Wait, Murtha opposes abortion rights?

[Comicstripper]

from Wikipedia:
"Murtha is a Democrat with a relatively populist economic outlook, and is generally much more socially conservative than most other House Democrats. He opposes abortion, consistently receiving a 0% rating from NARAL; however, he supports stem-cell research."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_murtha

I've just read this elsewhere, too. I did not know this. Is this OK? I realize he doesn't have any real say over national policy, but...do we want him to lead our party in the House of Representatives?? I'm not advocating Steny Hoyer, either, I'm just saying...

[saracat]

1. THAT does not please me. And to have two such people in leadership

bothers me.I only hope neither DO anything about their views.

[Comicstripper]

2. It seems weird, right?

You'd think the leader of the party ought to reflect the party, particularly on one of our defining issues.

[question everything]

55. Not anymore, unfortunately

Many of the new Democrats - Brad Ellison and Casey come to mind - are against women's right to privacy.

[obxhead]

3. you can be against something and still not legislate against it... nt

[Comicstripper]

4. True, but...

his role is very much a public one. He's a spokesmen. He may not be designing the product, but he is selling it...

[jobycom]

6. Except that he has legislated against it. That's what his voting record shows. nt

[obxhead]

7. ???? I did not know... got a link? I would be very interested!

[jobycom]

11. For starters

Voted YES on restricting interstate transport of minors to get abortions. (Apr 2005)
Voted YES on making it a crime to harm a fetus during another crime. (Feb 2004)
Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortion except to save mother’s life. (Oct 2003)
Voted YES on forbidding human cloning for reproduction & medical research. (Feb 2003)
Voted YES on funding for health providers who don't provide abortion info. (Sep 2002)
Voted YES on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad. (May 2001)
Voted YES on federal crime to harm fetus while committing other crimes. (Apr 2001)
Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortions. (Apr 2000)
Voted YES on barring transporting minors to get an abortion. (Jun 1999)
Rated 0% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record. (Dec 2003)
http://www.ontheissues.org/PA/John_Murtha_Abortion.htm

NARAL doesn't give ratings based on beliefs, but based on voting records. He also receives a 0 from Planned Parenthood, and often gets high marks from National Right To Life. From Vote-Smart:

2006 Representative Murtha supported the interests of the Planned Parenthood 0 percent in 2006.

2005-2006 Representative Murtha supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 70 percent in 2005-2006.

2005 Representative Murtha supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 0 percent in 2005.

2004 Representative Murtha supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 0 percent in 2004.

2003-2004 Representative Murtha supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 91 percent in 2003-2004.

2003-2004 Representative Murtha supported the interests of the Democrats for Life of America 100 percent in 2003-2004.

2003 Representative Murtha supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 0 percent in 2003.

2001-2002 Representative Murtha supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 100 percent in 2001-2002.

2001 Representative Murtha supported the interests of the Planned Parenthood 9 percent in 2001.

2001 Representative Murtha supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 0 percent in 2001.

2000 Representative Murtha supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 0 percent in 2000.

1999-2000 Representative Murtha supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 95 percent in 1999-2000.

1999 Representative Murtha supported the interests of the Planned Parenthood 9 percent in 1999.

1995-2004 On the votes that the National Family Planning & Reproductive Health Assocation considered to be the most important in 1995-2004, Representative Murtha voted their preferred position 23 percent of the time.

[Le Taz Hot]

31. Oh, this is SO not good.

Not that it's up to any of us but there's no way I could support someone with an anti-choice voting record like that. It's pretty Republican.

[question everything]

56. Thank you for the detailed information

This, of course, brings to the front what many of us just whispered during the campaign:

How much are we willing to "set aside" our core Democratic beliefs to win Congress?

So we kept quiet about Casey in PA, and we kept quiet about many of the new House members who are anti-choice... but for how long?

And does opposition to the Iraq war - which is Murtha's main asset - trumps everything else?

[zreosumgame]

62. nice list, but...

were these discrete votes all by themselves or packages of bills and amendmets that were voted on?

[jobycom]

70. Some were major legislation, not sure about all of them.

Murtha's anti-choice, there's no debate about that. He's got a long history of 0 or almost 0 ratings from choice groups and high marks from anti-choice groups. I don't know if he campaigns on it, but it isn't secret.

[Kagemusha]

5. You go to Congress with the Democratic Party you have

Not the one you wish existed after a decade of grassroots reform.

I know, I know, it's grating, but he's 72. Focus on the man or woman who will replace him for a fresh face on abortion issues.

