What Am I Not Getting re: Kerry?

[MannyGoldstein]

From what I can tell, his statement was less-than-brilliant. He had the opportunity to apologize/explain that it was a flip joke gone astray, but he did not.

I'm generally somewhat favorable towards Kerry - he's been behaving almost like an actual Democrat lately - but this doesn't seem to be he finest hour.

(Before you flame me - yes, Smirk and the Rethugs are a thousand times worse, and deserve everything Kerry gave 'em today - I'm just trying to see if there's something I'm misunderstanding).

[DURHAM D]

1. Oh God - another new thread. Can't you just go to one of

the one million existing threads?

[BattyDem]

2. He DID say it was a botched joke

"My statement yesterday -- and the White House knows this full well -- was a botched joke about the president and the president's people, not about the troops."

http://www.johnkerry.com/news/releases/release.html?id=34

That press release is pretty much what he said at the press conference.

[BeyondGeography]

3. Get your fire-retardant apparel on

just know that there are a few here who agree with you. He did say it was a botched joke, but that's not enough. Kerry needs to apologize in plain English for any misunderstanding and move on.

[WildEyedLiberal]

7. No. He doesn't.

Dems need to STOP apologizing because the right-wing deliberately spins their words into something that was not intended. Durbin should not have apologized for saying that Gitmo was similar to a Nazi concentration camp. But he did because the Repukes did the SAME THING to him - twisted his remarks, created a media shitstorm, and shamed him into apologizing. We need to STOP playing into their hands by letting them bully us, and it's never going to happen until Democrats like Kerry call their bullshit what it is.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. I Agree re: Durbin

He should not have apologized - he was spot-on.

[BeyondGeography]

12. If he's smart, he'll do as I say

Nobody apologizes anymore, anyway. He can "regret that his remarks were misinterpreted," reaffirm his respect and admiration for the troops, veteran that he is, and say that he looks forward to a discussion of the real issues in this campaign (take your pick, starting with Bush's sad war). That's called disarming the opposition and it's nothing to be ashamed of.

I'm working on a draft for John right now, I just need an e-mail address.

[BattyDem]

8. He has to apologize because the GOP intentionally distorted his intent?

I'm not defending Kerry - I've never really been a fan of his - but the biggest problem with the Dems is they ALWAYS back down and apologize when they did nothing wrong! The GOP loves to take their words and twist them around to make it sound like they did something wrong, when in fact, they didn't.

Do you honestly think the GOP is going to move on if Kerry apologizes for a misunderstanding? They'll simply twist his apology, neglect to mention the part about the misunderstanding, and tell the world that "If Kerry didn't insult the troops, why did he feel the need to apologize?"

Let's face it ... because of the GOP controlled media, we're screwed either way.

[WildEyedLiberal]

15. No offense but... "not defending Kerry?"

See, this attitude really bugs me. "I'm not defending Kerry because I've never been a fan of his."

Who cares? This is about a Dem being swiftboated by the GOP and the Repuke media. ALL Dems should be defending him. This is why Republicans win and we don't - they don't let personal likes or dislikes or preferences for some future primary affect their message.

Your comment was otherwise good, but that first statement just irked me because it's exactly the kind of attitude that keeps us fractured and lets the GOP dismantle individual Dems.

[BattyDem]

26. You're right ... but this is the reason I said that -

On this board, Kerry tends to be a lightning rod.

If you say something negative, people jump on you for being "against Kerry, no matter what he does."

If you say something positive, people jump on you for being "a Kerry lover who refuses to admit when the man screws up."

What I was trying to say was that because I'm not a fan, I'm not automatically inclined to jump to his defense. In other words, I have no bias in favor of him. But you're right ... "defend" was a bad word to use - he did absolutely nothing that needs to be defended and the rest of my post certainly expresses that.

I'm actually glad you pointed that out to me because I'll be far more careful in the future when using that word. Thanks. :-)

[karynnj]

27. WEL,

Read BattyDem's post - it is great - at the risk of being presumptuos, he/she wrote a very insightful post - the "I'm not defending Kerry" - I think simply means that I am not saying the just because I want to defend Kerry, followed by saying I am not a supporter - is intended to give the comments MORE weight.

apologies to you and Battydem if the interpretation problem is mine. (I have used nearly the same words to defend Hillary, Dean, Edwards etc) when a charge was unfair.

[WildEyedLiberal]

4. If he'd apologized, you'd probably have called him spineless.

So which is it? He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. If he doesn't respond to swiftboating, he's "spineless" and "weak." If he DOES, then he gets criticized for NOT apologizing. Bullshit - the RW started this media furor. Bush and McCain took his comments out of context in a desperate and pathetic attempt to lie and say Kerry "maligns the troops." Unfortunately for them, Kerry hit back. Hard. But this never would have BEEN in the media until Bush/Rove/McCain started squealing about it and the media eagerly piled on. Given that, what should Kerry have done? Ignored it, and been reamed by DU for "not fighting back" - which is usually what DU likes to bitch about?

[MannyGoldstein]

9. He Should Have Apologized and Attacked

You can apologize AND fight back.

