Seems to me a lot of so-called Dems WANT * to win in November.

[MoonRiver]

Is it me or are there an inordinate number of posts here lately which proclaim to the heavens that we will be creamed and the BFEE will continue to reign supreme? I really feel betrayed and quite disgusted by how sour grapes or worse are enabling the enemy in its master plan destroy this country.

:puke:

[bushwakker]

1. I don't believe the posts here reflect the larger reality

"out there". If the primaries have taught us one thing so far it's that Dem voters seem pretty united around the goal of winning. They have determined that Kerry has the best chance and I agree. There is no doubt some who would rather have AWOL re-elected as a way of saying "I told you so". Those who feel that way are not Democrats.

[NNN0LHI]

2. We are on an anonymous board so we don't know who anyone really is n/t

[displacedtexan]

3. In my opinion, this is our biggest weakness:

Repukes fight like junkyard dogs during primary season, but they all get in line behind the candidate in the general election.

Dems fight like junkyard dogs during the primary season, but they withhold donations, don't get out and canvass, and often don't even bother to vote in the general election unless their primary season pick is the GE candidate.

Believe me, repukes are well aware of this. This is why Clinton was able to win in '92: Dems were divided, but they voted against Poppy Bush!

I just hope the anti-Bush vote gets Dems to the polls this Nov. 2nd because I see the same old Dem divisions (especially among single-issue voters)!

[NNN0LHI]

5. Arnold proved why Repugs win so much

It is because they are able to forget their differences and work as a team when needed. Some here have not caught on to that fact of life yet.

Don

[bearfartinthewoods]

7. huh? arnie had competition on the right.

that hardly fits with your theory.

[NNN0LHI]

9. Do you think that just Dems voted for Arnie or something?

And the competition you speak of was tepid at best.

Don

[Eric J in MN]

4. pessimism and wanting Bush to win are completely different

I'm optimistic this morning, but a few weeks ago I was pessimistic, and at no point did I want Bush to win the 2004 election.

[quaker bill]

6. You have it exactly backwards

They are comitted democrats who are watching the party roll out the red carpet for Bush* in the name of "electability". They want the party to win and now see this as far less likely to happen now.

Many of us remember 1972 when Nixon won re-election despite evidence of impeachable offenses. We see it coming again and we don't really care for it.

You are not required to show respect for our opinion and analysis in this regard. However, you would probably be more successful in garnering support for your candidate by not calling us republican trolls.

Yes DU is small. 400 votes decided New Mexico in 2000. "537" "votes" decided Florida in 2000. How many potential supporters do you wish to discourage?

[MoonRiver]

8. How many do YOU want to discourage.

Stating that * WILL win is certainly a lot more discouraging to potential voters, than discussing the statement that some believe he WILL win. Those who don't want to vote for the Dem candidate are free to do so. But I highly resent their pushing propaganda which seems designed to disuade others from doing so. No matter what arguments you make to the contrary if this tactic works it will give * another 4, and probably hand Jeb 8. Is this really progress?

[charlie]

10. Good job

mixing those who fear a Dem loss with those who'll aid a Dem loss. It's a big leap between the two, but you seem to have made it just fine Mr Knievel.

[poskonig]

11. Denethors abound.

"Abandon your posts! Flee! Flee for your life!" :puke:

[IndianaGreen]

12. Many of Dean's supporters were never involved in politics before

They don't come to DU, I doubt that they even know this place even exists.

The Meetups is the medium that was used to get all of these wonderful people together. They are against the war, and they supported Dean because he tapped into their core values. They reject the type of politics that has produced a nominee like John Kerry, and elected a moron like George Bush. Their votes are not transferable. They want real change in the country, not a change that only entails changing the draperies in the White House.

Many of them had dropped out, or never participated in the political process because they saw it as the manifestation of a corrupt and undemocratic political system that systematically ignored the interests of the working men and women of America.

They may drop out again!

The problems of our nation are systemic, as is the death-grip of the DLC on the Democratic Party, and they won't be resolved even if Kerry is elected in November.

ABB is a phony goal, as much as Kerry is the "Phony Deal"! ABB is a narcotic that deludes people into thinking that all of our problems are solved once we put a Democrat in the White House. This is not true! The same issues we have with Bush were there with Clinton, and they won't go away with Kerry. You will continue to have secret courts and secret trials under FISA. You will continue to have the Justice Department using the FBI and grand juries to stifle dissent and the peace movement under PATRIOT. You will continue to have dead and wounded in Iraq. You will continue to have Plan Colombia and globalization. NAFTA will be expanded to include all of Latin America. The industrial base of this country will continue to erode.

This is going to be a long struggle, as someone wrote in an e-mail:

The most important thing I have re-gained from the Dean
campaign is my idealism and love for my country and its form of
government that derives its power from the people. This is a fight
that has just begun and I look forward to seeing many of you on
future battlefields. Thanks for letting me share with my new
family.

[Democrats unite]

13. I believe a large amount of Democrats are selling out the party

[mike_c]

14. were you here during the 2002 election run-up and...

...aftermath? There was a lot of teeth-gnashing over the lack-luster performance of dems who were not differentiating themselves from repugs sufficiently during the run-up, followed by incredulity at the sheer magnitude of the democratic failure in the election. I think a lot of us lost faith in the party leadership the day after that election. We think the Democratic party needs to return to its roots, and in particular move back to the left, both to differentiate itself from the repugs-- it's all pretty much the same in the center-- and to return to traditional dem values, e.g. putting the people's democracy before the corporate autocracy. But that's another rant.