The blunt fact is, he's being considered because he's close to the military elements that are dissatisfied with the conduct of the war in Iraq. It is no small thing... (Oh and he's backed Pelosi personally in the recent past and he's her man.)

[question everything]

80. Also, he gave credibility to withdrawal from Iraq

with his military background.

[Erika]

8. He will do as Pelosi says

Be sure of it.

[blm]

41. He's not an activist on his personal view, just like Kucinich and Bonior were never

activists on it, and now Casey in the senate. Personal views are one thing, it's when they actively push it is the time to push back.

[Lurking Dem]

42. So his NARAL rating means what?

His votes don't matter? Voting is not activism? I'm confused.

[blm]

44. Just like Bonior and Kucinich before him, it's pursuing the legislation that makes

you an activist on it - they didn't. They may have voted differently if choice was actually at risk and in a leadership position, that's what I would expect.

[rinsd]

49. Ummmmm

Voted YES on allowing human embryonic stem cell research. (May 2005)
Voted YES on restricting interstate transport of minors to get abortions. (Apr 2005)
Voted YES on making it a crime to harm a fetus during another crime. (Feb 2004)
Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortion except to save mother’s life. (Oct 2003)
Voted YES on forbidding human cloning for reproduction & medical research. (Feb 2003)
Voted YES on funding for health providers who don't provide abortion info. (Sep 2002)
Voted YES on banning Family Planning funding in US aid abroad. (May 2001)
Voted YES on federal crime to harm fetus while committing other crimes. (Apr 2001)
Voted YES on banning partial-birth abortions. (Apr 2000)
Voted YES on barring transporting minors to get an abortion. (Jun 1999)

Excet for stem cell research, his record is abysmal.

[ninkasi]

9. In that case

Murtha should not be compelled to have an abortion. That is his choice...:sarcasm: :sarcasm: His choice, however, should not be forced onto the women who actually go through the pregnancy, childbirth, and child raising. There is one thing that has always bothered me about seemingly rational arguments concerning abortion. Opponents will say that a woman can have the baby, and if she doesn't feel that she is ready to be a mother, she can give her child up for adoption.

Many married women who already have children choose to terminate their pregnancies. Imagine a woman in some areas of the country, such as the Bible Belt, deciding that she will carry the baby to term, then give the child up for adoption. How will that woman be viewed by the people she works with, goes to church with, and is neighbors with? I am inclined to doubt that opinion will be gentle, and laud her courage. Instead, she would be vilified, and made to seem less than a "good" woman.

I can not cite links for this idea. It comes from having lived 63 years in Texas, which is an extremely conservative state. I can guarantee that in any place I've ever worked, or even knew from women who worked, that woman would be whispered about, and ostracized. I can pretty much tell you how people I worked with for 25 years would have reacted to a married woman choosing to give her baby up for adoption. To make what must be an agonizing decision, the very least a woman should count on is the ability to choose the course of her life for the next 18-21 years.

[Iris]

52. to add to your idea - the group with the 2nd highest unplanned pregnancies is women in their 40's

As I'm childless, I'd welcome the prospect of a child late in life, but I can certainly sympathize with a woman who has spent her 20s and 30s raising children being dismayed at the propect of giving up yet another 18 year of her life to raise an "oops" baby.

[MADem]

10. I don't mean to be rude, but it is a simple matter to find out how your reps vote on the issues

Here are the stats on Steny Hoyer, http://www.ontheissues.org/House/Steny_Hoyer.htm who will likely get the Majority Leader job, and Jack Murtha, http://www.ontheissues.org/PA/John_Murtha.htm who is challenging Steny (who is actually the rightful heir to the position, based on House protocol):


Steny Hoyer is a Populist-Leaning Liberal. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ John Murtha is a Moderate Populist.

Steny, overall, is left of Murtha.

To compare and contrast, here's Nancy Pelosi:


Nancy Pelosi is a Hard-Core Liberal.
http://www.ontheissues.org/CA/Nancy_Pelosi.htm

And here's Senator Harry Reid:


Harry Reid is a Liberal Populist
http://senate.ontheissues.org/Senate/Harry_Reid.htm

I find the tossing of the "DINO" gripe at some of these people a bit irresponsible, frankly.

[Mythsaje]

12. You wouldn't happen to have a link for that test

would you? I'd like to see where I come in these days. I think I've shifted slightly leftward, but I'm not sure how far.

