OK, honest question for Kerry-backers: Why should I support Kerry???

[SmileyBoy]

I'm a Dean/Clark/Kucinich supporter. Anyone of those three canidates would be perfect for me. But I have many reservations about John Kerry. I know about his Skull and Bones past. I know about his kow-towing towards the Repubes in terms of the No Child Left behind act, the Iraq War, etc. He's only half a Democrat in my opinion so far. I don't feel I can trust him. I think he'd be better than *, but honestly, how MUCH better???

So convince me on why I should support him for the nomination. This is an honest question, I don't want any flak for this.

[mikehiggins]

1. How bad must the other candidates be

if you are considering supporting the man you are describing in your post.

Go with your gut. If you have a candidate you prefer over Kerry in the primary of course you should vote for him. This is a matter of opinion, after all.

In my opinion, Wes Clark has the best credentials when it comes to taking on George Bush head-to-head. You may disagree.

I, like you, don't feel I can trust Kerry. I'll still vote for him if he is the nominee but I see no reason not to vote for Clark in the primary, even if he loses.

I suggest you approach this the same way.

[shindig]

3. John Kerry, his supporters,

and the sheep who are now on the latest bandwagon, the John Kerry bandwagon, are banking on Bush self destructing. Otherwise how can John Kerry win? As Howard Dean so aptly put it today on CNN, when George Bush debates John Kerry, and asks Kerry why do u think you can better execute my policies, THE SAME POLICIES YOU HAVE SUPPORTED BY YOUR VOTES IN CONGRESS, what will John Kerry say?

Wes Clark can win the the upcoming general election against Bush, because he is a fighter. Look at him. He is uphill and onward, despite the media, the republicans, AND the democratic party all against him. The fact that he is still there, despite these odds, shows he is ready for the fight against Bush.

If you want to be "safe," and hope Bush self-destructs, get on the Kerry freight train. But the Kerry freight train is being fueled by the same mentality that led us to the war in Iraq. Rah rah, shish koom ba! Just follow along, everything will be alright!

If you want a man, qualified in every respect to be the President of the United States, who will take the fight to Bush and have him removed him from office, should Bush, with the help of the corporate media, fail to self-destruct on his own, I urge you to look at who General Clark is; look at www. clark04.com. There is no free and easy ride. We should not bank on Bush self-destructing. It is almost four years and that still hasn't happened yet.

[WiseMen]

2. Kerry is the best Candidate for Our Time

John Forbes Kerry should be President. And we can make it so.

America is at war. It is at war around the world and it is at war within the homeland. The Republican administration has the nation in the grip of fear seems able and willing to use this fear to its own ends. It is now clear that unless the Democratic party can make its bid for power on the basis of a enormous strength of new leadership and a compelling vision for the future and a nervous electorate will not vote for change.

Among a field of highly qualified candidates, only Senator John Kerry can be viewed as fully prepared to provide this new leadership when he assumes the Presidency. Kerry is implicitly Presidential. That has been the conclusion of most democrats. By Presidential I mean to refer to that quality of presence and that unambiguous grasp of matters of foreign and domestic policy that gives credibility as Head of State and Commander-In-Chief.


On the campaign trail, John Kerry has shown he can stand and deliver a passionate call to arms and thoughtful answers to the questions of our time. But, even more important, Kerry brings to the battle for the White House a personal history, and a record in matters of national security; social policy and governmental reform that allow him to speak with a clear voice without hypocrisy as he rallies the nation to a better way.

Personal Character

Graduating from Yale University, John Forbes Kerry, a wealthy, multilingual world citizen, had many options before him. Yet he answered his nation’s call to service and enlisted to fight and lead men in a dubious war in a distant land. He did this because he believed it was wrong to let someone, less fortunate, serve, fight and die in his place. For bravery, and sacrifice in a war he came to oppose, his nation gave him the Silver Star, Bronze Star and 3 Purple Hearts.

John Kerry followed his tour of military duty with a life of service, working to end the War in which he fought and leading a thank-less multi-decade effort to expose corruption in U.S. foreign policy, championing the environment, and pinch-hitting in the Senate for almost every cause that affected the lives of the poor and disenfranchised.

