Thanks Mr. Kerry

[BamaLefty]

... Thanks Mr. Kerry for once again reminding me of why I should not support you to get the Democratic nomination in 2008. I personally think John Kerry is a brilliant man... but common sense and knowledge don't always go hand in hand. Kerry's a smart guy, but he's so damn Phi Beta Kappa that he can't see off the tip of his nose. Sans the National Guardsmen, what he said is probably true. But ya know what? There are some things you just don't say as a public official! Do I think Kerry hates the troops? Absolutely not. Afterall, he's walked in their shoes before. Do I think John Kerry knows what to say and when to say it? Absolutely not. However, it'll be the latter that jumps up and bites him (see 2004 campaign).

What he did today was a blessing in disguise for the Democratic Party. It more than likely sealed his fate on a second run at the Presidency.

Please don't flame me for a little healthy criticism! :)

[maddiejoan]

1. Really?

Kerry singlehandedly just brought the debate back to being about the Iraq War a short 7 days before the election --when NOBODY was talking about it.

Thanks. Mr. Kerry indeed!

[Jacobin]

8. help me out here

The talking heads I've watched have repeated over and over that no one wants to be associated with Bush because of Iraq. The talking heads I've seen have emphasized the number of dead US troops this month.

The talking heads I've watched have said this election was a referendum on Iraq.

What have you been watching that leads you to believe the focus was off of Iraq and Bush as a failure?

[maddiejoan]

12. You are kidding right?

Foley Foley Foley

Gay marriage Gay marriage Gay Marriage.


For the last month the focus has been OFF Iraq and on banality.

Now it's back on Iraq.

[Jacobin]

17. No. I'm not kidding at all

Foley has been 'dead' for the past week.
Gay marriage has hardly been mentioned.

That's why I've asked what you were watching.

Lately, I've watched CNN and MSNBC.

I haven't watched the network news.

is what you are describing on the network news?....I'm talking about the last week or ten days

[maddiejoan]

19. :::shrug::::

I live near New Jersey --all my news has been Foley Foley Foley. Gay marriage Gay marriage.

[Jacobin]

22. Okay

That makes sense.

Local news, or national though?

[maddiejoan]

29. local

I can't watch national news without breaking into hives.

[Jacobin]

30. LOL

I know the feeling very very well!!!

However, you might take a little peek. While still puerile and silly, they really do seem to be hammering this IraqNam thing with a vengence finally.

[cali]

32. NOBODY was talking about it?

Where have you been? The Iraq war and lack of support for it, has been a major theme throughout this election season virtually everywhere in this country.

[maddiejoan]

36. The subject has been

How voters feel about the Iraq war --NOT about the Iraq war.

There has been zero info on the corporate news about what is really going on.

[cali]

42. Yeah, it's about how voters feel about it-

because it's such a debacle, and there's been considerable press about the 101 troop deaths this month, not to mention things like the NYT photo story in Arlington.

[blm]

2. How about a little comprehension before the criticism?

YOU just bought the RW lie lock, stock and barrel.

Why? It's been proven quite definitively that Kerry was targeting Bush - and was NOT referring to troops - and no one even at the WH believes their own lie.

Why do you?

[JuniperLea]

24. Bingo! Well said!

What is it about this deal that has so many DUers sippin' from the Kool-Aid cup? I just don't get it!


:shrug:



:crazy:

[Fluffdaddy]

26. Then he did it poorly. Kerry needs to invest in a better speech writer

[blm]

33. Funny, every time he has said it in the past it came off fine and no news

bothered to cover it. So now that he's been on the road for weeks campaigning for candidates, he makes not that big a slip on delivery and you want to join the RW in attacking him?

Even if it WAS in reference to troops, he would still be right to say so - the rich and educated have more options than the less educated who often turn to the military for another chance.

Either way, the WH had to LIE to make it into a different story and they had to be called on their lie.

[Fluffdaddy]

62. blm.......... I'm not drinking the Kool-aid

[blm]

68. What Kool aid? WH lied - you buy it. Bush became suddenly CREDIBLE

to some here at DU, even though there isn't one shred of evidence that proves Kerry did what they claim.

