This entire Carville story may be based on hearsay; nonetheless the issue is MOOT.

[Writer]

:rant:

Because Rahm Emmanuel, Chuck Schumer, and Howard Dean DID NOT win the election for the Democrats. George W. Bush did. The rest is window dressing. I think someone not associated with the Democratic Party is playing on natural divisiveness within the party by circulating this "story". All of the Democrats entering office in heavily red areas are a mixed bag of stances - stances, no doubt, that represent those districts and not a set party ideology. Further, some myths have been debunked: Diebold is not out to steal elections for the GOP - they're just out to make money; Rove is not a genius and shouldn't be feared; don't get me started about the so-called "corporate" media - I have two degrees in media studies and have a contrary opinion about that issue that is bound to piss everyone off; and finally, yes, Democrats had a hard time winning while the GOP waved the bloody shirt of 9/11 BUT NO LONGER.

So now we're fighting over the table scraps. How sad. The Carville rumor appears to have circulated from one "brilliant, omniscient" blogger to another (fuck all of them, btw) but even if it's set in fact - who fucking cares? I think it's quite evident after Tuesday that our votes DO INDEED COUNT. Vote tampering didn't lose 2000 for us - but a withholding of a full recounting of Florida ballots by the Bush assholes via the court system did. Our votes COUNT. And they will COUNT in the primaries. If you want a liberal/centrist/conservative Democrat to run on the party's ticket then vote for that person. Lift the veil of conspiracy from your eyes and focus on the power you actually have! But otherwise, why don't you have a goddamned beer and enjoy the week? We can fight over this when a few of these folks actually start declaring their candidacies. :beer:

:rant:

[evlbstrd]

1. I am having a beer.

But do you not understand that the local parties benefited greatly from Dean's 50 State Strategy and the money he raised?

[OzarkDem]

3. It's had a huge impact

and a long-lasting one at that. Trying to reverse the trend will definitely rile rank and file Dems.

[groovedaddy]

6. I'm on my second beer

and I think Dean has done a great job. Anyone who thinks that gotv efforts didn't help in this cycle is not being realistic. Yes, the driving force behind the Dem win was Bush's policies and the corruption. BUT in these close races, organization and gotv matter hugely.

[BeachBuckeye]

2. What are you talking about?

What rumor?

[The Count]

4. Lots of people to congratulate. Dean. Murtha. Lamont. Sheehan. KO.

All those who spent time on election fraud (Dean again for puttng RNC on notice!). All volunteers who made calls, canvassed etc.

[movonne]

5. Sometimes I wonder if this election wasn't set up by the powers to

be(whomever they are)...It was time to put other idea's in place as long as they don't get too liberal...that might hurt the Corporations who really rule us..

[groovedaddy]

7. like they say, follow the money

there was big shift in this cycle in terms of corporate/special interest money - the Dems got alot more this time around. Maybe they could see the handwriting on the wall, but that money helped get Dems elected. Also, notice the shift in the corporate media - starting to actually report on issues that seemed to be off the table before, i.e. election fraud and problems with EVMs.

[madfloridian]

8. Did you read this? Carville also called the NYT on his own. Why?

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/595

That is two times he went public with TNR and the NYT. Someone is in denial and it is not me.

[eridani]

9. Our votes only count if there are enough of us--

--to overwhelm the Repulblican strategy of vote suppression and cheating where possible. Lots of places are low risk because of the integrity of local officials, but a couple of races in Florida did indeed get stolen. Diebold just makes it possible to steal--they don't do the dirty deeds themselves, just as thieves never hit every house on a block.