have to get back into The Time Machine and save President Olbermann in 2022!

[Tesla]

11. haha

I wish this was just a glitch in a time machine!!

[muntrv]

74. Fox should do to Rush what Marty did to Biff and his car.

[Clark2008]

115. Rush is already full of shit.

:rofl:

[NotGivingUp]

117. good one!

[skypilot]

12. Someone should come up with an ad...

...stating that candidates who are against stem cell research are supported by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, and then work in footage of Limbaugh making fun of Michael J. Fox. It would be interesting to see what the percentages would look like after that.

[Tesla]

15. How about a spot on one of the Prime Time shows about the illness of Parkinson's

and how it affects people afflicted....

[Ian David]

20. Oh, that's perfect. Show Limbaugh thrashing his arms around

as he pantomimes his sick imitation of Michael J. Fox.

And make sure, that of Limbaugh's apology, you play the part where he says, "I apoligize if I am wrong."

[Felinity]

53. You have a beautiful mind (the thrashing part).

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

If only Chris Farley were still alive to play Rush.

[frogcycle]

79. there's always John Goodman

[Ian David]

82. John Goodman is a dickwad. His House of Blues supports "Murder Music." n/t

[frogcycle]

127. i presume that means

you feel he would be an appropriate choice to play limburger?

or is "dickwad" too high on the evolutionary scale?

maybe if he were a dingleberry?

[riderinthestorm]

14. This issue transcends normal D/R lines.

And it's not negative, it's a "positive" ad (in the sense that it's not an attack ad, it's an informational ad) that focuses on an issue that virtually everyone can relate to.

[Rose Siding]

17. A positive, informational ad -Strongly stated

What a concept. Wouldn't it be swell if that caught on?

[cui bono]

16. The stupid Limpball attacks can't have helped them, expecially with

that initial response.

Can you believe my local news station in Los Angeles as of yesterday STILL said that he apologized for his comments.

[Gregorian]

18. REPUBLICANS ARE FEARFUL.

When Ashcroft came on the Daily Show, it hit me like a ton of bricks. He was visibly disturbed by the loud music they have during commercial breaks. He even said something demonstrable about it. Then I recalled the draping of naked statues.

And the drug war was not something implemented by Democrats. That was fear based. Terrorism- Fear based. Yellow ribbons? And I'll even go as far as to say the idiot who started the Baby on Board signs was a fearful little republican.

I would wager that Michael Fox freaked them out. Scared them. Stem cells are scary. Evolution- scary.

So, we have a big clue here. Say things that are meaningful to Democrats, and SOOTHING TO REPUBLICANS. And we'll win their hearts.

[glitch]

19. Very much so. Take a close look at individual Republicans you know

and their fear jumps out at you. As Yogi Berra said "It's amazing what you see when you look."

[Gregorian]

32. I grew up in a town where there were no republicans.

I have lived my entire life devoid of republicans. Then came Bush. What an awakening that was. The first Bush was sick. Reagan was a goon. I knew republicans existed. But not in my personal life. And to this day I do not know a republican. I now look back on my early years with a sense of being very fortunate. But it left me gaping when I realized just who I am surrounded by.

So your post is totally accurate. I am now looking around. I am sickened by what I see. My 82 year old dad and I talk about this. And his comment is that it's better to know than to not know, even though it's difficult.

I feel very lucky. I must have grown up in a quirk. Palo Alto is what it was. Progressive as they get.

[glitch]

38. I have a brother who is a republican, and he married a republican.

All the rest of my family are democrats. My republican brother has always been fearful, practically from birth. Both he and his wife are the most fearful people I know, but I know other republicans who also live with an unusual (irrational to me but perhaps not to them) amount of fear. I think at one point before Reagan you could be an unfearful republican, but they have been weening their party of that type ever since him. Honing that part of the Nixon legacy which fed and fostered fear among their flock. Only the truly fearful remain republican at this point, IMO.

I was telling my 76 year old mom the other day I wished I could go back in time and hug these people as children, somehow make them feel more secure and less resentful about life.

[PADemD]

77. Where did you live?

[Zambero]

67. Speaking of scary

The sound of Ashcroft's insipid crooning is enough to send ANYONE fleeing in terror!

[longship]

21. Let's understand this clearly--a 10 point swing is HUGH1111

Do you realize how many more House seats that might mean? Do you realize how many Senate seats that would be? This is on top of the recent Gallup poll which indicated that 22% of voters said that their vote could be effected by the Foley scandal.

Does anybody think that many of these people are going to be switching their votes to the Repuke side? No. The Dems are going to get the vast majority of these switched votes.

The dynamics of this year's election is amazing me. Things are really getting crazy. The electorate is positively pissed at ChimpCo and things are going to get positively ugly for the GOP in the next two weeks.

Please go to my journal for other observations about what's happening.

All you can eat, baby!

Men "The Master" Nguyen

[ArmchairMeme]

22. Fox lives reality

Limbaugh and other republicans have such difficulty recognizing reality when appears in front of them.

[DeepModem Mom]

23. K&R!

[hedgehog]

24. Here's the best part - if Rush had kept his mouth shut, the ad

would never have received the national exposure it has.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

36. Heh.

You just used "Rush" and "keep his mouth shut" in the same sentence without including the words "ought to."