How much Kool aid does one have to drink to believe Bush had an honest argument and that it's Kerry who was wrong?

[Fluffdaddy]

71. You don't give your enemy any ammo to spin

And that's what kerry did. To say otherwise is drinking unsweetened kool-aid and pretending you like it.

[blm]

75. They are LYING - they lie about ANBODY who sticks their neck out to oppose

them.

You think Jesus or Churchill or any silver-tongued politician COULDN'T have their words spun, editted or clipped if BushInc chose to do so?

[BamaLefty]

44. I'm aware of that

It's the way he said it. I don't think he is anti-troop for one second... but rather anti-common sense. There are certain things that you don't say as a public official and this is one of them.

I know that a very small percentage of those fighting in Iraq have college degrees. I'm not blind to the world around me. Again, you just don't say certain things that can be so easily spun. Kerry nailed his final coffin with me. I grew tired of defending his words in 04 but was proud to do it. I don't feel like doing that in 08. Clark 4 Prez!

[blm]

54. KERRY WAS TALKING ABOUT BUSH - NOT about the troops. Why PRETEND

otherwise?

Bush is trying to lie and say Kerry was talking about the troops. YOU are pretending Kerry is talking about the troops. Kerry didn't say that.

He said if you DON'T STUDY and try to do well, you can fuck up as big as Bush did - Bush never did his homework on Iraq - never studied the region and its history - and got stuck in Iraq.

I think you just grasped at a RW straw.

[BootinUp]

56. RW/LW why can't you let people interpret his statement

without the namecalling.

[AtomicKitten]

58. here's my gut reaction just watching the youtube clip on hearing about the flap

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2526919&mesg_id=2527514

youtube piece shown all over TV: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLuMWiQ6r2o

I thought he was talking about the troops too and I didn't see anything wrong with it. It's not a secret that poor kids go into the military to pay for their education.

I think this is just being used to fuel the fake outrage the wingnuts are famous for and is much ado about nothing.

Quite frankly it is too soon to tell if it will have good or bad repercussions. I sure wouldn't get my knickers in a twist over it this early. We have an ass-kicking to deliver in a few days.

[blm]

60. Bush isn't INTERPRETING it they are LYING about it.

.

[Fluffdaddy]

3. I 100% agree with you. dumb Mr Kerry ....DUMB

We are this close to winning this THING and he opens his BIG MOUTH

[emulatorloo]

9. I hope he keeps FLAPPING his TRAP - that press conference kicked bushco ass

[emulatorloo]

4. I'm not going to flame you -- but I will ****BUY YOU A CLUE.****

John Kerry was making a joke about George Bush not doing his homework on Iraq. Any reasonable person knows that is the case.

The highly paid Willfully Ignorant Punditry and the RNC hacks WILLFULLY LIED and DISTORTED this in a vile and disgusting attempt to distract from the FAILURES OF THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION>

And then John Kerry Kicked thier lying asses today in a press conference that should make any red blooded American proud.


---

http://www.johnkerry.com/news/releases/release.html?id=34

October 31, 2006

Kerry: “If anyone owes our troops in the fields an apology, it is the President”

Transcript of John Kerry Responding to Attacks on his Remarks

<snip>

Enough is enough. We're not going to stand for this. This policy is broken. And this president and his administration didn't do their homework. They didn't study what would happen in Iraq. They didn't study and listen to the people who were the experts and would have told them.

And they know that's what I was talking about yesterday. I'm not going to be lectured by a White House or by the likes of Rush Limbaugh who's taking a day off from mimicking and attacking Michael J. Fox, who's now going to try to attack me and lie about me and distort me.

No way. It disgusts me that a bunch of these Republican hacks who've never worn the uniform of our country are willing to lie about those who did.

It's over.

This administration has given us a Katrina foreign policy: mistake upon mistake upon mistake; unwilling to give our troops the armor that they need; unwilling to have enough troops in place; unwilling to give them the Humvees that they deserve to protect them; unwilling to have a coalition that is adequate to be able to defend our interests.

Our own intelligence agency has told us they're creating more terrorists, not less. They're making us less safe, not more.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[59millionmorons]

6. Did you even see his remarks

If you did you would see how silly your post is.