[MADem]

13. Here are two tests, a shortie and a long one

http://www.quizilla.com/users/hazelwudi/quizzes/Where%20do%20you%20fall%20on%20the%20liberal%20-%20conservative%20political%20spectrum%3F%20%20(United%20States)


http://politicalcompass.org/

[Mythsaje]

17. Thanks! n/t

[Mythsaje]

18. I used to be very close to the Dalai Lama

but now I'm even farther into the left libertarian area than I used to be.

I was right. I have slid leftward. And more anti-authoritarian than ever. Not that THAT is any surprise. LOL

Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.13


Thanks again

[MADem]

23. Yep, I'm still in Dalai territory, myself. NT

[Hippo_Tron]

15. Many of the people here, myself included, place a greater emphasis on the war than other issues

Frankly I don't like soldiers coming back in body bags and I don't even want the remote possibility that I will be drafted and become one of them.

Thus Hoyer may be more liberal technically but Murtha is more liberal on the issue that far outweighs the others in my view.

That said, I don't want either of these people as Majority Leader but I'll take Murtha over Hoyer because at least Murtha will do what Pelosi tells him.

[MADem]

19. Well, here's Hoyer on that issue most recently--

Voted NO on declaring Iraq part of War on Terror with no exit date. (Jun 2006)

So it's hard to call him a warmonger based on an old authorization vote that conned a lot of legislators.

[Hippo_Tron]

20. Didn't say he's a warmonger

And Murtha voted for the resolution too. But Murtha has been an extremely vocal critic of this war and Hoyer hasn't.

That being said, I don't like either of these guys in the Majority Leader spot. I was more explaining DU's rationale for wanting Murtha over Hoyer. While I sympathize with that rationale my real reason for wanting Murtha over Hoyer is that Murtha won't backstab Pelosi and try to become Speaker. Hoyer will do so the minute he sees an opportunity. With Murtha as majority leader, neither of these two will become Speaker and that is ultimately what I would like to avoid.

[MADem]

22. I dunno. Nancy being the first woman Speaker, for Steny to try to backstab her

might not go over too well. Especially since people, even those who initially were not all that women-friendly vis a vis this particular leadership slot, are starting to warm to the idea and are looking forward to Madame Speaker in the big chair next to Snarling Dick at the SOTU.

It's hard to know who will get the nod. You read these quotes and it's anyone's guess. http://hotlineblog.nationaljournal.com/archives/2006/11/hotline_after_d_117.html

I am hearing Hoyer has the edge, but who knows--the MA delegation is certainly split on the matter. Barney Frank is sticking with Hoyer, Marty Meehan is going with Murtha...several others are playing coy. http://news.bostonherald.com/localPolitics/view.bg?articleid=167363 The vote takes place on Thursday, in secret, so we'll never know who SAID they were gonna vote one way and went the other way, and there's no other candidates on the horizon.

I frankly think the more interesting vote will happen on Friday, when Trent Lott tries to become minority whip--not quite Leader, but on the way back up that ladder.

The Baltimore Sun is suggesting this morning that Pelosi is pushing hard for Murtha, so you may just get your wish: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/nationworld/bal-te.congress15nov15,0,7566892.story?coll=bal-nationworld-headlines

Pelosi and her lieutenants are pushing Democrats to back Murtha. Her endorsement of Hoyer's rival has some Democrats - freshmen and senior members eager to secure plum committee assignments - feeling intense pressure to commit themselves to Murtha or risk being blacklisted.

One target of Pelosi's campaign is Rep.-elect Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, a Hoyer supporter, who was summoned to Pelosi's office to explain why she wasn't backing Murtha, Hearst Newspapers reported last night. At the session, Pelosi asked Gillibrand for her committee preferences.

Supporters of both men were working the House floor, trying to win over members who have yet to declare their intentions or to turn around those who have made commitments.

Democrats described a bruising battle for lawmakers' loyalties, with members weighing the likely impact of their choice on their standing in the new majority.

"The stakes are very high," said Rep. Albert R. Wynn of Prince George's County. "People understand that their position in this race could impact their position going forward. There will be retribution." Wynn, like the rest of the Democrats in the Maryland delegation, is backing Hoyer. ..."These things are all very personal," said former Rep. Martin Frost of Texas, a veteran of such contests. "It's based on relationships that members have that are established over the years with friends and things that they've done for people or that members may perceive they'll do for them in the future. It's very tricky." ...

But I do think Barney is correct: "I regret that it's happening," said Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts, a Hoyer supporter. But the race will end soon enough to prevent lasting damage, he said. ...