:evilgrin:

[blondeatlast]

46. Ya gotta love it--just like the Swiftboat ads, only this time it's for the good! nt

[smb]

111. LOL

if Rush had kept his mouth shut, the ad would never have received the national exposure it has.

Yeah, and if Rush had personally captured Osama, he could have given Shrub a 10-point bump in the polls. The one is as likely as the other.

[Fly by night]

25. How do we get a MJFox ad shown in Tennessee? NOW!!

The Repukes are filling the airwaves with racist/sexist shit against Harold Ford. I, for one, would love to see Fox's (sad to say) shivering and shimmering image on our TV stations nonstop for the next two weeks. How can we get this to happen? Ford also supports stem-cell research -- who do we need to speak with, appeal to?

[wryter2000]

26. Love ya, MJ

He's always been the best, and now he's proving it all over again.

Did you hear what his response to Rush was? If I'm repeating what Momma said this morning correctly, it was something like "Some people don't understand the disease and how the medicine works." True class. Something the likes of Limbaugh will never understand.

:applause:

[fishnfla]

27. This issue is a slam dunk for us

props to rush for the attention.
every american knows someone who could benefit from stem cell research

[frogcycle]

81. but they use th e"fear campaign" in this issues too

they can't make a legitimate case against using blastocysts that would otherwise be discarded. so they come up with the nonsense that "if you give them an inch they'll take a mile" and human cloning will be right around the corner.

we need someone to do an ad just saying "lets separate fact from fiction on this issue" and make it clear to the remaining swayable voters that stem cell research is only that. there is no downside and potentially huge upside, and the idealogues are trying to use it to prevent potentially their parents, or themselves, from having a cure for alzheimers, or parkinsons, etc.

close with "these people are trying to impose their narrow-minded bigotry on you - just like the jihadis"

[twilight_sailing]

28. Xander, "Vampires are real. A lot of them live in Sunnydale,"

OZ, "Actually, that explains a lot."

[On the Road]

29. Are the Cable Talk Shows Covering This Controversy?

Think of the Swiftboat ads. Comparatively few people saw the initial ads. Most of the impact was from rescreenings and discussion on cable.

One can only hope that something similar happens with the Michael J Fox/Rush Limbaugh clips.

[rodeodance]

30. and Rush L CRIES====the DEMAS are exploiting MJF (and Reeves)

[Mythsaje]

33. Right...

because it's just so easy to exploit rich, famous people.

[rodeodance]

31. today from Rushy:

i posted this a bit earlier in GP

Thu Oct-26-06 12:57 PM
Original message
It has been a long time since I have listened to an extended



segment of Rush L.----and will be long time again-if ever.

But i wanted to know what he is saying about Micheal J Fox and about EStem research.
As you well, Rush is good at defecting his file comments and blaming someone else.
I came in late to his radio show so don't know what was said prior to this:
He went into an extended monologue about how anyone has the right to saying anything---even if they are wrong-even MJF!
And the Dems do not want what he says challenged (rush forgets his comments about saying MJF was faking it, etc etc)---that the Media and Dems do not want people like Rush challenging them.
Then he went into how there is absolutely nothing going on in stem reseach that gives promise to people.--then how no private money into reseach--but Dems and media want taxpayers to fund the research. The Media and Dems are the culprits in his narritive
He said he would let the people decide if MJF was faking it (said something about first he on his meds, then off his meds. etc etc). He says nothing about how strong the side effects of Parkinson disease medications are and that people have try different drugs, go off for while etc ect.
Well, anyway he mentioned Cloney also, but I did not catch what he said.
"Glory Days"

[BootinUp]

34. Why would people invest in something

they think the fundies are going to have outlawed?

[corkhead]

37. atta boy Rush, keep it in the news 12 more days

he did for stem cell research what he did for the swiftboaters back in 04. Brought it to the national Psyche. a small ad buy in Missouri paid back BIG dividends! Keep it up Rush!!! :rofl:

[GoddessOfGuinness]

45. I'm hoping stem cell research will lead to a cure for assoholism

Then Rush can be cured.

[Uncle Joe]

47. I don't know if that many stem cells exist?

:shrug:

[progressoid]

35. would be nice if Rush's numbers went down 10% too

[TheCowsCameHome]

41. Rush stepped in doo-doo, and instead of scraping it off he ate it

He is a sick bastard. He's basically saying any resaeach to improve the health of Americans is a waste of time as long as HE doesn't approve it.

Keep it up, you fat pig. Your numbers are going down faster than the GOP's.

[Canuckistanian]

48. Bring on your next stupid move, Rush!

Your little stunt just DECREASED your buddy's chance to escape the coming impeachment.

[laugle]

49. RUSH LIMBALLS is a DRUG ADDLED GAS BAG!!!

I feel better now!!! Thanks for the post!!

[Warren DeMontague]

50. NOW can we finally lay to rest this bullshit saw about the all-powerful "values voter"?

Time for us to get a spine with regards to personal privacy, reproductive, separation of church and state, first amendment, drug war and end-of-life issues.

[blondeatlast]

51. Let's wait just a very wee bit longer...

Like when WE control the House (and my fingers to God's ears, Senate, please?) and we can

Set the agenda.

Just a couple more weeks--then it's time to boss our representatives around!