[Montauk6]

7. This is no flame, Bams, but a plea for understanding your point

Why would you not support him for his frank statements? You may be right that his fate is sealed (entre nous, his fate may have already been sealed when he conceded the election but we'll leave that alone) but how would that sway you from backing him, if (and correct any wrongful assumption on my part) you agree with his statements?

I just want to be clear on what you're arguing. :)

[BamaLefty]

45. Not that I disagree with him...

because I don't. It has to do with me wanting a winner and us choosing the person with the best chance of taking back the White House. Whether what he said was or was not true is not neccessarily the point. The point is that Kerry's latest bobble will only fan the flames of the people who have such a hatred for him. I think he would beat W in 08, but that's one of the few that he could defeat. I think voters will see him (and Gore as well) as "old news" and buy in to the same talking points that were used against them in 2000 and 2004.

This post is not about me liking or disliking John Kerry. I fully supported the guy in 2004 and even cried when he lost. Yes, cried. Hopefully, this cleared up your question, Montauk6. Thank you so much for being thoughtful in your inquiry and not being harsh like some others who have replied to my post. :)

Fellas, we'll all be celebrating Tuesday. Don't forget that!

[magnolia]

67. The best person????

According to you, are greatest fear is attack from the right-wing. So the "best person" will have to be someone who has never made a mistake in his entire life and who will never, EVER say anything stupid. That's ridiculous since there is no such person! What we need to do is STOP BEING THE RIGHT WING PUPPETS!

This may be the perfect opportunity for the democrats to say enough is enough and we aren't going to play your game anymore!

Here in Virginia Allen is attacking Webb based on the behavior of characters in his books. Is Webb suppose to apologize for having written books!

I am so sick of the these attacks and I'm deeply disappointed at DUers who buy into them. Instead of blaming the Rove machine, you add to the attack of the victims. It's truly pathetic!

[JuniperLea]

10. STEP AWAY FROM THE KOOL-AID!!!

Why do you swallow the Republican spin on this??? That's absurd! Did you even bother to listen to or read what he actually said?

[BootinUp]

13. this might be difficult

for you to grasp, but sometimes people have their own opinions and it aint buying someones spin. Just sayin.

[JuniperLea]

15. Oh my grasp is just fine

And I know Repub talking points when I read/hear them recited verbatim. There is no way this could be misunderstood if one has but the tiniest bit of reading comprehension.

[BootinUp]

16. You dont know jack n/t

[JuniperLea]

23. Snappy comeback

You don't know squat about how much jack I know, so keep your snappy comebacks to yourself. Sheesh.

[BamaLefty]

48. Yes, I've listened

And I share the same view as Kerry. Yet, it is bad politics!

You give them a crease of daylight and the smear campaign is on. Kerry has given them a bright, glowing ray of sunshine so bright that they have to squint. I hope to God that this doesn't wind up killing our momentum.

[rockymountaindem]

11. What exactly did he say that was so bad?

And if what he said was so damn inexcusable, how come the Republicans only see fit to bring this up the day afterwards. Hmm?

This is a stupid distraction organized by the Republicans. Kerry was making a poke at Bush that he's made in public before, but only *now* are the Republicans trying to make hay with it. Doesn't that tell you something?

[Sam Francis 1964]

14. Don't worry - flame-free zone

The sad part is that this might have been a complete non-event if it had been handled differently. Kerry's people should have realized IMMEDIATELY that the botched joke (and let's face it, he blew the line) needed a quick correction. He should not have been allowed to get out of Pasadena without correcting the record.

Unfortunately, it festered overnight and there was no response until 15-18 hours after the event. Too much time in the blogosphere and Kerry's people should have known that. Kerry was probably right to go 'nuclear' in his own response (although the Limbaugh comment was just a little too wierd), but if he had addressed the comment quicker none of this might have happened.

[emulatorloo]

18. nobody gave a crap until Karl Rove fired up his Fax Machine

why do we continually blame Dems for the LIES DISTORTIONS and MANIPULATIONS of the Right-Wing Lie Machine.