[Hippo_Tron]

24. I'm not saying that Hoyer will try to become Speaker immediately

But lets say that we lose seats in 2008. Hoyer may very well say that it's a testament to Pelosi's ineffective leadership and try to run against her. He's been a Pelosi rival ever since he made a short bid for Minority Leader in 2002. Again, I'd rather see both Hoyer and Murtha sitting on the backbenches (or in Murtha's case I wouldn't mind him as a committee chair of Armed Services, Veterans Affairs, or Foreign Relations) and not in the leadership.

[MADem]

25. Yeah, but that would actually reflect just as poorly on him!

It's the job of the Leader to herd the cats, after all, and keep the agenda rolling. If he doesn't do that, he could see the whip challenging HIM in no time at all! Pelosi has to be the Speaker for ALL of the House, not just the Democrats, which is why she needs a Leader as well. She may like Murtha better, but she's worked with Hoyer as whip, so it won't be that different.

Hoyer was intent on the minority leader job when he was up against it with Pelosi--it was more than a short bid, it was pretty rough, and Murtha was one of those who helped her in that election. But Hoyer did fade back, and was agreeable and loyal, to the whip slot without griping and he's been VERY effective, not only in his official duties, but also in the fundraising department for a lot of these new kids in the freshman class. He doled out over a million bucks, and that buys a little loyalty.

[Iris]

53. Many women don't like the idea of being forced to breed cogs for the oil war machine

So it all goes hand-in-hand, really.

[saracat]

68. Well, I think that thousands of women dying from botched

abortions or having their lives ruined with unwanted pregnancies is every bit as important as the soldiers coming home in body bags.And I don't want to see even the remote possibility of my seeing innocent children's lives ruined as they become victims of rape and incest, forced to bear babies when still children. It is outrageous that the soldiers fate be considered "more" important. That smacks of sexism and selfishness to the max.And yes I know theire are female soldires dying as well but the military is still predominately male and the decision to enter it is still a choice which is something these women might be denied.

[wicket]

48. Great links

Thanks!

[MADem]

58. Anytime. I find them helpful when I see that broad brush come out!!!

So and so is a DINO!!!! This one is a rightwing shill!! That one hates this or that!

Half the time, when you look at the totality of the record, it's never all that clear. Politics is the art of compromise, and you see compromise at work and play in the records of most representatives.

[wicket]

61. Let me just say....

AMEN!!!!

:yourock:

[LittleClarkie]

14. Yep, he's a conservative Dem that several at DU fell in love with

for his Iraq stance.

[malikstein]

16. Be careful where you are going.

There is a movement afoot within the Democratic Party to smear Murtha out of the majority leadership and put in Steny Hoyer. That movement originates in the pro-war DLC faction. They have already made a move against Murtha on a corruption charge related to a brother on K St. DLC shill Al Franken was pushing that smear on Air America yesterday (Tuesday).

Now, you can start picking away at his stand on abortion or some other issue, and keep tearing him down. The result will be Hoyer, an avowed pro-war piece of shit in the leadership and an occupation that will not end.

Is that what you want?

Politicians are politicians and will always be politicians. Unlike us, they have feet of clay. You have to decide what kind of clay feet you want. It's up to you.

[MADem]

21. No there isn't. You don't have the sequence straight at all. Hoyer was the HEIR to that job.

The WHIP is the one with first dibs. Back in June, quite out of the blue, Murtha put his beak in and said he would like to run, too. He then quite recently wrote to his old friend Pelosi and asked for her endorsement. She wrote back and said "In response to your letter, I endorse you" more or less. She did not urge or ask anyone ELSE to vote for him. And that's where it sits.

Hoyer has been in line for that job for as long as he has been whip. So there isn't any "switching out" going on. If anything, Murtha seeks to cut in line. Murtha and Pelosi are close, but she's not lobbying for him. She's keeping her mouth shut.

The vote is SECRET. We will never know who voted in what way. The Black Caucus, the Hispanic Caucus and the Blue Dogs all are said to support Hoyer. We will see when the votes are cast.

I don't understand your assertion that Hoyer is an "avowed pro war piece of shit" -- he made the same bad mistake many others did on the authorization and he bought the WMD bullshit until he and everyone else who was conned wised up ....but how do you explain his vote as follows?

Voted NO on declaring Iraq part of War on Terror with no exit date. (Jun 2006)

Surely a pro-war type would vote yes on that one.


In fact it might be helpful to compare Murtha and Hoyer, in terms of their actual votes.