[Warren DeMontague]

52. I agree. But I think the 'conventional wisdom' about where the votes lie-

the kind of nonsense which says we have to "court" religious right whackjobs, "temper" our commitments to personal privacy, reproductive or gay rights, that kind of thing...

I think that "conventional wisdom" is dead wrong. One, I don't think there are really as many of these glassy-eyed fundy "values voters" as we've been led to believe, and Two, the ones that exist are not in play- certainly not by us just acting all wishy-washy on a woman's right to choose or whether or not the Birth Control Pill should remain legal.

Rather, I think there are millions of socially libertarian voters who are just waiting for ONE party to stand up strong for the right of adult citizens to make their own damn decisions about their own bodies and lives. Those people are in play. Even GOP analysts worry that the long-term fissure in the GOP is between the far right Christian conservatives and the Libertarian wing. The way to appeal to all those voters is to adopt a strong socially libertarian agenda. The way to win the few "heartland values voters" that may actually be in play (and capture some greens on the way) is to support a SPHC system and a liveable minimum wage, among other things.

But this is long-term planning stuff. I don't expect anyone who hasn't already to adopt these agendas wholesale before the election- although I do think our candidates would do well to remember the lesson of Terri Schiavo (that there is a far stronger "leave me alone" streak than the conventional wisdom has allowed for) and proceed accordingly.

[blondeatlast]

54. Well said. I honestly think that the Terri Schiavo case woke an awful

lot of "hands-off governing" voters up to what was really going on in the W(rong) Administration.

There's an anti-gay marriage proposition in my state--and it ISN'T going over well with the voters, nor is it drawing reluctant voters to the polls (which is what these props are designed to do, IMHO).

So much to do, so little time, even once we control one or both Houses. But with an awakened, refreshed, and ANGRY electorate, we can undo the damage already done.

I almost feel sorry for the freshman Democrats--they will have an ENORMOUS amount of work to do.

[Warren DeMontague]

55. Ever been in the unfortunate position of having to clean up for an alcoholic

after they've been on a bender?

I have.

That's about the most apt analogy I can come up with for the situation any Democratic Leadership will face after years of GOP control.

[blondeatlast]

57. Very apt. My beloved country has been the victims of W's bender.

It's up to all of us to help clean it up.

Pass the Clorox this way, please.

[Beetwasher]

56. Hell Yeah!

Well said, I agree.

"I don't think there are really as many of these glassy-eyed fundy "values voters" as we've been led to believe,"

Yup, I really think it's mostly a myth to cover election shenanigans by the right. These people miraculously appear in large numbers on election days, then disappear. Funny that.

[Warren DeMontague]

62. Zactly. There's one, and his last name is Diebold.

I always thought it was "interesting" to say the least, how the media immediately started flogging the values voter angle right when questions were coming up about exit polling in the wake of the '04 election.

Hopefully it's not going to be same 'ol, same 'ol this time around...

[19jet54]

63. A little too aggressive for my taste!

First - let me say I was raised in an American Church, served in the Military, Lived in 10 states in America (rural & urban), Have voted all my adult life (never missed one), my parents were there for FDR, Truman & JFK, I was there for M.L. King Jr, for Anti-Vietnam, Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr & detested Clinton/Bush II both. I hate Iraq but support an aggressive stance on terrorist worldwide. I support separation of Church & State, am apposed to abortion but support personal choice, am a strong supporter of personal gun rights(if you don't like guns; next time somebody kicks you ass; don't call a cop), not fond of the gay life but defend their rights equally, support immigration & freedom for all, support "Focus on your own damn family" views, support a social structure that protects the weak & helpless by both government & religious groups (monitored for corruption), and will vote for the man/woman & not just party, I think government & religious empire building should be taken down a notch, support the CIA & Postal Service equally as both good & bad. I think kids with more pimples than pubic hairs have a right to vote, run a website and should be treated with equal respect as long as they do the same.

What I do object to is "in you face GOP or Dem" folks trying to shove "war, lies & crap" my way (piss on my leg and tell me it's raining) & that the Dems(Vietnam) & GOP(Iraq) are both full of shit. What I can tell you is that if you want the support of decent Americans of all colors, faiths, social classes, urban & rural alike is to #1 Care about people, #2 Stop forcing personal agendas of the right & left #3 listen to the majority of folks with common sense #4 drop any hangups of religion stereotypes period #5 I don't trust any of you as far as I can throw you (I can throw you pretty far too)#6 Quit playing angles that make you look like untrustworthy con-artists.

I have not seen a religious leader or politician I trust with a nickle, so I will manage my own money thank you! If you want my opinion, Barak Obama is the first decent guy I have seen in a long while that you don't have to wipe the slime off your hand after meeting him. Try using a little common sense, walking the middle of the road, and unlike Bush, try uniting Americans instead of picking out the differences; the differences are what makes America Great! Just like Gays, I don't like anyone bashing my religion, beliefs or the fact I am a WASP. Freedom is for those who dis-agree with me just as much as those who do.