Kerry now asks the people he served to let him take the fight to George W. Bush, a man who ducked service to country when he was “young and irresponsible,” and now disserves his country in the office of the President.

Iraq War and National Security

In 1991 John Kerry opposed a war in the Persian Gulf because he saw U.S. militarization of the region as a potential long-term disaster. Kerry thought that the Gulf conflict was not just avoidable, but a war that should be avoided. In October, 2002 John Kerry voted for George Bush’s Iraq War Resolution (IWR) because he believed it was the only way to force resolution of the Iraq tragedy by restarting the U.N. inspection process. He believed the President of the United States when he said that war would be “a last resort”. At the time of the vote, he gave a substantial, thoughtful speech on the Senate floor, Kerry said he would strongly opposed any unilateral movement to war and that he did not believe that Saddam’s threat was yet imminent. He kept is word and led opposition during the U.N. debates against Bush’s “rush to war,” his reckless and incompetent foreign policy.

John Kerry says is was a mistake to trust the President on the IWR. He stumbled. Yet his decorated military service, his two decades of participation in international diplomacy as a leader in the Senate and as a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, allows him challenge George Bush’s conduct of war and foreign policy in a post 9/11 world and prepares him to quickly re-direct U.S. policy upon being sworn into office.

Domestic Policy

John Kerry gets the best scores from independent groups for his environmental record and for issues affecting the working poor. For thirty years Kerry has fought for labor rights, women’s rights and campaign finance reform. Kerry’s record is solid on education and social security. Despite significant political cost, Kerry has opposed capital punishment, the NRA and all the fat-cat special interest lobby groups camped out in Washington.

Few senators have maintained a record so widely regarded as above reproach – free of special-interest lobby deals or pork-barrel legislation. John Kerry’s legendary indifference to special interest initiatives has been widely slammed as arrogance, aloofness and even neglect of his “constituents.”

Government Reform

Kerry’s record of pubic service as a prosecutor, in State Government and as a senator has been long been open to scrutiny. John Kerry is the one with a passion for cleaning house. He has fought to expose covert government actions from South-East Asian and Central America, for public disclosure of campaign financing and for the freedom of Information in the nation’s capital.

Kerry has himself been a principal target of secret investigations carried out by the Nixon Administration in the 70's when Kerry led the anti-war effort.
In the senate Kerry helped shape and push the McCain-Feingold campaign finance reform, supported the ban on soft money and fought with Paul Wellstone for clean-government legislation

Much more that campaign rhetoric, it is the totality of John Kerry’s life of service and his record of making a stand on controversial issues that shows him to be ready to be a President for our time. The crises we face signal we must seek the best candidate for President not the best campaign. A fair review will tell: that person is Senator John Forbes Kerry. But, it will not happen, unless we chose to make it so.

[bigtree]

4. Kerry kow-towed? He stood with Kennedy on the NCLBA

Of course Kennedy counts as more than one Democrat in my view.

S&B smoke was the initial creation of :

Antony C. Sutton, editor of an excellent monthly newsletter, Phoenix Letter, stated in the October, 1996 edition:
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/newstart/bohemian-grove /

“Up to a few months ago, our knowledge of Bohemian Grove, the exclusive elitist hideaway by supposedly adult wheeler dealers, a.k.a. Washington statesman and prominent people (all male).

We dismissed the behavior as immature, even pitiful, by emotionally disturbed juveniles and not worth attention. This is where Kissinger, Ford, Nixon, Bechtel, Bush, Cheney, Hoover and their friends (2600 members) hang out and “relax.” And if they want to behave as little boys that is their privilege, it is private property.

Recent information may radically change this perception of Bohemian Grove. Not merely drunkenness, unbounded use of alcohol and drugs with vague homosexual tones (confirmed by our sources) but reported activities much more serious – kidnapping, rape, paedophilia, sodomy, ritual murder. Investigation is blocked under the 1947 National Security Act.(!) and like the Omaha child abuse case, includes illegal detention of children.

