Face The Nation: Rangel to intro. legis. for a draft.......

[MichiganVote]

[Donnachaidh]

1. I see chickenhawks

lots of feathers getting kerfuffled.

[MichiganVote]

2. I see women hot under the collar. They didn't vote Dem's in for this.

[MADem]

3. It won't pass. Not enough votes/Bush will veto. All Rangel is doing is saying

that decisions have consequences. You can't bellow "Stay the course!" on the one hand while failing to provide a pipeline of cannon fodder servicemembers on the other.

We need to get people talking about this whole mess we are in. It's way too easy to focus on TomKat or OJ, or the latest missing blonde, but this issue MUST be brought to the fore. And War Hero Rangel is just the guy to do it. He's been out in front on this matter for some time.

[MichiganVote]

4. Agree. The US population is hynotized by its retail mentality and

I think that this is essentially a threat intended to wake people up. Frankly, I'm unconvinced even a draft would somehow shake people up enough to revolt.

Amazing isn't it....everything tht Goerge Bush has ever touched has turned to shit.

[MADem]

6. Without this discussion, it's only a matter of time before they start digging REAL deep

And pulling back retired baaaastids such as myself.

I'd as soon not go back to the sandbox, thanks anyway! I did my turn in the barrel!

[MichiganVote]

7. :) Actually I think its the "retired bastards" like yourself they should

have listened to in the first place. But then to these retail minded reptiles in Washington, war is just a cakewalk don't you know.

But every war since WWII there are those who caress the substance of our US class system by advocating the draft....

[MADem]

9. I have to say that I am very proud of myself in that I was never one of those

who felt this "cakewalk" was a good idea. I thought it was an AWFUL idea in fact and made no bones about expressing my dismay. I honestly thought that we'd be far better boxing Saddam in and carrot-and-sticking the hell out of him, rather than going for regime change in any way, shape or form, because we didn't have any reliable players to step up to the plate (Chalabi the fraudster was "the" darling of the Hill, and we see what a beaut he was!).

There were quite a few people like me, who thought the premise sucked, that we shouldn't do it, that we should constrain, cage and bend Saddam (the Qaddafi model--it worked on old Muamar, didn't it!) and perhaps an equal number who thought "Well, it'll be OK...it's not great, this idea, but it will work out." Then there was a final group of warmongering idiots who never bothered to take note of Vietnam's lessons--they just wanted to try out their tactics and 'strategeries' and were ready to roll. Nitwits!

I'm not one to ALWAYS want to say "I told them so" but damn it, I did.

[MichiganVote]

10. MADem, you and me both. I thought at the time * was trying to "sell"

the idea of a threat in the face of reality. I remember thinking to myself, "Ok, maybe I don't live or work in Washington (thank God) and am not a part of the CIA, but this smells." I recall telling other people I thought it smelled too...but they always went back to 9/11, not trusting their own gut to tell them the truth.

I remember the lessons of VietNam all too well and besides, the cast of characters, Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Perle, Wolfowicz,Powell....it was all just so damn obvious these guys would start something, somewhere. I don't feel I have enough reliable information about 9/11 (and I've read a great deal) to buy into a conspiracy theory on that. But I will say that when I watched the video of * in that classroom being told by Card we were under attack I thought to myself, "He knew, and now he wants to guage how far it will go". There was no surprise on his face that I could see.

I don't apologize for telling people, "I told you so", altho' I don't do it often. I don't care if people feel bad. They, we, should all feel bad. It IS bad to enter another country, blow it up to smithereens, threaten, kill or murder a population and leave our sons and daughter to die on the bullshit basis this bunch endorsed. It sickens me.

To think that now we have done away with Habeus and the multitude of other eavesdropping endeavors is an indication of just how far they will go to protect their lies, in place of people. People, not lies, are what are important.

A dictator is a cheap bastard and we should have treated Saddam as such. This silly and wholly untenenable PNAC proposition has set back the US, Iraq, the entire middle east and the very energy policies we need in place for the next 25-30 years. I doubt I'll live long enough to see a solution that does not involve more military action.

Guess the white boys thought they were going to be able to overpower this region as they had the American Indian and the slaves in Africa. Guess again.

[LynneSin]

12. Consider who Rangel represents and what the bill entails

Rangel represents mostly the north end of Manhatten which includes Harlem and a district that is filled with minorities and lower income folks. He knows that previous drafts had too many exceptions for those with money & connections to find safe havens away from war (IE Bush and the National Guard during Vietnam).

Rangel knows the bill will never past and as another poster mentioned it's more of a protest bill that says "You want this war and yet you will do nothing to fight it". If, god forbid that bill passes, there would be no exceptions to the draft except probably medical. Rangel knows that drafts means that people in his district and other districts of similiar make-up would suffer the draft the worst with the constituents more likely serving over those in more affluent districts.

It will never pass and even Rangel knows it. But it's more of getting that debate on the floor and expose the Republicans for what they are

[OzarkDem]

15. Agree, its disaster with women voters

We're not the opposition party anymore, we're the leading party, so its time to change the focus and the rhetoric.

[LynneSin]

14. Rangel served in Korea

http://www.house.gov/rangel/bio.shtml

And at the first Anniversary of the start of the war our local peace group here in Delaware had a memorial for those who had died at the Dover Air Force base here in Delaware. That's the base where all the dead from the war first return to back in the states.

Only one politician showed up to honor those who had died in the war and it wasn't any of our guys from Delaware. It was Charles Rangel.

The man knows what the price of war is and how it seems that it's the poor that end up being the pawns in this thing.

[wilt the stilt]

5. It's Charley's way

to end the war. If we institute a draft, "game over". We are out of the war in 3 weeks

[MichiganVote]

8. Out of the war and out of the war zone are two diff. things

[Igel]

11. He's done this before.

It gets handily defeated. PR, mostly: a chance to make speeches and get the issue in the newspaper and on the news.

[MH1]

13. "Draft", or National Service?

There's a big difference. The way I read the last bill Rangel introduced on this, it was for National Service, but was played in the media (and most blogs) as the "draft". I could be mistaken though.

FWIW, I support universal national service, and am opposed to "selective" service (the draft). I don't think National Service has a snowball's chance in hell of passing Congress in this country though, and I would rank it right there with outlawing the death penalty as something I'd like to see in a fantasy world, but not going to affect my decision much about a lawmaker. (Positive if they support my position, not a major factor if they don't, sigh.)

[MichiganVote]

16. He said draft. Topic was not about national service.