I'm sure you don't want my opinion, but here it is anyway - Drop the attitude! You can attract more bees with honey than you can with vinegar. Oh yea, Rush Limbaugh is a pig plain & simple and Michael J. Fox is simply trying to do some good. Rush can rot in the hell he believes in, and Fox has my support. I already voted ALL democrat & for 99% women because the GOP & men have things in a current mess - next time I may swing the other way; depends on how it goes! I guess that makes me a wishy-washy, flip-flopper, religious whack-job, liberal and damn proud of it :)

I think most of America is just as complex as I am, and that one-size does not fit all, nor does two (Dems & GOP). Listen, instead of flapping you lips like Rush Bimbo! You just might learn something? I mean no disrespect, but do not wish to be disrespected either. And that is the whole point?

[Warren DeMontague]

84. I'm not sure how my stating my opinion qualifies as "attitude" but when

you do it, it isn't. And I don't know if that was all directed at me, personally, but if it was, I'd really appreciate how, specifically, you think that post was "flapping my lips like Rush Bimbo."

That said, I *am* interested in your opinion. (Welcome to DU, by the way :hi:) ... I agree with much of what you've written. Maybe not the part about "despising" Clinton, but a great deal of the rest.

So here's a couple pointers, to help you along:

You "hate Iraq but support an aggressive stance on terrorist worldwide." by "hate Iraq" I assume you mean the Iraq war. Hey, welcome to the majority of the Democratic party. We ALL support an aggressive stance on terrorism worldwide. Certainly, the leaders of our Party do! We're the ones who have been arguing that Iraq was a distraction and a mistake in the fight against terror.

And funny, isn't it, that so much of it comes directly or indirectly out of our "allies" in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia?

You are "opposed to abortion but support personal choice". That's a pro-choice position. Being pro-choice doesn't mean you like abortion or would get one yourself. It only means you don't think you should legislate the decision for other people. Again, welcome to the position of the majority of the Democratic Party.

You are "a strong supporter of personal gun rights". It may- or may not- come as a surprise to you that most Democrats do NOT want to take your guns away. I certainly don't. While I do think there is altogether far too much gun violence in our society, even leaving personal liberty issues aside, given who we are as a nation I doubt gun control is feasible or would be terribly effective in that regard. I fully support citizens' right to responsible firearm ownership. Beyond that, I do question whether it's necessary for citizens to be able to buy assault weapons at Wal-mart. But that's not a front burner issue for me, and I also am open to persuasion on the issue- given one HUGE caveat. And that is this- I am willing to listen to arguments against, say, the assault weapons ban- but not in a vacuum. It is very hard for me to get worked up about the 'injustice' of someone not being able to hunt deer with a machine gun when we spend $40 Billion a year to put cancer grannies and Willie Nelson in jail for smoking pot. Dig? Or when Alberto Gonzales decides to make the number one FBI priority in Bush's 2nd Term not fighting Terrorism, but fighting adult porn- porn by adults, for adults. (look it up if you don't believe me). In the context of a broad social liberty agenda, I might be more open on things like the Assault weapons ban. But not when we're busy throwing people in jail for nothing more than smoking a joint.

I would ask you who, precisely, is trying to shove "war lies and crap" in your face from the Democratic Party these days? If you're still blaming the Dems for Vietnam, that might be legitimate, although it's worth noting that the truly "in your face" Dems were the ones trying to stop that war (just like we're the ones trying to stop this one) and it's also worth noting that Henry Kissinger and Nixon could have stopped that war in '68 on the same terms they ended up accepting in 1973.

Also, I appreciate you don't like anyone bashing your religion. I don't like anyone bashing my beliefs, either, or trying to imply that I'm not a good American because I hold them. I also don't like people trying to foist creationism or mandatory prayer into my kids' public school classes. I would humbly ask you to point out any examples of this so-called "bashing" that you see (again, welcome to DU!) and beyond that, suggest that maybe -given what you've outlined above about your beliefs- it's not your religion that is being "bashed".

I do agree that we need people who can unite- part of the divisiveness (and the resultant bitterness) has come from folks who believe that their agenda or their religion requires them to dictate morality to the rest of us. Not people like you who are "opposed to abortion but support personal choice", but people whose religious belief that life begins at the second of conception has told them they need to work to make not only abortion, but the Birth Control Pill illegal. (That's in the GOP platform, by the way- that is part of the agenda. The HLA plank of the GOP platform would give rights under the 14th Amendment to single cells, and mean women who used the pill or had an IUD could be charged with "murder".) The people who not only think the Earth is 6,000 years old, they want that taught as science in public schools. Those are the whack-jobs of which I speak, not you.

So, for the third time, welcome to DU. Peace.

[19jet54]

94. We agree on much, thus I am a registered Democrat since 1972

Not directed at you - but the rhetoric that you quoted, much the same way I feel about "stay the course". I never voted for Clinton, but acknowledge some very good things he did. I wish I could say the same about the "hawks" from Bush II. And by the way, the last Marine during Vietnam was killed in 1975. And even though I think Nixon was scum, he got us out of Vietnam, but the congress was Democrat. Johnson & Nixon didn't want to be labeled as loosing a war.

BTW - I worked for Nixon thru Bush II in government in one form or another. Johnson's gulf of Tonken is identical to Bush's Iraq - BS & Bubblegum to stay in power! - Personally, I think most of the problem is from Texas, all they want to do is fight? That is the only thing in common I know of?