Murtha: Voted NO on declaring Iraq part of War on Terror with no exit date. (Jun 2006)
Voted NO on approving removal of Saddam & valiant service of US troops. (Mar 2004)
Voted YES on authorizing military force in Iraq. (Oct 2002)
Voted NO on disallowing the invasion of Kosovo. (May 1999)

and now, Hoyer:

Voted NO on declaring Iraq part of War on Terror with no exit date. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on approving removal of Saddam & valiant service of US troops. (Mar 2004)
Voted YES on authorizing military force in Iraq. (Oct 2002)
Voted NO on disallowing the invasion of Kosovo. (May 1999)


With the exception of the Saddam vote, they've got the same record. They BOTH voted against putting Iraq in the "War on Terra" column this past June.

[Sturmrabe]

30. Well maybe "tradition" like that is outdated!

Just putting someone in a seat because of tradition or seniority seems rather stupid to me.. and part and parcel of an antiquated and obsolete system.

Until people's effectiveness and qualifications mean more than status we will never really go forward.

[paulk]

50. having served in the House leadership

is a qualification, I would think.... especially when running against someone who hasn't.

And Hoyer was considered an effective whip by most.

sometimes systems are used because they produce the best results, no matter how antiquated.

[MADem]

57. It's helpful to have done that work before...there's no learning curve.

Look, like it or not, those positions depend on a lot of things, and ideological position is LAST on the list. Seniority, ability to fund raise, influence, committee experience, and even a ready-for-telly PERSONALITY, looks, speaking tone and persuasive ability rank ahead of positions on the issues.

The system has worked well for quite some time. Believe me, everyone--not just the leadership--gets a shot at weighing in on the agenda. You can do it through your caucuses (Black, Hispanic, Blue Dog, etc.) or on your own in discussions with leadership. The more senior you are, the more your words have weight. The more MONEY you raise, the more you are heard. Just because you occupy a leadership "job" doesn't give you sole power to determine the agenda. If Murtha herds the cats, he may have to herd them in a direction he doesn't want to go, occasionally. Same with Hoyer. It's a job that gives you a little extra money, a few extra staffers, a bit of prestige amongst your peers, and it can be used as a stepping stone to amassing greater power. That's all it is. It's not a "decider" job by any stretch--it's an ENFORCEMENT job, once the caucus has done the deciding.

[malikstein]

32. It's not a procedural question.

Between the two candidate Hoyer and Murtha, who is more likely to heed the voters load cry of "Enough!" concerning Iraq.

May I submit in evidence Robert Sheer's commentary on the subject?

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/20061114_robert_scheer_11_15/

[MADem]

54. Well, actually, it is. It's procedural, and it is tribal. And it is quid pro quo.

Hoyer was a HEAVY recruiter of the new blood in the House, and he ponied up a lot of dough for their campaigns as well, over a million bucks. You learn the lessons of loyalty quite early as a freshman. If you think the freshman are gonna forget their mentor so easily, that's questionable. What isn't known is how many oldtimers will stick with him now that Nancy has really put her beak in this.

Of COURSE {b]Murtha’s No Lefty, But He’s Right--we hold some truths to be self-evident. But that fact ALONE won't get him the job. He needs to arm-twist and pull votes to him. Nancy has abandoned her heretofore low-key position and is starting to arm-twist as well, threatening freshmen with lousy committee assignments, but Steny has very close relations with everyone on the Dem side, both from his recruiting, campaigning and donating efforts, AND his close work with all the incumbents as whip.

See, this vote is NOT about us, or FOR us. It's how the Dems in the House organize THEMSELVES. And political ideology, deny it or not, has little to do with it. Power, seniority, prestige, money, connections and influence are far more important. If ideology were the litmus test, Pelosi wouldn't be Speaker-in-Waiting. She's left of the majority of Democrats. It has to do with, once a decision is taken, ensuring that all the reps sing from the same choirbook when anyone asks them anything, while the whip twists arms when it's voting time. These are essentially field-grade positions where strategy, once decided upon, is executed. Certainly the leaders have a role in crafting the strategy, but so too do ANY reps who chair key committees, or who raise MASSES of money for campaign coffers.

There's more than one way to earn influence in the legislature.

[PVnRT]

27. DLC shill Franken?

Wow, that's a new one.

[malikstein]

29. Well, no,

it's actually and old and well-known one. Franken shills for the DLC.

[jonnyblitz]

39. he said he was a DLC type at a book signing of his I went to

in Harvard SQ in Cambridge, MA and he jokingly ducked down like he was expecting people to throw things.