For decades, there have been vague rumors of weird goings on in Bohemian Grove in more remote parts of its 2200 acres. Reliable reports claim Druidic like rituals - druids in red hooded robes marching in procession and chanting to the Great Owl (Moloch) - a funeral pyre with “corpses”. (Scores of men work in the Bohemian Grove as servants so this party is fairly well established.)
___________________________________________________________________

CHARLOTTE ISERBYT served as Senior Policy Advisor in the Department of Education, during the first Reagan Administration, where she
blew the whistle on a major technology initiative which would control curriculums in America’s classrooms.

Iserbyt is a former school board director in Camden, Maine and was co-founder and research analyst of Guardians of Education (Organization taking a no-nonsense, Judeo Christian approach to the education of Maine's young people.)

Iserbyt is a speaker and writer, best known for her 1985 booklet Back to Basics Reform or OBE: Skinnerian International Curriculum and her 1989 pamphlet Soviets in the Classroom: America’s Latest Education Fad which covered the details of the U.S.-Soviet and Carnegie-Soviet Education Agreements

She is a freelance writer and has had articles published in Human Events, and The Washington Times.
_____________________________________________________________________

ANTON CHAITKIN is a founding member of the political movement associated with Lyndon LaRouche.

The OMEGA File
POPULATION CONTROL, NAZIS, AND THE U.N.! -- by Anton Chaitkin
ROCKFELLER AND MASS MURDER

"The ROCKEFELLER Foundation is the PRIME SPONSOR of public relations for the UNITED NATION'S drastic depopulation program, which the world is invited to accept at the UN's scheduled September conference in Cairo, Egypt. Evidence in the possession of a growing number of researchers in America, England, and Germany demonstrates that the Foundation and its CORPORATE, MEDICAL, and POLITICAL associates organized the racial MASS MURDER program of NAZI GERMANY.
__________________________________________________________________

CARL OGLESBY - During Thanksgiving weekend 1965, toward the end of one of the first major rallies against the Vietnam War, a student activist named Carl Oglesby addressed the Washington crowd. He did not simply criticize U.S. support of South Vietnam's military regime, but hailed its communist foes for mounting "as honest a revolution as you can find anywhere in history."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2003-03-04-freedman_x.... __________________________________________________________________

Toby Rogers wrote about how the Bush Family Wealth is Linked to the Jewish Holocaust.
_____________________________________________________________________

Webster Tarpley learned at the knee of ; has been a disciple and employee of Lyndon LaRouche for at least twenty five years.

The authors of this smear huddle at: http://www.fleshingoutskullandbones.com /


These are not the sources that I would rely on in making my decisions on Democratic candidates. I would honestly suggest: http://www.johnkerry.com for any further reference on the life and record of John Kerry.

[Faygo Kid]

5. John Kerry, 1971: VVAW. John Kerry, 2003: No more 2002 elections.

I am old enough to remember John Kerry's courage and credibility coming back from The War and saying it was wrong. And I am young enough to remember the 2002 elections, and how Max Cleland got smoked, and how Paul Wellstone died (an accident, but a lucky one for the GOP). John Kerry is not perfect, but he would make a great president compared to GWB (his MTP interview convinced me he is but a tool). John Kerry has been there for me since the '60s, and on the right side. Yeah, he's rich, but so was FDR. At least, he's bright. Very bright. I think he would be a great president, given his guts in 1971. I support John Kerry, unequivocally, and I thank Howard Dean, unequivocally, for putting spine back in the Dems. Let's go!

[MurikanDemocrat]

6. If you feel one of the other candidates is a perfect fit for you then

you should stick with your choice for the primary. I trust you have examined their records and have made an informed choice based on your values and experiences and I respect your decision whether it's the same as mine or not.

I'm not going to give you any flak about it. Go with your heart in the primary. That's what primaries are for.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

7. Sorry, these arguments don't convince me either!

"He's better than Bush". Hell, I'd vote for Genghis Kahn before I'd vote for Bush but that doesn't mean I'd be happy about it.

I am a registered Green and a Dean supporter who sees the handwriting on the wall. If Gephart or Lieberman got the nod I might be voting for Ralph but they are out. I eat sleep and breathe politics and am probably as informed as anyone can be and still have a job and for the life of me, I cannot understand this sudden surge in the Kerry camp. I could easily vote for Clark or Edwards as they have put forth positions I believe in and can support but I have absolutely no idea what Kerry stands for. All I know about him is that he seems to have the same hairstylist as Grey Davis, the personality of Lieberman, voted the WRONG way on the war and the "patriot act and he is a member of S&B.