The second amendment was there as the original "homeland security" to "maintain a well regulated militia" of the people, by the people and for the people. If our enemies have an AK or M-16, then I want one, plus a 50 cal sniper rifle, a tank, a carrier, a few cruise missiles and so on. Anything that the UN allows - follow the rules. Thus the regulation by the states on weapons, and every state is different. Nevada is nowhere near the same as New York? Violence was there during the bronze age, iron age and crossbows and hot oil (O.E. Napalm) - Nukes are new, but the rest is only bigger & better old technology. The big difference I feel is the arrogant "America" mindset that we are the sole remaining superpower: We soon forget that France, Russia, England, China and many others brought an end to the conflicts of WWII. Not to mention the behavior changes of Japan & Germany that now include them as major players. Without the respect for our neighbors, how can we expect respect either. A bully in the neighborhood can soon be put to rest by the rest of the neighbors, you cannot go it alone. There is no need to be cruel, but war is the most ugly thing there is, and the uglier you make it, the sooner it will be over; that or don't start it in the first place.

On to stem cells: Why do lawyers, religious leaders and non-doctors think they know more than the experts do? Do you buy your jewelry from a plumber? The GOP of today is not the Lincoln/Reagan/Goldwater/Eisenhower GOP, nor are the Democrats the party of Jefferson/Wilson/FDR or Truman. Both are bastardized beyond recognition by extremes. My only concern is balance of power within our government. That and throw all the incumbents out this election? Well, maybe not all, but enough to send shock waves and put the fear of the people back into government.

Your beliefs are no problem (I really don't know what they are), unless they interfere with my rights: "You can't yell fire in a crowded theater unless there is one." What you refer to is the "literalist" of the bible as "wackos"? For me, It is more akin to a guideline & historical book. I am a person who reads National Geographic, hugs trees and thinks logic is as much a part of religion as the bible is. The Wackos you refer to are just there about the power & money (similar to GOP & Dems in Government). 90% of the time is spent power/empire building with 10% of the time actually doing something useful. And they destroy ideas and people just because they can; if you make the other guy look bad, somehow that makes you look good. Ref: Church vs Da Vinci/Copernicus inquiry.

Thanks for the welcome, but please don't use "labels" such as pro-choice on me, because neither label fits really. Life is not Black & White but many shades of gray; and in the world of such chaos, very few have the brain power to grasp even the smallest ideas of such a complex reality; thus we use generic labels in politics.

Ref: I would ask you who, precisely, is trying to shove "war lies and crap" in your face from the Democratic Party these days?
Current political commercials on TV! There is enough blame to go around for sure. Have you personally been to Iraq or Afghanistan? My sons have!

Ditto on the "un-American" comment! These current power abusers are beyond belief? Just like Vietnam! Been there, done that! What really pisses me off is that Bush is a draft dodging war monger killing our children in the name of god (him). Kissinger is brilliant, unfortunately he works for idiots?

Sorry for the anger - it is directed at the "outgoing" politicians, not you. Thanks for letting me vent, I feel so much better :)

Not to sound arrogant or old, but welcome to the struggle rookie (ROFLOL)

[Warren DeMontague]

96. The Paris Peace accords were signed in `73. On identical terms to what

The North was offering the Johnson Admin. and our puppet S. Vietnamese Government in mid-1968. In '68 Henry Kissinger, playing both sides of the fence, convinced the South Vietnamese not to accept, because, he said, they could get a "better deal" from an incoming Nixon administration. Kissinger & Nixon didn't want the Democrats to be able to run on ending the war. The terms of the accords (for which, Ironically, Kissinger received the Nobel Peace Prize) which were signed in '73 were identical - after 5 more Years of War, and half the names on the Wall, were unnecessarily drawn out and added by Nixon and Kissinger.

You're probably aware of all that, but that's the reason for the 1973 date I gave. I do realize the last guys didn't leave until '75.

So I would contest your characterization of Kissinger as "brilliant". I think it can be argued the guy, while smart, is about as ethically bankrupt as they come. I could get into his track record regarding Chile and other things, but you get the drift.

Again, I'm not against responsible firearm ownership- but I do make a distinction between owning a rifle and owning a bazooka or having an ICBM in the garage. And like I said, while taking away people's guns isn't at the top of my agenda, I think we have a VERY long list of personal liberties issues in this country that need to be addressed, things like the right of consenting adults to make decisions about their own lives and bodies, before I personally start getting worked up about the amount of firepower some people aren't allowed to stockpile in the basement.

I'm sorry if you don't like being labeled "pro-choice". You can, of course, call yourself whatever you want. However, the simple distillation of the pro-choice position in one sentence is, "someone who does not believe abortion should be criminalized". That's all it means to be pro-choice. If that sentence applies to you, I hate to break it to you, but you're pro-choice. And I'm sorry if it seems arbitrary and black and white, but that's where the debate in this country stands today. You can be anti-abortion and pro-choice, because the crux of the political debate isn't around whether abortion is a good thing, it's whether or not it should be criminalized.

And like I said, the HLA plank of the GOP platform, as written for the past several decades, would not only criminalize abortion and fertility clinics, it also would criminalize the birth control pill (which the major "pro-life" organizations in this country argue is an abortifacent and morally equivalent to getting an abortion) and several other forms of contraception.