[Le Taz Hot]

33. I've no doubt that there is that effort.

This is, after all, politics and this is a powerful position and there are powerful people pushing on both sides. But you can't spin that anti-choice legislative history. Bad. Very bad.

[PVnRT]

26. Amazing everyone here is just figuring this out now

I knew about his Neanderthal social views before the whole Jean Schmidt affair.

See, this is what happens when people fall for the cult of personality. Kiss abortion rights, gay rights and stem cells goodbye so long as he's in charge of the agenda.

[Zodiak]

36. Yup, he is a conservative Democrat

So the fight is between a blue dog Democrat (Murtha) and a DLC Democrat (Hoyer).

I would rather have Murtha, of course, because I think that his stance on the war puts him head and shoulders over a DLCer. But we cannot expect Murtha to be a Feingold....not going to happen.

But I wish there were a third choice...a middle of the road Dem.

I totally agree with you about the cult of personality, btw, but that is how things are in the US. Issues are boring to most.

[paulk]

51. is Steny Hoyer a "DLC Democrat"

I've seen this posted several times in the last few days.

I've been searching the web all morning trying to find out if he's a member, and so far have found nothing.

Do you have information you could share that shows that Steny Hoyer is a DLC member?

-------------------

[Zodiak]

63. I must admit, I am only repeating the meme

I do not track House members because there are so many of them, but I sure would like to see evidence one way or another rather than be a meme-repeater.

I know Murtha is blue-dog from his position on issues (social conservative, economic populist) but I do not REALLY know Hoyer save that he is a serious party insider (not like Murtha isn't).

Someone in the know care to weigh in on this meme I just blindly repeated?

[Zodiak]

67. Well ,he is promoted by the DLC for majority leader

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=86&subid=84&contentid=254108

Sirota, and others also refer to his K street project as the apple of the DLC's eye, whateer that means. Also, in a 2001 article by Nichols, Hoyer is referred to as the pro-business DLC candidate for the whip position.

That is just the first few links. The links are weak, but they are definitely there.

He receives funding for trips from the DLC

HOYER, STENY HAMILTON - Democratic Party
March 25, 2004 - March 28, 2004 (4 days)
Jacksonville, FL
Purpose - Participate in panel at Spring Retreat
Total Cost - $1,956.34

HOYER, STENY HAMILTON - Democratic Party
April 29, 2005 - May 1, 2005 (3 days)
New Orleans, LA
Purpose - Participate in panel at spring retreat
Total Cost - $2,194.51

http://americanradioworks.publicradio.org/features/congtravel/sponsor_report.php?sponsor=30721

This guy is one of those loosely-associated with the DLC-types, but his hand is in the cookie jar. He may not be a member, but it certainly looks like he is the DLC's best friend.

Thanks for asking the question...I wanted to know the answer, as well.

[paulk]

69. yeah, I found that stuff, too

It seems that he may be associated with them, at least in some areas, but he's not a member.

I'd been wondering about him for some time, mostly because of some very negative things said about him in the blogosphere. OTOH, I was surprised to find that he had such a high ADA rating (95% lifetime).

[MADem]

75. Barney FRANK supports Hoyer, as do many others. The conservative in this contest is Murtha, not

Hoyer. And the one with his hand in the cookie jar, frankly, is MURTHA. Haven't you seen his background? I am not talking about the ABSCAM business, either. Check out his brother, the lobbying firm, the "pay to play" quid pro quo deals. Some inside baseball commentary here:

But members, aides and outside consultants who are closely watching the contest said Murtha has an uphill battle because Hoyer has worked for a decade to rebuild the majority, raising millions of dollars for his colleagues and recruiting Democrats to run.

And Pelosi may be irked that Murtha publicly picked this fight, according to some..."I suspect that she feels like most other members, that we'd rather not have this divisive contest," Clyburn said of the majority leader's race. "We've spent a lot of the last two years getting the caucus together. We're more cohesive than we've been in a long time, and most people appreciate the climate we're currently operating in."

Murtha is seen by many in the House as an old-school political insider whose power is derived from his position as ranking member of the Appropriations subcommittee on defense and from the money he can direct to members' districts. A former Marine who has always been pro-military, the 16-term congressman was embraced by his liberal colleagues last year when he called for the immediate withdrawal of U.S. troops from Iraq. But Murtha's stand on the war has not automatically gained him support from the left...Hoyer, a moderate, actively solicited support from a number of liberals who are not comfortable with Murtha's conservative positions opposing abortion and gun control. Rep. Maxine Waters (Calif.), chairman of the Out of Iraq Caucus, announced her support for Hoyer, although she praised Murtha's plan for troop withdrawal. Other liberals supporting Hoyer include Reps. Barney Frank (Mass.), John Lewis (Ga.) and Jerrold Nadler (N.Y.).