AT his web site I find only platitudes, not actual positions. He's for education. Big deal, Bush is for freedom but that doesn't mean anything. Somebody please explain his sudden popularity and give me a reason to get excited about this guy cause I can't find one.

And please, no flames. If you haven't got anything intelligent to say take it to freak republic where they value faulty intelligence.

[poskonig]

8. Kerry is more liberal than two of those guys.

Kerry took Reagan to task over Iran-Contra while unnamed others were voting for him into office. Kerry is outstanding on the environment, voting to raise CAFE standards, filibustering ANWR, voting no for more forest roads, and so forth. Kerry is not cuddly with the NRA, supports increases in the minimum wage, supports progressive taxation, and opposes the death penalty.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

10. This is the kind of info I am looking for

Thank you and more please.

[blm]

11. Kerry helped stop three wars

Vietnam. Iran-Iraq (by exposing the illegal arms trading that was fueling the war - it ended shortly after the arms dealing ended), and the illegal wars in Central America which he exposed Reagan and Bush's illegal covert actions and CIA drugrunning.

He has the most liberal rating from most of the top progressive organizations, even higher than Dennis Kucinich, and is hands down the best environmentalist ever to run for president.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

13. Now you're getting me excited.

I also have heard from the dark side that he votes in lockstep with Kennedy. This is a BIG plus in my book.

[blm]

14. Hold on to your hat, then....

Kerry's lifetime liberal rating is HIGHER than Kennedy's. ;)

He and Wellstone were apart by a mere 3%.

[eileen_d]

9. There's no reason for you to support him in the primaries

if you have these reservations about Kerry, and have other candidates that you prefer.

When the general election comes around, if Kerry is the nominee against Bush... well, "compare and contrast."

[OffWithTheirHeads]

12. Being in California,

what I do in the primaries will be irrelevant but It sure looks to me like Kerry will be the anointed one so, I would still like to know why he is suddenly so popular. Did he say something recently that I missed? He must have done something special to come from so far behind and be this close to coronation. The guy is winning primaries by landslides. How come, all of a sudden?

[blm]

15. The media was trying to keep him silenced because their corporate masters

HATE Kerry. Kerry represents everything Bush is not and never could be. They didn't WANT the American public to learn about Kerry. Fortunately enough did know and heard his voice.

There are people in this country who have been looking forward to voting for Kerry for over 30 years now.

[eileen_d]

16. It depends on what you mean by "coming from behind"

As far as I'm concerned, he started out ahead, because he won the first couple of contests. Before that it was all speculation.

[politick]

27. Kerry was the best last man standing

in Iowa. Gephardt and Dean went at it so hard, they BOTH turned voters off. Kerry was also fond of bashing the then-front runner, but his attacks were not as vitriolic as Gephardt's (who droppped out the next day -- THANKS, by the way!). Kerry began to look attractive mostly, I think, because of his war record. He is also a safe alternative with a great resume. People in Iowa do not like bickering, and since Kerry did less of it, and Edwards presented himself as above the fray, the turned out one and two.

NH happened the next week, while Kerry, very well-known in that state, was riding a wave of momentum. He was now the electable one, he was given a second chance, he seemed more stable than Dean and NH voted for him, too. Now that's two states, whose roles in determining nominees are incredibly inflated by the constant media attention, who voted for the SAME GUY. Not the seemingly unstoppable Dean. What must be wrong with Dean, the nation wondered? Why would all those people dump him so fast? Then it became: Kerry is the only electable one, voters everywhere said so, the endorsements started rolling in, and it now looks like you have no choice but to vote for the guy.
He's a good candidate, granted. but the best? I don't think so.

(edited for grammar)

[JohnKleeb]

17. What are your key issues other than that man

If youre an environmentalist like me, you will like his strong environmental policy. He also has a nice health care plan. Go to project vote smart and look at his record, you may find hes less of a bush lackey than public belief. Also he was one of the few senators to vote against DOMA.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

19. Actually, some of you have provided exactly what I need

And I thank you for that.