I appreciate the service of your sons; Unfortunately Afghanistan has been massively SNAFU'd by the Bush Administration and Iraq never should have happened in the first place. That's my take on it.

Peace.

[19jet54]

98. whether or not it should be criminalized...

Some should, some shouldn't - depends on the situation, just like any other taking of a life? Self defense is pretty cut & dried and legally acceptable; a convenience death is another issue all together? The real cure to unwanted pregnancy & STDs is like you said, prevention and education. Rape is another issue?

Otherwise, regarding life, I have no problem harvesting parts from unwilling viable donors for self preservation at any age? Where do we draw the line? Yes I know the difference between self sustaining life and primitive cell life :) If your Buddhists, you do not destroy any life willingly. Ethics are usually the combined sum of all peoples religions and beliefs, especially in a democracy. Laws usually protect the rights of individuals and provide for peaceful co-existence.

Some right wing bible thumping whack jobs think they are divinely inspired, Rush Limbaugh is Jesus Christ's brother, and every tittle is gospel - They are usually the pedophiles anyway, that's why they want every baby born, to molest them! They have about as much connection with Jesus as Bin Laden does with Gandhi?

BTW - most religions arose within about 1,000 years in the history time-line as man encountered man more violently, requiring a moral need for peaceful co-existence. Too bad it didn't "take" that way... :( fortunately, a few see it that way :) I don't care what people believe in, as long as they think there is something greater than themselves. History is full of examples of the struggle between the selfish and the selfless.

P.S. Kissinger - Morally bankrupt too! Nobody wanted to be the cowards of Vietnam... personal ego & their legacy! I agree, they are all to blame. Same thing with Iraq today, and everyone who voted for it; especially those old enough to have lived Vietnam.

[Binka]

97. Bloviate Much?

You really like the sound of your own voice don't ya? Jesus here for a few weeks and already on IGNORE .

[19jet54]

99. Just chatting...

Getting to know you?

I have been here for years, just unable to speak due to the "Hatch Act" law. Sorry if I have it saved up :|

[19jet54]

100. Sicily?

How is it you have a pig in this fight?

[Binka]

101. Ever Hear Of Sigonella Sport?

BTW my son is a US Marine based at 29 Palms I have more than a pig in this fight thank you very much.

[19jet54]

119. Just curious...

Simper Fi - Yep my boy just got out & he was there too; His unit were the ones that fell the Saddam statue, quited Fallujah & later helped Fallujah vote. Thanks god, not a scratch.

Thanks, I was just wondering as Sicily didn't make sense to me. No offense intended.

[benEzra]

109. "Hunting deer with machine guns"

You are "a strong supporter of personal gun rights". It may- or may not- come as a surprise to you that most Democrats do NOT want to take your guns away. I certainly don't. While I do think there is altogether far too much gun violence in our society, even leaving personal liberty issues aside, given who we are as a nation I doubt gun control is feasible or would be terribly effective in that regard. I fully support citizens' right to responsible firearm ownership. Beyond that, I do question whether it's necessary for citizens to be able to buy assault weapons at Wal-mart. But that's not a front burner issue for me, and I also am open to persuasion on the issue- given one HUGE caveat. And that is this- I am willing to listen to arguments against, say, the assault weapons ban- but not in a vacuum. It is very hard for me to get worked up about the 'injustice' of someone not being able to hunt deer with a machine gun when we spend $40 Billion a year to put cancer grannies and Willie Nelson in jail for smoking pot. Dig? Or when Alberto Gonzales decides to make the number one FBI priority in Bush's 2nd Term not fighting Terrorism, but fighting adult porn- porn by adults, for adults. (look it up if you don't believe me). In the context of a broad social liberty agenda, I might be more open on things like the Assault weapons ban. But not when we're busy throwing people in jail for nothing more than smoking a joint.

Machine guns have been tightly controlled for 72 years, and possession of one without Federal permission (BATFE Form 4) is a 10-year Federal felony.

"Assault weapons" aren't machine guns, just non-automatic civilian rifles and shotguns with handgrips that stick out, civilian guns that hold more than 6 or 10 rounds, and so on. Most of them aren't really powerful enough to hunt deer with.

I agree with you 100% on the idiocy of cannabinoid prohibition, adult porn restrictions, and such. That IMHO is none of the government's business, and while I don't use drugs, I believe it should be a personal choice--and given the risk profile of the cannabinoids vs. alcohol, banning the former while allowing the latter is just silly.

I also think that ALL of the Bill of Rights is important, not just the Second Amendment. But I think the 2ndA is just as important as the others, and that the "assault weapon" bait-and-switch is an attempt to sharply curtail its scope.

[19jet54]

120. yep,

that issue cost Gore the election in my circles. Ditto on "all the bill of rights"!!!

[Warren DeMontague]

122. Like I said, gun control isn't a front burner for me.

I'm certainly have no interest in the gov't taking anyone's guns away, if they are responsible, legal firearm owners.

That said, again, you may be right about the Assault weapons ban- and I agree with you as a matter of general principle on the 2nd amendment- but right now, gun ownership is a helluva lot more protected than many other basic rights in this country, like the right of consenting adults to make their own decisions about their own bodies.

As long as we're spending $40 Billion a year to put Tommy Chong, Willie Nelson and various cancer-ridden grannies in jail, as long as posession of a vibrator will get you prison in Texas (but possession of a Magnum won't), the assault weapons ban is kinda far down my list.