"Steny has done a tireless job to get back the House for us for more than a decade," said Rep. Henry A. Waxman (Calif.), a strong Pelosi ally who is in line to become chairman of the Government Reform Committee if the Democrats win. "Given the leadership he has shown and his ability to unite Democrats, he's the logical choice."

Other Hoyer supporters question why Murtha has chosen to pick a fight now when the Democrats are the most unified they have been in 50 years and are on the verge of taking control of the House....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/30/AR2006103000979_pf.html

Hoyer has made it clear he intends to capitalize on campaign efforts that took him to 80 districts over the last two years. By early this morning, Hoyer had released a statement reiterating his candidacy for the post and stressing his role in winning the majority. He added that he is "very confident" of his support within the Democratic Caucus.

Leadership sources said Democratic Reps. Kendrick Meek of Florida and Tim Ryan of Ohio -- both, like Murtha, Pelosi allies -- will circulate a letter Wednesday supporting Murtha's bid. New Democrats, meanwhile, are said to be talking about their strengthened role and crediting the strong support that Hoyer gave moderate candidates this cycle....
http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=35431&dcn=todaysnews


Hoyer entered the Democratic leadership race with a substantial lead by most counts, but he has been scrambling to hold onto supporters since Pelosi's surprise intervention on Sunday. He appeared to carry a lead into Thursday's secret ballot despite Pelosi's opposition.

"I think we're in very good shape. I expect to win," Hoyer said. "I expect that we will bring the party together and become unified and move on from this."....Murtha said the opposite was true: "We're going to win. We got the votes," he said Wednesday afternoon on MSNBC's "Hardball."

Allies such as Rep. George Miller, D-Calif. -- also a top confidant of Pelosi -- have been working this week to peel away votes from Hoyer. Pelosi also has intervened more directly, making the case for Murtha in one-on-one meetings with Democratic freshmen -- sessions in which the incoming lawmakers ask for all-important committee assignments....Murtha has a record of not always being a leadership loyalist, frequently supplying votes to GOP leaders who were struggling to pass bills. The none-too-subtle trade-off: Murtha and his allies would do better when home-state projects were doled out by the Republicans.

He has been criticized by ethics watchdogs such as Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, who have said he exemplifies a "pay-to-play" culture of Washington. The group says Murtha has steered defense projects to clients of KSA Consulting, a lobbying firm that until recently employed his brother Kit. Clients of the firm are generous with campaign contributions.

Hoyer claims considerable support from some liberals made uncomfortable by Murtha's opposition to abortion, gun control and changes to House ethics rules. He also is a leadership contact for many moderate "Blue Dog" Democrats.....He has been aggressive in lining up supporters, most of whom are sticking with him. ...


http://wfrv.com/topstories/topstories_story_319225540.html

The suspense will be over tomorrow, and this dustup will be a distant memory in a week or two. The GOP fightmongers who love dissent and discord want to make it WAY more than it is, IMO.

[MADem]

60. The only thing is, he WON'T be "in charge of the agenda" even if he gets the gig

and that is not certain by any stretch.

The agenda will be formulated by the caucuses. They'll all hash it out. Murtha may be in the position of herding cats for votes HE doesn't go for, if he gets the job, and that's by no means certain. It happens.

Why does Murtha want this job? You get extra pay, extra staff, extra prestige, extra visibility, and eventually, a shot at the Speaker job....sometimes. And the Speaker is three back from the President in the political power structure of the US.

It's a matter of no small prestige, it's an ego boost, and it can help you get rich if you want to roll that way, too....note how Newt isn't starving.

[hippiechick]

65. Give JacksSmirkingRevenge a cookie !!!

BEST.POST.OF.THE.DAY !!!

:applause: :applause:

[wisteria]

28. He is a small vote against AR, he is a MAJOR jote against the war

in Iraq. I am willing to trade off for now. Besides, we have enough DLC'rs controling our party.

[Le Taz Hot]

34. "You're" willing to trade off MY

rights to a safe, legal, unfettered and affordable abortion? I don't think so. This guy's anti-choice history is appaling.

[LynneSin]

35. a-yup - I posted that enough times

I'd see folks praise-be about John Murtha and then turn around and criticize Bob Casey, both politicians are from Pennsylvania and considered "Casey Democrats" - pro-life democrats in the mold of Bob Casey Sr (son of the senator-elect).