[Sam Francis 1964]

27. And That's The Problem...

Kerry gave Rove a big fat bulls-eye.

[emulatorloo]

28. Why do you blame Dems for the Right-Wing Lie machine?

I don't get it.

Bush says stupid crap all the time and I have never seen republicans endlessly denouncing him for it.

[OzarkDem]

31. Blame Kerry for making himself a target

Every other Dem candidate running in this election cycle has managed to avoid these kind of stupid mistakes. Why is Kerry any different?

[Fluffdaddy]

34. You are right on..........most Dem's are laying low trying to avoid mistakes

with a week to go. Stupid Stupid Stupid Stupid Stupid

[emulatorloo]

43. the last thing America needs are "Dems who lay low"

I want them to stand up and call BS on the republicans, as Kerry did today.

[Mass]

37. Sure, ask Patrick Murphy, Sestak, or even Murtha.

They have been subject to the same type of attacks (worse given they are candidates).

Ask Webb, ask Ford.

All these attacks are totally disingenuous. We have been united behind them.

In this case, all it takes is to attack back (not even defend him - He has been doing that very well himself) and we stay silent or prefer eating our owns.

This reminds me of the intern story. Nothing true, but people were still yapping that Kerry was responsible (for what was never very clear).

[beaconess]

52. Ha ha - damned if he does damned if he doesn't

First of all, you don't know if they've avoided mistakes - perhaps you just haven't seen any coverage of them.

And it's a hoot watching some of the same people who bitch and moan about Dem candidates being goes for the jugular - which often leads to misspeaking - he gets blasted by the peanut gallery.

I can't think of a candidate or political figure who hasn't had a slipup - it wasn't a stupid mistake. It was a mistake. It happens.

I'd love to see how you (or I or anyone else here) would do in similar circumstances - no one who speaks as often as these people do can avoid making an occasional mistake. Only judgmental distant observers would believe that these men and women must be perfect at all times.

[fuzzyball]

38. Welcome to DU Sam Francis.....

[ncrainbowgrrl]

57. Hi Sam Francis 1964! Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[mentalsolstice]

20. I'm From Bama Too

Do you need an intervention? If so, I'm close by. STEP. AWAY. FROM. THE. KOOL-AID. No flaming, just some tough love.

Kerry was targeting Chimpy...he has never had anything but the troops' best interests in mind (except for being hood-winked by * in the first place, as many were).

[BamaLefty]

50. I'll respond by

telling you to read my other responses in this thread.

On a lighter note, where ya from in 'Bama? It's always good to see fellow Alabamians on DU! :)

[mentalsolstice]

74. Bham. You?

We're a rare breed...

[blue cat]

21. Kerry is a strong man

His response was forceful and he learns from his mistakes. I respect him more than any other democrat. I think he would have been a great president. I am going for one who I think can win though, so I'm witholding judgement until 2008. They are going after Kerry because they know he is strong.

[OzarkDem]

25. Agree

He keeps stepping in a pile every time he turns around.

[Nedsdag]

76. Ditto

He's not an instinctive politician. He should leave the jokes to Letterman, Leno, and Jon Stewart.

[Cha]

35. First of all...it's

Senator Kerry. I think he's earned that title, second of all.. buzzflash thinks he just had his "finest moment" (so far) http://www.buzzflash.com/

[Sam Francis 1964]

39. Spare me

What do you think this is, 3rd Century Rome?

[IndianaGreen]

40. I choose to rally around John Kerry, war hero and Bush basher

Bush has not apologized to the families of the fallen for lying to the country into the Iraq quagmire. Bush was AWOL and drunk while Kerry was risking his life in Vietnam. All of Bush's apologists are chicken hawks and war profiteers.

As we saw in Fahrenheit 911 military recruiters exploit young men and women in tough economic times to get them to sign up as canon fodder for neocon wars.

[zulchzulu]

41. Swing......and a miss...

You don't get it. I hope you like that new Rove KoolAid you're drinking...

[BamaLefty]

46. I do get it

I get what the MAJORITY of the American people are going to get. Kerry's words won't be interpreted as a joke, but rather a slam at our men and women in the armed forces.