[benEzra]

123. That's understandable...

I just hope all people with a high view of civil liberties can get on the same page, at least as far as letting other people live their lives unmolested. Gun owners who believe in censorship, and privacy activists who support banning nonhunting guns, are ultimately hurting themselves, because if everyone believes that "other" people's choices should be restricted, then EVERYONE's choices are thereby restricted.

You and I are on the same page on most of these issues, I think. Cannabis decriminalization is probably down my list a bit compared to the gun issue, but I agree with you that the current "demon weed" approach is ridiculous and counterproductive. The final straw for me was when the DEA agents raided that state-licensed medical co-op carrying MACHINEGUNS a while back, like it was some sort of raid on a terrorist HQ or a crack house, just to make a statement.

[Warren DeMontague]

124. I think they used explosives to blow off the doors of another one.

I remember hearing that they use those things for training and swat team "practice", because they know the stoned cancer patients aren't gonna pose any threat. It's ridiculous.

Fundamentally, you're right, we agree. I think that if our party would adopt a broad-based personal freedom agenda- I'd have no problem tying 2nd amendment rights in there, and you guys are certainly right that the perception of our party as antagonistic to the 2nd amendment has cost us votes IMHO- I think we could build a solid, long-term majority.

Peace.

[19jet54]

126. Damn fine idea!

That is one solid idea "broad based personal freedom agenda"!!! A modern day renewal of the "Bill of Rights". Right on! Government only has the power the constitution specifically gives them, rather than "all powerful" unless restricted by law?

Regarding your handle "impeachdubya"; I respectfully disagree, impeachment is too hard on our nation overall: Perhaps, IMHO, an alternative is this Nov we put a choke chain on the wild dog? (Dems in House & Senate) Let him finish his term, try him for "war crimes", take his ranch away as illegal booty (like we do with drug dealers) and make it a memorial (like Arlington) to the men & women he killed? Just a thought?

[blondeatlast]

60. Tell Talent to repudiate Rush's disgusting attack on Michael J Fox, here:

http://www.stempac.com/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2907851&mesg_id=2907851

[The Wizard]

61. Isn't it about time

the GOP mouth pieces like Rash Limpballs run for office.
So what if he needs Viagra and hillbilly heroine.
Thank Zeus I'm a Democrat

[RevCheesehead]

64. The Wisconsin Ad is particularly gripping.

He says, "Wisconsin holds a special place in my heart, for this is where stem cell research began." Mark Green has consistently voted against all stem-cell research while in congress. Please re-elect Gov. Doyle, and give people like me a fighting chance.

(the rest is a paraphrase; my memory ain't so good.)

[ContraCommando]

66. Makes you proud to be a liberal

I know I shouldn’t be giving any attention to RW fundie sities (FR), but I think it’s important to understand just how rabidly nuts these people are on this issue:

1) But...But....But...Michael J. Fox is a Hollywood STAR!
He is much more important than unviable tissue mass.
< /sarcasm >
2) YEAHHHHHH
thank you to the famous people with morals who don't want to kill babies!!!!!! (on the anti-stem cell ad)
3) LOL! Dave, your DUmmie like rhetoric ain't going to suprress Michael J. Fox's pro-abortion views.
4) Fox should shut his mouth or go home.
5) Don't count on it, that little Fox acting job was pretty good.
6) Wonder how Mike Fox would feel if it was discovered that by sucking out the brains of MS victims and extracting their DNA you could cure cancer?
7) That is just it, Michael J. Fox, ain't much of an actor. A 40 year old man playing teenager parts. Go figure.
8) Carving up babies for junk science. What part of your "superior" intellect can't grasp that?
9) MJ Fox should be ashamed of himself.
10) Besides, if he'd stop drinking diet sodas which is most likely why he's got the disease in the first place...aspartame is the culpirt...daily he'd drink gallons of diet soda...
11) It looks like Fox is purposefully misleading people, especially by not taking his medication while filming for a CAMPAIGN AD!
12) This is sad. I really used to like Fox. Oh well...add him to the ever-growing list of Hollyweird leftists that I now can't freaking stand.
13) It was called 'acting'. And just like lying and pretending, it's what lefties do best.
14) Michael J Fox, you should be ashamed of yourself!
15) Good point! Every democrat is a liar.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1725184/posts

[K8-EEE]

68. Thanks For The 50-State Exposure On This RushBo

Good job you evil clown!

[phantom power]

70. at long last, have you no decency?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

72. That has to have been even more effective than they ever dreamed

I know when I first saw the ad I cried, two days later when my mom saw it she called me crying. We may already both be dems, but first we're people and it moved us. Also, I am in Texas and she's in California, so it's been spread far and wide.

[eleny]

73. This is why it was important for CNN to show the sniper video

When people see the truth it has a major impact. Republicans want to treat americans like mushrooms - keep us in the dark and covered from the light of day.

[buddysmellgood]

75. What's even more amazing...

He really is faking! He doesn't even have Parkinsons. He's just an amazing actor who has been plotting with the democrats for years so that we can have this moment.

[Marrak]

78. If they would have surveyed after

seeing him on Katie Couric tonight...the numbers would have increased 30% plus...He is just amazing!