But I consider it this way:

Abortion laws were used to divide the country over a controversial issue. The democrats have so much other criticial issues to deal with on their plates that choice will probably be put on the bottom of the list.

And remind you, Harry Reid is also anti-choice but has opposed most radical judicial nominations

[Stinky The Clown]

37. This is news?

If anyone's been paying attention, this was widely known when he was a quiet back bencher and then in wide common knowledge when he came out against the war, now quite some time ago.

[Richardo]

38. 'opposing abortion' does not necessarily mean 'opposing abortion rights'

Many people have that opinion.

[Lurking Dem]

40. But he has voted thusly.

[Richardo]

45. Yeah, I missed that post.

Disappointing.

[slackmaster]

43. I have some other shocking news for you, Comicstripper

President Kennedy has been SHOT!

[donsu]

46. if Murtha is anti abortion then I'm anti Murtha and pissed at Pelosi

nt

[Nordmadr]

47. Have got to say, I think I prefer Steny. N/T

[zreosumgame]

59. You take wikipedia at it's word?

Sorry, they may have videos cached there and those are mostly OK, but recall that those words are not vetted in any way. After all I also 'oppose abortion', but I support a womans right to choose that that is what she needs. But IMHO every abotion is a failure on OUR part. Either we failed to prevent a 10-15 year old girl from being raped or we gave her no support or the family tossed her out or the boy-friend is a flake and fails as a man.

[hippiechick]

66. check his voting record, then ...

:shrug: it's all out there ...

[bluedogyellowdog]

77. Very true

I'm not going to jump into anti pro- or anti-Murtha debate here ... but just give a rousing "hear hear" to your comment on Wikipedia. Why do people take that site seriously as a credible source? I've seen some politicians' articles go back and forth, sometimes saying the person is "pro life" and sometimes saying "pro choice". The articles reflect the opinion of the last person to edit the article. The site people should be checking for an accurate picture of somebody's views is Project Vote Smart.

[upi402]

78. Hey! "thus always to tyrants"

Nice sig line!

(off topic, sorry 'bout that)

[hippiechick]

64. Yes indeed, fans ...

be careful who you ask for, you just might get him ...

[Arugula Latte]

71. I just love it when old men tell us what we can do with our bodies.

:grr:

[Sapphocrat]

72. He's not exactly a friend...

...to the gay community, either. And while a lot of people treat LGBT equality as a non-issue, the fact of the matter is that LGBT equality and women's choice are directly tied together -- so if you care about one, you'd better care about the other.

1999-2000 Representative Murtha supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 60 percent in 1999-2000.

2001 Representative Murtha supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 33 percent in 2001.

2003-2004 Representative Murtha supported the interests of the Human Rights Campaign 17 percent in 2003-2004.

The current HRC scorecard for all members of Congress is here:

http://www.hrc.org/Template.cfm?Section=Congress_and_Scorecard&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=34269

Fortunately, he's crept back up to a 63% rating -- but that doesn't make him an advocate yet.

(Note to potential flamers: Don't shoot the messenger.)

[Lurking Dem]

73. That's an interesting point

that I hadn't ever really considered. (I've been in wtf mode since the gay marriage ammendment votes as it is.) Thanks.

>>the fact of the matter is that LGBT equality and women's choice are directly tied together<<

[Bjorn Against]

74. I really wish we could get a third choice for majority leader

I am not a big fan of either Murtha or Hoyer. Yes, I am proud of Murtha for his opposition to the war but I am not so proud of him for some of his other stances. And the last thing we need is a majority leader tainted by scandal, as it looks like Murtha is.

I guess I will probably have to settle for one of the two, but there are certainly many other congress members who I think would be better suited for the position.

[JamesJoyce]

76. Can't please all the purists all the time!

Or some of the time, for that matter!

[DCal]

79. It's not about Murtha for Pelosi

It's about doing whatever it takes to stop Hoyer. She hasn't trusted Hoyer since they ran against each other for whip.

So, Pelosi couldn't care less what Murtha's position is on abortion or any other issue. Murtha is in a position to stop Hoyer, so she supports Murtha.

New members are being told they will not get their desired committee assignments unless they support Murtha.

This is really not the way to be starting out. Pelosi should have just sent out her endorsement letter and let the members vote without threats and intimidation.

[k_jerome]

81. jeezum crow, it is simple, Murtha is a bigoted old man. nt.