[leesa]

18. Apologize for what? That someone else misunderstood him? Do you

apologize when someone misunderstands what you said and then attacks you for it?

[magnolia]

20. It was deliberately...

...misunderstood. Everyone knows John Kerry was in Viet Nam, he was well educated, worked hard in school. Why would he say that poor grades get you to Iraq, it doesn't even make sense. I don't think the audience would have laughed so hard if they thought the joke was directed at the troops.

[enough already]

22. Apologize for the comments, that's what

If you throw a snowball at Jerk X and unintentionally hit an old lady crossing the street, you apologize to the old lady and then go back to throwing snowballs at Jerk X. Kerry could have easily apologized for butchering the line, reaffirmed his unquestioned support for the troops, AND then attacked Bush some more. Politics 101, situation totally diffused. As it is, this "story" is going to linger like a bad fart until election day and it doesn't help.

[karynnj]

28. I think that was close to what he did

both yesterday and this morning on Imus. I also think that saying you regret saying a line wrong - is kind of obvious - as he said on Imus botching a line makes you look stupid. The story will last as long as the Republicans want it to.

The best way to end it - is to shift it to Iraq each and every time.

Kerry should try to fix it after the election. - Note the Republicans tried the same thing on Clinton when she used the word "plantation". This is their game. The Clintons have excellent support among blacks, as do most Democrats - so that one really didn't resonate.

[JDPriestly]

5. He says he was talking about Bush.

I would like to see the text of his entire speech. That is the only way I will be able to tell what he was talking about. The quote that I have heard could be interpreted to refer to Bush or to the troops.

I don't know who is in Iraq, but I do remember clearly that, during the Vietnam war, the better students got deferments. The poor students got drafted.

I suppose officers and the National Guard soldiers are educated, but it is probably true that many of the noncom enlisted men did not do well in school. I don't see that the noncom enlisted men are necessarily stuck in Iraq. Many of them never go to Iraq, but are stationed elsewhere.

It is also true that Bush has never studied or worked hard. And -- he is the one who is stuck in Iraq.

[MannyGoldstein]

13. Finally. Thank You.

A good point.

[sandnsea]

16. You could take his damned word for it

What would be the horror in that?

[Erika]

6. Why are you beating up on Kerry rather than the GOP?

Remember 2006 is only a week away. If you so choose to beat up on Kerry, you have plenty more time to do so AFTER the election.

[MannyGoldstein]

11. I'm just seeing if there's something here that I'm missing.

If anyone could have apologized from a position of strength, it's Kerry - he served and was wounded and decorated.

[sandnsea]

17. Wow

Did you spend 2004 in Antarctica?

[LSK]

14. did you see his press conference today?

:shrug:

[Mass]

19. He did just that. He explained it was a botched joke and then attacked the WH.

Of course, the media choose not to cover the first part, for most of them.

http://www.johnkerry.com/news/releases/release.html?id=34

My statement yesterday -- and the White House knows this full well -- was a botched joke about the president and the president's people, not about the troops.

And then. later in the Q/A,

I have fought a lifetime on behalf of veterans. We have the finest young men and women serving us in the United States military that we've ever had, and I'm proud of that.

[Evergreen Emerald]

21. like many politicians, he uses the same stump speech again and again

That joke was told numerous times at various stump speechs. The neo-cons know it, because they have heard it again and again. They are lying about this...they know the joke. They are using a misspeak to continue to lie and cheat the American people.

And the media is helping them--because they are not media, but propaganda. Rather than show the numerous other speeches in which Kerry successfully told the joke, to show the fact that the neo-cons are using this, they allow the administration to pretend they have never heard it before. They are collaborating with the neo-cons in their lie.

[yellowcanine]

23. The statement is out of context. He was talking about Bush the previous sentence.

Chris Matthews has the context in his discussion with Dick Armey. Even Dick Armey says that Kerry clearly was talking about Bush. In other words, Kerry is saying that Bush is stuck in Iraq because he doesn't know history. Who can deny that?

[ItNerd4life]

24. What I think Kerry did wrong.

Some DUers agree some don't. When Kerry said it was a botched joke, he should of clarified it. He should have said, 'what I meant to say was that if you don't get an education you end up putting our troops in Iraq' or whatever his exact speech was.

This would have taken care of the problem. But instead of explaing how it was a botched joke, he then when into counter-attack mode. To me, that was his mistake.

Republicans attack. Smart people use that weakness against them instead of attacking back.

Most arguments are never won by brow-beating.

[Mass]

25. He did. They published the joke. The media published it.

It was about Bush getting us stuck in Iraq. Tony Snowe himself said it was aiming at Bush (this morning).

[ieoeja]

29. Kerry's response should be:

"You know I was talking about Bush getting us into Iraq. The audience knows I was talking about Bush gettings us into Iraq. And everyone knows you're just pretending to be too stupid to understand what I said.

"Now, if you think you're going to win elections by pretending to be a fucking moron all I can do is wish you good luck. Cause you're even a bigger idiot than you're pretending to be."