While Limbaugh drags knuckles...


<>

[The Wizard]

103. Oxycontin

making assholes into bigger assholes every day. If only that motherfucker
Rash was poor he'd be in the Gray Bar Hotel and License Plate Factory being the Toss Salad Man.

[Lithos]

80. Bless you Rush!!!

Without your stupid kneejerk remarks this would have never been seen or discussed on the national level like it has. Your mouth was equal to many millions of dollars in advertising for the Democrats.

Keep it up!!!

L-

[Synnical]

83. Great Find!

Thanks, and good job.

:thumbsup:

[MindMatter]

86. It is the PRO LIFE position

MJF is the first public voice I have heard that clearly states what should be obvious to anyone whose IQ is higher than their body temperature. Stem cell research is THE pro life position. People who are against this research are in favor of letting unused fertility clinic flotsam be thrwn in the dumpster when that same stuff could be used to help heal real human lives. There will eventually come a day when the fruits of stem cell research will be used to correct birth defects BEFORE the birth even happens.

How dare anybody call themselves "pro life" and argue against stem cell research.

Time to call out these bastards. (Although I must say I admire Fox's ability to do this in a steadfastly positive manner.)

[mcg]

93. Exactly, stem cell research will save many babies

and other people (they count too!). The less restricted it is the better. It is not enough to be only for some stem cell research, embryonic stem cell research is needed as well.

It bears repeating, as you said, these pre-embryos would get destroyed anyway, so even people who are against abortion should not have a problem with it.

Stem Cell Research Basics: Early Stem Cells
http://www.kumc.edu/stemcell/early.html

People need to get educated on this issue, this is not an abortion issue!

[Up2Late]

89. Wow!

That's amazing.:wow:

[Donailin]

90. MacFly!

I love ya, man.

[Imagevision]

91. Perhaps Rush would like to comment on Ford of Tenn. about playboy babe??

c'mon Rush give it a shot , say some dang dumb-shitz comment...

[osaMABUSh]

92. Hey Rush, thx for the 10 minute commercial on CBS Eve News

MJ Fox appeared for about 10 minutes with Katy Couric on CBS eve news tonight in two segments - incredible, considering the pgm runs for about, what 25 minutes (deductting the commercials).

So thanks for Rush the 10 minute Stem cell commercial which is worth thousands of votes for our side.

[Erika]

95. Rush's mocking MJF

Shows the real horrible face of the GOP.

[grizmaster]

105. Thank you Michael J Fox

[DUBYASCREWEDUS]

107. Amen to that.

God Bless Michael J. Fox, the late Christopher and Dana Reeves, the late Dudley Moore and all those who are in a position to bring these debilitating illnesses to the forefront for discussion. I wonder what Limpdick would say if Lou Gehrig were alive today and championing for a cure for ALS? Would he too be "exploiting" his celebrity? How does that old saying go? "'Tis better to be thought of a fool then to open your mouth and remove all doubt"?

[blondeatlast]

106. Looks like Cuban cigar chompin, fine wine drinking, OxyContin downin'

Rush (see the article in Cigar Aficianado and be certain to show it to any Rush fans you know--very enlightening) has fianlly lodged his stinkin', fat, smelly foot so far down in his throat that he choked on it.

All emphasis mine:

Limbaugh loves sitting back and relaxing with a cigar. "Of course you have to save the Cuban cigars for special occasions. I like keeping things special in my life. So I do smoke some Honduran Punches now and then. And I still have a box of Ashtons and Partagas No. 10's. But this is a special occasion. Being interviewed by Cigar Aficionado is a special occasion. And this Ramon Allones Gigante is a hit. This is like five Cohiba Robustos rolled into one.''

Limbaugh's face is wide and open, with penetrating and superbly intelligent eyes that contain more than a glint of humor. Yes, he is serious, but he is also having fun. Lots of fun. The aroma of Cuban cigars, he says, even pleases women, many of whom have been known to object to the odor of other cigars (just as many have been known to object to his penchant for referring to them as girls and to his less-than-favorable reviews of what he considers the "radical'' feminist agenda). "Often you just bring out a cigar, and it's an immediate hysterical reaction, even before you light up. But when I light up a Romeo y Julieta Churchill, it seems to be the cigar that women like. They don't object to it at all.''

Plenty more ass-licking where that came from. Mr. BAL cancelled his subscription because of that article--and told them so, vehemently.

http://www.cigaraficionado.com/Cigar/CA_Profiles/People_Profile/0,2540,18,00.html

Heimlich, anyone? Not me--I'm off my meds, I can't... :evilgrin:

[SAXMAR]

108. Specter (R) used Michael J Fox in his campaign ad

No Republicans or Democrats (because it was a good thing) or Radio Hosts complained about that.

We need to get this out to all media.

"You are entitled to your own opinion. You are not entitled to your own facts" D.P.Moynihan

[jlcx2]

113. People are sick of the Republican tactics!

Check out this video!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83rr8p2QGNQ

[19jet54]

121. Just like Neil Young, only younger...

Far out dude; Rock on!

[The Count]

116. CNN: "Rush "caught"in a controversy. Caught? I thought he caused it!

Astute caller on Mark Seder show on AAR

[NotGivingUp]

118. Thank you, Michael!