For the thousandth time, I'm not saying that Kerry's comments were false. Bad politics, but not false.

[zulchzulu]

53. Mmmmmm....Rove KoolAid....

Bullshit to your assessment. If you want to believe that people are THAT STUPID, then good for you.

Get off the field. Back to the bench. Sit.

[BamaLefty]

55. It took them 5 years to figure

him out. The sad reality is that people are probably "THAT STUPID."

Try to show a little more civility with your responses. I'd not mad at you one bit, but ya know... let's try to have a civil discussion here. :)

[ClassWarrior]

63. You just called the American people "STUPID" in capitol letters...

...and you want to have "a civil discussion?"

:rofl:

NGU.

[Fluffdaddy]

72. That's the way my co-workers are taking it

and with less then a week to go.................sad

[ruggerson]

47. You nailed it

Kerry will not be the nominee in '08. We need someone who does not open himself up to this shit, time and time again.

Having said that, I don't think this will have any effect whatsoever on 06.

People are not going to change their vote for Congressman or Senator or dogcatcher based on some lame off the cuff remark Kerry may have uttered.

[WCGreen]

49. The only reason he was the nominee back in 2004...

is because when the primary season started, Bush was at 90%...

He would have never survived if Clark had started earlier, if Feingold had jumped in, if Dean hadn't imploded, if Graham of Florida would have stayed in, hell Biden would have beated him....

[EndElectoral]

51. KOS supports Kerry

The John Kerry nonsense
by kos
Tue Oct 31, 2006 at 02:31:16 PM PST
Man, there are times when this stuff is more ridiculous than anything a fiction writer or satirist could ever dream up.
So John Kerry mangles a sentence in a public appearance, and the right-wing smear machine and its traditional media enablers are apoplectic. I mean, John Kerry is a, um, junior senator not running for reelection! And he's, um, a war hero who hates the troops! And um, we hate him because he's John Kerry!

Trust me, I haven't been shy to pile on Kerry when warranted, but what a load of bullshit this is. And showing that he has learned from his Swiftboating days, Kerry hit back hard:

Kerry has nothing to apologize for. The people who have turned their backs on the troops do. And even though this ridiculousness will lead the evening news, fact is, we should embrace the opportunity to remind Americans how Republicans rally to the "troops" defense only when it suits their own cynical political ends.

Kerry responded perfectly. Perhaps not in a way that the DC wise men would approve, those Gang of 500 fools who have enabled this administration's disasters at home and abroad.
Perhaps not in a way that will appease the 101st Fighting Keyboardists and their acolytes who would rather talk tough than actually show genuine courage by enlisting in the armed forces.

And sure, not in a way that will appease Republicans hoping to find anything to desperately detract from their crappy policies, crappy candidates, and lie- and hate-filled campaigns.

Yeah, those people won't be happy with Kerry's response.
But in this case, Kerry responded the right way. Not by bowing to the full blast of the right wing noise machine, but by standing up to it on behalf of our troops, our nation, and the truth.

If Republicans want to debate who supports the troops more, let's have that debate. I'd love to talk about nothing else than Iraq for the next week.

And for the rest of you who think this is the end of the world -- stop being afraid of your own shadow. Just stop it. Fight or get out of the kitchen. It will get hotter than even this.

[confludemocrat]

86. Kos supported Kerry yesterday saying no need to apologize but today's another

day and Kerry did apologize, and he did "bow to the right wing noise machine", as Kos said he didn't or wouldn't. What does Kos say now?

Kos: "And for the rest of you who think this is the end of the world -- stop being afraid of your own shadow. Just stop it. Fight or get out of the kitchen. It will get hotter than even this."
and if it does get hotter, we have witnessed Dems abandoning Dems and Kerry going back on his statement that he nothing to apologize for.

Still another sad display by the Democrats.

[LittleClarkie]

59. Meh. I mispeak too. But the whole of the GOP isn't paying attention to me.

I ask myself why they were paying so much attention to him in the first place. Are they afraid of him?