I know that I am so far left that someone who agrees with me 100% has no chance in the general election but I would like to know that the person I support to run this country realizes that profit should not always come before the planet or the good of the general populace.

I consider myself more of a socialist than a capitalist but I have great respect for the profit motive if it is used ethically. If you can provide a good or service that the people want or need and you make a profit, good for you! That's what makes America great. However, if you piss in the stream that everyone else drinks from to make your profit (while you continue to drink from upstream) I have a real problem with that. I have seen way too much of the latter from those who purport to lead us and am concerned that the next president not be one of them.

[JohnKleeb]

20. I am far left too man

Look at my DK avatar :). Personally Ive taken political tests to figure out my candiates, and Senator Kerry generally ranks high. Hes a good environmentalist, has a nice health care plan, and cares about our veterans. Kerry is the most liberal and IMO the most electable as well of the big 4 candiates we hear about. My ideal candiate is Kucinich, and I support him as an equal with Senator Kerry. You are quite welcome, also if you are a big environmentalist and fan of the Kyoto treaty, Senator Kerry was involved with that. Great guy, I think he really can carry a nice coalition.

[blm]

34. Us far lefties are pretty much in sync.

Anyone who reads their longtime records usually comes down to Kerry and Kucinich.

[Pushed To The Left]

18. Here are some reasons I support him

Medical marijuana. He and Kucinich got really high marks from a group called "Granite Staters for Medical Marijuana", while Dean and Edwards got very low marks. (Bush got an F!)

He was one of a very small group to vote against the Defense of Marriage Act.

It has been said that his voting record is very similar to Ted Kennedy's, and he has been endorsed by Ted Kennedy. That would definitely put him on the "liberal" side. However, he appears to have the ability to grab Republican and independent votes better than the other candidates. A liberal who can grap Republican votes! Even my mother, who is a pretty consistent Republican, says she will vote for Kerry over Bush should he get the nomination.

He was against "flag-burning" legislation, another stupid but popular right-wing idea.

Right-wing radio HATES him!! That just makes me like him even more!!

[JohnKleeb]

21. yea that too

He votes with Ted like 95% of the time.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

23. See, these are things I didn't know

I don't smoke dope but arresting people for it is stupid!

I don't burn the flag but if they ever outlaw my right to do so, I will burn one every day!

I hate right wing radio. Is the enemy of my enemy my friend?

Again, thank you for taking the time to respond to me with real answers and not flame bullshit. I will now take a much harder look at the man and hopefully, will get excited enough to send him some money and work on his (and the country's) behalf.

[jpgpenn]

22. Washington Insider! Washington Insider ! Washington Insider!

That is the only reason Kerry is where he is today!

[OffWithTheirHeads]

24. there is always one

n/t

[jpgpenn]

25. and he sure is it!

[OffWithTheirHeads]

26. I am listening to him now on CSPAN

Thank you all for the time you have taken to help me become more informed. I feel that I can now vote for the man with a clear conscience. Is he perfect? no. Does he agree with me 100%? no. If I thought I could vote for perfection, Buddha would be my candidate. I don't need to have the guy walk on water, I just need him to actually give a shit about the planet and it's inhabitants.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

28. If you actually have something to add to this discussion

of a factual basis, please elaborate.

I know he is a washington insider.
I know he comes from privilage.
I know he is a member of S&B.

These things bother me but I need more than just this to sway me from supporting him. If you have information you think is relevent, please share it. If not, please refer to end of my post #7

[jpgpenn]

29. I'm not here to convence you of anything

arriving at a candidate you are comfortable with is a personal choice. It's YOUR job to gather the endless amount of information, agree or disagree with it, process it and come up with something you are comfortable with.

The information I have given you is of a "FACTUAL BASIS". If you find that information not to be the "FACTUAL" information you want then this is something for you to live with!

[OffWithTheirHeads]

30. let me get this straight

"washington insider" is supposed to help me decide?

Once again, please refer to the end of post #7.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

31. To paraphrase you

you are not here to convince me of anything.

So far, you have been quite successful.
So, why are you here?

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

33. Well, thank you very much for your input

I can only conclude that you are not old enough to vote yet but I thank you very much for your enlightening repartee.