And his rebuttal was magnificent. It reminded me of why I have a Kerry in 2008 sticker on my car.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[magnolia]

64. Two books have been published of all the......

....Bush mis-statements and stupid remarks. John Kerry slips up and we are all suppose to think he made a huge error that requires endless apology??? Why??? Oh, because the right-wing Rove machine told us to. If you are criticizing John Kerry then you are as much of a sheep to Karl Rove as any of the republicans...you just don't realize it yet!!

[geiger]

65. too bad you're only saying what the R's want you to say

not instead engaging in real issues and real criticism

[Le Taz Hot]

66. Sorry you're taking flak

from the devoted DU Kerry, uh, fans but you are absolutely correct. This kills his chances for the presidential nomination and I, for one, couldn't be happier about it. Far be it from me to rehash the 2004 election in which he lost to the worst president in U.S. history. He would have had even LESS supporters in 2008. At least after the media-fed "Dean scream" Dean found something useful to do. Kerry hasn't stopped campaigning. 'Course now we'll have to deal with "Hil," Biden, Warner, Obama, Clark and the rest of the DLC stooges (Clark/Obama fans PLEASE put me on ignore), but maybe, just MAYBE we will, for once, choose a candidate who can win.

[BamaLefty]

70. Bingo n/t

[Tansy_Gold]

73. "This kills his chances"

Oh, and tell me, what paragon of verbal acrobatics who never makes a single mistake are you going to support? You might as well not even register to vote, because that perfect angel doesn't exist.

Get over it.

Get on with it.


Tansy Gold (who just mistyped her "own" name)

[Le Taz Hot]

79. 'Remember the "Dean Scream"

the MSM played over and over and over and over again? Think along those lines. And just for the record, I've been registered to vote since 1972 but thanks for playing.

[Nedsdag]

77. Thank you

I couldn't agree more.

That's why he's doing damage control yesterday and today.

[Eurobabe]

69. Hey now, don't go trashing Phi Beta Kappa! I am, and so is Bill

and many of us get it. The problem with Kerry is he is just too esoteric for the stupid masses that might have to think too much and hurt their brains.

[Arkana]

78. Had the senator actually read the joke correctly, it would be a non-issue.

[musiclawyer]

80. I'm in agreement

Kerry gone. Check, Now we have Hillary, Obama, Gore, and Edwards left. Gore's gonna run. Gut feeling. Everybody else then steps aside.

[PeaceProgProsp]

81. "I was for it before I was against it" -- what he meant was

true and an excellent point. But how he expressed it openend him to endless crticism.

Had a Republican made the same kind of statement, I would hope that Democrats would be merciless in exploiting it.

[Parche]

82. kerry

If his non disrespectful statement was that bad (Which it was not)
Then no one should be allowed to run in 2008 on either side........

[Bodineian]

83. Remember the Howlers Are 30%

What we have here...is an attempt to rekindle the Kerry anti-troop lies that got so much mileage for the Neo-Thugs in 04. The Rovian method of turning a democrats grain of sand into a rethugs mountain of negativity.

Apparently another weasel like Rovian attempt to rally rethug voters who may have chosen to sit this election out. The hope being to add to the 30% of nutcase thug base.

Too little too late rovian shitheels!!!!!

[Apollo11]

84. Kerry made a rookie's mistake ...

1. It was a stupid idea for a joke in the first place - for many reasons.

2. The way he (mis-)told it was wide open to misintepretation.

3. As a former Presidential candidate, Kerry has to be extra-careful.

4. In the last week of the campaign, we don't need this.

[fujiyama]

85. People criticizing you

of "drinking RW Kool aid" just don't get it. It's not drinking kool aid to know how the enemy behaves and react accordingly. Anyone that doesn't know the media and repukes will pounce on a joke perceived as making fun of troops are politically inept or clueless.

In all honestly, it took me a minute to figure out what the fuss was about when I first heard Kerry's comment (because I could tell he was making fun of Bush), but it became immediately clear that it was obvious that his joke could be interpreted as insulting troops.

Incredibly poorly worded and timed even worse. This is a news story even though it SHOULDN'T be. We have over a hundred Americans JUST THIS MONTH dead due to Bush. That's where all of our focus should be. Kerry is pretty damn smart, but his political instincts are questionable.